SU_P_20

[i] Welcome [name of interviewee], thank you for agreeing to take part in this interview… first of all, I’d like to ask you a question. How are you doing now? And what have you been up to today? I guess today was a bit different for you?
[r] Oh, it was a horrible day, my goodness!
[i] Can you tell us why?
[r] Honestly, I’ll tell you… This day is really very important, because it’s been about two years since I arrived in France, and only today have I been able to rent a shared room in a nice apartment, and close to both the university and my work. For the first time in my life, I feel like I’m achieving something. There you are, at last a step towards stability… Before that, I went through a very difficult period Today… it was a day… I’m not going to tell you about it! Since this morning, I haven’t stopped… between work and moving house… In short, a busy day, tiring physically and mentally… but I’m satisfied… it was a good day…
[i] Tell us about your work…
[r] My work… Well… my work, for some time now… I’ll tell you from the beginning… I was accepted for a Master’s degree at UPEC (Université Paris-Est Créteil) in Créteil. In the Master’s (1 and 2) in Public Policy, international humanitarian action course. For me, this master’s degree is a dream come true. Well, in France, when you’re a student, you’re only allowed a certain number of hours of work. At the same time, you don’t have much choice, there’s McDonald’s or other jobs of the same kind… So I decided to work at Carrefour. I applied and now I work there on Saturdays and Sundays. Saturdays are OK because I start at midday, but Sundays are hell. I wake up at 6 in the morning – well, no, I have to be there at 6 – and I work until 1pm. It’s the first time I’ve worked so much, it’s not easy, it’s tiring, but I guess you get used to it… The most important thing is to get a good night’s sleep the night before and not stay up late… [laughs] … we’ll see.
[i] Okay… so you’ve been in Paris for 2 years…?
[r] So… in October 2018, it will be 2 years… phew… a year and 11 months… wow! Yes… a year and 11 months.
[i] So you work and study at the same time, what do you think of this rhythm compared to the rhythm of life in Syria? Is it different?
[r] What do you mean by that?
[i] I mean the pace of life…
[r] Honestly, you can’t compare. In fact, I experienced the pace in Syria like everyone else, thinking it was normal. It’s horrible, but since everyone was going through the same thing, we didn’t realise… But now I’m experiencing something completely different. Since I was a child, it was my dream to live this way of life… student life, the world of work… It’s very different from life in Syria… if I tell you about when I went to university… … how I felt when I went back to university and how I took my exams… Attendance was not compulsory. I studied English literature at the University of Damascus. Anyone who has been to the University of Arts in Damascus will understand what I’m talking about… because it was a real mess, a complete shambles. I don’t want to dwell on it too much, but honestly, the people there bothered me. I didn’t feel at ease, to such an extent that I didn’t even make any friends, apart from two, whom I met by chance and with whom I sometimes talk. I didn’t feel like I was enjoying student life when I was young! Now I realise that I’m too old, even if there’s no age limit for studying. I thought to myself, ‘great, I’ve just got my baccalaureate, I’m going to university…’ but I was disappointed… It was a mess, I wasn’t happy at all… My exams were an ordeal, I was always frustrated, I failed systematically… It revolted me, I felt really bad because I was repeating years all the time. As if I didn’t know how to study, or that I wasn’t made for studying. But no! When I arrived here and studied French at UPEC (levels B1 and B2), it turned out that I studied well, I was brave, I attended classes… And I made lots of friends of different nationalities; some from Asia, some from America, from Brazil… A real student life, you know, everything is different here… it’s not the same life…
[i] What makes you think that student life is different here?
[r] I’ll tell you… as far as university or even another area is concerned, what fascinated me here and what gave me an iron will is that here, in this country, on this continent, when you want to do something, when you have a goal and you know where you want to go, then you can achieve your objective. If you want to do any kind of work and you know where you want to get to and you work at it and you really give it your all, you will get there. If you make the effort, you will be rewarded. Unfortunately, that’s what depressed me in Syria and I didn’t realise it. Well, whatever you do, you’re just like everyone else, it’s all a foregone conclusion, we were a herd moving in the same direction. Whether I work or not; whether I study or not, in any case, there aren’t many possibilities and choices… Here, it’s exactly the opposite. The more I work, the more I get tired, the more the results of my efforts are visible, and they lead me step by step towards the realisation of my project, that’s what’s different, honestly. Here my capacity for work has returned, I like to tire myself out, because here the fatigue is not wasted, that’s the difference.
[i] OK, and what other activities do you do in Paris?
[r] So… the other activities… Well… at university, I discovered things a bit by chance I took part in two workshops, one on cooking and the other on theatre. The cooking workshop was quite funny, a bit messy the workshop had been set up for the first time, it wasn’t great, but I had fun, I prepared a Syrian dessert with cheese for them, I taught them the recipe, it was great fun to see the French people tasting this dessert and thinking to themselves, ‘hang on, is it possible to have a cake with cheese in it?’ At first they were shocked but then they thought it was good, so it was a good experience after all, even if I did get bored. The second workshop was a nice surprise. So for the theatre… So at university, I had to choose options to validate my year. So I had the choice between four options, each more difficult than the last. There was the option ‘History of France’ and I don’t like history in general, and another option I don’t really know what it was… anyway, boring subjects… and among these options there was ‘theatre’. I said to myself, ‘come on, you have experience in this field, go ahead and sign up’… Especially since it seemed to be the least worst of the options… So I chose it and convinced two friends, [name] and [name] and my friend [name] to sign up with me. There were also French students, we were a diverse group of about twenty people, some of whom spoke French fluently, and others, like us, were learning French, which made for an interesting mix. Our teacher was very nice… well no, absolutely not [laughs], never mind… In fact, she didn’t have a clear idea of what we were going to do. She told us that for the first two sessions, we were going to start with improvisation… To see what would come out of it, like little funny sketches… Honestly, we were all bored, nobody was motivated… Maybe the problem came from the teacher, she was difficult… But we got down to it, we started improvising sketches and everything… Little by little, little stories came out here and there… We were able to come up with about ten sketches that we put together. One day, [name] and I were having a coffee and we thought, why not write a sketch about our country. So we started writing it and the next day we presented it and… they loved it, they were glued to their seats
[i] Did you present the sketch in front of an audience?
[r] Yes, of course! We performed it in front of about 40-45 people from the university… Their reaction was incredible, people were laughing and crying at the same time…
[i] What was the concept of the sketch?
[r] So… the concept of the sketch… It starts with… There was a screen behind us showing a starry night to create a nocturnal atmosphere, [name] was sleeping on a table, I was sitting on her right and [name] on her left. We were turning our backs on each other without moving. Then [name] wakes up, but we understand that she is in a dream… So she wakes up and stretches. She looks around and finds [name] on her left. She says to her, ‘Who are you?’ [name] replies, ‘What? Don’t you recognise me? Are you stupid or what? Don’t you recognise me?’ She says to her, ‘No, sorry, who are you?’ [name]: ‘But I’m you!’ She thinks… she’s lost… what do you mean, I’m you… she repeats: ‘But who are you?’… In fact, [name] is the version of [name] who lived in Damascus. Then [name] says: ‘Oh yes, it’s true, in Damascus I had spots…’ Anyway, they talk and Waad recognises herself in the end. Then, while they were talking, I got up… I joined in the conversation and said to [name], ‘No, no, no, it’s me, it’s you.’ They both looked at me and said, ‘Who’s that?’ I said, ‘Wait, I’m you, but your French version…’ Then the Syrian version starts shouting at me. She says to me: ‘What are you doing here?!’ And I replied in the same way and we started arguing… And [name] was between us… Each of us was trying to attract [name] to her side, each of us was trying to prove to him that we were the best version. So [name] puts on Lena’s song about Damascus. She tells her to remember how much she loved walking in the Hamidiyeh souk, how much she loved admiring the Damascus citadel, how much she loved eating croissants on the way to Bab Touma… In short, she brings back memories and [name] starts to cry. So I grab her and say, ‘No, darling, come here!’ ‘You love France so much!’ ‘You love the Eiffel Tower, you love picnicking on the quays, “You love éclairs…” Anyway. And I put on “La Vie en Rose” and start making her dance. She starts to be very happy… But [name] gets annoyed from afar, then she starts saying to [name]: ‘Aren’t you afraid of forgetting Arabic? You love the Arabic language!’ But I tell her: ‘No, you love French and anyway, you have lots of friends here who speak Arabic so you’re not going to forget it since you practise it…’ So we start arguing again, then after a while [name] explodes: ‘Stop it, both of you, I can’t take it anymore and I don’t know who to go to, so please just get away from me!’ She then returns to her initial position and falls asleep. Suddenly, [name] and I look at each other, then we look at [name], then we look at each other again… And then it’s as if there is an agreement between us, we say to ourselves that maybe we should make peace because she belongs to both of us, and there’s no point in arguing. In fact, the idea of the sketch is to talk about what happens to us when we come here, we try to integrate but we are lost, and in Damascus we loved things that no longer exist today. We are torn between two inaccessible worlds. And the idea we wanted to share is that there’s no point in choosing, you can find a middle ground and take what’s beautiful in both, and become a new person. It’s no longer possible to take sides, there’s something new now.
[i] Do you think you’ve found a balance between these two worlds?
[r] No, not yet. That is to say that I am delighted to be here, I love France. But I am still comparing and feeling irritated… I always tell myself that it is better here than there, I am still reacting emotionally… I feel that I still need time and maturity… I still feel angry when I think about Syria and my memories there… So, not yet… I need time…
[i] OK, and in France are there things that bother you in your daily life?
[i] What bothers me is of a personal nature, in relation to my experience, and the way I see life, in short, my own feelings. Um… for example, my opinion is that in France, especially in Paris, the pace of life is very fast. In Paris, you always feel like you’re late, like you don’t have enough time, everyone is running and you feel obliged to run with them… it’s stressful… On top of that, there’s a really uncomfortable feeling that won’t go away, which is the feeling of insecurity… I still feel that I don’t have a solid foundation yet… So… That’s why I’m still worried and not very comfortable… The stress, the fast pace of life, the lack of security… that’s what bothers me…
[i] What foundation do you need to feel secure?
[r] You see, it’s quite obvious… For example, the image I have of myself being secure is one where I have completed my master’s degree and have a recognised qualification in my pocket. I will then have a bac+5 and here, that is highly regarded. And also, when I have obtained a permanent contract for a job that I love, and not a job just to earn money… Those basics are what make you feel that you have achieved a certain balance. It’s very basic, in fact, I’m not asking for much… That’s what I imagine…
[i] Do you think your French friends understand when you explain that these basics are important to you?
[r] Of course, it’s the same for everyone! They all have the same housing problem, everyone is always rushing around, everyone is afraid of losing their job, of not being able to pay the rent, of being evicted from their home… That’s how it works in this country… Then again, I haven’t lived outside Paris, I think it’s not as bad there, but I’m not sure… But that’s how it is for most people here… work, rent and all that…
[i] Where do you usually go in Paris?
[r] Well… I’m often in Créteil, in the south-eastern suburbs of Paris, for university and work. There’s a nice lake there, and I sometimes go there with friends… There are also some good restaurants there… Before I moved, I lived in a small town in the south too, in Sucy-en-Brie. I ended up finding a forest not far from my house, I would take my bike and spend 2-3 hours cycling around it… it was a real forest, so much so that once I saw a deer there… it’s almost a nature reserve… And when I go to Paris, for example, there are lots of places… I love hanging out on the quays at Jaurès… having a beer, a cigarette… There are nice bars, good restaurants… I like lots of places in fact but… But yes I think that, at Jaurès, I really have a good time… I don’t know why…
[i] Do you like very touristy places?
[r] Well look, I haven’t visited many places, but what I can say is that I love the Sacré Coeur. I love the church inside, I sit there and think about things… I don’t know… I like the atmosphere of churches in general… I don’t know why… And there’s a great view, you can see all of Paris, it’s our Mount Qassioun [laughs] … Anyway, I like it a lot… On the other hand, I don’t like the Eiffel Tower at all… I can’t bring myself to go there… I find it a stifling place, I don’t know why… Notre Dame… well… There was a time when I really liked Saint-Michel but not so much any more… I’ve become like some unpleasant Parisians who don’t go near the tourist areas… Now I prefer my own little corners, familiar places… [laughs]
[i] Before coming to France, to Paris, had you imagined what the city would be like? What did you imagine you would do here? And also what places did you imagine visiting, and so on?
[r] I don’t know why, but before coming, I hadn’t imagined anything in particular… I don’t really know… I just had this image of people walking in the street… Nothing in particular, really… Obviously, I had the image of the Eiffel Tower, and of course I wanted to see it… obviously… But… er… I don’t know… I can’t remember what I had imagined… It was a long time ago… But as I told you, I didn’t really have any particular image in mind…
[i] Now let’s talk about your friends. Do you have more French or Arab friends?
[r] Well, let me think… I spend more time with French people. I really like their company. I’ve met several people recently… They’re very nice, funny, cool and calm… I like the way we can be ourselves, say what we want without holding back… In fact, here you can feel at ease, they really accept you as you are, so there’s no point in pretending and creating a persona… As long as you don’t play a role, they’ll like you… In short, most of my friends are French…
[i] The Arabs and especially the Syrians who come here… What do you think of them? Do you think they try to live like they would in their country of origin? Or do you think they have done as you have and tried to integrate?
[r] Well, first of all, I don’t know many Syrians here, I can count them on the fingers of one hand. Well… of the five that I know, four are trying to integrate like me, they quickly made friends, they quickly learnt the language, they have new projects… So yes, there are a lot of them among my friends! Er… there’s probably just one because she came with her family, so she stayed in a closed environment, she can’t come and go as she wants… She’s still young and, in short, she’s not very comfortable… But no, the rest of my friends are fine, they’re off! It’s really something that makes me happy…
[i] I’d like to talk a little bit about your hobbies in general, and what you were able to take with you to Paris, and what you left behind in Syria.
[i] My hobbies…? What hobbies do I have? [laughs] Basically, it was music, but since it’s been a long time since I had a place of my own, I can no longer practise and play as I want because I’m always staying with someone, so I can’t… I don’t want to disturb… But for example, before moving here, I lived with a French family (my loves…) so, this family has three children, Lila, Sacha and Clio So Lila plays the guitar, and I learned the piano because they have one, I play well now, and Sacha plays the piano too and sings. We had discovered a singer together, her name is Billie Eilish, she is only 16 but she sings very well, we had all liked the same song, it is a very calm song, so we would get together Lila on the guitar, me on the piano and Sacha in the back singing and playing the tam-tam, it was a great experience and the song was great but we didn’t recorded it, I don’t know why. Oh yes! Because Lila doesn’t like being filmed, I have to convince her to record it. To get back to our subject, in Syria I made more music than here, I had more opportunities, I miss it, I also miss my musician friends a lot, It’s not the same here… Maybe it’s because I haven’t looked hard enough. Maybe later? Of course, music is part of my life, I already play several instruments, I’m not going to lose what I’ve learnt about music. If I find people I can play with… of course why not, maybe I’ll have to wait a little longer…
[i] During those two years in Paris, what are the moments that made an impression on you? The moments that made an impression on you in a negative or positive way… that you consider important…
[r] One moment or several moments?
[i] As you wish…
[r] Um… I’ll tell you in no particular order… For example, today, I will never forget that, well, I am at home at the same time, I will never forget the French family, they came with me and helped me move. Benoit, Emilie, Sacha and Lila want to see where I am going to live, they helped me carry a ton of suitcases… may the blessing of God be upon them… I remember that I was already unwell as I left their door… I was really moved, and when Emilie took me in her arms, we both cried at that moment, I understood that these people were my family here. I had lost the concept of family, the security that comes with having a family, and this family, in the space of 8 months, became my family. I don’t know how to explain these moments, but it’s wonderful! These people loved me without asking for anything in return. I loved them very much, even adored them. They gave me something very important. They gave me a roof over my head when I was in a difficult situation, they didn’t just give me a roof over my head, they shared their whole life with me. I will never forget these moments, they are engraved in me, they were powerful moments… There was also the moment when I arrived at their place, I was carrying all my suitcases, I was tense, I was looking at them… they were looking at me. We were like ‘hello, hello…’, we didn’t know each other… we were very embarrassed on the first day… But on the second day, I think, after a glass of wine, the situation completely unblocked. So it was also a very difficult moment… I wasn’t happy yet. I thought to myself, I’m going to have to live with five people and on top of that, I was still a beginner in French, I could hardly speak… It was hard and I cried a lot… So, there’s also… The time I found out that I had been accepted onto the master’s programme. I was really happy, I really wasn’t expecting it… I had wanted to do the master’s for a long time, but I really didn’t think I would be accepted… it was a really good moment… There are also little moments related to feeling safe or not… When I went to see my friends in the Netherlands, when I arrived at their place, I felt like I was with my family, I love them so much… and when I said goodbye to them and was driving away, I would look back and see them waving goodbye… at times like that, I would cry a lot… This feeling of losing someone is very hard for me. Even if I only have to say goodbye to someone, even if I know I will see them again, deep down I am not at peace, I feel vulnerable, I don’t want to lose someone, I have already lost too many people… I can’t bear the nostalgia anymore… it’s really hard…
[i] What do you miss?
[r] Well… I miss a lot of people… I miss my father terribly… He really is very dear to me… He’s my father, my best friend, the apple of my eye… I dream of being able to hold him in my arms, I miss him so much… And… er… He’s the one who gives me strength and self-confidence… There’s no one like him, no soul so beautiful… I’m not the only one who says it, everyone who knows him says it too… And I would love so much to see him… I’m afraid I won’t be able to… before he… no I don’t want to think about it but I would love so much to see him. I miss my sister Maya a lot too… So much so that we can no longer talk to each other, because every time we talk to each other, we say to each other: ‘I miss you, I miss you, when will we see each other again?’ And that’s it, we’re fed up, we don’t know what to say to each other any more… It’s a difficult situation… Dhia and her children, my mother, everyone else… My family is the only thing that matters to me in Syria… to tell the truth… Syria means nothing to me anymore… For me, it’s a suffocating place. I wasn’t happy there. But my soul is still there because my family is there So that’s what I miss the most… That’s it…
[i] Did your family notice that you had changed after those two years in France? Is the [name] who left still the same person today?
[r] Uh… In your opinion, of course… Or according to them… So… Honestly, no, because… For example, as my father and my whole family always tell me, that, um… nothing gets in my way, when I want to do something, I can do it. What annoys me is that they’re not afraid for me. They tell me they’re not afraid for me because I know how to look after myself. Sometimes I wish they were afraid for me, if they knew what I was going through here… It’s better that they don’t know… I don’t go into detail about everything because some things are complicated… But they always have this idea that, well, it’s [name] she’s getting by, we don’t have to worry about her… So no, I don’t think they think I’ve changed. But yes, I have changed in some respects. Now I’m very outspoken. Before, I was afraid to express myself… especially about certain subjects, like… (Sorry to speak out of turn…)
[i] No problem.
[r] For example, a taboo subject at home, which I dare not discuss with anyone, and on which I cannot give my opinion, is religion. Now I feel comfortable talking to my father about it. What’s handy about my father is, um… Not handy, how can I put it… What’s the word… What I mean is that he is religious. But the great thing is that he doesn’t force you to do this or that… He respects you for who you are. If you want to talk about something, that’s up to you, if you don’t want to talk about it, that’s fine. But there were limits. Now there aren’t any, I can discuss anything with him, we talk about everything without getting angry. We can express ourselves freely. At the moment we are even talking about sexuality, and it is a completely taboo subject in Syria. And as I lived in this French family, I saw how [name] dealt with this subject with his teenage children, I saw things that were really surprising to me. I wondered if his way of dealing with it was normal… From his point of view, my questions were strange… I wondered why it was so complicated to talk about this subject with my parents. So we discussed it with my father and he told me, you teach me things… Well, not teach me things but teach me how to handle certain situations… And also that we make a big deal out of this subject when it’s a normal subject. Anyway, there you go…
[i] Do you think the French are more comfortable with this subject?
[r] We can’t generalise, because it’s something very personal, there are believers, non-believers. But in the family where I was… [name] is a non-practising Jew, she has no faith… And Benoît is Catholic and he’s not into it at all either. And the children, nothing at all, you see… So it’s really something personal and it varies from one person to another. But where I was, there were a lot of things I liked… I really felt at ease with the way [name] handled this subject with her children… I thought it was great… I’ll give you a small example. One day, she and I were sitting in the room of the girls who were at their grandmother’s. [name] and I were in their room, tidying up and talking at the same time, then in Lila’s things we found a condom. [name] laughed and said to me… ‘What is Lila doing with it?’ and she threw it on the table. For five minutes, I didn’t know what to say. By the way, Lila is 16 or 17 years old. I asked [name], ‘Is this normal for you?’ She said, ‘What’s the problem?’ If we found the same thing at my house! It’s serious… very serious. Impossible to imagine such a situation! She told me it was normal, that she had it in sex education class, they give it to them to educate them… So it’s normal. Such a situation shocks me!
[i] [name], what drives you in life? What motivates you? What keeps you going to realise your dreams? Here in Paris?
[i] It has nothing to do with Paris, it’s a question of values Your values, it’s your essence that motivates you to move forward Whether you are in France, Africa or Syria… they are the same.
[i] They don’t change, in your opinion… depending on the place? What changes is the way of being, the conditions, but the values themselves, no, that doesn’t change… you, Haitham, you don’t like lying. Each person has their own values. As far as I’m concerned, I’ve found what I wanted in my life… to help… I have always been interested in human beings, I like meeting other people and helping in any way I can. It gives me a sense of fulfilment, which is why I chose the subject of my master’s degree, and why I know what my future holds for at least the next 10 years. Now I can see my future very clearly, whereas before I didn’t know what to do for the next day, I was afraid. It’s nothing like France. Well, France is giving me the opportunity to achieve all this, once again this master’s degree will open doors for me, so there you go…
[i] How do the French see refugees? What is the stereotype of a refugee in France?
[r] Unfortunately, the image of a refugee or migrant here is very bad, because most people do not give a good image of themselves. It doesn’t matter which country they come from: Afghanistan, Africa, Syria. They come from everywhere, but it doesn’t matter, they are not making a good impression. It’s as if they were dependent on society. All the French say the same thing: ‘It’s unbelievable that we pay taxes and they don’t do anything. Nobody wants to work. They just take advantage of the system for a long time.’ I was discussing this with [name], and she said to me, ‘If only every migrant paid one euro in taxes.’ [name] doesn’t think it’s fair that they pay phenomenal amounts of money, while the others don’t want to work, they are content to do nothing. Every time I meet a French person, be it that family or their friends or even my friends, everyone tells me that they didn’t expect this image of the emigrant, the refugee in particular. ‘You, you’re a refugee? You can’t tell.’ How should I be? Dirty, in torn clothes? Poor? Do I have to have bad manners? What is your image of a refugee? I don’t know why you have this image? Is it because of the media, or are the people themselves responsible for this bad image? But… no… One of my projects in this country is to show that we are not all like that. Look at us, there are people who want to work and who have plans. Just because I am a refugee does not mean that I was good for nothing in my country. I would like to make it clear to the French that I had a good social status, nothing to do with money. We were among the people who had studied, we had a good reputation, the image of refugees is a bit distorted here, unfortunately. The image of refugees is still not very good.
[i] In your opinion, is France a welcoming country for immigrants?
[a] Yes, really very welcoming, more than it should be.
[i] How do you mean?
[a] Because this country took in people without being prepared. Other countries in Europe were much better prepared and organised. Here in France, we accept a lot of people… and then there’s the crisis, and we can’t manage it, I don’t know how to explain it to you. On the one hand, this country is opening its arms as if to say, ‘You’re not comfortable in your own country, come here, this is your home.’ But at the same time they don’t know how to manage things, finding accommodation in this country is a disaster.
[i] How did you manage the administrative procedures? Was it easy?
[r] I’m going to cry again, oh my God! It’s a subject that makes me angry, I don’t know what to say, it’s really difficult, it’s not possible, how complicated it is to queue for papers, papers… Endlessly. And it’s slow… slow… it’s not logical. The worst part was when I didn’t speak French. Nobody made the effort to speak another language, not even English, English is international! Nothing… as if they were saying to me, if you don’t speak French, too bad for you. That was my first slap in the face… Go on, learn French, what motivation! I’ve been here for 2 years, and I have the impression that it will take me many more years to finish my paperwork. I’m still missing some papers, it’s very difficult. It’s a painful subject.
[i] Do you like the French language?
[r] Oh yes, really, it’s a beautiful language, a really beautiful language. Now that I speak French, not perfectly as I would like, I don’t understand it 100%. But I can easily hold a normal conversation with my friends. Every time I speak French, in the middle of a discussion, I think to myself, how beautiful French is. It’s like music, and what’s more I speak the language, now I can even joke. It’s not easy to joke or argue in a language you don’t know well, so I’m happy with a very beautiful language. The French don’t know that French is pleasant to hear, every time I say that, they tell me that French is very dry, that it has a flat intonation. And I tell them that I find it beautiful and sexy. I really like this language.
[i] So, what’s your experience of public transport in Paris? It’s much talked about in France.
[r] Not a bad question! I really like the metro, I can dream, I enjoy looking at the mix of people. On the other hand, I hate certain metro and RER lines, I don’t like getting on the RER, I hate the RER C.
[i] Why?
[r] RER D too. Even the people who use these lines are ugly, not pleasant. For example, at the end of line 4, towards Porte de Clignancourt, oh my goodness, it’s weird. Halfway along the line, you go through Saint-Germain Les Halles-Châtelet, so far so good, people are calm. Apparently, all these people get off at Les Halles, and then you carry on towards Gare de l’Est, towards Clignancourt And then it’s a mess, people become very annoying, always drunk. And I always have an argument with these people. But recently, where I live, I’ve been avoiding taking public transport, I take my bike, even if it takes me half an hour, three quarters of an hour, but I take my bike, I put on my headphones and I ride, it’s better than taking the bus. That’s my experience with public transport.
[i] This question leads to another: are there several faces of Paris?
[r] Yes… in this city you can find crazy people, drunk people, good people, the well-educated, the cultured, art lovers. I don’t know… in every neighbourhood, you find a certain type of person, and when you know Paris well, you know that there are limits not to be crossed. This city is full of contradictions, you find the good and its opposite…
[i] What did you like most about this city? And what bothers you?
[r] Let me tell you about Paris, or rather the Île-de-France region in general. I like the fact that there is countryside, and for me the countryside is a source of energy. When you get tired of the city, you have lots of places to go to, and recharge your batteries. What I don’t like about Paris is the dirt, Paris is really dirty. The dirtiness of Paris reminds me of Damascus, seeing the sewage in the street as if it were normal, the smell of urine, that’s the perfume of Paris. The pollution, the noise, really a lot of noise. I like the architecture… this city has a soul, a history, a heritage of stories. You walk down a street and you can’t help thinking about all the famous people who have walked there before you. It’s amazing! My feelings for this city are contradictory. I love and hate lots of things at the same time, but that’s life. It’s not perfect, it’s life.
[i] Do you plan to stay in Paris forever, do you intend to move? If you have the choice, of course?
[r] Personally, as I couldn’t move in Syria, for me, now, it’s a reaction to move. I don’t want to stay in the same place forever, and as I have the opportunity to leave, so why not? Why shouldn’t I move? Paris is beautiful. Honestly, my intuition tells me that I will learn a lot in this country, but I won’t stay, I don’t think I will stay. This country will keep a special place in my heart, I might come back often, I might even end up settling there, but my current plans are to travel. I’m thinking of spending four months in Africa, in India. I don’t want to get too attached to one place. I want to get out and be free.
[i] Do you think this experience of being an expatriate will be useful to you when you leave again?
[r] Of course, anyone who emigrates acquires a great capacity for reflection, they develop a new way of thinking. The most important thing is the ability to adapt. When I arrived, I knew nothing, no language, nothing at all, I had to learn and adapt from scratch, without stress… Taking things as they came, all that brings out the best in you, you become tolerant, In Paris, there is everything, so it’s up to you to see what you want, you find everything in Paris: racists, non-racists, the most important thing is to accept people as they are, they are human beings. I can’t accept a killer, but I accept gays and blacks. I don’t know why being black is a problem here.
[i] Have you been a victim of racism?
[r] No, not racism.
[i] Discrimination?
[r] Never. Maybe some people have an image of us Arabs, Syrians, but no, no one has ever made a thoughtless comment like that to me, no.
[i] Do the French at first glance consider you to be French or a foreigner?
[r] No, I’m never taken for a Frenchwoman. Well, I’m often taken for an Italian, a Spaniard or even an Indian, I’ve been given several versions of my appearance. But in any case, I don’t look anything like a French person. As I have a slight French accent, there is a little confusion at first, but people quickly realise that I am not French, it is still too early for my level of French.
[i] Do you think that one day you will be able to feel 100% French?
[r] No.
[i] No? Why?
[r] Because I’m not French… What I wanted to say before… I don’t want to be the image of something. I don’t understand this whole nationality thing. You have to be this or that. I don’t like that. I’d like to be a collection of beautiful things. Beautiful things from France, from Syria, ready to learn beautiful things from other countries, new things, even if I had French nationality, it wouldn’t mean anything. Unfortunately, nationality is a document that allows me to travel, I’m not interested in being anything in particular.
[i] Well, have you kept any habits, any quirks specific to Syria?
[a] Let’s see… what were my habits in Syria? You won’t believe me… nothing. In Syria, I used to listen to metal in the morning, and I always did the same thing, but it has nothing to do with Syria, it’s personal… I like… no, honestly I don’t.
[i] What would you say about French cuisine? And Syrian cuisine?
[r] In the family I was with, [name] loves cooking, she’s passionate about it. Yesterday, I made a Syrian dish, green beans with olive oil, they liked it a lot. Here, I’m more interested in cooking than in Syria. With [name], we decided every week to make a Syrian or French dish. I don’t remember the names of [name]’s dishes because his family is of Eastern European origin. The Jews there have dishes that resemble ours, a strange mixture. Now I love cooking, I taught the girls the word ‘habibti’ at home. Sacha calls me ‘ma habibti’, or ‘my habibti’. I love this word, I repeat it often, so they have learnt it, and we use it naturally now. I also taught them swear words, but I won’t say them, those words touch me. One evening I taught them how to write their first name in Arabic, they loved Arabic calligraphy. However, my writing is not great, but for them, it’s fluid with dots, a whole evening… What they liked best was Sacha’s name, and Lila. Lila is Leila, they liked the letter I. I wrote Leila, then I told them the word ‘naiman’, which is said after a shower. It was a lot of fun.
[i] Do you make them listen to Arabic music?
[a] No, because I don’t really listen to it. I once played a song for [name], but she doesn’t like to listen to a song without understanding the lyrics, she likes to know what the song is about, so she doesn’t listen to even songs in English, only in French. So no Arabic music. I don’t listen to it myself.
[i] Which French singers do you prefer?
[r] I love France Gall, I recognise my values in her songs. For example, in the song ‘Résiste’, ‘résiste, prouve que tu existes’ (Resist, prove that you exist). In these lyrics, there is defiance, freedom, she doesn’t give a damn, I loved it. It’s my favourite song. There are also pop songs, there are some pretty good songs.
[i] Let’s stay with art. Museums, exhibitions, paintings, art in general. Have you visited Paris?
[r] Yes, I visited a lot of museums, the Musée d’Orsay, the Invalides, I visited the Picasso Museum. I can’t remember which ones, but they were interesting. But I get bored very quickly. I like looking at paintings, but I get bored. After an hour, I’m done. I get bored. It’s not an essential part of my life. I loved the Picasso museum, maybe because it’s famous and I liked the idea of the exhibition. But in general, museums are not my thing.
[i] Shows, events? I have been to a few shows. The first time I went to a show, I didn’t speak French yet, so I didn’t understand anything, it was the longest two hours of my life. It tired me out, it was a gift, I couldn’t refuse, I was with a friend and I was tired. Then at university, I went to several shows, I understood French, so it was not bad. I understood quite well, it was fun, now I don’t have time, so I haven’t seen anything new.
[i] I’m going to ask you a question that has nothing to do with art. How do you feel when you see armed soldiers in the streets of Paris?
[a] They are really handsome, it seems that they choose the most handsome, frankly I like them a lot. When I come across them, I like to greet them, they are calm and kind, they are there to protect and help, unlike ours in Syria. I like them.
[i] Weren’t you impressed the first time? Like at home, what?
[r] No, at home it’s very different. The soldiers are rude, dirty and badly dressed. Here it’s completely the opposite, they don’t bother you if you’ve done nothing wrong, they don’t provoke you, it’s a different mentality. I don’t feel the same at all. These people are there to help and protect you, if you break the law, it’s normal to be punished. Their presence reassures me. The police and the army are something else here.
[i] What do you want to achieve in France? What are you thinking about? Your plans, your short-term projects? You said you like helping people and doing voluntary work.
[r] [name] and I have a project, we’ve both had long discussions about it. We were thinking of doing something for this country, helping certain categories of people. We both feel sympathy for the elderly. When I worked at Monoprix in Sucy-en-Brie, there were a lot of elderly people. And it breaks my heart to see an elderly person struggling to walk with a cane, carrying heavy bags. [name] and I have a project for these people, it’s a project that hasn’t yet matured, we really want to help these people. In France, there are really a lot of elderly people. As far as I’m concerned, this is the area where I want to help, I’d like to do something.
[i] Right. [name of interviewee], you lived in France for 2 years, one day you will return to Syria, and you will see people you already know again, perhaps another generation, if you were to give them a piece of advice or two… what would it be?
[r] Stop being so complicated, everyone should be able to live as they wish, let others live as they wish. We live as if we had nothing better to do than look at what other people are doing, always saying it’s shameful, it’s not right… It’s this kind of behaviour that made me flee my country. What else could I say to them? Enjoy life, live it to the full, study, work… go out with your friends. Because you only get one life. If you don’t do what you want to do now, when will you do it? There is no afterlife, it’s all lies. So live and leave others alone.
[i] Well, I’m going to ask you a philosophical question. Let’s imagine that Paris is a person. How did you see her when you arrived? How do you see her now? A male or female face?
[r] For me, Paris had a feminine face. Now, I see her as a tired mother, she’s trying to pull it all together, she’s strong, but she can’t manage. Maybe she didn’t go to school, like mothers do where we come from in Syria, she has 10 children, she can’t manage to look after them all. I don’t know why, I see her exhausted with all these people, and she’s lost. Before, I saw her as a very beautiful, European person. And now she’s tired, I don’t know…
[i] One last question: what are your fears for your future?
[r] My fears as a person, me?
[i] Yes… [name of interviewee] who lives in Paris.
[r] I’m afraid of losing the people I love before I see them again. That’s a problem for me, I’m too afraid, I’m afraid of finding myself all alone when I get older, like those old people who have no one left. I’m afraid of being alone, really alone. And sometimes I’m afraid of not having a home of my own, of always having to move house. As I get older, I’d like to feel safe. What scares me most is losing the people I love.
[i] Now for a positive question: what are your wishes?
[r] You ask questions that make people cry and others that give hope… My wishes, my wishes, are to see the people I love and also to realise my projects, and to help people in need. There are many of them on earth, all over the world, there is a lot of sadness. The world has become sad. I can’t do anything on my own, but if everyone tries to do something on their own, maybe things will get better. Enough with the wars.
[i] I think we’ve clarified a lot of issues. Do you have anything to add? Anything we haven’t talked about?
[r] I would like to say that I am very happy here, it is a chance for me, even if all this came after a catastrophe that destroyed Syria. I am glad I came here, I am finally myself, I am no longer obliged to lie, I have no reason to lie, or to show an image other than my own. If someone accepts me as I am, that’s great, if not, too bad, that person doesn’t deserve to be in my life. This country has opened my eyes, and I hope the same for all the people who have left, I hope they can find themselves, it’s very important.
[i] Thank you once again, your answers are very interesting.
[r] Your questions too,
[i] Your ideas are great, I wish you success in your life, and that you find solutions to everything, and that you realise all your dreams very soon.
[r] Thank you… for all of us.
[i] Inshallah, inshallah, thank you.