SU_T_41

[i] Hi [name]!
[r] Hi!
[i] How are you?
[r] Fine!
[i] Can you tell us who [name] is?
[r] [name] is a guy who came from Gambia. He’s been here in Italy since 2014.
[i] Let’s say, since you’ve been in Italy, what have you managed to do, let’s say, since 2014 now?
[r] I’ve done a few things. First, when I arrived, I enrolled in school. I did school, I got to the eighth grade. After that I did a cooking course. After the cooking course I did an internship in a diner for a few months. After that I started working in another part of the city, which is a project in Portapalazzo. And there are the young asylum seekers, who take care of recycling. And they help with the undifferentiated waste collection.
[i] Yes, it’s a nice project, I saw it. I saw girls who offer, let’s say, their help voluntarily. Let’s say, are you a refugee?
[r] Yes.
[i] How did you arrive in Italy?
[r] I arrived in Italy from Libya.
[i] By boarding?
[r] By boat, yes.
[i] And how was this journey? How did you face it?
[r] Well, as we all know, it’s a terrible journey, so to speak, because it’s never easy to make that journey. First, when you leave your country of origin, you make the journey to Libya. Libya, as we all know, is a country in danger, so to speak. So staying there or passing through is not easy, because every day you can die or you can live.
[i] What made you decide to face this dangerous journey, where you risk your life?
[r] There are many reasons why I decided to make this journey. Well, I’d rather not go into exactly why I came here.
[i] We can understand that whatever the reason, it will be very, very hard and difficult, because you have to face the sea and we know what can happen, let’s say, in the middle of the sea. I mean, you risk your life. And, let’s say, when you first arrived here in Italy, how did you find this country, this reality?
[r] Well, the first few months were a bit difficult, because living in a new community, where you don’t understand the language well, you don’t understand the culture well, you always feel a bit different from the locals. But you always have to try to adjust yourself in whatever conditions you live in. I did it myself and now I feel good.
[i] Of course. Did you have any problems integrating, or achieving, shall we say, a peaceful integration?
[r] A little, yes. In general I think that all of us and all the immigrants who came here had some problems integrating, but it also depends on the immigrants’ desire to do so. If you want to integrate, well, you just have to try to take the right path to integrate.
[i] Of course, it just takes serious commitment on the part of those who come here too. And on the part of your hosts, on the part of the Italians, what did you expect, what did you think you’d find once you got here?
[r] Well, I thought before I could settle down and get a job. And from there you slowly change things, because it’s not that all the good things happen automatically, but so with time you change things.
[i] Of course. And let’s say, how long have you been here in Italy? Have you managed to return to your country of origin?
[r] No, I haven’t been able to go back in almost five years. I haven’t been able to go back yet, but I hope to go soon.
[i] Let’s hope so. And let’s say, is your family still in the village, are they still there?
[r] Yes, my mum, my little sister and my brothers are there. I’m sorry that my dad passed away two years ago.
[i] So another pain is losing your father and not even being able to say goodbye to him.
[r] Yes, exactly, because it happened when I didn’t have my ID with me.
[i] And how was, let’s say, this news? How did you take it? How did you experience this pain?
[r] They were very difficult days to get through. Like everyone else, if someone like my dad or my mum passes away, I feel like we all go through the same pain.
[i] No, but in the sense that you suffer without being able to reach your family, give your mum a hug to console her and also console yourself.
[r] All I could do was call her, send her my condolences and start to feel better. Because at that moment it’s all I can do.
[i] True. And let’s say, the culture in your country, have you still managed to preserve it, let’s say, here in your daily life? How do you live it?
[r] I can say yes, but as I live in a new community, so there is another culture that I have to leave in order to feel good in that new community, but yes there is another culture. Because where we come from, culture goes hand in hand with the environment, where you live. Because where we come from, many people are Muslim, so the culture is a bit mixed with Islamic culture. And here you see that many people are Christian, so Christian culture. But the difference isn’t that great, you just have to try to be a bit flexible.
[i] To find common ground, so to speak.
[r] Exactly, exactly.
[i] And respect other people’s cultures, while also preserving your own.
[r] Exactly, respect other people’s cultures. The most important thing is to respect other people’s cultures.
[i] Of course. And let’s say, what do you eat at home? Is your food African or Italian or what?
[r] I mix it up. Sometimes I eat Italian food, sometimes African. I’ve already done a cookery course, so I know Italian cuisine. I also used to work in a restaurant, so I know about that too. I only spent a few days there. Yesterday I worked there all day. But anyway, I know a bit about how to make Italian food and also food from my country. [i] And let’s say, which is the dish that you learnt quickly and that you like cooking and eating the most?
[r] Well, let’s say pasta. Well, it’s the common food in Italy that almost everyone eats, so it’s also quick and easy to prepare, so it’s the first dish I learnt to make.
[i] Sure. So, have you managed to introduce your culture, or rather, your food to Italians?
[r] Yes, yes. Also friends from the team where I play football, friends from work. Every now and then I invite them to my house, we cook food from my country. ‘Domoda’ ‘il chepche’, we eat them and they like them a lot. Every now and then they call me and say look, we do the shopping and come to your house and you cook your country’s food. And we ate together at Bora’s the other time. And they always call, because I didn’t always have time to stay at home and eat with them, so we organise it as much as we can.
[i] Of course. So, let’s say, have you also managed to make friends with the Italians? Have you also managed to settle in well at work with your colleagues? Do you have any problems? Don’t you feel, let’s say, isolated?
[r] No, no. Because when we started that project I told you about before, I was one of the first to arrive there two years ago and I’m still with them. In fact, I’d say I’m the last one, I’m the only one who’s been there until now with those of us who arrived together. So all the ones before, the ones who arrived before me, have all left. Because the project started as a voluntary one, so some people have to work for four years, but me too. But I always looked for a way to stay with them, to help them. Until now, I no longer volunteer there, because they gave me a contract. Because now the project has taken off, so I continue to work with them.
[i] And when you were doing this work, let’s call it that, even if it was voluntary, how did you feel when you were helping others?
[r] Well, it was a job, let’s say, part of the integration, because the work I do there helps the Italian communities, especially those who come to collect the food we recover. They are Italian, foreign communities, so there too it has given me many opportunities to meet people. And I also feel useful in helping other people, if I don’t have much to give, but giving my time, my energy, I feel very useful doing that. So I’ve tried to keep going.
[i] Of course, you feel like you’re doing something as a good citizen, regardless of whether you’re Italian or not.
[r] No, because when I started I realised that, look, I can do something, even if I’m an asylum seeker, an immigrant. So when that project arrived and I went, I saw the project, it’s great because it helps people, it helps the environment, because the food that we recover, a lot, let’s say, 90% of that food goes to be thrown away in the Mondessia bin. So when we arrived, every day we saved a lot of food, about 200 miles of fruit and vegetables.
[i] That’s a lot.
[r] It’s still good to eat, so we give it to people. They take it, they’re happy.
[i] Of course. Let’s say [name], as an immigrant, as a refugee, how do you see this mass of immigration, of these girls who come on the boats, how do you see this and what can you advise these girls?
[r] Yes, it’s not easy, because we already know that there are still a lot of these young girls in Libya or in neighbouring countries, arriving in Europe. This journey is not easy, but there is not much we can do, because many of these young people are forced to make this journey. But the advice I can give is that if we look for a way to stay in our country, to do what we can do, it would be very important. Because to make this journey, seeing that so many young girls have lost their lives in the middle of the sea, it is always a shame to see the people who arrive. Maybe some of them don’t have this dream of arriving here or risking their whole life at sea, perhaps because they think that if they arrive in Europe they will find a better life. But even in Europe now it’s not like before, let’s say, because even here now there are many poor people who still suffer to live. But even for us, if we arrive here, sometimes it’s difficult to integrate, sometimes it’s not easy to find work, it’s not easy to feel good.
[i] Of course, it’s still hard.
[r] It’s hard, it’s still hard. The whole process isn’t easy, it’s all hard, nothing is easy. You also have to be very patient because, for example, in Italy you have to wait two years to do your first commission. So between these two years you have to…
[i] How do you live in these two years? How can you live if you don’t have documents, you don’t have a job?
[r] In fact that moment is the hardest in almost all of life, because for me these two years are the hardest of my life. Because sitting at home, I only go to school two hours a day, not every week, maybe twice a week or three times a week, you only do two hours at school. The rest of the time you either sit at home or you go out, you have nothing to do because if you haven’t found a job you spend all your time in the park, because you can’t stay at home for two years. So you go out on the street, you go out in the park, but in the end it’s also a lot better to do the illegal thing in these parks, because once you go and sit there you see what other people are doing and maybe at a certain point you also get into doing something.
[i] Because you see no hope, I have no job, I have nothing, how can I live?
[r] Because even if you want to study these days, maybe you can, but even here there are other courses that you can’t do if you’re not legal, you have to have the right documents.
[i] So you always feel that there’s an obstacle between you and what you want to achieve.
[r] Exactly, whether it’s work or study, there’s always an obstacle to getting where you want to go.
[i] Let’s say [name], what do you dream of in the future? What are your goals?
[r] I see myself as a young man, there are many. The first goal is to study well and then we’ll see what life brings. I always dream of being well, being with my family, and maybe after I study well I’ll think about returning to my country. It’s also possible, because to have true happiness, one cannot have true happiness in someone else’s country. Everyone wants to be happy in their country of origin, but if you see someone leave their country of origin to be a migrant in another country, perhaps there is some reason that pushed them to leave. I feel happier in my country of origin because there I see my family every day, I see my friends, I see everyone I grew up with, friends, old friends. And so I find more happiness there, but in Italy let’s say I’m not bad.
[i] We’re always missing something.
[r] You always feel that there’s something missing.
[i] You feel incomplete.
[r] Exactly.
[i] I wish you a good future and all the best. Thank you for answering my questions. Thank you.
[r] Thank you very much.