Country of origin: sudan
Year of settlement: 2013
Age on arrival: 27
City: turin
Gender: male
Language of the interview: Italian
[i] Hi [name]
[r] Hi.
[i] How are you?
[r] Fine!
[i] Would you like to introduce yourself and tell us who you are?
[r] My name is [name].
[i] Nice to meet you.
[r] Likewise.
[i] How old are you [name]?
[r] I’m 32 years old.
[i] Where are you from?
[r] Sudan.
[i] Which country? Which city?
[r] I practically came from a village called Hidjiridie, but it no longer exists.
[i] Why?
[r] Because it was destroyed by the war in Darfur. Now I have another town called Foro Burunga, a bit closer. It’s a bit of a city, mine was a village, now it’s a small city.
[i] How many years have you been in Italy?
[r] 6 years.
[i] Why did you choose Italy?
[r] I was on a road and wanted to keep going, then I found some work and that’s why I’m still here.
[i] So you mean you’re happy here?
[r] Well, not happy but not bad either, so it’s enough.
[i] Enough.
[r] Yes.
[i] What was your first day here in Italy like? In Turin to be precise?
[r] The first day here in Italy or the first day here in Turin. Because they’re two different things. The first day in Italy, I said to myself I’ve arrived in a different world, a peaceful world, a world where everyone lives well, but after a few days I saw things change. Like what I’d been through over there, but those were my first days in Italy, in the very south of Italy, in Lampedusa.
[i] So you went from Sudan to Lampedusa?
[r] Yes
[i] So your first experience was in Lampedusa?
[r] Yes
[i] And then?
[r] And then from Lampedusa to Savona in the north, I spent almost 6 months in Savona, I worked for the municipality, I did visits to schools. Or I fixed water pipes as a plumber, I worked for almost 6 months. And then… From there… There was a little bit… racist. It wasn’t something… Because there were some colleagues… who are a bit racist. One day it happened… we were arguing with some people, one is good and two are racist, and the good one was the boss and the racist ones were workers, they were talking because I didn’t understand Italian very well when I was there, they started arguing with each other, you can’t understand everything but you hear a bad word then I asked why they were arguing, immediately she jumped to conclusions, surely they were saying ‘you arrived as soon as you had work and we have some brothers and friends at home we don’t work and you are working’
[i] So they accused you of having arrived and stolen work from others?
[r] Yes, that. And then from that day on I said if I work, because I don’t want to steal anyone’s job, I immediately asked to be fired. So from there I’m incensed. And… There’s another friend who… She was in… In Denmark, what’s it called?
[i] In Denmark she was?
[r] Yes. And they called the capital Copenhagen.
[i] Ah, Copenhagen.
[r] It was Copenhagen. She said come here. Let’s work together. Because she… From here… She was… Piedmontese. She’s not from Piedmont, but she’s from Liguria. But she works and lives there, she told me to come and we’ll work together in a restaurant, she gave me her phone number, all that, then I went to a German town, between Germany and Denmark, I lost the number but then the phone died, I didn’t have a charger
[i] Unfortunately you were unlucky!
[r] Then no. I made it. From there they took me in, I didn’t even have any documents, they asked me how did you manage to get here? I said I came by train, I got as far as here, how did I manage to get here without documents? I said I took the ticket and got as far as here, they asked where do you want to go? I said Denmark, they asked without documents? I said yes. They said I’m sorry you got here but we can’t let you go all the way to Denmark. They asked me do you want to stay here in Germany? You apply for asylum or you go back to Italy.
[i] But how did you get here in Italy?
[r] I arrived in Italy by boat.
[i] Like the refugees?
[r] Like the refugees. I arrived by boat with the refugees and…
[i] Was there a war in Sudan at that time?
[r] Yes, there was a war in Sudan and it never ended, there is still a war. I have been growing up in Sudan since I was born and there is still a war. There is not a day without war or a year or a month that I have not heard of one
[i] And is your family in Sudan?
[i] Yes, my family is not in Sudan but in a refugee camp in Chad, I have a younger brother. He now lives in the city I mentioned before. My parents are still in the camp.
[i] Did you see them after you arrived in Italy? Did you manage to return to your country?
[r] Yes, we went back to Chad last year (2018). I went there and saw them, but it’s still not a pleasant place. There are still weapons everywhere. If someone isn’t used to it, for example, they can’t live there. Because you’re always hearing gunshots here and there. At home there are weapons, so…
[i] Do you always live in fear and terror?
[r] With fear, as soon as you hear something you go out with your gun so for someone who is not used to it it’s difficult
[i] Are you always under attack?
[r] Yes, you can’t live like that. I was there for 20 days, 3 weeks, I didn’t like those 3 weeks and I came back straight away.
[i] Never to Sudan, you never went back?
[r] I never went back to Sudan
[i] You can’t?
[r] Not at the moment I can’t
[i] And what work do you do here in Turin?
[r] Here in Turin I work as a labourer in a roadworks company, that’s where I work.
[i] Is it a good job?
[r] Yes, but tiring.
[i] I can imagine. And here in Turin, how do you live your life, what is Turin like for you?
[r] That’s a good question. How is Turin for me? I don’t know how to answer that. I certainly don’t like it because I go to work and then I go home, and from home to work. I feel like a prisoner. I don’t feel very comfortable in Turin, but I have to stay because I’m working. So if I find something better, I’ll definitely leave Turin.
[i] So there’s a possibility you’ll change city? If you manage to find something better?
[r] Of course. But you know that Turin is one of the most beautiful cities in Italy, maybe if I change I’ll change the country not the city.
[i] So the country Turin is a really beautiful city, there’s no doubt about that?
[r] Changing city and staying in Italy, no doubt about it. I prefer to stay in Turin, but if I change country I might change Italy.
[i] How is Sudanese culture here, how do you experience it in everyday life? How do you experience it at home?
[r] The way I lived it in Sudan is definitely not here, there with the war etc., but in my heart I feel the peacefulness, here the culture is different from there.
[i] At home, the food, the music you listen to at home, are you more Sudanese or do you live the Italian way?
[r] Here I live like an Italian, yes, because I don’t listen to Sudanese music, so if I listen to music I prefer to listen to Italian music. I always eat Italian food, it’s not always like that but some days I might eat Sudanese food, but I eat Italian food more.
[i] Do you have a relationship with the Sudanese community in Turin? Is there a place where you meet?
[r] Of course. We meet… A few days maybe we rent a room, and then we all meet, and we greet each other and we make a meal of our own, for example. And on those days there is definitely no Italian food, but there is always our food. And we create it, and finish it there, but it’s not all like that. Or in the garden, even if the weather is a bit nice, we have a barbecue with the Sudanese.
[i] During these meetings, do you talk about what is happening in Sudan, about the desire to see Sudan in peace again, to return one day?
[r] Not really, because we don’t talk about Sudan. When we meet here we leave everything behind, because we’re still the same people, because over there we’re enemies and here we’re friends, brothers, because what we experience here and what they experience there, because some tribes are against others.
[i] Always Sudanese?
[r] Always Sudanese, and always us here, because there’s one city against the other city but here we’re all brothers, so we forget everything that’s happening in Sudan
[i] So in Sudan there are two major rival cities, two tribes, there’s war between them but the same people from the same city here in Italy are friends.
[r] Of course we’re brothers here, not just friends
[i] So here you’re just Sudanese
[r] Just Sudanese, we don’t think about anyone else
[i] It’s a beautiful thing, that here you’ve managed to find the peace that you lack in your country of origin.
[r] That’s right
[i] That’s a good thing . Tell me, how did you learn Italian?
[r] I studied, but I still haven’t learnt it well, but I studied a little, when I arrived I did 4 hours a day, from morning to afternoon, I did that for 6 months to learn, then I left school but I haven’t forgotten the words I learnt at school. In the end I found a job, and I always say thank you to Erica the lady, she’s the one who found me my first job
[i] So Erica, your friend, had found you a job, did you work at first?
[r] In a reception centre
[i] Through a reception centre?
[r] Yes, through the reception centre. She was the person who found me my first job. I went and spoke to the employer. And then from there the project ended. Then another good one like Erica arrived, we had an extension, then the contract ended again with the reception centre, then another one arrived and from there it really ended.
[i] So you go from one job to another depending on the project, when the project ends you go to another job?
[r] The contract wasn’t linked to the project duration, when the contract expires another one arrives but I’m not sure how the project worked.
[i] Of course
[r] The first time was Erica. Then slowly slowly other jobs other people arrived, first it was Erica then she left then other people then the contract ended.
[i] So one manager leaves and another arrives but you’ve always had a job
[r] No, before that I hadn’t worked yet, I hadn’t worked on the project with Erica, but we went there first, we went to have a look, after a month another one arrived and then she took me back to the same place to ask about this job, this company. And then we came back. Then we stayed maybe another month or so. And then she left too. Then another one arrived.
[i] And so on.
[r] And so on.
[i] How do you see Turin now compared to when you arrived 6 years ago? Or even Italy in general but Turin in particular because you live here? What has changed.
[r] What has changed in the city or in my life
[i] Not only your life, but the city and its relationship with non-EU citizens, especially African refugees. How do you see this relationship?
[r] I don’t know much about Turin because I don’t go out much, I don’t do much travelling. It’s still six months, six years ago, but I don’t travel much. And I don’t know what they’re doing.
[i] So you live on your own but you don’t have many relationships with people because you work a lot?
[r] Yes, because I work at home, from home it’s there. Saturdays and Sundays I’m always at home. If I go out, maybe if we have a meeting with the Sudanese, yes, then I go. Because we have a group, if there’s a meeting we always call each other, then we meet up with whoever we can.
[i] What do you think is missing, what would you like to have here in Turin or even in Italy? Like a non-EU citizen, like a refugee.
[r] What I like, for sure, doesn’t go down well and maybe doesn’t even exist, I don’t know. I like everyone, I like the way people are, everyone is united and we are a colourful bunch. There are some Italians who, let’s say, have a very bad relationship. The heart, we want to open our hearts together and live together. This is what I like, but I see that in Italy, I don’t know, but in Turin I see that they are still a bit closed. Still closed, it’s not a bit but they are still closed, very closed.
[i] And what message do you want to give to the people of Turin?
[r] The message I can give, first I’d like to thank them for opening the door to us. But they’ve closed it on one side, I’d like to ask them if they can open them all, we can live together, let’s all make Turin our city, and let’s all move it forward together. We’re all united because we’re here, we can’t, let’s say, we Turinese take it as our city, as our country. We certainly protect it from anything. Now if something comes along, I don’t know, something a bit bad, we certainly don’t leave it alone. Surely if there is something bad, we all suffer. If there is something good, we all benefit. This is what I like about Turin.
[i] It’s a beautiful thing, we live here in Turin, so we have to love it, for better or for worse, and protect it.
[r] Of course, of course.
[i] And to these young African guys who come here, what can you say to them?
[r] What I can tell them is that these young people shouldn’t pay attention to what they see on the television or on the streets, because there are certain streets where newcomers get a bad image. So I tell those who have just arrived, don’t pay attention to what those who have been here longer say. Always think about your work and always think about protecting this city and always think well of those who already live here, respect everyone and everyone will be fine.
[i] Thank you [name] and thank you very much for answering our questions.
[r] Thank you.