SU_T_52

[i] Hello [name].
[r] Hello.
[i] How are you?
[r] Yes, I’m fine.
[i] Welcome. Can you tell us who you are and where you come from?
[r] I come from the Congo. From the Democratic Republic of the Congo. The capital is Kinshasa.
[i] How long have you been in Italy?
[r] More than fifteen… more than fifteen years.
[i] Fifteen years?
[i] And when you were still in the Congo what did you do?
[r] I studied. And then I had a small job. I went to school and then I had a small job.
[i] Of course. And why did you decide to emigrate and come here to Italy?
[r] Because many things were going badly in my country.
[i] Yes.
[r] The dictatorship, many things weren’t really going well.
[i] Of course. Didn’t you feel free?
[r] No. Not really, no.
[i] Of course. And when you decided to come here to Italy, how did your family take the news?
[r] I don’t know… Normally they took it badly because separation always hurts. Because one goes far away from the other country. And this separation always hurts. Nobody can say that it’s nice here. Let’s say it’s nice that I go, but they are hurt. When we see each other, 5 years, 10 years, who knows?
[i] Of course. You don’t know why. You suffer. The distance is the obstacle.
[r] That’s it, yes.
[i] Let’s say your first trip here, how was it?
[r] It was a bit… A bit strange because… I left my country, I come here, everything is new to me. The people, how they behave, everything. It was really new to me. New, new, everything.
[i] Of course. And what was your first day like? Don’t you remember the first day you set foot on this land?
[r] The first day I went out on the street, I wanted to go this way, that way, and no one wanted to answer because they spoke French. I asked them, and they ran away. And finally I found someone. He told me what I was looking for. I said, it’s like this, like this. He said, go to the police station. And I went to introduce myself at the police station.
[i] And did you come by sea?
[r] No, no, no. To Ero.
[i] So. How did you overcome these obstacles? Especially for a new guy, young, African, who doesn’t know the language, who comes to a totally different country. What steps did you take to be able to integrate well into this society?
[r] Actually, as I studied a little, and I went to the Catholic Church, with the Italian priests, I was a bit used to them. And then, when I came here, also thanks to them I came here, then, for a little while my head was spinning.
[i] So you managed to, let’s say, you found some help from the Italians?
[r] Yes, really, some help.
[i] And so, over time, have you managed to make friends? How have you settled in?
[r] At first I went to a dormitory, and then I made friends at an Italian school, you can learn the language first, and then little by little, well, everything went well, little by little. Not immediately fast. The food was also a bit bad for me, because I’m not really used to always eating pasta, and things there, no. However, we eat something else. Come here, you still have to get used to it.
[i] Of course. And let’s say, in these friendships you’ve made, how do they treat you? How do you feel? Do you feel different from them, or are you just yourself, normal?
[r] Actually, we say, in the Congo, if you go to another country, you have to get used to them. You leave your behaviour from your country behind. And you follow them.
[i] You have to adapt.
[r] Adapt.
[i] Of course. Let’s say, did you manage to work?
[r] Yes, yes, I studied for two qualifications, or maybe three. I have three qualifications.
[i] In what, what?
[r] In electrics, and then I got my GCSEs, and then also, as they say, the Camerana school. I studied a little.
[i] So you worked hard.
[r] Yes, I still wanted to go a bit further, but I took the tests and didn’t pass.
[i] Right. And let’s say, your culture, African culture, how do you live it here, let’s say, in everyday life? For example, the food, the music you listen to?
[r] It’s really too different because where we come from, when we see each other in the street, we greet each other, even if we don’t know each other. We greet each other, good morning, good evening, but here even if you greet someone they don’t reply. I know you, instead of saying hello, which costs nothing, good morning, good evening, but here it’s a little different. Even smiling, here it’s a little different. Everyone thinks…
[i] They think that maybe if you smile or say hello, even if you don’t know them, you might want something in return.
[r] But maybe that’s how they think. Maybe they’re wrong.
[i] Of course.
[r] Maybe greet them…
[i] Because they’re not used to it.
[r] They’re not used to it, right.
[i] And how did you deal with this difference? The fact that you’re from a different country, how did you deal with these things here, where there are no points in common?
[r] It really wasn’t easy, that’s the truth. I can’t say it was good, it was fine, but little by little, but even in your own country you’re always at home.
[i] Of course.
[r] Because, like me, I mean me, I always feel like a foreigner.
[i] Of course.
[r] Because the things I can do in my country, the things I can’t do… That’s it.
[i] Of course.
[r] That’s it.
[i] And let’s say, the community of the Congo, let’s say your national echo, do you meet here when there are celebrations? For example, national holidays in your country?
[r] Yes, yes, yes.
[i] And what do you do together?
[r] Like on the 30th of June, there’s the dependency.
[i] Yes.
[r] We’re liberated with Belgium. But this is fake. Maybe we’re still…
[i] Maybe you’ve officially taken on the dependency, but as you say, underneath?
[r] Underneath, with the paper, with the cards no. With the word yes.
[i] Of course.
[r] But with the card no, it’s not yet.
[i] No.
[r] But with my fellow countryman yes, we are used to meeting for celebrations. If someone has an anniversary, we meet. Maybe in church. Lots of things, yes, yes.
[i] And what, let’s say, on these festive days, how do you dress? What do you eat? What music do you listen to?
[r] We listen to our music more. That the Italians, our music, more. Yes, yes, yes. Even the clothes are ours. It’s kind of nice. When we meet like this, we feel at home.
[i] Of course.
[r] Not like in Italy.
[i] At least for that moment you really live your culture.
[r] Yes, yes. The food is also ours. We leave some pasta, we leave this. Actually, one cooks from their home. And then we are all, then we eat as a family.
[i] Has any Italian ever asked you, let’s say, to taste a typical dish from your country?
[r] Yes, yes, yes. Many times. Many times. My colleagues, many people have asked me this.
[i] And what did you cook in the voucher?
[r] But I really don’t know how to cook our food. Because in my culture, in our house, my parents said that a man can’t cook. In my house.
[i] Yes.
[r] That’s what they said, that a man can’t cook. I didn’t learn to cook in my house.
[i] Of course.
[r] Because a man can’t, but women can.
[i] Of course. And let’s say, once you’re here, you’ve picked up something of this culture, maybe you’ve started to learn how to cook something Italian.
[r] I’ve learnt to cook Italian things, our things.
[i] Of course. And what else have you learnt? Which Italian dish do you like the most?
[r] The Italian dish I like the most is pasta with meat sauce, which I like a lot. And then… how can I put it?
[i] Lasagne.
[r] I like lasagne very, very much. And then also… how can I put it… also legumes.
[i] Yes, of course.
[r] The legumes that I like. Yes, yes. Green vegetables and things like that.
[i] Dried things, even dried legumes. And let’s see, do you do any sport here? Do you practice any sport?
[r] Yes, I tried at the beginning, but it didn’t go well.
[i] Why?
[r] I tried playing a bit of football, but it didn’t go well. Because where I played it didn’t go well at all. Not for me, but for the coach. He didn’t get along with me.
[i] That’s it.
[r] Because they’re foreigners.
[i] Of course.
[r] The colour too, yes. But I didn’t like it.
[i] Ah, so you sometimes feel judged because you’re black?
[r] Yes. There’s no doubt about that. There’s never any doubt about that.
[i] And what can you say to these people who judge you because of the colour of your skin? Even sometimes before they get to know you.
[r] Because their thoughts are shorter. Why do you say that? Because many Italians, even in my country, the Congo, there are many Italians, but they are a little different. That an Italian has left is different from the one who has never left.
[i] Of course.
[r] And this is different. It is different.
[i] Because maybe you think that the one who left has already opened his mind, has learnt.
[r] He has understood, yes, yes. He has understood that we are all the same. Black and white, we are all the same.
[i] [name], I would like to go back in time and make you remember the first day when you returned to the Congo, after you had been here in Italy. How was it?
[r] Here in Italy?
[i] No, let’s say when you came here to Italy. How long did you stay without returning to the Congo?
[r] A long time. A long time.
[i] And when you returned, when you returned to the Congo on the first day, how did you experience that…
[r] I really saw all the things that have changed. All the things I left behind. It’s different. The houses, the friends. The others are married, the others have left. My neighbours, some were there, some were no longer there. A bit different. I heard wrong.
[i] You felt like a stranger in your own city.
[r] Again, new. Because I still have to learn the streets, how I can get out of here.
[i] And the people.
[r] Still a foreigner. When I went back there, as a foreigner again. I have to learn everything all over again.
[i] [name], would you ever consider returning to live in the Congo forever or do you plan to settle here for good?
[r] No. My thoughts are already on the present. I plan to return. Because it’s like Moses. They did it for four hundred years and then I came back. I escaped slavery. And I too think that one day I will return to live the remaining years I have left on earth.
[i] You’d like to return to your country. Die there, in the land where you were born. Yes, yes.
[r] I think I’ll go back one day.
[i] Of course. [name], do you have anything to add? Anything to tell us?
[r] Actually, I like Italy because it gave me my job, my children. It gave me almost everything about Italy. You can’t say that you’re always bad. You can also say good.
[i] Of course.
[r] I grew up here. I also understood many things. I got my documents here. I can return without any problems. I say thank you for Italy. I gave you work, many things.
[i] Many opportunities that you didn’t have in your country of origin.
[r] I couldn’t have my own country here in Italy because I got it here. Thank God. And thank Italy too.
[i] Thank you. And from me, thank you and I wish you all the best and good luck in your life.
[r] Thank you very much.