SU_P_10

[i] [name], can you introduce yourself and tell us when you came to France?
[r] For God’s sake, I entered France in 2010. And, I entered France, in Paris, where I didn’t know anyone. I didn’t know anyone. And, I found myself in a completely strange and completely unknown environment. Because I didn’t have any acquaintances in Paris in France. And I’m still in Paris, it’s been eight years since I arrived and I’ve been living here ever since.
[i] When you entered France, was Paris the first city you visited?
[r] Uhh, No, it wasn’t the first city, certainly the first city was the city of Nice. When I arrived, because of the Dublin regulations between the Schengen states, which still exist, and because of that I spent two months in Nice, because I was in the Dublin procedure. So I had to flee to Paris. There was no other solution. If I had stayed there, I would have been sent to Hungary, and that would have been very hard for me.
[i] What did you feel when you set foot on French soil?
[r] Well, in general, when you leave your country of origin, it means that you are going to encounter another civilisation, another world, other ways of thinking and another language. And it was normal. When I entered France, I felt free and safe in terms of security. There were no problems. The only problem I had was the lack of understanding of the people and I didn’t know how to speak the language. I didn’t even know how to say ‘hello’ and what ‘hello’ meant, and I never heard it on TV or the radio in Afghanistan.
[i] So the language was very difficult for you? So how did you solve your problems?
[r] Well, as I spoke a lot of English to create social links with society, but what I felt was really necessary was to learn French. Because when you live in a society, you have to be able to speak the language of that society. It doesn’t matter whether you’re in Germany, Afghanistan, Iran or China. In my opinion, a person can feel at ease when he is integrated into society. So, when the person speaks the language of the society, it is easier to have social and cultural ties with the people, and therefore fewer problems.
[i] Did it take you a long time to learn French?
[r] Of course, and no doubt every country has its own difficulties, including France. First of all, I would like to thank the French government and people, who have opened their hearts and minds to the Europeans to welcome and help the migrants. But, in general, we can say that there are many problems at the beginning. For example, problems with housing, problems with accommodation, problems with food, as well as thousands of other problems. Other problems such as healthcare and so on. And so I didn’t have the opportunity to find a place or a school to go to and learn the French language at an academic level, because I had many other problems. I was on the streets, I was sleeping rough and I wasn’t the only one, maybe there were thousands of other people from different countries who had fled their countries because of problems they had had. So, when they arrived here, they found themselves on the street and without accommodation. And so, I thought about it first, if I went into education and learnt the language. Imagined if I learnt the language straight away Then how would I solve my accommodation problems? And the food problems? And the problems with the metro ticket, if I went to a school, I had to have a metro card. And that in the metro I had to take a ticket and then get on. When I didn’t have all these possibilities, so I at least tried to find a part-time job. So that first of all I have a little economic resource and then it will be a question of learning the language. Well, in general I tried to solve the language problem. On the other hand, in the sense that you have to speak formal or academic French, I can’t imagine that I am at that level. For economic reasons that exist in France. And it’s clear to everyone the economic difficulties they have here. If you don’t work here, life is very difficult.
[i] When you arrived in Paris, what did you feel? Had you heard of the city of Paris before? And what was the city of Paris for you?
[r] In reality, Paris is undoubtedly a city rich in culture and civilisation, a beautiful city, and a city where great men of learning have lived, such as Victor Hugo. Paris was not unknown to me. I knew the city of Paris, even when I was in Afghanistan. And I sometimes read Victor Hugo’s poetry in Persian. It was a beautiful city, an interesting city and in every corner you can see the culture and civilisation. It is a city about which, if you want, you can write books. It is a very beautiful city, by beauty I mean cultural beauties. For me, a castle cannot be beautiful, but culture is very important to me. Because you see people of all nationalities, different people of different religions and different sects and different races, all of that is (mixed) and in French it’s mélangés, and they have made Paris a beautiful city in the world. And you see people from all over the world, that’s why Paris is very beautiful in my eyes, and I really like Parisians.
[i] French culture and Parisian culture in particular, what differences and similarities could they have with the culture of the country you come from?
[r] No doubt. Human beings in general have differences attributed to them in the same way that no two people’s faces are exactly alike, in the same way that we can say that cultures are different from one another. And that’s beautiful, each culture has its own particular beauty. And if we compare French culture with Afghan culture, well, there are many differences. And so we could say that in Afghanistan our culture is our dress, our culture is our gastronomy, our culture is our music, our culture is our joy, and that Afghans are full of joy. In fact, a few days ago I attended an event in which one of the French writers said that Afghans are the happiest people in the world. And that’s despite all the security problems in Afghanistan. The people are happy, even if they have little or nothing. The people are happy. Well, in my opinion, the more we move towards modernity, the more life becomes more stressful, and the problems and difficulties increase more and more. From this point of view, I can say that life in Afghanistan is much easier and simpler than life in France. And I have not lived anywhere other than in France. I have seen life here, and I have lots of friends and acquaintances now. People in Afghanistan are full of joy, they are smiling. People in Afghanistan invite you, they invite you to their homes, they offer you tea, and uh when you become friends with someone, they invite you to their home, they introduce you to their family, they welcome you and offer you tea. On the other hand, in France such a thing does not exist. Nobody pays attention to anybody else and nobody trusts each other. I can see these two cultural differences, of course. But what’s good in France, and it’s good in Paris, is that the only thing I have here is security. Only security, and as I said earlier, it’s the mixture of different cultures that has made the city so beautiful.
[i] Was it only the security that made you come to France?
[r] Uh, well, you see, if we’re talking about security, well, if that’s really it. So all the people from all the countries where there is war have to flee. But my problems were personal because I was someone who was a government employee and I worked in the government and was an active young person I worked in the media sector and worked for the Afghan government For me, life in Afghanistan was rooted as if in a room there was a person who could go nowhere from that room I was very confined and had many security problems I had no other solution than to leave my homeland I’ll give you an example. If you are talking about rich people, does it matter if someone, a French person, a European, an American, it doesn’t matter where they are from, we are all human beings. If we offer them billions, will a person leave their friend, their father, their mother, their family, the people they grew up with? And you don’t know when you’re leaving, you don’t know where you’re going? Will I die on the way, will I drown in the sea, or will the smuggler sell me to others to make money? That was the main reason for my departure. That I, They say ‘journey to heaven’ I, I have ‘travelled to heaven’ I set off for the sky, I didn’t even know which galaxy I would end up in and it wasn’t under my control, I had no choice but to leave my homeland. Because I had security problems, I was a very active young man I was in the field of poetry, I was of course a civil servant. Sometimes, through the media, I encouraged people to work with the Afghan government And all of this brought me fear and threats, when people would look at me on the TV screen and I would talk and encourage young people and I would receive private calls on my phone that would ask me why I was doing all this Come and work with us and I would refuse and say that I was serving my country In the end, the only solution was to leave my homeland
[i] Is leaving your homeland a regret for you or another fortune? What did you gain?
[r] There are two different things, OK. There are two different paths. On the one hand, I regret why I left and on the other hand, or in the other way, I don’t regret leaving and going elsewhere. Well, I said that when I lived there I was calm, very calm, I mean, I never knew who paid the electricity, or the rent, or cooked the meals, and I didn’t know what stress meant, I didn’t even know the word ‘stress’. My life was full of joy, full of affection, full of happiness and full of development. I saw myself developing every day and also in the field of poetry and literature. I wrote poetry. I was active among young people. I was happy, I was happy night and day. I was so happy that I didn’t know if it was day or night. I only knew that I was making progress. On that side I am sad, because If I had stayed in Afghanistan and had not encountered the problems I mentioned earlier. Maybe I would have a doctorate now, and maybe I would have books of poetry. And maybe I would have made good progress. In the same way as my friends have done. Most of my friends are diplomats in different places, they work, they are university professors. And so on that side, I have not progressed and I am sad why I left my country, because Afghanistan needs me today. I am one of Afghanistan’s young people and I could do a lot of things for the country with all my energy. And on the other hand, I’m not sad, because if I hadn’t left my country, I might have been killed. So where did I find this experience? Where did I find the cultures? Where did I find this diversity? How could I get to know the world? How did I get to know people? How did I get to know civilisation? In that respect, I’m happy even if it was hard. Life was hard, and I experienced many other problems in my life. And when I left my country, I went through some hard times that I never imagined, as the French would say. And I went through all these moments in my life. It was really hard. On the other hand, I’m glad that today I’m in charge of my life and I understand what life means. On that side, I have no regrets. Because I’m in touch with another world, I’m in touch with other people and I know what others think of me and what I think of others.
[i] You say that coming here makes you feel safe? And that you learn about other cultures and civilisations?
[r] Yes, for me safety is a priority. Because without safety Without safety, nowhere in the world can culture be built In other words, all over the world, we see the issue of safety first. And I am happy that I am here and I am safe. And secondly, I see myself as very rich in cultural terms. Today I speak French, not very fluently, but I have no problem, I am in contact with society and I have many friends today from all countries in western and eastern Europe, as far as Iran, Israel and the United States of America, and I can see that there is no difference between them and me. In general, we are all human beings. The language is the only difference. When we know how to speak the language and respect each other’s culture, we can be friends and very close to each other. So, I am very happy about that. I live in a civilised country in France and in Paris. Especially in Paris, because I’ve never liked leaving Paris. Because I love Paris for its cultural mix. And wherever you go, people are nice to you, and it’s natural that we should be nice to each other too. We say we’re from Afghanistan and we have a laugh with people and we tell each other interesting things. So I’m happy from that point of view.
[i] So you started your life in Paris in 2010?
[r] Yes, I came to Paris for reasons that I was deported, and I was sent back to Hungary in 2010. I spent five months there with a lot of difficulties and if I tell you all about it in detail, it might be very sad for you too to realise how hard it was. The person who has never thought about food and who has never thought about clothing who was born in the best of circumstances and in happiness. And he finds himself waiting three hours behind the queue for a glass of coffee or a glass of tea, that’s four hours of waiting. He has no shoes, no socks, no clothes and nothing. And it’s very hard. The person who has a job, who has a job in Afghanistan and has a salary and who leaves everything behind and comes here and feels alone, well, so in such a situation I’m not going to go into detail so that it’s not tiring.
[i] Is that the living situation in Paris when you arrived?
[r] Yes, that was life in Paris when I arrived in 2010. Well, anyway, if we talk about details, it will make you sad. When I was sent back to Hungary, suddenly, 5 months in Paris with all the situations I’ve just explained…
[i] Talk to us however you want to explain things.
[r] Ah, in the same way that I have just expressed that I have undergone many difficulties, and finally … I spoke earlier… after five months I was sent back to Hungary because it was the Dublin question and I didn’t want to stay in Hungary. I like all nationalities and all places in the world and I like all countries, but it wasn’t the right place for me. Because my world was the world of literature and I could only find this world of literature in Paris. Because I knew that Paris was the land of Victor Hugo, I knew French history beforehand I understood French culture, even though in Afghanistan I worked with Norwegians and Austrians. That means that when I was in the government and as part of the state, I was someone who at least had relations with these people at the time they were working in Afghanistan. And they knew me, although we had contact by telephone and e-mail, and they said that if I ever travelled to their country, they would be very happy, despite all this contact and knowledge of these people, if I went to Norway. These people wanted me to stay there. Because if I said that I did all those things in Afghanistan for them they would believe it but I loved France because here they didn’t bother people much. They didn’t have that nasty look that I saw elsewhere. Ehh, the French are socialists. Socialists are people who, for the most part, uhh, don’t have that nasty look. And they see the beauty of this cultural diversity. So after five months back, I was imprisoned for six months in Hungary, and they asked me, ‘Why did you go to France?’ Then I went back from there to France, in the same way as before. With a lot of difficulty, under the seat, on the train we hid so that the police wouldn’t catch me hahahahaha I hid left and right… finally, I went back to Paris. And again I didn’t know anyone here where I was going, who I should go to and and… well, like that, I wasn’t someone who felt weak because I hadn’t seen that kind of life and not those kinds of difficulties either I told myself that they are all experiences and poetry for me… poetry cheered me up the poetry of Mawlana cheered me up the poetry of Hafiz and Bidel cheered me up. When I read the poetry I said to myself that… the poetry of Omar Khiam cheered me up and I said that time will pass… and there will be day and I said a poem in the same rhythm I have ‘One day I sat in the corner of the prison’ ‘tired of life forever and life tired of history’ ‘I thought’ “There was the pen and me” “There was the paper, there was God” “The prison was full of people like me” “They too complained like wounded birds in the sky and said” ’Why do history and time make us suffer?’ ‘With whom I could sit and with whom I could talk’ “With whomsoever I spoke, they would talk about their own culture” “I would say to myself, if the day comes” “that this window will open” “And I could fly with my own wings” ’and sit in a corner of this big world’ ‘and that was the goal of my life’ with this poetry, the poetry that I said myself, and I wrote it with my handwriting with this poetry I gave myself hope I knew people, friends who became crowds and were destroyed when they lived a difficult life in Europe and lost everything their mentality, their ideas and everything On the other hand, I I wrote poetry when I saw that there was no other solution I wrote something and told myself that it was a flight it was a life, it was an experience, and there would come a day when everything would be better and the day when I would find myself so, I came back to France and then, for a short while I went to a French language school I have already said that I did not go to a French language school for a long time Even today if I speak French today I learned it on my own I read magazines, newspapers and books here, I have almost a hundred books in French I read when I have free time and so, at a French friend’s house. At the time I had no accommodation and he put me up at his place for a while. And I went to school at the same time to learn the language. After a very long time, three years, they accepted me and granted me papers and finally my fingerprints were erased. And I didn’t even ask for a cent from the French state. I wasn’t given it and I didn’t ask for it either. Even after I got my status, I was told to go and get what was rightfully mine. I said no, I don’t want to. I didn’t want to be seen as a migrant queuing up to ask for money. On the contrary, I wanted to stand on my own two feet. I wanted to move forward, I didn’t want to be a young person that others looked at in a negative way. I wanted to do something so that people would say that he can do it too and that he is like us. I felt embarrassed to go and ask the French state for money, and I told myself that I have to give money to the state so that the state can build itself up, because I lived here. There is no difference in countries for me, it is only men who say your country and my country, on the contrary it is the land of all human beings. It’s true that there are borders and border issues in the world, that’s the truth of life. On the other hand, in principle, the Earth is for all human beings, and I don’t feel landless. Why? Because, when I talk to one of my compatriots, when I talk to him, I see myself in the same mirror as him, and when I talk to a Frenchman, I also see myself in his mirror. I see that there is no difference between him and me, except that the difference is in our ideas: if we are optimistic and we love the world and people, everyone loves us.
[i] Your relationship with culture, poetry and literature is obviously very close. What memories do you have of the city of Paris? Did it help you to nurture these relationships?
[r] Well, without a doubt, there is a long-term project and there is a short-term project eh When I was in Afghanistan I studied a lot of Persian books and I also recited a lot of poetry, on the other hand when I entered France and got caught up in things here, So, I no longer had the opportunity to write poetry in Persian languages, on the other hand the poetry that I had already said at the time when I was in the eleventh year of high school even before integrating the university eh, in the magazine of parliament in the name of Itesam, my poetry was published in it, and this poetry was about my country I described that my country has beautiful rivers, beautiful mountains, beautiful gazelles and so it goes on… and I brought the same magazine all the way to France. and when I had an appointment at the OFPRA about my journey in Afghanistan and for my file, and so, they took the magazine and I had photocopied the paper in which my poetry was published and this magazine…the thing I brought with me from Afghanistan. This is the photo taken in my office, you see, and it was my office where I worked here and it
[i] What exactly did you do?
[r] Specifically, I was in the security sector and I worked in the secretariat of the provincial security command of Frayab province. and I set up the relations between the foreigners and the security officials of Faryab province, who were mainly Americans, Norwegians and Austrians. My job was to prepare visits by security officials and provincial leaders with the people of the province. And I can say that I was a spokesperson for a few months, for example, when there were situations in the city, I was sent to talk to the radio and TV stations. And this is the photo I have lots of memories of Afghanistan and I have lots of memories of that, it was the best period of my life and secondly it’s my poetry You can see that I was very small at the time and that I was too young, I hadn’t even reached the age of eighteen when I wrote this poetry. If you want to Because my whole presentation is written on this poetry paper and it was published by the magazine that is with the French judge now I hope to receive feedback from the magazine one day I tell in my poetry: He recites a poem about his country and his region… He talks about the mountains, his beautiful landscapes He talks about his beautiful gardens… He talks about the birds singing and the gazelles jumping… The rivers that flow so pleasantly The mountains of Badakhshan Province. He invites the others that he also recites and that they sing with him… He talks about himself in these words to win the hearts of others He talks about a glass of drink These are memories from my adolescence, and I brought it with me from Afghanistan, I love it very much and I have kept it even until today I have kept it even in the worst situation I have experienced and the original of this magazine, I hope it comes back to me one day
[i] According to your poetry, your relationship with your homeland seems very strong, does life in Paris bring back memories of your country and your region? The city of Paris, what is the relationship of your poetry with this city and how do you see it?
[r] It’s normal, for everyone their homeland is very dear. We have just said that human beings have no borders. The truth is that if… a Frenchman who lives in the countryside, despite being French as much as he loves the countryside, does not love Paris as much. Someone who lives in Manchester in England or in Birmingham, if you take them to London, will miss their hometown and say that Birmingham is much more beautiful for me. Because memories, childhood memories, are things that are part of the nature of the human person. The place where each person is born is beautiful, and therefore eh I always think of my homeland I like my homeland and I will love it Because I grew up there, I was born there The second thing is that I like it here too Because my second homeland is France, the place where I breathe now. The place where I live now, the place where I have been respected. So, I can say that I love all the countries in the world and especially these two, Afghanistan and France, because I have not lived anywhere else. When you don’t live in other environments, you don’t know the different cultures well, so I feel very at ease here. Oh, I have lots of memories of my country too, when I was with friends, when I went to school, when we were having fun, when we were with the family. There are almost two different cultures between here and there.
[i] And, do you live alone in the city of Paris?
[r] In the city of Paris, yes. But among the members of my family, it’s more like my brothers are there. And they are a bit far from Paris. Because we are all almost caught up in everyday life and our studies, and I am someone who sleeps four hours during those twenty-four hours of night and day. Except on weekends when I get a good rest. From Monday to Friday, I sleep four hours during those twenty-four hours. That’s because I start work at 3pm and work until half past midnight and I get home around 1.30am. And it takes me almost an hour to fall asleep because I don’t fall asleep straight away, and I still wake up at 6am. I get ready, study a little and go to university. And so, work and university, work and university. So I don’t have much opportunity, and I spend almost four hours at home and most of the time outside, either in the library or at university, or generally at work. So, for these reasons, I can’t see my brothers often. They are also busy. They are also very busy, maybe in two weeks or three weeks we see each other once, otherwise, we don’t see each other easily. And so, I can say that I am all alone. On that side I am alone in this apartment.
[i] The stress of the city of Paris due to work and studies doesn’t really leave you time to meet your brothers?
[r] Yes, I definitely miss my brothers a lot sometimes. And they always call me and say, come on, let’s meet up this week or in two weeks, but they know that I’m busier than them because I really wanted to progress. I said to them, okay, maybe we could meet up next week. But I don’t think it’s going to be possible. And so for a month, sometimes more, a month, two months and three months and when it’s exam time I can’t see them, and it’s very difficult. Even though they are close to Paris and not that far from Paris. And so we are all busy here, the difference between Afghanistan and France to tell you clearly that people are tired here, they are sad What we see here is that people are sad and they get angry more easily. People get angry very quickly in Paris and I haven’t lived anywhere else in France as much as Paris. In Afghanistan people are not the same, people are full of joy They are happy even if they have work or not, whereas here we see that people are sad and stressed when they don’t have work and they are still sad and stressed when they do have work. So what is my role? My role is that, as I have become accustomed to it with everyone I have already experienced during the very hard period when I was coming here from Afghanistan for a year and a half, which was really tough. And as I got used to such a situation, I told myself that I would move forward and move forward, and in the end, I lost a lot of time coming here from Afghanistan, and it was a lost time, as I said, that my friends now have doctorates. Some of them are university professors, they are doctors. I am not a materialist and I don’t think too much about everyday things. I just want a place to sleep and to progress with my studies. All the challenges I face in my life are having a place to live and being able to continue my studies. That’s why I work 20 hours a day. And the other difference I just mentioned is that here people are tired and stressed, unlike where I lived before in Afghanistan. Over there, people are happy, they play music, there is music in the restaurant and people listen to music in their cars. Even people listen to music when they ride their bikes. On the contrary, here you hear people are stressed and sad. And so in general I try not to feel sad. And I try to move forward and progress. And if I hear someone who is sad I try to make them smile. That’s my role. and the gift of joy
[i] So, which part of Paris do you live in? Tell us a bit about your neighbourhood here in Paris?
[r] I’ve lived in different parts of Paris, of course, and when I arrived in France I lived in the Invalides neighbourhood. Uh, then I lived in the Porte d’Orléans near Paris and then in Marx Dormoy in the 18th arrondissement. I stayed there for almost three years. And now I live in the 20th arrondissement of Paris, in the Menilmontant neighbourhood. Menilmontant is a neighbourhood where you can see the cultural diversity. There are different types of people here, different races and different languages. And the people are good, there are lots of cafés and the doors are open for chatting with people. And often when I go to a café and I talk to family or friends in Persian, people have come up to me asking me what language I was speaking, and I replied in Persian. so we started chatting, and people even came to my place, and I have lots of friends in the Menilmontant neighbourhood. and there’s a library in Menilmontant, where I go to study and I also hang out with people there. we became friends in the end, I try to be in touch with the people where I live. And my role is that I love people, it’s not important to me who they are, where they come from, what language they speak, what their religion is, what their culture is. For me, what’s important is that they are human beings, and that’s important to me. My role is a human role, and so I can link the East with the West. That’s my objective. And how I can When people who think about migrants from Afghanistan about what they hear in the media, TV or radio, mostly it’s not really the reality, it’s media stuff and very different from the real life of people in Afghanistan There are people who live well and are peaceful, many people are happy with their lives and don’t like to leave their countries. And so, wherever I go, I try to communicate with people and explain and show the culture of the Afghan people to them. And that we are like you and you are like us. Human beings have their failings, but through communication and exchange they can bridge the gaps.
[i] And so you have a lot of communication and contact with society, with the people in your neighbourhood and even with your fellow Afghans?
[r] In general, I am in contact with everyone, even with my next-door neighbours, the one in front of me, the one above and the one below. And I am in contact with all these people there with my compatriots, I am of course in contact with them. Where I work, there are Afghans as well as other nationalities. On the other hand, my role is also to learn, I am in a phase of learning and experience. For example, I see a person from the Congo, I am delighted to talk to him and to find out what he thinks about life? what exists in his country? that I don’t know. or I don’t know, or I didn’t hear. another person of a different nationality, so I really like to keep learning. so, I’m not only in contact with Afghans, I’m also in contact with other people from elsewhere. with everyone in general, with neighbours, with people outside. It’s not possible to communicate with everyone. It’s impossible, there are people who don’t want to. However, I try to find someone with whom I can communicate.
[i] Tell us a little about your work?
[r] I work in the place where I first came to France. And I endured very harsh conditions. And at the time it was hard, and so I work in the environment where I myself lived as a migrant, and now I work there. And interpreting, helping them show the address of the place they are going to. And solving the problems they encounter. Their administrative procedures too. And I help them with that. That’s my job at the moment. And at the same time as I work, I’m a student at the University of Paris 8 in political science, and my aim is to show a positive image of Afghanistan to people all over the world or to present When I went to university and started my studies there, there were a lot of people in the class. Mostly French. Because the political science programme is a bit tough and the people who come there try to improve their French. And I had no contact with these people and I didn’t know them. I didn’t know who I could talk to about solving the problems I had encountered. On the other hand, little by little my classmates asked me where I came from… I come to reveal that my role is to make people laugh, wherever I am or whatever I do. I try to be in contact with people, and I am not an isolated person, as the French said. I am someone who tries to be in contact with people. And now I’m studying at the University of Paris 8 and I’m getting on well with people there. And we’re in the process of setting up an association there, which will be able to help Afghan migrants find the right path that they have lost like me, and that I didn’t know how to integrate into higher education. How and who is going to help me and that wasn’t clear to me either. Finally, uhh I found the way with the help of my friends and now I’m at university and I decided to the negative things about my country have already been spread too much and people have heard it all. what’s more, most of what the media broadcasts is not accurate or real. and maybe sometimes they’ve exaggerated. And my role. Why I study at university, and specifically why I study political science, is because I can discover the main problems of my country. And to know it. and that I am an ambassador and a link between Afghanistan and the West. and I show the positive image that others only have in the media. which are Afghan culture Afghan literature and poetry, Afghan music, Afghan hospitality, the friendship of the Afghan people, the kindness and generosity of the Afghan people. That’s what I want to show here. I often invited my friends and comrades to my place. There were nights when I had guests, more than 15 people, 20 people, even 30 people. We played music, we laughed, we talked about different subjects from my country, about people and culture, and so my role is to give a positive image. And that it’s not a false image. A real image of Afghan society, because I wasn’t in France when I was little. I came when I was an adult And I understand things very well in Afghanistan. So, for these reasons, I can say that I continued my studies and I would continue to do so. If you ask me what I love most in the world, what would it be? What are your dreams in life? I would answer that I want nothing in this world, nothing at all. I want nothing materially, even if I remain without shelter, without food. On the other hand, I am continuing my studies to the extent that a human being can do so. When I talk about humanity, I don’t set limits to the last point I can. I do research and serve science and humanity. Not only for Afghans, but for the whole world. I hope there is peace and security. And that I can show the right path to others. And so that’s my role, and I started from that point. I know there are problems and it’s not easy, but I’m sure I can do it, and I can get through it. I’m going to be calm at that moment and continue to serve people.
[i] How much has the city of Paris been able to help you in your projects and provide you with everything you need to achieve what you want?
[r] Of course, Paris not only for me, but for everyone and the inhabitants, the French or those who come from elsewhere in total. Specifically in education it is much more provided in my opinion. Unlike other cities, Paris has its own problems too. the problems and difficulties of life that exist in Paris. There are many difficulties, but with perseverance you can solve the problems. So you have to work, and you have to be patient in Paris, because Paris is a stressful place. You have to accept all these problems, you have to prepare yourself for all these problems. There is a lot of bureaucracy in Paris. The administrative procedures are so complicated that sometimes I say these administrative procedures really tire me out. hahaha, you have to set aside about 3 to 4 hours a day to do the administrative procedures. So it’s very tiring. And it really takes time, there are so many administrative procedures. ha haha ha, Paris tires people out with all these administrative procedures. The administrative system is very complicated. It’s very complicated.
[i] Well, food is part of a country’s culture, what do you think of French gastronomy and particularly in Paris?
[i] ha ha ha You’re talking about something that’s very good eh, I really like French food, I especially like French cakes with strawberries and other fruits, like apples, which are part of French gastronomy. It’s true that France is famous for its gastronomy throughout the world. For example, broccoli, ratatouille, lasagne and moussaka, which I really like and find really interesting. Not only French food, food from other European countries, I have eaten a lot of European food.
[i] Do you cook it or do you eat it in a restaurant?
[r] No, in restaurants with friends. For example, one day we decided to eat in a Pakistani, Indian, or Japanese or Chinese or French or German restaurant. I have eaten almost every French speciality. It is a very healthy meal, without too much fat
[i] It is not very bad for your health?
[r] Well, there are meals that are not good for your health, but on the other hand there are many good things, many natural things. In my opinion, they are organic
[i] You didn’t get sick until then?
[r] By everything. The meal is not something to make you sick, especially the French meal haha
[i] What do you think of social relations in Paris? With all these cultural differences, how did you find yourself in the city of Paris?
[r] Well, when you live in a society, and when you enter a society, I mentioned earlier that you have to speak the language of that society. When you know how to speak the language of the society, you can find the secrets that exist in that society. What do they hate about people and what do they like? What do they prefer and what do they not prefer? What do they respect here and what do they not respect? If you take someone from a different country, for example Afghanistan or Iran, where the culture is almost the same as ours, there are things that are not bad there but that are bad in France. There are many things that are bad here, but good there. In the same way when you live in a society like France For example, I asked my French friends what they like and what they hate? Finally, with the communication we had and the discussion I tried to enter society, for example I went to the theatre with my friends. or I went to the cinema with my friends. French people like the theatre and the cinema. And it’s really something good, you learn a lot of things in the theatre and the cinema. There are a lot of real things in society and on the other hand you are not told these things directly. On the other hand, the artist can express it in a different way and people can understand what is bad. Films, cinema are good things.
[i] Does that mean that freedom of expression is restricted here? And that it has to be expressed indirectly in France and especially in Paris?
[r] Freedom, in my view, in every corner of the world, there are restrictions on freedom, so that we say that 100 per cent freedom does not exist, it is just written on paper or in books and people have signed it, but it does not really apply 100 per cent in any corner of the world. and it is not applicable and it is impossible, if we say that in France, there is 100 percent freedom. and it is impossible Because Human beings have problems, and their problem naturally is that they want to be above others. and this feeling causes restrictions on freedoms. If I give you an example, let’s say that if you go out on the street to walk, if a person is laughing and you go and do the same thing and try to make fun of them, maybe they won’t say anything to you, but the second person or even the third person won’t allow you to make fun of them, and they will be angry. And so, freedom does not exist and does not apply 100 per cent. It’s the same thing here. There are many frameworks for freedom, there are limits to freedom in France. So in this way of 100 per cent equality, fraternity and freedom does not exist. From my point of view, but that’s the reality. Maybe there are people who are angry with me, but that’s the reality. If you talk about democracy and freedom, so people who are from any corner of the world, it doesn’t matter where they are from. See how many people sleep on the streets in Paris? Without considering their race, without considering whether they are French or not, the fact that there are so many people on the streets, isn’t that freedom for them? Doesn’t the French government have a budget for the homeless, especially as the majority are old and dying because of the winter? Isn’t it possible to house them somewhere? So, freedom exists but not one hundred per cent. There is freedom in France, France is a free country and a country of civilisation and culture. But one hundred per cent freedom, I don’t agree, as a political science student. And so I don’t agree that there is one hundred per cent freedom in France. On the other hand, freedom exists in France more than in other countries of the world.
[i] You started your life in Paris in 2010, and now you have a job and you help others in the course of your work, what other activities and productivity do you foresee in Paris?
[r] Well, life is like a wave, when a person enters a river, water without a wave really doesn’t mean a river. life is entirely like a wave that has ups and downs. You have to adapt to the waves. The wave behind you is not the same as the one in front of you, so there are no two identical waves in the river. And so, as I explained to you earlier, when I was living in Afghanistan, and how I was living a few years ago and how I am living now, at one point in my life I couldn’t speak French. I couldn’t even say hello. However, today I am a student, today I work in the place where I lived a few years ago as a civil servant, I am respected there because I serve them and I work for them with all my heart. I am not there as a simple employee or just thinking about a salary, because when I see someone in difficulty it brings back memories, the moments I have experienced myself. And so, I serve them from the bottom of my heart. This year, 2018, I’m at university, and 2019 has to be a better year than this one for me. I need to speak the language fluently and at an academic level, I need to get good grades at university. I want to write a book in a year’s time, I just need help. There is someone who is willing to help me, and is willing to write it until 2019 ehh, (about my journey and my time there) I am willing to write about my life, how I spent this year and a half travelling from Afghanistan to France, how it went. I want to tell the reality of my life, what I thought and what happened to me. That’s my plan, it’s the plan to learn and to serve the world. I want to progress day by day. In 2020, I’ll finish my degree, 2021 must be the year of my master’s degree. In 2023, I want to be better, and I want to, if I have the opportunity, do the last semester of my final year in another country. Like New Zealand, I would like to see how people live there, what their culture and civilisation are like and how people think. I want to learn and spend a semester there. My life was always like an essay, I always tried to get ahead if a French person works eight hours, then I have to work twelve hours. Because he has every opportunity, he knows his language very well, he has a roof over his head, he has a life here, he knows the society and the people well, he knows the way of life here, so he has learnt since childhood, and I therefore have to work four hours more than him to find the same things. And if I want to get ahead in this society, I can’t stay behind because if I don’t work here and study, I’ll be a burden for France. I don’t want other people to help me materially or think that I’m here to take advantage of them. No, I want to be someone who is useful to others, in a positive way, not a negative way. I want to serve through my book, through my thoughts, through my work through literature and poetry The cultural relations between France and maybe I write poetry in French and I could link the East with the West. I want to be that kind of person, I don’t want to be someone who has just come to France to do business and buy furniture. They have no value for me, for me material life and luxury are not important at all. I let it come, but I haven’t thought about it and I never think about it. The happiest moment of my life will be when my book is published, and the best part of my life will be when people read my thoughts and my ideas as an Afghan. And also to know what I think, and how? What is Max Weber and Adam Smith? Weren’t they migrants? Max Weber was from Hungary, he was a migrant, he went to Austria from Austria and then he went to England. And he couldn’t live there, so he went to the United States. It was also complicated for him and finally he went to live between the United States of America and Canada, but what is important today is that these considerations are studied in universities. We too, if we cannot become Max Weber, can at least serve in the field of literature and poetry, we can unite and bind societies through culture. My French friends read the poet Omar Khayyam, who did not think of himself alone. He did not even think for a single society, or even for a nation. He thought of the whole world, he loved the whole world. He loved people, he loved humanity. When we talk about people and humanity, it’s not just a slogan, it has to come from our conviction. And we love everyone. Regardless of race, colour, language, whatever, we just have to love them. And my goal is that we must progress, not only me, but my friends too must progress and like that, it doesn’t matter if he is French or from somewhere else. The people who travel with me have to work like me twenty hours a day. He has to work. He pays taxes to the French government and he has to have a roof to live under, he has to study at the same time and he has to play sports. And so, such a person will be able to travel with me in life. It is impossible to sleep and say that you are going to progress, you have to move forward, keep moving and work. And it is not possible with tears either. It is not possible with tears, the person who cries is a sign of his weakness. You always have to smile and fight in life. and say that I can do it. and in the end that’s how we achieve our goals, even if I work twenty hours, I’m never tired. and I know that I’m doing something positive, I know that I can change the image of my country and I have to work. Because other people in the world think differently and they don’t think that I am like them, that I like what they like, that I think the same way they think. The difference is only in what we have already heard, what we have heard and what we have never seen. We have not reflected academically on the phenomena, and I want to work on this so that people reflect academically. They must reflect in a real way. And they must see why the Afghans have emigrated? And they must see the source. They must see what the reality of their lives is. As I said earlier, no one else has ever left their country, I personally don’t like it. I had no problems in life, no material problems. There is no such thing as material in Europe. That’s the truth. There is no such thing as everything, the only thing that exists is security. The Afghan people are looking for security. It is a country with abundant natural resources, petrol and oil. Uranium, diamonds. Just imagine, Afghanistan is four times richer than Saudi Arabia. It is just that we don’t have security. Our problem is the security problem. I’m not going to talk about politics here. As a young student of political science, I know full well that it’s not about internal problems. But the reason I came to France is so that people don’t look at me with disapproval. They should see the depth of the problems I’ve encountered. They can see and analyse why I really came here. Immigration has existed for centuries in the world. Immigration is for different reasons. They need to see clearly the manner and the way in which a person immigrates. In my opinion, we must love and respect all human beings.
[i] Is the city of Paris the ideal place for you to realise your dreams and objectives?
[i] You have to be grateful, as they say in Persian. You have to respect society, because they respect you. You have to respect a society and the people who are grateful to it. That society respected us and opened its doors to us. Today we live in that country. Both my neighbours are French, and sometimes when I have guests and I’m short of things at home, I go and knock on my neighbour’s door and ask for plates, for example, so that I can serve my guests properly. And they help me without any problem. I think so, with my efforts I try to prepare the means to achieve my dreams. There are many executives among the migrants. So, we mustn’t leave these executives out in the cold. We mustn’t let time pass us by; we just have to try to provide a little peace of mind and some means for these people. When a migrant comes here, he doesn’t know the administration and as soon as he arrives, the administrative procedures begin. The poor migrant goes crazy because of all these procedures. I know lots of people who have mental health problems because of it. You just have to give them a little time to integrate a bit and learn the language, and then it doesn’t matter if the procedures start at this stage. Well, they say that’s how society is, there are a lot of administrative procedures for everyone. But when he receives a piece of paper that he has to send to someone else to read, he receives so much paper that he doesn’t know where to go. The other problem in France is that in the administration, responsibilities are shared and sometimes vague. They send you from the west to the east of Paris for the same procedure hahahaha When you go to the east of Paris, they tell you that it’s not here and you have to go back to the west, and it’s very tiring. I’ve been so tired of it ever since, and not just me, but all my friends are fed up with it. Things need to be simplified a little, associations need to be set up to help people move forward. I see a lot of intelligent young people, architects, among my compatriots, we have young people who have Master’s degrees from India. They have degrees from Japan, why aren’t we using these skills? I have Afghan friends who have come to France, they have papers and he has a master’s degree from Japan, a country where technology is very advanced in architecture. There are young people who have degrees in computer science, so why don’t we use these skills and let them get lost in stressful administrative procedures. And one moment they all forget that they have already studied for years. Programmes must be put in place to use these skills and these ideas so that they do not disappear. I say again that there are Max Webers among these migrants, there are hidden skills to be discovered. They must be sought out and found, there are plenty of these people. I am in direct contact with them. There are people who were pilots in their own countries. Why don’t we make use of these experiences of ten years and the years they spent studying? Perhaps they are doing something innovative for the first time in France that didn’t exist before. Why don’t we use them? He was a pilot, he had a job and a life there, he took refuge here and left everything behind because he was having problems, but here he is having mental problems, why? Because of the administrative procedures, going left, right and everywhere for all these procedures. It’s stressful. We are asked why you don’t speak French. Madam, sir, it is not possible to learn the French language in two days. When they ask me why I don’t speak the language, they should first ask where is the school where I go to learn the language? How can I learn the language? First I have to look for food and accommodation, which there isn’t, and then look for somewhere to learn the language. What do I think of first? These basic needs or learning the language? They need to prepare the means first, especially France. It needs to count on these migrants. They need to use these ideas, even a shepherd when he comes here, maybe he has a new experience and it needs to be used. So everyone can do something, they need to be useful and not ignored. Finally, we must not ignore the migrants. Because each and every one of these people has left a life behind and is living here with hope. So we must not do things to eliminate these hopes and destroy these values.
[i] Do you have anything else to add?
[r] Ahh, my comments were what I said, everything
[i] Maybe there are still things left or have you forgotten something?
[r] I don’t think so, I’ve talked a lot and said a lot of things, and I don’t have anything special left. I would like to thank the French government again for giving me the opportunity to study as a student and there is no difference between me and a French person. And I hope that these opportunities will be given to everyone, I’m not just talking about Afghan migrants but about everyone. They are still trying to help migrants and use them positively and not negatively. That’s all, thank you too
[i] Thank you too,
[r] You’re welcome and have a good evening.