SU_T_46

[i] Hi [name].
[r] Hi.
[i] How are you?
[r] Fine.
[i] Welcome
[r] Thank you.
[r] My name is [name], I’m from Pakistan and I’ve been in Italy for more than three years, always in Turin.
[i] And what’s the name of your home town in Pakistan?
[r] Islamabad.
[i] Islamabad. Why did you choose to emigrate?
[r] Here?
[i] Yes, why did you choose to come to Italy?
[r] To work.
[i] What did you do in Pakistan?
[r] Nothing because I came here directly after finishing school.
[i] How did you experience your first day in Italy?
[r] The first day was very, very difficult. Because I didn’t know anyone here and I was always looking for food and other things. I stayed a few days, two or three weeks even in the park. There are a lot of us.
[i] And what was the experience of sleeping in the park like?
[r] Yes, there were tents.
[i] But did you put up these tents?
[r] No, someone brought them, I don’t know who. They help out like that. They also always bring food, you know, milk, chocolate. Sometimes they bring clothes.
[i] Still here in Turin?
[r] Yes, in Turin, at the Porte Palatine park.
[i] And how did you get through this episode?
[r] Because it’s hard for us. Little by little, the community also gave us things, everything. A project came in.
[i] What’s it called?
[r] SPRAR project.
[i] What do you allow this project to do?
[r] This project pays for everything, food, rent. Which is enough to live on here. You’ve had it for almost two years.
[i] And after the two years, what did you do after the project ended?
[r] After the project I found a job and rented a house and I’m still working.
[i] And how do you get on at work with your colleagues? Do you work with Italians?
[r] With Italians, yes. And they’re all good.
[i] Are you fairly integrated, fairly included?
[r] No. In the sense, are you fairly included in society, let’s say, with Italian friends, are you fairly integrated, don’t you have any problems?
[r] Yes, no, I don’t have any problems because I have Italian friends, families, like [name]. He’s my best friend. Because I found out about the park from him. When we’re in the park, he goes inside, something, because he’s come two or three times. And I met. And his little, little, little daughter, [name]. Who’s now grown up, she’s a big girl.
[i] Did they help you?
[r] Yes, and I see her as my little sister.
[i] In the last three years, have you ever returned to Pakistan?
[r] Yes, twice.
[i] And what was it like to go back there?
[r] To go back there…
[i] I mean, after having lived here in Italy, in a western country, when you went back there, how did you see the difference?
[r] Well, there was a difference, but not a big one.
[i] Were you able to feel at home again or did you feel different from them since you lived in Italy?
[r] Yes, I felt a little different but only for a while because I lived there for a long time and grew up there.
[i] And when you decided to come to Italy, how did your family take this decision?
[r] My family didn’t want me to come to Italy. But as others were coming, I wanted to come too, to have something better, that’s why I came. And now I’m here… because before I was in Greece, I’ve been here for almost 15 years.
[i] So you started to emigrate early?
[r] Yes.
[i] How did you come?
[r] To Greece.
[i] How? By plane?
[r] No, no, because I’m 15 years old, I can’t travel by plane because it’s too dangerous. So I took another route by bus and car.
[i] And how was this journey?
[r] Difficult, difficult.
[i] What can you tell us about this trip?
[r] Because it’s difficult, you can’t find anything to eat, it’s difficult because it’s always a two-day trip, it always has been.
[i] But on this trip were you alone?
[r] No, there were others too.
[i] Were they also your age?
[r] Yes. And they all arrive like that, those who don’t have it, they comment on it. Because I was in Greece for many years, then I found 15 years old.
[i] And what were those years in Greece like, how did you live?
[r] It was good in Greece. I worked, everything, a house, everything is there… there is money.
[i] And why did you leave Greece, did you come to Italy?
[r] Because I went back in 2013, I left because my boss sold the whole factory, everything he had, he sold it all. When I went back, he was in hospital, he didn’t want to work anymore because he had sold everything.
[r] So after you came back from your holiday, you found yourself without a job?
[r] Yes, because I’ve been in Pakistan for a long time, because he told me he wants to be with me, there’s a house, everything. But there’s no work, and I thought that without a job I had to make a home…
[i] Why do you also support your family in Pakistan?
[r] Yes, because he came here, that’s for sure.
[i] Let’s say that since you’ve been here, you’ve made some Italian friends. Has any Italian friend ever asked you to cook something from your country?
[r] I’ve cooked already, two or three times, because two or three families came to eat, they ate with us. Other boys and girls too, they came many times, they ate with us.
[i] And how was this experience? Did you like it?
[r] Yes, yes.
[i] And what good food did you cook, shall we say? Any typical Pakistani dishes?
[r] Yes, there are two or three types of dishes, but there’s a good one like rice, rice with chicken, curries. Even ciabatta, like that, there are other things.
[i] Let’s talk about Pakistani culture, how do you live it here? Let’s talk about your everyday life, how do you live the culture and customs of your country? In the sense of food, music, traditions…
[r] Yes, and we have everything for our house, because our food is in the shop, even here, near Emilia, we always buy from there. What other things do we buy in the supermarket, what’s near our…
[i] And what music do you listen to?
[r] And music… it’s our music, like the Indians’, even ours, what we listen to is a mix.
[i] Of course. And what have you taken from Italian culture? What do you feel has remained, what are you using from Italian culture, from their customs, their traditions?
[r] Like them…
[i] In the sense of Italian culture, let’s say, this life, the way of life… Do you feel settled too? Do you feel Italian enough yourself? Do you have any problems?
[r] No, no, no.
[i] Do you feel only Pakistani?
[r] Yes, I also feel Pakistani, Italian and other nationalities too. But I’ve found nice people, it’s not… But I see a way forward, there are also bad people, people, chaos…
[i] Of course. And let’s say, the Pakistani community, you and the Italians here, do you meet up when there are festivals?
[r] Yes.
[i] Do you see each other?
[r] Yes, yes. Because we always call when there’s a party, like when it comes around in two or three days.
[i] Which party is coming up now?
[r] After Ramadan. They come to my house, we go to another house, we eat together, we play outside, because we play cricket.
[i] Ah, did you also play cricket?
[r] Yes, we also play football.
[i] And have you ever played cricket with any Italians?
[r] But many play, because there’s a small park near Corso Emilia… Over there there are 11 people, and I’m standing here, Italians, guys, guys, playing over there. But now I can’t see… I don’t know, because I’m always working, there’s no time to play now.
[i] Sure. So, [name], do you plan to settle here forever or do you plan to return to Pakistan one day?
[r] But I haven’t thought about it yet, because I want to work. I still don’t know when I’ll be back. Okay, maybe next year I’ll go to Pakistan, as a holiday. And twenty days, a month, then I’ll come back.
[i] Sure. And let’s say, do you have children?
[r] Yes.
[i] And have you ever thought of bringing your children here?
[r] Yes, because he’s still young. But I don’t bring him here.
[i] Why not?
[r] It’s different.
[i] How so?
[r] It’s a… it’s everything. All right, I came here as a child.
[i] Since you came here, you’ve managed to settle in and integrate, so why not them too?
[r] Yes, because he’s at school now.
[i] Would you prefer him to stay over there and study, to do what you perhaps didn’t manage to do?
[r] Well.
[i] And have they ever asked you to come and visit them here, or even to live with them forever?
[r] No, no, no, that’s not the question.
[i] They never asked you?
[r] No.
[i] And let’s say, [name], to this… let’s say, where do you and your neighbours live in the neighbourhood, how do you feel? How are you doing? Do you have any problems? Are you well?
[r] No, I don’t have any problems, because everyone who has had them in our place, they’re all good. But I haven’t heard anything until today.
[i] Of course.
[r] Because we always say hello when I go out, I see someone, I say hello, so, how are you? And good morning to everyone.
[i] And do they ask you questions, for example, about your country, just out of curiosity, like that?
[r] No, no, because we don’t talk much, just hello, good morning, how are you, fine, good work. When I see that someone is going to work, like that… And you, [name], as an immigrant, as a foreigner in this country, what advice can you give to these girls and young women who come here? What can you tell them? Any advice on how to live well, how to integrate here? To live in harmony…
[r] When, for the best, someone can’t find work, what do you do? It’s difficult. Without work, yes, everything is difficult.
[i] Of course.
[r] Well, when there is work, you gradually find everything.
[i] Of course.
[r] But without work, even one day is difficult.
[i] True. And let’s hope for the best anyway. I thank you, thank you for your time and I wish you good luck.
[r] Thank you very much.