SU_T_24

[i] Good evening, can you introduce yourself please?
[r] My name is [name], I am Malian. I am 21 years old.
[i] What were you doing in Mali?
[a] I studied. I dropped out of secondary school there. Because it was a bit hard. I wasn’t making progress with my studies. When the family doesn’t have the means to pay, it’s difficult to make progress. So I dropped out of secondary school, in year 9.
[i] First I wanted to talk about childhood. Which town in Mali were you born in?
[r] I’m from Kayes but I was born in Bamako, in Calabancroix. My village is called Bangassi, it’s 6km from Kayes. I was born in Bamako and I grew up there with my family.
[i] So you have the whole family, your dad, your mum, they’re all alive?
[r] Yes, my mum is alive. But my dad isn’t, I’m sorry. I grew up with my mum and my little sister.
[i] There are only two of you in the family?
[r] No, there are five of us with my aunt, my stepmother, my dad’s second wife and her three children.
[i] So, after school, when you were in Mali, what else did you do? Did you work or do you play any sports?
[r] Yes, you know, football is the dream of all African youth or all youth in the world. I played football with friends in the neighbourhood and then I also did business with the dads. During the rainy season, I go to the village to work the land with my uncles and the family’s remaining labourers. Because we’re on holiday at that time, it’s not quiet, so I go to the village.
[i] How long did you do these activities for?
[a] Almost all through my childhood. Throughout my childhood, I did this for about 10 or 11 years. But when I grew up a bit, I started to refuse to go to the village. I’m very interested in business because I love it too much.
[i] Why did you prefer business to continuing your studies?
[r] No, I didn’t like business more than studying. Studying, at certain levels, when you can’t afford the tuition fees, it’s not easy to go to school. You’re always the first to drop out of school. Then it’s going to get tough for you and the parents. The state schools over there are always on strike. Even where we are today, the state schools are on strike. The authorities and the elite have no interest in education because their children study elsewhere, outside the country. We who are here, the children of farmers, the children of the poor, have suffered a lot to study. It’s not easy. Private schools take care of education when your parents can’t afford to pay. When they can’t afford to pay, you’re going to stay that way without going to school. So you don’t go to school. You have to do something or you’re going to become a criminal, a vagabond or whatever. I didn’t like that. I’d rather go into business with Dad and his friends.
[i] And this business, how long did you do this activity for?
[r] When I started to know the money well, I did this on the side for 13 or 15 years. Since I don’t do much, I’m in the shop, I can count, I take care of the cash registers.
[i] And you did this retail activity until what year?
[r] I was born in 99, at the end of 99. I did this until almost 2006. Since I was a child, I’ve been in the shop there since 2008. In 2009, I started doing this until 2012.
[i] What did you do after 2012? Why did you leave the business?
[r] I didn’t leave the business, but it was on the verge of bankruptcy for the fathers. So he was forced to leave Abou Mako and take his business to other parts of Mali. He started doing that in 2010. Because he was in trouble, in real trouble. So he was forced to leave Bamako and take his business to other parts of Mali. Each time, he travelled to Ségou, towards Mopti there. So, at that point, he was bankrupt. In 2012, we had nothing to sell in Bamako so I gave up. I just stayed there doing nothing. I often travelled with him. Often I stayed at home. I travelled to Ségou several times. That’s one of the reasons why I love him so much.
[i] I’d like to know when you left Mali?
[r] I left Mali in 2013. I left Mali in 2013 after the coup d’état and everything that happened there. I left in 2013.
[i] When you left Mali, what did you do? Where did you go?
[r] When I left Mali, I was in Algeria. There, you don’t have a choice. You do what you can to survive. To be able to live honestly. So you don’t want to turn to crime. Whatever work you can get, you do it. So I did what everyone else who went there did, like me.
[i] When you tell me that you did whatever you earned, what kind of work did you do, for example? What kind of work did you do and what kind of work did you do?
[r] I work on the tracks, with machines that we operate. I also work in the garden. In the garden of debts, we take in the debts, we put them in bags, we load them into the car to come and load them at the boss’s house. You see, we did all that stuff over there.
[i] You did that until what year?
[r] From 2013 until 2015, around 2016. And I left there in Algeria towards the end of 2015 to go to Libya.
[i] And when you arrived in Libya, did you stay there or not?
[r] Yes, I lasted there for a while too. I arrived there in 2016 and then I left in 2017. I was there for almost a year or more.
[i] What did you do in Libya, did you work?
[r] Yes, we often worked. When there was no trouble, we worked. But when there was trouble too, there was no work because no one wanted to go and argue with the Arabs and their guns over there.
[i] When did you arrive here in Italy?
[a] I arrived here in 2017. I hope that in June 2017, I arrived here in Palermo.
[i] When did you arrive in Palermo?
[a] Yes, in June 2017, we arrived in Palermo and then we were transferred from Palermo to Turin here. So far, I have been living here in Turin. So far.
[i] And when you arrived here in Turin, how did the first procedure go?
[r] Yes, it wasn’t easy because I was new here, far from my parents and friends. So you have to make an effort to make new friends. You have to make an effort to get used to the new culture, which is Italian culture. And you have to make an effort to adapt to people as quickly as possible, to understand what people want. Especially when you’re new to a country where you don’t understand the language, it’s a bit difficult. That was the point that was a bit difficult for me, the language.
[i] Did you look for a solution to that problem?
[r] Yes, of course, since they offered me the remedy straight away. They gave me the opportunity to go to school. So I liked it, since I started to learn the language. And the faster I understand how the culture exists, if I can put it that way, how society goes. So with school, I learned a lot of things. And now, thank God, I’m adapting to the system. Even if there’s still a lot to learn, thank God it’s not like the first one.
[i] And now, what are you doing? Are you studying or working?
[r] No, I’m not working first, I’m studying. I’d like to understand the language, to express myself in Italian. It’s more interesting for me, because when you’re in a country, the first thing is to be able to speak their language, to be able to understand what they’re saying. And with that, you can walk around safely, you can meet people, you can look for new friends. With that, when you get a job one day, it won’t be difficult. But when you don’t understand the language, you get a job. It’s a bit difficult because it’s not easy to make the boss understand. So I’d like to continue my studies first. And then we’ll see, the job, that’s what we’re here for. Everyone wants to work, if you don’t work, you’re going to steal. So we don’t want to steal, we want to work honestly. Getting things honestly is what everyone wants. So we also want it that way.
[i] And how do you find it here in Italy?
[r] I feel better, I feel better, I feel better. Because I feel good. Because the luck that I missed in my country, I had that luck here, for free, which is to go to school, learn the language, understand how the world works. I missed that chance at home, but here I had it, for free. So I thank you, I would like to take this opportunity to do something about it.
[i] Can you tell me what your goals in life are? What do you dream of doing in life? Today you study, but what do you want to do tomorrow? What job would you like to do in your life?
[r] So I would like to go into business, which is a job that I really like. But in my dreams, I have a big dream. I want to change the system of African or Malian elites. I want to change the system of government. I want the leaders to open their eyes and see how the world works. Because with this demagogic system that we can say is democracy, when it is not, it is the demagogue who has tired us, all of us young Africans. Because when you see here in Italy, there are lots of Africans here, very young even, who should currently be at school studying, doing something for the country, but they’re all here because they haven’t seen the point. The elites have closed the door and opened the big door for their children, who study outside the country and don’t give a damn about others. They manipulate us, so to speak, to get what they want. They lie to us, they swindle us, it can’t go on. So I dreamed of changing that and of each of us doing our best for Africa. Because everyone is developed except Africa, even though they say Africa is the most Russian continent in the world. Africa is poor, until now, so change is needed.
[i] I would like to know what message the Italian people gave you when they welcomed you here and gave you what you were missing in your country?
[r] Before that, I thanked the Italian people, because they saved me from the sea. They welcomed us here with open arms, but there are still many things to be done. Because a foreigner in a country without documents has no guarantees. So we want them to give us documents and work. And also that we are here not only for the good of all the people, because we are citizens. They were kind to us, so we always want to work together. That the authorities always make our tasks easier, that we need documents and work, that’s what we lack.
[i] What message do you have for all the people who come here and do nothing?
[r] I hope that everyone who comes here has a goal. Maybe the goals are different here, but you can’t live without doing something. You can’t live without a clear conscience. Someone who doesn’t want to work wants to be a criminal. May God keep us from crime, because we want to be just. If you want to be just, then you have to be, it will help you. Let her try to change for the better and set a good goal for herself, it will help everyone.
[i] Anything else you want to tell me? Maybe I forgot to ask you.
[r] I don’t have much to say, because everyone knows about all the problems we have here. Things are difficult for immigrants in Italy. And also, the world loves me hard right now. But the message I would also like to send is to African youth and African leaders. What I want to say to the young people is that we are young. We are aware that we can bring development to the countries in Africa. That we can bring peace to Africa. So it’s up to us to try and feel, except that no one will come and do this work for us. We can see now that we are talking about a lot of things. Now the French see that there is something happening in the world. And France has manipulated 14 African countries for centuries. And they say that Africa is independent, when in fact its currency is controlled by other countries. So, if you don’t control your own economy, there is no independence. So young people need to understand that. That they should fight for Africa, so that Africa can take its strength. So that Africa can move forward, so that Africa can advance. So, this is the message that I have, that we must come together, be united as one, may God bless us.
[i] Thank you for answering our questions.
[r] Thank you very much.