SU_T_31

[i] Hi [name]
[r] Hi
[i] How are you?
[r] Fine, thank you.
[i] Would you like to introduce yourself and tell us who you are?
[r] My name is [name] and I’m from Syria. I’ve been living in Turin for about 3 and a half years. I live with my boyfriend, I’m studying law and I’m a human rights activist.
[i] Which city did you live in in Syria?
[r] Damascus, the capital.
[i] So you came from Damascus to Turin 3 and a half years ago.
[r] No, I went to Istanbul a month and a half earlier because there isn’t an Italian embassy in Syria, and I had to go to Istanbul to apply for a visa there.
[i] And when you arrived in Turin, what did you think of the city?
[r] A beautiful city. I’ve been to other Italian cities, but so far Turin is my favourite. At first I had a few problems because I didn’t speak Italian, I only knew two or three words. And then, immediately after my arrival, I enrolled in two Italian language courses so that I could learn the language as soon as possible.
[i] And have you managed to learn Italian?
[r] I would say yes.
[i] I can hear that. And besides that, what are you doing in Turin?
[r] Besides that, I’m working with an international NGO called ‘Mondo Mlal’ project, I do training in schools in the Cuneo area. I talk to students about topics that are not usually addressed in schools. For example, gender equality, social inequality, immigration in general and these issues here.
[i] And how do you find this experience?
[r] It’s wonderful, I really like it, but in some cases it’s difficult, sometimes it even gets heavy.
[i] Why?
[r] Because unfortunately this generation is a bit… some of them are a bit close-minded, so when we talk to them about gender equality for example, the first thing that comes out in the class is ‘women should stay at home to cook and clean’. Or when we talk about immigration they say ‘no, but illegal immigrants have no rights, they only have weapons’. Migrants come to us to steal our homes, our jobs and things like that. So when I’m in a class like that I feel uncomfortable and sometimes I don’t feel well, even psychologically I feel bad. Because this generation, thinking that they will grow up to become the future leaders of our country, I feel bad. Because even growing up they have all this god knows what inside them. What do we expect in the future?
[i] Now that I hear you say ‘our country’ Do you feel part of this country? Do you feel Italian?
[r] Yes and no
[i] How come?
[r] This is a difficult topic to address, even for me, that is, for me and myself. Because I don’t know whether to consider myself Syrian or Italian. When I’m with Italians I’m different, for them I’m Syrian. When I’m with Syrians I’m different too, for them I’m almost Italian. On paper I’m neither Syrian nor Italian, it’s all a mixture, I’m a Syrian refugee in Italy. So it’s a difficult topic for me.
[i] Does this confuse you?
[r] Yes. And how do you plan to solve it? What do you have to do? What do you need to have a fixed identity?
[r] On paper I need a citizenship or a residence permit without any limitations. Because for example a few months ago I was in Brussels for a training course on immigration in the European Union. All the other participants were Italian, or two of them were Spanish. At the end of the last day I was at the European Commission and the last meeting was with an Italian commissioner. At the end of the meeting I approached him and told him a little about my work, my studies and so on. He was nice, let’s go ahead. Then I asked him to give me some advice on how to get a job in the European Commission because I really like it there. And during these days they told us about lots of new projects they are working on. I also feel the need to be part of these projects. He gave me a dirty look and said ‘but you’re not Italian’ I told him I don’t have Italian citizenship yet. And he said to me ‘but don’t you know that for 99% of the jobs in the European Commission you need to have European citizenship?’ I looked at him straight away, I don’t know why I said to him ‘but don’t you know that this is a violation of article 21 of the Nice charter. That you can’t discriminate against people based on their race or nationality or political opinion or whatever’? I left there and cried for 2 hours in front of the commission, because all the participants who were with me had done the same course as me, some of them are studying law, others languages, journalism and so on. Some have experience, others don’t, but more or less we’re all at the same level. They can easily do this job, I can’t do it. Because I don’t have European citizenship.
[i] So you feel discriminated against?
[r] I felt bad, very bad
[i] So you mean that it’s not just a question of skills, but that European citizenship is also required?
[r] Yes. First of all, you have to respect European laws in all European countries, and you also have to have… I mean, I was discriminated against by a commissioner.
[i] So by those who represent the law?
[r] Yes
[i] And does this make you feel uncomfortable?
[r] Yes, of course
[i] And what can you say to this future generation?
[r] Inform them before speaking. When you read an article, when you see a photo, anything on your mobile phone, before opening your mouth, go and get informed.
[i] And in your opinion, is this the duty of those who are more than themselves?
[r] Of parents, obviously, because having this contact with their children for most of the day, they also influence what their children think and how they think. Then obviously also in schools. I went to some classes where the teachers were already working with their students and already discussing these issues with them. And then I found a difference when I entered a class where a teacher asked a student who was laughing when he was told that immigrants come to steal our houses. This is not good. The role of the teacher is not only to teach his subject but also to help this generation grow up properly. Because the role of parents at home is not enough. Even outside the home, in schools, there should be this figure who is supposed to be the teacher, but in most classrooms, this figure doesn’t exist.
[i] So, do you think society can have a negative or positive influence on these kids, on this generation?
[r] Yes, very much so. I’ll give you a small example. We were talking about gender equality in a class. I drew two little faces, a male and a female, and I gave the children cards with words written on them, such as career, lawyer, politician, teacher, tears, and so on. Then I asked the students to put the cards where they wanted. One of the students took the piece of paper with the word ‘career’ written on it and put it on the side of the male figure. And then when I asked him why he decided to put this piece of paper there, he replied that it’s easier for men to have a career. Women still have problems with the law, they can’t have a career, they risk other things. So the student was also convinced that society and the laws have this impact. But living in this society he had the same idea.
[i] So in a sense he adopted them?
[r] Exactly, even without thinking about it or reflecting on it by himself, he went and put the career sheet on the drawing of the man. Even if he wasn’t 100% convinced, he told me that women should also have the right to have a career if they want to. But without thinking about it, he went and put us on the side of the man. And here too, society plays a very important role.
[i] And in Turin, did you ever have any problems integrating?
[r] With Italians or with Syrians?
[i] Let’s start with the Italians. How did you fit into this society? How do you feel at ease? Since when you speak you say ‘my country our country’ so you consider Italy your country. How is your life in this country? How do you live here?
[r] First of all, I consider Italy my country. Because I live here now, in my country Syria there is a war, I can’t go back there. I no longer have a house, I no longer have a job, I have nothing there. Here in Italy I have started to build my future, I have started to build a life for myself. So now it has become my country. When I first arrived in Italy I didn’t speak Italian and I had a bit of trouble getting in touch with Italian society, so to speak. But when I started learning Italian I got a bit more involved in the work environment. And I got on well. Another thing that helped me a lot was that I met a lot of good people who are also sensitive to the issue of immigration. Unlike some of my other friends, I didn’t experience any racial discrimination when I first arrived here.
[i] To these young men and women who come here, who perhaps don’t have a clear idea of what they want, of what awaits them here. How do you see this? What could you say to them?
[r] If you want to commit to learning the language, integrating, and becoming an active part of this society, then come. If not, it will be a problem, both for you and for society and for everyone.
[i] So the key word will be integration in the right way.
[r] More inclusion than integration
[i] And on the part of the Italians?
[r] As far as the Italians are concerned, I would say be informed. Don’t listen to, that is, don’t take what you hear from a government that doesn’t think the same way as everyone else. Go and get information to understand what is really happening. Form your own opinion without relying on others. And then we will have a healthy society.
[i] Of course, and as an immigrant what is lacking here in Italy and in Turin specifically for immigrants?
[r] At what level?
[i] At the social level, practices, official documents, these places here …
[r] On a social level, I would say looking for new methods to include everyone, including new arrivals, in society. Because not everyone, for example, is part of arts immigrants, a wonderful reality in Turin where we all meet twice a month, we dance, we sing, we even recite poetry. And it’s just Italians and foreigners of all nationalities together. It’s wonderful to be able to spend time together and get to know each other. But that’s not enough, we also need to do something at the highest level to include everyone and allow them to be part of this society, at least in terms of the laws. For example, I also do training on the Italian constitution in schools. I really like the Italian constitution, it’s one of the best in the world. The problem is that it is not fully respected. Sometimes it is not even respected by those who should respect it, the government, and this is a problem. It is important to have laws that do not discriminate against people, laws that protect people in general. But it is also important to respect these laws.
[i] Of course, and Syrian culture, how do you experience it here?
[r] Hardly.
[i] Why?
[r] Because I work and most of my jobs are with Italians. So I don’t have this contact with Syrian society in Turin. Once in a while, once a month, twice a month, if there are events and we meet there. But apart from that, even at home we’re all a bit busy, everyone has their own job, everyone has their own commitments. We can’t always find time to get together as Syrians, for example, to talk about culture, so it’s a bit difficult.
[i] For example, the food.
[r] Yes.
[i] What do you eat? The food, let’s say, the music, at home at least, if you can’t experience it with the Syrian community in Turin, but at least, let’s say, at home, let’s say, with the family.
[r] At home we don’t always cook much, only mum cooks Syrian food. Because I, even working all day, don’t always have time to come home to eat. When I get home in the evening, I don’t always find Syrian food, sometimes I find food, I don’t know, French, Italian, food from all over the world. Because even though I grew up in Syria, my father grew up in Italy and then returned to Syria when he was 17, he still has this Italian culture with him, even my grandmother, for example, used to cook Italian dishes in Syria. I also grew up eating Italian food. Here in Turin, when I go home to eat, if there is Syrian food, great, if there is Italian food, great, the important thing is to find something to eat.
[i] It depends on what’s available that day. So let’s say you experienced part of Italian culture in Syria through your father?
[r] Yes, but not much, because I knew that this thing is different. Not all my friends, for example, eat Italian food at home. If they want to eat Italian food, they go to an Italian restaurant. For me, I felt something different, but I didn’t understand what it was. So I felt different there too, but I didn’t know why.
[i] And what dreams do you have that you want to achieve? What are your goals?
[r] You said the right word, ‘goals’. I don’t like to call them dreams because for me a dream is something that remains far away. I might get there, I might not. I call them goals, and my goal is to become a member of the European Parliament. And then maybe even make it to the Italian Parliament.
[i] Let’s hope for the best, you just have to work hard.
[r] Of course.
[i] Do you think you’ll ever go back to Syria?
[r] Maybe.
[i] Do you miss it?
[r] A lot. I hope to go back, but as long as this government is in power in Syria I can’t go back because I have political problems, the situation is a bit complicated.
[i] And how is the current situation in Syria? Do you still have relatives there?
[r] Yes, my grandparents, uncles, all still in Syria, all in Damascus.
[i] So you haven’t seen them for a long time.
[r] Not since I arrived in Italy.
[i] And how do you feel about this part of your life, the fact that you can’t go back to your country of origin where you were born and raised?
[i] It’s very difficult, really very difficult. I always say that for me Syria is my mother. I mean I grew up there, all my memories are there, I went to school there, my friends, my relatives. I had my first life in Syria. So for me Italy is like a mother, I could call her my aunt because I had another life here too. And I like living here. I hope one day to be able to return to Syria, I don’t know if I can do it. But I really hope I can do it, to be able to see my relatives, my friends.
[i] The land where you grew up.
[r] Never say never.
[i] Do you think that Italy will be able to find a solution to what is happening with the immigrants, the right way to integrate them and how people here can live peacefully without problems? Do you think Italy will be able to achieve this goal in the future? Maybe not now but in the future, what do you think?
[r] I hope so. All we need to do is make an effort and love one another, not see those who are different as enemies, and anything could happen. One day I hope to live in a healthy society, where we all love one another and where everyone is respected. Where everyone has the same rights and the same duties, and no one is discriminated against for any reason. It would be a paradise.
[i] Thank you [name], thank you for answering my questions.
[r] Thank you.
[i] I wish you a good future.
[r] Thank you.