SU_P_17

[i] Good evening, [name]. Welcome, and thank you very much for agreeing to do this interview. I will start with the subject of the object you brought with you, and it might mean something to you. Can you tell us what this object is, and what it means to you, and why you are carrying it? Good evening, and thank you very much for agreeing to do this interview.
[r] This object was given to me by my father on my birthday about two years ago. He brought it from France, and gave it to me in Syria. Of course, I did not use it, as it was another object. I only used it here in France. The other object was very old, and I decided to use it.
[i] Did you feel that you could only use it because it was old, or because you are in France now, and it might mean something to you?
[r]First of all, I felt that it was important because it was old. Secondly, my father gave it to me, so I liked to use it.
[i] When your father gave you this object from France, did you ever think that you would continue your life in France?
[r] No, never. I never thought that I would live in France. There were plans to come to France to study, or something like that. They told me that I should study in a French-speaking school. Then I studied French for two years. But I never thought that I would come to France. I could have come to visit my sister, because she has been living here for about nine years. But I never thought that I would come to live in France. I even thought that I would study in Germany.
[i] What was the reason?
[r] There were several reasons. The first reason was that I knew several of my friends who studied in Germany. In Berlin, there are many beautiful cinemas. These were the reasons. Berlin is a beautiful city. I always used to go to Berlin. But I never thought that I would live in France. I never thought that I would live outside of Syria. I never thought that I would go to Syria. I never thought that I would go to Syria.
[i] Tell me about the first day you arrived in Paris. When you left the airport, what was your first impression of Paris?
[r] I arrived in Paris in the middle of the night. It was around 11 a.m. I entered the airport. The airport was strange to me. There was no security like other airports. The airport was different from Istanbul’s airport. When I arrived, someone was checking my passport. He checked my passport to see if it was fake. He was respectful. He took my passport seriously. He was a policeman. He was respectful. When I arrived, I saw that the airport was big. It looked like a mall. When I arrived, I met my sister. I hadn’t see her for 7 years. When we arrived, we took an Uber. We went home. It was the first time I saw France. It was the first time I saw Europe. It was the first time I saw Europe. It was the first time I saw the Schengen countries. It was the first time I saw France. When I first arrived in Paris, the situation was different. The buildings on the way to the airport were far from each other. The image we had of Paris was that it was an old city. At first, it was strange. Honestly, there was more darkness than I expected. When we arrived home, it was around 3 p.m. We ate and drank. It was the first time I entered France. I had to choose the way. They explained everything to me. They explained everything to me. They told me about the buildings on the way. They told me about the factory. They told me about the buildings on the right.
[i] Did you notice anything special when they explained it to you? Did you notice certain feelings when they explained it to you?
[r] No. When I first arrived in Paris, I didn’t plan to come to France. It’s true that I was taking the visa. I didn’t plan to stay for 6 months. I was moving from one place to another. Everything was similar to me. I moved a lot from one country to another. For me, it was a strange transition. When I first arrived, I didn’t see much of Paris. I came from the airport to my house. I didn’t see much of Paris. I didn’t see much of Paris. I didn’t see much of Paris until the next day or the third day. I don’t remember much. In my opinion, the roads were familiar to me. It was similar to Damascus. There were stones in certain places. But I didn’t see much of Paris until the next day or the third day.
[i] Did this similarity give you a kind of assurance? You came to a new country and you will live in it for a while. Did it give you a kind of assurance? Or was it something else? Did it give you a kind of assurance?
[r] Assurance? I don’t know if it gave me assurance. Of course, it was something else. But it didn’t give me assurance. I came from Syria. I didn’t want to leave. I was happy to come to Paris. But it didn’t make much difference to me that I came to Paris. I was happy to come to Paris. I was hoping to come to Paris as a tourist or as a student. But I was hoping to come as a refugee. Or that I was forced to come back to this country. But when I entered the French Embassy in Istanbul, I felt a kind of assurance. Assurance has to do with the fact that these countries have a kind of respect for the people inside these countries. So it was a good thing. It was a kind of assurance. Even the French Embassy was like our school. Our school was built by the French in 1920. It was a French-German school for Syria. It was built by the French in the 1920s. It was called Lycée Lycée Lycée. In the French Embassy, the school was similar to our school. And here, the school was similar to our school. So it was a good thing.
[i] Let’s talk about your normal day in Paris. Let’s talk about your activities and your interaction with Paris.
[r] My normal day in Paris, because I studied a lot about France and Paris in particular. Even at school, we had a French curriculum for studying French. It was called the Mouvement des Migeons. I don’t know if they teach it here or not, but it was a French curriculum. I knew French breakfasts. I knew all the French food. I even studied at school. I even knew the classes. I knew the classes in Paris. I even knew the classes in Paris. In the morning, the first thing I eat is a croissant. We eat French croissants. We have croissants in Syria. But we eat French croissants to see how they taste.
[i] What are the flavours that you like the most?
[r] They are tasty. They are a bit different. They have more butter. Our croissants have either cheese, or sugar cane, or chocolate. But here, we have either chocolate or croissants. They are tasty. The first day we went to the bakery, I bought light croissants, Not far from here, a pastry chef has received an award for his croissants… they are truly delicious. These are the French things. One of the strangest things for me in Paris, are the homeless people. I don’t see a lot of homeless people. Even in Syria, after the revolution, there was a war, and there were displaced people. There weren’t a lot of homeless people in the streets. We didn’t see a lot of people. Another thing that caught my attention, even though the city is well built, and the civilization is good, but it is dirty. There is a smell of dirt in the streets. For me, it is strange. We take a picture of Europe, which is very clean, very developed, and very modern. It is a strange thing. For me, the houses were a very interesting thing. The houses are very small. In Paris, my life was small, and there were no houses. It was a very strange thing, the houses. Then I started to get interested in poetry. I like poetry. I went to the Louvre Museum, Picasso Museum, and I went to the Concorde, to the Champs-Élysées. Then I went to the Eiffel Tower. All of them were beautiful. There was nothing… But I also felt a kind of strangeness.
[i] Why?
[r] Because this culture is very different. It is not different in appearance. It is a culture that is different from our culture. In Istanbul, there is a difference in the essence, or not in the essence, there is a difference, but the appearance is still close, because there is a diversity, there is an Eastern culture in these things. Here, the culture is different. Our countries, most of their culture is Skabian, most of our culture is Christian, regardless of whether it is a secular country or not. But we are talking about the essence of the culture. Here, there are more churches. In Syria, there are churches. In Istanbul, there are churches. But here, there are more churches. There are more different things. There are more… There is more diversity in the building. There is a lot of gold, there is a lot of jewelry, there are more things. We don’t have a lot of things. The building is simpler, maybe. These are the main differences, the main differences that exist. And the nice thing about Paris is that the building is old, it is still old, but there are good and bad things at the same time. The building is beautiful, but of course, I don’t know, but it is also a very small thing. And the French people on the street are a nice people. I mean, if I sit in a bar, or in a cafe, or in a place, they always open a Hadith, or something like that. The French language, I mean, I studied French well, but I didn’t practice the Hadith much. So I had to mix languages. One time I went to buy a cigarette, I asked for a cigarette in three languages. I spoke English, French, Turkish, and Arabic, four languages. So they gave me a packet, and I said it in four languages, English, French, Turkish, and Arabic. But the French people are nice, even though a lot of people used to tell me that French people are bad, Parisians are bad, and so on. They are very nice, very respectful, and they talk a lot. Even if they are passing by, in front of a crowd, if someone passes by, they open a Hadith, a long Hadith, and sometimes they start to talk about their personal life. It is a very strange thing.
[i] The differences that you found, positive or negative, how did you decide to deal with them?
[r] I decided to deal with them because I wanted to… There are also things, differences, that are not as important as the refugee issue. The first time in my life I was a refugee, my passport was taken from me. I am not used to this. The first time in my life I received aid from the state. In Syria I used to give aid to people, especially during the revolution. I used to give aid to people because it is not possible to get permission to work on the decision of the off-brow. It is a very bad thing. It is an injustice. It is the pinnacle of injustice. I don’t know anyone who works. I am 15 years old. I don’t know how to do anything. I used to work as a freelancer in Paris. Of course I can’t stop working, but it is not enough. Paris is a very sad city. I don’t have any problem with the differences. I don’t feel that there are many differences, especially during these years. The countries are not very close to each other, especially on the internet and in movies. Maybe the American culture is closer to the American movies, but there are not many differences between the two. I don’t have any conflicts and I don’t know what to do. I don’t have any problems with the situation in Syria. I was in France for a year and a half and I still have not received my documents. It is shocking that in Syria there is a lot of bad bureaucracy, but there is corruption. There is bureaucracy, but there is no corruption. In Syria, bureaucracy without corruption is bad. You can’t free yourself or do anything. These are the things that I focus on more than anything else. The differences that exist are not very big. Of course, there are cultural differences, but I consider them to be minor. I have many French friends and the French society is very similar to the Syrian society. Or maybe it is similar to all countries in the world. Of course, the French society is more open in terms of clothing, thinking, and God. Of course, my environment is different because my environment is also open in terms of artists and culture, but the French society is more open. that I focus on more than anything else. These differences are not difficult to deal with. I don’t think they are difficult or annoying whether positive or negative. Negative differences are not related to society. Negative differences are related to management. In management, the French society has always been racist. I call these things unintentional. For example, the French look at refugees as strange or something that should be treated in any way. It is a good intention to deal with these people in this way.
[i] How do you get on with these people?
[r] We always deal with them as if we came from Syria. Syria is not a third world country. Nor is it a developed country, but not a third world country.. It is a country ruled by a dictator for 40 years. But the Syrian people look at everything and know everything about France, America, schools, universities. Sometimes, they explain to people that the Arabic language is not Turkish. I used to talk to them in a way that they still have Google. They are my friends and they tell me that it is impossible that I don’t know this information. They always ask me how I live in Syria. But not everyone knows this information. I explain to them that I have a job in Syria, I have a house in Syria, I have a car, I have everything. I didn’t come here for the money or the food, I’m here for the security and to live and have my papers.
[i] Do you think that you have reached the level of security that you are talking about or not?
[r] In a way, yes. But I still don’t have a stable job. I still can’t contact I have good relations with the media and I have a strong cultural background. But again, I took a leave of absence and I went to a university. Of course, I don’t study in a regular way and I don’t have a program to learn French. I could also enrol at university, but I don’t have much time as I work. a lot of time because I work. I think it is better now that I have a political refugee status, a 10-year residence permit. Of course, it is better than before. I have social security haven’t got all my papers yet. I didn’t get the residence permit or the passport.
[i] Ok. Tell us about your professional activities. Can you find yourself in this field or not?
[r] My professional activities are the same as before. my professional or artistic project, which tends to be audiovisual, The language and the opportunities. Of course, the opportunities are bigger in Paris, but also the opportunities are huge. I made a video in the ministry of culture in the place where I work and I have relationships and so on. My work is the same as before. I make animations, videos, and movies. I started filming in Istanbul and I am still filming here. I also filmed in Berlin I’m just finishing editing here, and now I am working on a project that I am working on with the same agency that I am working with. So, it is the same as before. I am developing my experience and I think I have good opportunities in France.
[i] Are you thinking of continuing your life in France? In Paris to be precise?
[r] I don’t know because I am used to looking for another place when I left Syria. So, I am not sure that I can continue in Paris. Of course, I can continue in terms of logistics, but I don’t know if I can continue as a refugee in a negative sense. I was thinking about going back to Syria. It is true that I will go back to Syria, but I was thinking about being a refugee and going to the prefecture and waiting for 6-7 hours or going to France or Brazil. So, for me, other options even if I go back to Syria. But for me, the first two years were very difficult. The situation is different, but it is a difficult period. The first two years in France are very difficult.
[i] This period is over? or almost over?
[r] Almost finished.
[i] So how do you see your future once this period is over for good? this period is over for good? What are your plans and ambitions here in France?
[r] My ambitions… Now, I am trying to establish my own company which is an art production company or an art production group where we make films, commercials, and other things from my own production or from the production team. Later, I want to create an Arabic platform also in France where I am trying to work on something in the European market and something related to the Arabic market related to education, culture, and media. I am preparing for that in the future and I hope that in 5 or 6 years I will be able to work in a political field or in a social, political, and media field where I can participate in the world. I want to have political ideas because we do not have political ideas in Syria. Society, politically and sociologically sociologically, is destroyed. So, I want to work in these fields. So, in France, I want to establish an art and media business and a public business related to politics where I can turn into a politician and become independent. Is there anything that you can benefit from your life experience here to reflect on the projects
[r] Of course, the French experience is an important experience in politics that we can benefit from in Syria. Of course, we cannot say that the French experience is the same as the one in Syria. Syria needs a unique experience. The French experience is very important, as is the constitution, the way society is managed is also very important, even if I find all these ways of doing things a bit outdated, but hey, it’s up to the French, it’s none of my business, but it’s certain that I will benefit from it. I even want to meet left-wing politicians, it could be useful for later, to develop ideas for Syria, there are many things to do in Syria, like the metro, of course, it also exists in Istanbul, in Berlin, but the metro and all means of transport are very important. In any case, a Syrian who has already lived in Europe will no longer accept being insulted by a policeman in Syria. The Syrians will no longer accept living as they did before, and that’s really good… The Syrians, when they rose up… they really knew why they were making this revolution, It’s not the same thing in Iraq. Iraq… it’s a war. In Syria, people wanted a change of system. It’s good to take the French Revolution as an example? Although this revolution is highly contested, whether it succeeded or failed? But the principles of the revolution were maintained for a long time, it is perhaps a reassuring experience. After the Revolution, there was an emperor Napoleon I, then Napoleon III, and later the Republic, and now we are in the 5th Republic. In Syria, Bashar Al-Assad is still in power, of course in an artificial way because the country is occupied by Russia, so after the revolution, it’s a direct occupation, not a simple control over the country, a real Russian and Iranian occupation. So the French experience is very interesting, politically, for Syria.
[i] Good. I’m going to move on to another subject, [name of the interviewee], what are your relations with the Syrian community in Paris?
[r] I knew the Syrian community in Paris before I came to Paris, not everyone, but most of them. I was surprised to learn that there there are only 20,000 Syrians in the whole of France and 6,000 refugees. Some are friends, and I have already worked with them before coming, others are related to the revolution, all of them are in the arts or media. There you go, I know them, they’re my friends, in fact they are groups of French people, Syrians and other nationalities… that’s it… it’s normal…
[i] Can you tell us if you think you are well integrated? The integration of the Syrian community into French society in Paris?
[r] I don’t know, the word ‘integration’ is strange to me, integrated into what and how? Here or elsewhere, people are the same, the only difference is the language and I do speak French, so it’s not as if I was talking about aliens. It’s not a weird society here, I don’t feel it that way, I don’t really understand this subject. Let’s imagine that I don’t eat pork, I can eat halal, let’s imagine that I don’t drink, I can choose not to drink In short, it’s not difficult to integrate in France. I know the history of France very well, if I didn’t know it, I could find it on YouTube I don’t really understand the word ‘integration’ People make such a big deal out of this word, they say, I want to integrate, to integrate, you have to speak French, and even if you don’t speak French, you can be well integrated. It’s a strange thing. Three of my friends don’t speak French, they’ve only been in France for a year and a half, but they have a lot of French friends, and they speak English, even the French are starting to speak Arabic [laughter] It’s not a difficult thing… Apart from being a refugee, nothing is difficult for me, despite everything, it’s nothing.
[i] Well, I’d like you to tell us a little about your love life in Paris. My love life in Paris is a bit strange, nothing to do with life in Paris, but because I was coming out of a bad period in Istanbul, I had relationships that broke me a little, in France, meetings are easier, Syrian girls as well as French girls and girls of other nationalities, many very brief encounters… so far I haven’t had a stable relationship. The majority of French girls want serious relationships, which is good, but I don’t live in a permanent place to have a stable relationship. French women are more traditional than Syrian women for me, the Syrian women are in the middle of an identity crisis, they are refugees, they have to sort out their papers and a thousand other things… that’s it… that’s all.
[i] Later, do you think you’ll start a family with a French woman in France? Honestly, I prefer a Syrian woman. Well, that’s not how it works, it all depends on the girl herself.
[i] Why do you prefer a Syrian girl?
[r] The language! Even after thirty years of learning French, Arabic will remain my mother tongue, even if I can think in French, the language of childhood will remain Arabic. In any case, I have no problem starting a family here, it’s just a question of preference, it’s not essential.
[i] Can you tell us about your everyday life in your neighbourhood?
[r] I live in a neighbourhood that is considered to be middle-class, when I say that I’m in the 15th people say to me, ‘Ah, you’re bourgeois’! No, I’m not. Maybe Syrian bourgeois… [laughs]. Well, my neighbourhood is very nice. I know the bakers well, they have become my friends, the baker… everyone knows me, they know my habits, I know the people who work in the Lebanese shop, I know a bar that has become ours, my friends come to this bar, so I know all the bars, all the supermarkets… even the neighbours, I get on well with them and we speak French in the lift, which is good.
[i] What do you do in your free time? Do you do any sport or other activities outside of your professional life? In France? No, I don’t do any sport, but I should, it’s so easy here. People in Syria aren’t used to running in the street, but here they do. Well, for the moment, I’m not doing anything, I’m trying to remember… but nothing, Well, I’ve made progress in the kitchen.
[i] Tell us about it.
[r] I made progress in the kitchen as soon as I left Syria. In Syria, my mother did the cooking, sometimes me. With time here, I have progressed again, I cook, or else with my sister. Cooking is the only area in which I have improved, but it has nothing to do with Paris, but I don’t have any more time now. Now I also know many kinds of dishes, here, there are many migrants so more dishes. Before, I tried Turkish, Qatari, Jordanian food, a bit of Indian food. Here I discovered Vietnamese, Chinese, Ethiopian, Senegalese cuisine.
[i] Well, can you tell us about your family, do you have family here? In Syria?
[r] My father died 5 years ago, my mother is in Damascus, we are trying to get her to come to France, my brother applied for a visa for her but it was refused, very strange! She has been to Europe 60-70 times… she has travelled all over the world, and strangely enough she has been refused a visa. We’ve asked again, we’ll get him here one way or another. I have two older brothers in Istanbul, a sister in the United States, a sister in Germany and a brother in Dubai, a sister in Tunisia, my sister and I here in this house. That’s it, my family is scattered all over the world.
[i] How do you communicate with them?
[r] With WhatsApp, Facebook, the Internet, whatever.
[i] Has your stay in Paris changed your relationship with your family?
[r] It’s a very big family… that’s the problem, I was with my two older brothers and my nephew in Istanbul, I couldn’t see my sister here. Now it’s the opposite, I can’t see my brothers but I was able to visit my sister in Germany. My sister who lives in Germany, she goes back and forth between Istanbul and Germany. We’re thinking of meeting up in Istanbul, it’s easier for visas. Well, my sister in the United States, the paperwork is complicated. It takes time for my mother too, the Syrian passport has become a curse. She can go back to Turkey, but it costs 5, 6000 dollars. Here the conditions are clear, but we are not sure of the result.
[i] In your opinion, is France a welcoming country for immigrants?
[r] Of course, since there are many in France, But in France, there are 20,000 Syrians while in Germany, there are 800,000. So for Syrians, the figures are clear. I don’t know why, but Germany is more welcoming than France. Yet neither country has a border with Syria. There are 3.5 million Syrians in Turkey but it does have a border with Syria, in Europe, Germany is the country that has taken in the most Syrians, followed by Sweden, Denmark and lastly France. There are many immigrants in France, but I don’t have any figures. I know that there are 20,000 Syrians. Well, in a way, it’s a welcoming country, but having your papers in order is very complicated, very, very difficult even for the French, getting new papers is extremely difficult. Is France a welcoming country? That’s a difficult question to answer. The French in the street yes, but the prefecture is a nightmare for immigrants and refugees, it’s a nightmare even for the French. Every time you go to the prefecture, they try to find an excuse to postpone your appointment, it’s a pain! France terre d’asile is an association for asylum seekers, it’s a bit better, but not very well organised either, I also can’t understand why people are sleeping outside the prefecture, why there are no appointments online… nothing… To answer this question, the French that I know, yes, they are welcoming, the country, less, frankly, it’s difficult to answer.
[i] Well, what are your favourite places in Paris?
[r] It depends… for evenings out, it’s Belleville, you can drink and spend the evening there, Châtelet is not bad either, and the town hall too.
[i] What are your criteria for choosing these places?
[r] Belleville is cheap and you have space in the street, the most important thing is the price, the bars are cheap. For my evenings, the price is vital. Châtelet is good, there is space and it is also clean, it’s one of the cleanest places in Paris. There you go… there’s also Jussieu on the Seine, next to the Arab World Institute, the Quais de Seine is nice, those are my favourite places in Paris. It also depends… during the day, I like Montparnasse…
[i] How can you compare your leisure activities with leisure activities in Syria?
[r] Leisure activities depend on your social situation, here, there are more bars and nightclubs than in Syria, there are some in Syria too, here there are many more… after all, it’s Paris! There are lots of bars and nightclubs, lots of theme parks, like Disneyland, but because of all the paperwork I had to do, none of that mattered. There’s also the age issue, as I arrived here at the age of 29, in Syria I had more fun, I was younger, I had my car and I knew all the places, there are certainly more activities here, there were many in Syria too, there are certainly more activities here and what’s more, they are better organised.
[i] Do the French see culture, theatre and cinema in a different way to Syrians? In Syria, do people see these things in a different way?
[r] Theatre, cinema and books, all part of French culture, here in France on the metro, on the bus, you see people reading. In Syria, if people saw someone reading, they might make fun of them and call them an intellectual. All this has to do with the Syrian political regime, it controls politics and society. There is a theatre in Syria, but it is closely monitored by the state. It is the same for the cinema, there is no longer any Syrian film production, cinema is no longer part of Syrian culture. Yet in the 1950s, cinema played a major role in Syrian culture, it would disappear completely a few years later. There is a huge amount of television production, but no more film production, here the theatre is normal, there are museums. What revolts me is that in Syria, you could make a museum every 10 metres, there are many remains in Syria, the country is very old and it has some of the oldest cities in the world. I’m not talking about the regime, I’m talking about the land and the civilisation. Finally, the state’s cultural management, or rather the political regime that governs Syria, is very poor. There is a lot of surveillance, a lot of co-opting, all of which is very bad. Here in France, the cinema is in in touch with international cinema, so here it’s much better, and it’s good for my work.
[i] Well, tell us about your experience of freedom, of every day here in Paris, in France, tell us a little about it?
[r] Of course, here there is freedom but not in Syria, freedom is very important here, it doesn’t concern me because it’s not my country. We always wonder why we don’t have the same thing, and why in Syria we can’t say whatever we want. After leaving Syria… Turkey was the only example of an open country, even Qatar is more open than Syria, especially the media, it’s much more open. I was really surprised in Turkey or here, I held my camera in front of a policeman, we were filming a demonstration, and they didn’t do anything to me, didn’t say anything I filmed the police officers themselves. Yet Turkey is one of the countries on the red list for freedom of expression but compared to Syria, they’re on the green list… Here it’s even better, here human beings are highly valued, in Syria, the State is valued and not the individual, I meant the regime not the State. Unfortunately it’s called Al-Assad’s Syria. Here you can insult the president, a French person who hears that… finds me strange, but for us, insulting the president was a pleasure at the beginning of the Revolution, people took intense pleasure in insulting the president, it was so forbidden that you couldn’t insult him even locked alone in the toilet. Here these things are quite normal, here there are elections, the elections here are rigged, We knew in advance that it would be a yes vote. Here the elections are normal, freedom of expression too, which is something we don’t have at all, so integrating here, I don’t know how… here we live normally, we live freely so that’s normal, whereas in Syria you really have to integrate. You have to be at one with the state because it oppresses you.
[i] Well. France has faced many problems with terrorism, and following the attacks, the police presence has been stepped up in the street… more checks… when you go into supermarkets, even the army… What is your reaction when you see all this?
[r] I arrived after the attacks in France, so I couldn’t compare the two situations. In Turkey, the same thing happened too, the coup d’état, all that, so the army was in the streets too. Me, when I see the police, when I see the army, to me, they are my enemies, no matter where I see them… they are my enemies. I know that in France they are not my enemies, but I still see them that way. It’s very strange for me to see soldiers in the metro over-armed, with their guns pointing upwards, I had never been to Europe but I never imagined seeing this in Europe, it’s weird, but at least you’re not stopped and asked for your ID, and in supermarkets, people are not searched. For me or for any Syrian, the police or the army remain a strange thing. It’s weird and it’s normal at the same time. In Syria, you find tanks in the street. When I was driving in Syria, lorries carrying soldiers or a tank would overtake my car. Here for me it’s a bit strange, since it’s Europe, we shouldn’t see armed people.
[i] Well, do you think you’ll ever be able to say that you were part of this society, is it your country?
[r] Frankly, I can’t answer, I can’t say yes or no even if at times I feel French, I am above all Syrian. If in 5 years’ time I decide to apply for French nationality then what they’re saying now doesn’t make sense. For the moment I am not convinced to apply for French nationality.
[i] Why?
[r] It has nothing to do with France, I have no problem at all with France, perhaps France has something to do with the Sykes-Picot agreements… My real problem is Syria, for me Syria is very important, it is sacred. I was active in the revolution, I went to prison because I believed in a new Syria, it’s very strange for me to apply for another nationality, with time, that may change… Maybe later, the way I see France will change, for the moment, it is a country that has welcomed me, I cannot say that it is my country, I have no problem with French nationality, with France, quite the contrary, it is a source of pride to have French nationality, here we respect the citizen, the French citizen and even refugees, a refugee has more rights than a Syrian citizen. My nationality problem is my attachment to Syria, a revolution has begun and it is not over, I have no idea if I want to be French or not at the moment, it’s still too early to say, I can’t think about that right now. When they took my passport from me at the prefecture, I cried, when they took my Syrian passport.
[i] Why?
[r] They took my identity, and I no longer have an identity, I am very proud to be Syrian, although before the Revolution, there was nothing to be proud of, except that Syria was a great civilisation. Otherwise I’ll be proud of what… Maher Al-Assad for example, a fool. After the Revolution, there was something to be proud of, we are Syrians… and we have the right to change. Taking my passport is taking my identity, it’s not right, I hope I won’t have to apply for French nationality, I’ll see later, but for the moment, this is the situation…
[i] If the conditions allowed it, would you return to Syria?
[r] If Bashar al-Assad falls, I’ll go back straight away. Of course, I’m keeping in touch with my contacts in France, it’s a unique experience, but in the end I can only see myself in Syria.
[i] Well, what motivates you in your everyday life in Paris, and what are the negative things that take up a lot of your energy?
[r] Paperwork takes up all my energy. What motivates me are the cultural activities I take part in, festivals… we take part… in things that’s it… the paperwork is really negative, a pain the paperwork has an impact on everyone, it’s more than you can imagine, it’s total paralysis, anaesthesia. Cultural activities are everything that is good… always, my plans…
[i] Well, if you could choose where to live in Paris, which arrondissement would you choose?
[r] I would choose Châtelet.
[i] Why?
[r] Because it’s nice, and it’s in the centre of Paris, Châtelet or Les Halles in the 1st arrondissement,
[i] Even if the apartments are small?
[r] When I thought of Châtelet, I thought of a large apartment, I can find a living room and a bedroom… it’s big for here, for sure, I choose Châtelet… 1st arrondissement.
[i] Well, I’d like to ask you about your future, what are you thinking about for your future?
[i] When I think about my future, I think about my plans, political plans related to society, and especially in relation to Syria. It is true that the future of Syria is in the hands of the great powers, but I am trying to at least do something for later I want to have lawyers, people to take power. For my personal future, it’s mainly work and having enough money to live well, getting married and having children. But when I think about my future, it’s really linked to Syria.
[i] Well, I wanted to ask you about the French view of Syrians, in everyday life here in Paris, We come across beggars with a sign saying ‘Syrian family’, they are asking for help, how do you see these things? how do your French friends react to this?
[i] Frankly, these beggars in the metro are in total need, they are on the street, I can’t know if it’s true or not, in principle the state provides assistance, but sometimes there are still problems with the papers, we don’t know if it’s true or not. If I end up with a French idiot, he’s going to tell me that all Syrians are beggars, but I can tell him that when I see a French beggar in the metro that all French people are beggars. It depends which French people you’re talking about, it’s clear, it’s embarrassing to see them, and more than a French beggar, At least you can talk to him in French. I don’t know how much they need begging in the street… I don’t know, I can’t judge them.
[i] Well, I’d like to ask you a question, your anxieties… here in Paris?
[r] the papers… the papers… I’m afraid to go to the prefecture, I hated the police, I hate them even more now, they are employees and not police officers, the papers… I don’t have any anxiety specific to my situation in France. Except if we vote for a right-wing government that launches hate speech against refugees. I understood when Marine Le Pen lost that the French are aware, especially after the Second World War. And even more so, they are a people who have made the Revolution, he knows the principles of a revolution, my French friend told me, impossible for Le Pen to win, she had 50% of the vote, but she told me, there was no way Le Pen would win. I thought Le Pen was in a good position, but anyway, she didn’t win. There you go, the French are really aware that fundamentalists and dictators no longer have a role to play. There go my fears… In any case, I can always go somewhere else, I’m used to it now with moving house. What scares me the most… has nothing to do with France, is that Bashar al-Assad will remain in power for a long time, that really scares me.
[i] So, for you, staying for a long time in France is a source of anxiety?
[r] Not really a source of anxiety, but if one day I decide to stay in France, I would at least like to be able to return to my country, and be able to say that we have succeeded in our revolution, and be able to say that we have succeeded in our revolution, and that I didn’t go to prison for nothing, and that all our martyred friends and the people in prison, that it not be a sacrifice for nothing, in any case it was not useless, he’s going to fall. I hope to witness his fall.
[i] I’d like to ask you a question about social security here in France.
[r] That’s strange! In Syria, social security was reserved for state employees, here, there is social security for refugees, That’s a good thing, you can go to the doctor or the pharmacy and you don’t pay anything, That’s really good. In Syria, the medicine was very good. Of course, it can’t be compared with medicine in France even though I haven’t really seen medicine here, in Syria, getting treatment is expensive but I had the means, the social security system in France is a wonderful thing, it’s a real success, I’ve already seen documentaries about the social security system in the United States, it’s nothing like France.
[i] You worked in Syria for a long time, you know exactly how it works compared to working here… in France, ‘commute, eat, sleep’, the Frenchman wakes up, takes the metro, goes to work and then to sleep… it’s a closed circle. I would like to hear the opinion of someone who has worked in Syria and here… A comparison? The rhythm?
[r] In Syria, there are also micro (micro-bus) sleep-work-sleep arrangements, many people live this way in Syria, of course in Paris the pace is faster, really very fast. Berlin is slower, Istanbul too, Syria isn’t fast either. Paris has the fastest pace I’ve ever seen, even people walking quickly in the street.
[i] Do you think that’s a good thing?
[r] It’s a good thing but for the wrong reasons, the reasons are that Paris is a very expensive city… it’s a cruel city. If I fall… by the time I get up, I’ve been trampled on. Paris is really very expensive, you can’t be comfortable financially, especially when you’ve just arrived. It’s different with someone who has spent a lot of time here, Paris is really expensive, I don’t even compare it to Syria, I compare it to Berlin. In Berlin, people are more financially comfortable, the good thing about Paris is that there’s always work to be found. But even so, Berlin is the capital of the most powerful country economically in Europe, more powerful than France itself, perhaps because Paris is a densely populated small city.
[i] Can we say that Paris wears people down? I honestly can’t answer, I haven’t yet got into that spiral, maybe yes, maybe no… I don’t know, I don’t know everything, the French can tell us, they’ve been here a long time, all I know is that Paris is very expensive, and the apartments are small. But there are still many job opportunities. The problem is also the centralisation on the big cities, many things are only done in Paris, maybe that’s the difference with Germany. Germany is less centralised, Paris is a small city with a lot of people, it’s the equivalent of Damascus but with double the population.
[i] Do you see a difference between life in Paris during the day and at night? Is Paris the same at night as it is during the day? In your opinion?
[r] During the day, you mainly see older people, while in the evening it’s more young people, at night, it’s the start of an evening… that’s the difference. during the day, people are in the bakeries during the day and in bars in the evening, that’s life.
[i] You walked around several places in Paris. Did you notice the different social classes? Different places from each other? Different styles?
[r] Of course, where I live, it’s not Barbès, where I live, people are financially comfortable, even rich, Barbès is inevitably poorer, there are also the suburbs, that’s well known too. In France, there are many social classes.
[i] How?
[r] I noticed that with the qualifiers, bourgeois, bobo, etc. it’s a bit weird… It also exists in Syria, it’s a bit different here. Here people tell you, you’re a wimp… What does that mean? What do you mean, bobo! I’m a refugee! [laughs] There are many social classes, especially in Paris, I don’t know about other cities. In Paris it’s very clear.
[i] How do you see the other refugee or immigrant communities? Tell us about it.
[r] As I am involved with the association Ateliers des artistes en exil, I saw many refugees from many countries. There were Sudanese, Ghanaians, Iraqis, Palestinians and Russians too. Normal… not too many exchanges, I naturally have more in common with the Syrians since I am Syrian myself, and it’s the same dialect, the same dialect by the way as the Palestinians and the Iraqis, but we are all friends, these people are trying to show solidarity, Africans together, Syrians too, although… Syrians like to mix and talk to others, at least the people I know, so there you go… normal.
[i] When you’re with French people… do you think that coming from a foreign country is a strength? In your everyday life or for work?
[r] I think it’s a strength to come from a foreign country, and to have an outsider’s view of society. And you have nothing to lose, so you can try anything. It’s also a weakness, it’s valid for housing or then you don’t have a fixed place to live, language too, relationships, that’s a very important thing.
[i] Does this weakness give you the impression of belonging to a small minority?
[r] Minority… Not really, even if I am part of a minority, but it is a country of law, it’s the way you look at things that changes. The only difference with Syria… is that here there are laws, In Syria, there are none, here, if a racist provokes you, you can exercise your rights, In Syria, this same racist, if he has connections, is the winner, Quite simply, there are no laws. Here someone is calling me a refugee… I can file a complaint, people who come from countries like ours are still afraid, and they don’t even know their rights, they don’t know that it’s a country of law. You can’t be insulted, one cannot be accused of something if one has done nothing, I have always seen the police as my enemies, but I also know that I cannot be wrongly accused.
[i] How did you find out about your rights and responsibilities in this country?
[r] It’s very clear… the laws are very clear, quite simply, here you must not steal, not corrupt I’m talking about the big picture, not the small details, these are obvious things, the motto of France ‘liberty, equality, fraternity’ is very clear.
[i] In your opinion, is this motto applied correctly?
[r] I don’t know… but the law is the same for everyone, even at the prefecture, if you speak French well, you can tell them that you don’t agree with them. Once, at the prefecture, a lady behaved racist towards a refugee, she didn’t want to give him his papers, the refugee called on the services of a person I know at the Atelier, this person intervened with the lady who started yelling at him, he then asked to see his director, she replied: you don’t have the right. He knows the law, so he told her, if… article number so and so… gives me the right to speak with your director if you behave in a racist manner, You do not have the right to behave in this manner. He spoke with another person, and even later, she was fired, Quite simply, you can resort to the law. Of course, sometimes things go wrong, but in general, the law can protect and help you, we need that in Syria. Syrians are always afraid because they come from a country ruled by a dictator… we have no rights, we have a constitution that can be changed in 3 seconds.
[i] Well, I’d like to ask you a question that’s a bit philosophical. Let’s imagine that Paris is a person with its own character. How would you see this person? Before you arrived in France, and now after your stay?
[r] Before coming here … Paris for me, she was a beautiful girl, now I find her beautiful too, respectful, but she’s a bit cruel, hard to win over… that’s it.
[i] Difficult to tame?
[r] Difficult to tame but we can still manage it.
[i] Well, I’m done. Thank you, is there anything you’d like to add? Anything to add?
[r] No, I think we’ve covered everything… nothing to add… Except that, when I arrived here, I gained security but I lost stability. In Syria, you have a stable life, you have your relationships, your friends, your home, here, you have nothing, but you have security.
[i] You’ll have all that later, I hope?
[r] Of course, there is still a difference, but maybe later I will have everything, not just in France, in any any country, apart from Syria.
[i] Well, do you want to give advice to a refugee who has just arrived? What is your advice?
[r] Be patient for the first two years, quite simply, he must be patient while waiting for his papers, I’ve always said that… the papers take 2 years. When people arrive, they go through a period of anger and depression because of the paperwork, so be patient, the paperwork is really difficult.
[i] Thank you once again, I hope you can accomplish everything you wanted to do, and realise all your projects, for France or for Syria.
[r] You’re welcome… my pleasure.