SU_T_08

[i] Hello [name].
[r] Hello.
[i] Would you like to introduce yourself and tell us who you are?
[r] So I am [name], here in Italy they call me, for over 40 years now. I’ve lived in Turin since 1976, I come from Eritrea and I was born in Asmara, the capital. In short, my story is that I was, you could say, passing through, in transit from Rome. I came from Eritrea, I arrived in Sudan for reasons … bad situation the war broke out in ‘75, I was not supposed to go out, but unfortunately I had to go out. I mean from Asmara or Addis Ababa, from Ethiopia. I had to go to the United States, because of the situation I couldn’t. I had to continue my travels from Asmara, Eritrea Sudan, 11 days of walking. From Sudan, for what reason nobody knows, I got this. visa for Italy, it was lucky like that, I found a friend who could do this visa, I entered Italy, in Rome. From Rome I went to the embassy of America because I had a regular visa for the. United States, I wanted to study in New York, continue 4 years of university, for reasons of lessons, I couldn’t because. I had to stay a month in Rome. But I found some friends who lived in Busto near Milan, Busto/Varese. They proposed to me, instead of staying 2/3 weeks in Rome, ‘come to us that at least you spend a few weeks with us’ From there, I was a boy, 20 years old, I lost my mind between friends, right, left, I lost my plane ticket and visa etc.. I stayed in Italy, it’s a long story to tell, anyway from Busto we came to Turin, we had a compatriot who was lucky enough to be hired as a manager in a small factory. His name was Leo s.r.l, he made slicing machines. So he as manager and we as students/workers, my friend and I came to Turin and after a few days, not even months, I met an Italian girl. Guy head, we fell in love, after a couple of years we got married, we had the child. I became a trader, because my in-laws were peddlers.
[i] Trader in what?
[r] Of clothing, so I took over this business from them and moved on. Now for over 40 years almost 41 years I have been doing….
[i] This business as a clothing trader is it in a shop or where do you do it?
[r] I started in practice, I started at the Crocetta market in the golden years, good ones you could say they were not like they are now, after 12 years I moved to Piazza Benefica in short as a trade I have been doing this kind of business for 41 years.
[i] And 40 years ago, in Turin in a market, what was it like for a young boy of Eritrean origin to fit in?
[r] Mah, it was unthinkable, it’s a highly quoted trade, it was quoted, foreigners in short, you could count them with your fingers. There at the Crocetta market the only one was me for example. There were four or five of us, you could say in the whole of Turin. In short, I got in because… you can see that I made people like me, I went on like this.
[i] And the impact with customers, the impact with the population of Turin in the 1970s for a foreigner arriving at that time, what was it like, how was it perceived and how was it lived?
[r] Well, back then it was a strange thing to see a foreigner working as a trader, but I never had any difficulties, I fitted in easily with colleagues, with customers. Over time, with the years, I gained a bit of credibility and I’m moving on.
[i] And the link with Eritrea, it’s still there, it’s still there… since you left, isn’t it? What’s left?
[r] On my part, also on the part of all the Eritreans like me, we never left the homeland because at that time we supported the revolution, the armed struggle not from there, from here we supported, in practice materially, I don’t say physically, there were those who did it instead we were very close, still until now.
[i] What did you do? In what sense did you support those who were down there? What were your actions?
[r] So basically, the Eritreans were very organised, not only in Italy but all over the world. We had a very compact society linked with the revolutionary groups in Eritrea. So we supported by doing some I don’t know, exhibitions, also materially supporting…
[i] Photographic exhibitions?
[r] Photographic, exhibitions, to make Eritrea known to the western world.
[i] What is your role within the community in Turin?
[r] My role was… representative, not as president, but there were things to do, for example as… an activist. Now I don’t want to tell you what I was. I’ll just tell you that later, alongside this, in 1987, we also created a solidarity committee called the ‘Turin Solidarity Committee’. We were a group of Italians, as an Eritrean there was me and another girl who then left us and went to the United States. It was very organised and we did projects towards Eritrea, right after independence. The government told us what projects we could do….
[i] Which government?
[r] The Eritrean government, yes. With the aid we had here at the time, it was in ‘93, we managed to build two hospitals, two schools, wells, school materials, in short, we got busy, we had also started long-distance adoption, it didn’t go well, but we also had this speech here, this from Turin.
[i] What about your personal ties with the physical land, with Asmara with Eritrea, did you return after your departure?
[r] I came back and I also used to come back almost every year, now I haven’t been back for a few years for various reasons. I have a lot of ties, I have parents, father, mother and sisters are there. There’s no shortage of ties, even though I’ve been here for 42 years, a little … something I have.
[i] And what memories do you have of yourself as a child, as a boy in your life down in Asmara? Why this sense of community? that you explained to me, the bond that exists between Eritreans, what was it like when you were down there as a boy? How did you grow up?
[r] Basically, I grew up in a fairly ‘good’ family. Unfortunately, I didn’t have the intention, the reason to go out, if this war between Ethiopia and Eritrea hadn’t broken out, we grew up well, we also had many Italians, our neighbours were Italian, the Italian community was very close to the Eritreans, in short, it was good, I don’t say it was on a European level, but it was good for us. So I have good memories.
[i] What did your parents do in Eritrea?
[r] My father was one of the biggest grain merchants, at the level of wholesalers, he distributed to small traders, I mean, I’m the son of a merchant.
[i] So you inherited…
[r] I inherited from them, yes.
[i] And here in your daily life with your family, with your wife, etc… How do you carry on the bond with Eritrea? Do you manage to pass it on in your daily life and live it?
[r] Living it, unfortunately a small part, because now I have four children. I try to teach it to my children, but they were born and raised in Europe, they were born in Sweden because their mother lived there, during childbirth she went there but she came to Italy for me. I try to teach them also but they are in practice to all intents and purposes Italians, Europeans, they can listen to me but a small part.
[i] In what sense, excuse me, is your wife Swedish?
[r] My wife’s origin is Eritrea but she lived in Sweden. Somehow we got to know each other, it’s a bit of a long story: I was on holiday in Eritrea, by chance she came to Eritrea, we found each other at the house of the godmother who was the sister of a friend of mine who lived in Holland and so we met at a dinner, we became friends, this bond, after a year and a half, two years it matured, then I went to visit her in Sweden, she came to Turin. In short, the relationship became solid, the first child was born, we got married. After that we had four children.
[i] It is a beautiful story because you are both Eritreans, your children were born in Italy
[r] I was born in Sweden.
[i] They were born in Sweden, so they have Swedish citizenship.
[r] And Italian.
[i] And Italian. [r] Crazy…
[r] So they preferred anyway, it’s OK that my wife came for me, my children grew up, studied and are still studying, here, even though they are Swedish citizens their motherland has become Italy. They don’t want to know about leaving Italy.
[i] Do you sometimes think about going back to live in Eritrea?
[r] I think about it and if I didn’t have my family, my children, my wife, I would do it gladly, but starting from scratch would be a bit heavy for me too, because after 42 years in Italy, you can say that I grew up here even though it’s my homeland, Eritrea, I don’t know if… I can’t tell you. I can only tell you that when I was travelling I went to the United States and I toured a bit. After a week I missed Italy, to go back to Turin. It means there’s something that binds me.
[i] You are an adopted Turinese…
[r] At least that, I think that…
[i] Since you have lived in Torlino for so many years, haven’t you? How have you seen the change from a social point of view towards people, let’s say, Eritreans or in any case people who come to this city, how have you perceived it?
[r] For our part in the Eritrean community, nothing has changed, it has remained the same as it was 40 years ago, but all this flow of immigration, unfortunately, is perhaps not wanted and has changed completely. So when we arrived, we were counting foreigners with our fingers. We used to look for them even when we saw a coloured person, a black person, and after two or three months we would approach them to ask them, now it’s not like that. Even on the part of Italian society there is mistrust, at the time there wasn’t. Now with what’s happening now, they were maybe phenomena that didn’t exist, the situation has changed, I’m not saying on my part but everything in general. Me, if you ask me if I’ve ever had problems, I can’t lie, I’ve never had problems. Maybe because I’m familiar with healthy environments, maybe if I go to other places it might happen but so far I haven’t, I’ve never had any difficulties of any kind, even my children.
[i] And in the Eritrean community what do you do? How are you connected? What are the practices and things that you do together to continue to maintain this bond here?
[r] So, basically, the Eritrean community has been linked by the revolutionary group that was born in 73/72 since then. Even now, now it has become a little weak but at the time it was very active because we were supporting our struggle, that there was the armed struggle. Every Sunday we used to meet, we used to have meetings, in short we used to do our duties towards Eritrea, it’s still like that now, it hasn’t changed.
[i] Do you always meet every Sunday?
[r] Every Sunday maybe not, at the time even in 76/77 in those years we used to have meetings even on Thursdays and Sundays, then it became Sundays, now maybe once a month. And then we did the Eritrean festival in Bologna from ‘74 until ’91, every year organised by the whole Eritrean society, all those in the world, we start from Italy, Sweden, Germany, Holland America Australia they all came together over 10000 people.
[i] At this festival what was going on?
[r] At the festival there were shows, there were… for example each stand had, there was the stand of Turin of Milan of Bologna, of Rome, various stands managed to accommodate all these guests. We did that for 17 years.
[i] Wow, and today the situation in Eritrea has changed, hasn’t it? Compared to that time?
[r] Sure.
[i] And how do you perceive your connection with present-day Eritrea?
[r] The bond has not changed, from how it was before until now. Now gradually, it is three months since they made peace between Eritrea and Ethiopia, for now it has remained like that, but gradually there will be some changes.
[i] Today the young people of Eritrea, compared to when you were young, what difference do you find?
[r] The difference is that we had another type of culture, another type of mentality. The young people of today have arrived with their own way of thinking, I don’t know, I don’t have much contact with them now, but with the few I have seen, they don’t have much of a connection with us, with what we experienced….
[i] In what sense? What connection?
[r] They have a different way of thinking, I can’t tell you one by one, it’s a bit long, but maybe they had some problems coming out, as we see these phenomena, from Libya, Sudan, Chad, a bit of a massacre, a bit of…. . and so their way of thinking is different.
[i] And did you learn the Italian language down in Eritrea or here in Italy?
[r] Well, the funny thing is that I never went to the Italian school, I spoke a little, and then when I came here, being among the people, being with my ex-wife, who was Italian, even though they taught me a lot of Sicilian, because they spoke in dialect, her parents didn’t, but being here, I managed to learn something. In short, at the beginning I also enrolled at university, but I didn’t…. started work then I stopped and didn’t go on.
[i] And I’ll ask you a question, if you feel like answering: how were you welcomed into your wife’s family, a Sicilian family, as…?
[r] As a foreigner? Think, now telling it sounds like a joke, but they wanted me and welcomed me as a son, as everything In fact I, when I told you that I worked in the factory, I was invited to the home of an Eritrean friend who lived in Ponte Sassi, for lunch, a combination he was a friend of my in-laws, so they were there with their daughter, we had lunch there and then, I don’t know for what reason, in the evening they invited us to their house and then the next day they invited me to their house, you can see that they understood that their daughter was interested in me, there was a bit of. .. So from there, this friend of mine as a friend stayed a little behind, they, my father-in-law, came every day I finished work, at 5 p.m. he waited for me in front of the factory, he took me home. So gradually I made this bond with his daughter, we became engaged. But I always had in mind to leave Italy and go away to the United States, I had to continue my travels, my studies. After a year and a bit they were talking, we could say this is foreign, our daughter was not, they were looking for this bond. I said ‘how strange’, we went to friends, relatives, we talked about marriage, but I never decided to get married, but they were talking about marriage… In the end, after a year and a half, I said ‘getting married doesn’t mean dying’, since there’s a lot of connection with them, why not do it? So we got married, big Sicilian-style party, after two years we had the baby.
[i] You were even chosen by the in-laws….
[r] Yes, by the in-laws, it was very heavy, I couldn’t go out because I was now tied up. So my dreams my travels vanished, they stayed in Italy.
[i] What is a traditional wedding ceremony like?
[r] It lasts days and days, three days of celebration three days of marriage. In fact I had forgotten, for me it was strange, it is exhausting, but that is the custom, the tradition…
[i] How do they take place? I’m not from Eritrea so I don’t know how it works, how does it take place? these three days what do you do?
[r] So in the preparation there are small celebrations and then the important day would be Sunday, they make this big tent, or now there are big places, but many as a tradition they close the road and make the tent because, for example at my wedding there were 1500 people So to accommodate 1500 people both for lunch and dinner is a lot, so they block the road and make tents. The people in the area do that, they used to have societies for these occasions….
[i] The whole neighbourhood
[r] So the landlord only has to prepare the raw material and everything else is done by others.
[i] What does the landlord prepare? What is the traditional food at a typical wedding? There is music…
[r] Music, music there is in full force, that is the thing that lasts three days as I was telling you and then there… There are foods, for example, we have bread called ‘ingera’ it’s not a piadina but like a piadina Those have to prepare it for 1500 people, also the types of dishes are 5/6 types, vegetable-based and meat-based. You have to kill a lot of chickens, a lot of sheep, a lot of cows, a lot of meat. All this stuff here is the local people or relatives who make it….
[i] So the whole community helps the young couple?
[r] Yes exactly, you are passed on.
[i] How are you helped? In the organisation, from the economic point of view… I’m asking because here in Italy a wedding guest comes, sits down, eats, and leaves. Whereas for Eritrea, does the guest have a role? Does the community have a role? Because in Eritrea if I understand correctly, the whole neighbourhood participates actively, contributing with food.
[r] Maybe with food, it depends on the family, there are those who also want to be helped materially, I mean, even economically, but many, let’s say 80%, only physically…
[i] Is there something you want to tell us, something else we forgot to say?
[r] Well, I have many things to tell you, but right now I don’t… For example, I am happy with the situation between Eritrea and Ethiopia, what is happening after 20 years of massacre, we had the embargo, the country did not move forward, economically, in terms of tourism, in terms of everything. We have been very massacred by the western world, by the United States, etc.
[i] In what sense?
[r] Because Eritrea was blamed for futile reasons that did not exist, I don’t know now how to define it, I can’t say. Right now here we are making peace with Ethiopia, basically it was right for the 20 years of war, or rather embargo that we had, it was not because of Eritrea but because of someone who wanted it. This has been recognised now, we are free. On the part of the European community too, I hope it will be resolved as soon as possible, in short . .
[i] So this peace has an enormous importance for Eritrea and for the Eritrean community. .
[r] Very much so, because we have dreamt until now of this moment here and there has been no development, we too had our hands tied, even if we wanted to do something we couldn’t do anything. First 30 years of war, that ended, in ‘91 independence which lasted only 6 years, from “91 to ”98 this famous war was unleashed, it was useless, they unleashed it, someone wanted it. For 20 years we were penalised, the embargo… now everything is gradually going smoothly.
[i] Good.
[r] From our side we will see very little, our children, we hope…
[i] Do you think your children will return one day to Eritrea?
[r] My children, today as they think, no, but tomorrow never say never.
[i] Have they ever been to Eritrea?
[r] Twice, but they were small. At the beginning my second child was one year old, in fact I had two children and then after ten years they came back, now they are over 20 years old. We are a caravan, I couldn’t take them all, we are four children, husband and wife, we need a charter!
[i] Thank you, thank you very much [name].
[r] You’re welcome.