SU_B_40

[i] Today is September 16, 2019 It is Sunday, no Monday, Mr. [name] is with me.
[r] It’s 4 p.m.
[i] Thank you for taking the time for me today and for being willing to do the interview, welcome.
[r] I would also like to thank you for the work you do. For service to your club, to your people and to your friends.
[i] I would like to ask you when you came to Germany, what did you have with you as a reminder?
[r] When I came to Germany, I had no property because everything was under state control, both material and spiritual. The fascist Turkish state didn’t leave us anything, specifically I had my prosthesis with me.
[i] Own prosthesis, interesting, how does it work, can you tell us?
[r] I have my feet, I put it this way, I left half of my body there. Instead, I brought the prosthesis here. I’m here for political reasons.
[i] Can we see your prosthesis? It’s interesting and we know we’re causing you trouble. Ah, can you hold it up so the camera can record it?
[r] How often did I have them […], one reason was my condition. Mainly for political reasons, another reason was I wanted to get better health care for my feet. It’s not bad, I have two prostheses, I’ve had two operations here. In fact, I had my foot amputated back home. The amputation of my feet took place in the mountains, burns in the snow
[i] Please hold up your prosthesis because what you have with you is very strange. It’s the first time we’ve seen something like this, everyone takes something with them, but a prosthesis?
[r] When you told me to hold up your prosthetics, I remembered an incident when my feet were amputated. My comrades there asked me to keep my feet up so they could take a photo both feet had turned black, so both feet were removed from the knee down, I was operated on twice in Germany the photo, I don’t know if I still have it, I’ll have to look for it. When you told me to hold up your prosthesis, I remembered back then. My feet are buried in the snow, in the Zagros Mountains.
[i] What year was that?
[r] I guessed it was in 1989, 1990 or something I may have forgotten the year too.
[i] About 30 years ago, a lifetime.
[r] 30 years is correct.
[i] Can you tell us how it happened?
[r] As you know, there was a coup on September 12, 1980, there were fires everywhere. Everything Kurdish was banned by the state, everything except Turkish was rejected, a single language, a single nation, nothing was accepted except the Turks. They didn’t want the Kurds at all because they were one of the oldest peoples. In fact, they came to Kurdistan, that’s why they hated Kurds. They are afraid of Kurds and Kurdistan, when fascism came on September 12th, you could no longer live there, I was even a civil servant, I’m a teacher by profession. Our financial situation was good, we lived in a village. We couldn’t stay there anymore, the state didn’t even tolerate the smell of Kurds, the approach to politics, knowledge of humanity, let alone accept the Kurds. I had to flee, we fled to the mountains, We met the guerrillas there and we joined them. We were with them for a few years, in Zagros, south, east, north and west [Kurdistan]. We hiked for days, sometimes we met people and guerrilla propagandists, we made propaganda in the villages and at the borders, we reported on the cruelty of the Turkish state against us. We told them about the solution of freedom, liberation and about democracy when we told them that, the people organized themselves, young people joined the guerrillas, Once we joined a group, it was winter, we had the Pain all the time, we wanted to go to a place where there were trees, it snowed a lot this winter, in Kurdistan, on the border between Türkiye, Iran and Iraq,
[i] It’s called the devil’s triangle.
[r] Yes, that’s how they say it. We were in pain the whole time, we wanted to go to a place where there were trees. We didn’t make it, got stuck in the snow, about ten, eleven hours, we got there in ten days. There we lost our feet, out of fifteen people, nine lost their limbs. A friend knew a lot about medicine, I can tell an anecdote from back then. A friend went to the doctor. A friend brought a doctor from East Kurdistan who might be able to treat us. who was able to give us some treatment so that the feet didn’t have to be amputated, actually we knew that the feet had to go. Because the feet were black, no feeling anymore and more and more pain. We could no longer eat; these symptoms indicated burn symptoms. A doctor came to anesthetize to apply the anesthesia needle. This hadn’t worked. That’s why he had to cut off the limbs without anesthetics. This doctor was very timid. Maybe he didn’t want to cause us pain or I don’t know […]. A friend had his fingers amputated, later he was martyred, his name was [name], from Heskif [Turkish Hasankeyf], we knew each other from before, despite our condition we joked, our morale was very high. If morale had been low, none of us would have survived. So we were very motivated. Veli said to the doctor, give me, the doctor’s name was [name], he was from Rojava. Two years ago we even spoke on the phone, He now lives in London, we haven’t met yet, but we’ll see each other soon. He said to Dr. [Name], give me the scalpel, I have slaughtered so many lambs and goats, he said that he could cut better than all [others], took the scalpel and cut off both feet from the knee, [Name] from Hhasankeyf. Other friends lost their hands, feet and heels. The condition of two friends and me was the most difficult. So it happened that my feet were removed, we finally got to a doctor in a city, then we came to Europe and we got real prostheses here. The prosthetics there weren’t useful. This was another reason why I came to Europe. After the injury I could no longer live there. I traveled to the country from time to time, but was unable to do any political, cultural or literary work. I was also able to do political work in other parts of the country, in the south, east and west. In the other countries the political situation also became worse, Friends in Europe were easier to reach.
[i] In what year did you come to Europe?
[r] Europe, I guessed late 1992 or 1993. It was the end of the year, you could say 1993, we came straight to Munich and from there here. Friends had relatives here in Bochum.
[i] How was your arrival in Bochum?
[r] Friends and acquaintances, many from my city of Mardin lived here. Kinship is highly valued by Kurds. They say there are a lot of friends in Bochum, that’s why I came here. It is true that many of my countrymen live here. It was strange living in Europe, we had heard about Europe, but I came to Europe for the first time, they say seeing and hearing are not the same. I saw it was like they said even if everything wasn’t true. Honestly, there is freedom here and there are many options. One can easily continue one’s work and stay in touch with companions. You can do your job within the law. That was also done. The Kurds here have founded Kurdish associations, some of which were already organized. They were successful in the cultural sector. For example, the Kurdish Institute began. in 1994. In 1994, 1995 our parliamentarians fled Turkey. At this time, a parliament in exile was set up in Brussels.
[i] As far as I know, you served in Parliament? Could you tell us about it?
[r] That’s right, I knew some friends from before. They called me when they came to Germany. Comrade Zübeyir Aydar, Remzi Kartal [MP from Turkey], Yasar Kaya, Ali Yigit and Nizamettin Torgus, we knew each other from home. We took part in demonstrations, seminars and Newroz [Kurdish New Year] events. These events often took place in European cities. The countries Germany, Belgium, Netherlands and France are close to each other. We often met in Germany, the Netherlands and Belgium. Because they were close to each other. The Kurds went back and forth between countries. We gathered most in Brussels. I was asked to take part because I had studied and already had political work experience. They knew I published a newspaper. I agreed and started working with them. I was a founding member and also on the board. The abbreviation was PKDW until 1999. Kurdish Parliament in Exile, abbreviation PKDW. This later became the National Congress of Kurdistan, KNK. In 1999 the National Congress of Kurdistan was founded. The aim of the PKDW was to establish the National Congress in Kurdistan. Here too, I was one of the founding members. Until now I am a member of KNK. When I was in Bochum, the Kurdish Red Crescent was founded. Friends had already applied. I am very happy to hear the name of such an institution because I worked in a hospital for seven to eight years, in a hospital in Ankara [capital of Turkey]. Working in the health sector gave me satisfaction, when they founded the Kurdish Red Crescent, I could say, I was more attracted to humanitarian work than politics. Maybe because of my own health problem. I actively worked there for a long time. I was also politically active. But I can say that the place where I was most involved was in the humanitarian sector. Otherwise, I was also active in the Kurdish Institute. I have had relationships with writers about language, my particular interest is language. For example, we went to the other parts of Kurdistan because of the language.
[i] I think you speak a few languages.
[r] I wanted to learn the other language. As is well known, our people are divided into four countries, in one of these countries Arabic was spoken and in the other Persian. For this reason our ears were accustomed to these languages. Arabic was spoken and written in many parts of Kurdistan. I was also curious, so it was easy for me to learn Arabic and Persian. We didn’t need an interpreter when we went south or west. We were able to communicate without an interpreter. Interpreters were not required in either the East, West or South. In my daily life I still speak Arabic and Persian. That’s why there was first a Kurdish institute in Bonn. The institute moved to Berlin, I had connections with the institute. I worked at the Kurdish Institute for a while, I’m still a member. I love languages, I research languages. Unfortunately, I couldn’t learn German.
[i] What is your relationship with the German language?
[r] At school I learned French as a foreign language. You are also interested in language, you also know that French and Kurdish grammar are very close to each other. but German […]. I already said that I’m curious about languages. I learned French for years at school. When I came here, I couldn’t handle German grammar. Still I tried to learn, believe me, I tried to learn for two months. German friends also work at the Kurdish Red Moon, and they also helped with learning German, the employees of the association. And at some point I was able to force myself to learn, I really wanted to learn, I was new here […]. At that time, few had fled here because of Turkish fascism. Those who came here in Europe before were workers. As I said, few have applied for asylum here because of fascism. There were many seminars back then, and I was also invited because of my disability. I should report on my experiences from the countries. I met many compatriots and I would have liked to meet more. I have visited almost every German city.
[i] Surely there are war-disabled people like you?
[r] What I experienced, you can’t come to for years, you can’t get out of the trauma.
[i] You escaped fascism and you faced the challenge of life. You lost both feet, you were a teenager at the time and suddenly you can no longer walk. This is not easy, your work is sacred, not everyone can do it.
[r] This is the main reason why I couldn’t learn German. For this reason I didn’t have time to learn the language. I couldn’t make a plan. I started, but there was work and I had to go to other cities. I went to France, Switzerland and Scandinavia. Everyone knew me, my Kurdish was praised. I had just arrived from the country. We traveled back and forth a lot, what you said is very important. At home we suffered from Turkish fascism from 1980 to 1987. We were thirsty for the Kurdish for seven or eight years. We visited the villages and the people, but we couldn’t talk about our worries. We wanted to find solutions to their problems. We wanted to report on the acts of fascism and also look for a way to name fascism so that we could free ourselves from it. We came here from the mountains. We really longed for political work because we weren’t allowed to do that in our homeland. When we realized what was possible here, We were thrilled and got to work. We didn’t come up with negative things. Every minute we were positive and used the time and were grateful because I met more and more people. We got involved in our clubs and organized ourselves for our people. Associations were founded and then institutions. Mesopotamia Publishing House, Theater, Writers and Music Academy. Events like cultural festivals and seminars all over Europe, as you know. We did both political and cultural work. That’s why I no longer had time to learn languages. Many of our young people could speak the language. That also played a role, if we needed something they supported us. I suffered from state terror and they took away my feet. Of course we want to live like other people. True, I didn’t react emotionally, we were aware of our work. Whether you like it or not, there is a dream and a spirituality. Of course there is a difference between a war disabled person and those who were not physically injured, they don’t react the same way, right? For this reason I paced back and forth. There were also many young people who spoke the language. They always had me […] […] accompanied by a doctor and because I was always supported, I didn’t experience any difficulties. […].
[i] What hurdles did you experience after your arrival in Bochum?
[r] […]. I can say, both in Bochum and throughout Germany and also in Europe, my biggest difficulty, which I regret, was the language. Especially the German language. Because I traveled a lot in Germany, I would have liked to know the German language better. If you know one of the European languages ​​such as German, French or English, then you can express yourself and share your problems with the world. This can only be done through language. You can also make your culture and music known through language. I can say that my only problem so far in Bochum, my difficulty to date, is the language. Of course I have now learned something specific to everyday life, but the grammar is very difficult for me. When asked what my biggest regret is, I say, “Why didn’t I learn the language?” They say that in the next life I would [… ], I would want to learn at least one language other than my mother tongue, as you know, in addition to Kurdish, I also speak Arabic, Turkish and Persian. I speak four languages ​​and all Kurdish dialects. But I would have liked to learn at least a few Latin languages. First German.
[i] What does Bochum mean to you? The city of Bochum.
[r] I can say about Bochum, I came to Bochum and have lived in Bochum for 26 years. I can say [it is] my second home, so second city. The city where I was born is called Derik, which is also as small as Bochum. My home, I can say, is Germany. My second home and city, after my city Derik. I have lived in Bochum longer than in Derik; Derik lived in Derik until I started my training. If we add up, I spent half my life in Derik, the other half in Bochum, half and half. Therefore, if asked, I would say this is my second home. But as the Kurds would say if you ask the nightingale, what is sweetest to you? He would say there is nothing sweeter than my homeland. Nevertheless, this is my second home. No matter what city, no matter what country, like France, Belgium, when I go, I miss Bochum and Germany. It’s always in our heads. It has taken up space in our brains. But still the truth is that our eyes are looking for our homeland. Every now and then I ask myself why I stayed here for so many years. Why did you […]? You will also be asked why you haven’t learned the language. I didn’t want to stay here long. I wanted to see my friends and get some treatment. We thought we would go back and we believed that our homeland would be liberated quickly. We thought there were big fights and also the guerrillas and we were doing diplomatic work in Europe. And there is resistance in other parts of Kurdistan. I wanted to return quickly, so I didn’t see the need to learn the language. That’s how it was.
[i] When you compare Bochum and your city, are there similarities with your city? There are churches and mosques in the homeland. Arameans, Syrian Orthodox Christians and many others live there. In our homeland there is multiculturalism, religious and linguistic, and it shouldn’t seem too strange to you here.
[r] Right, it’s good that you remind me, the name of my city is Derik and comes from Dêr [church], the name comes from Aramaic and it means “the church”, the church is called Dêr in Kurdish. On the other hand, in Midyat, Syrian Orthodox Christians and calves live in Midyat. In terms of culture and religion, Midyat is multi-ethnic, therefore we have not experienced any difficulties in this regard. On the side of religions and nations, there are even Arameans and Christians in Bochum, there are many faiths and nations in Bochum, especially people from Mardin, they mostly live in Bochum. There are people from all over Mardin here, so I didn’t have any problems here, maybe that’s why the city of Bochum attracts me. That’s why I love Bochum.
[i] What are your favorite places in Bochum?
[r] I have already talked about the beauty and good aspects of Bochum. I didn’t have much contact with the people of Bochum and couldn’t see the beauty of Bochum because I couldn’t learn the German language. I’ve never been out and about in Bochum much, of course there are beautiful corners in Bochum that I of course know. Since I arrived in Bochum, my apartment has been in the university district; the university in Bochum is a famous university. I think it is one of the most famous universities in Germany. And there are many nationalities there, many foreigners and many Kurds live here. YXK [Kurdish Students from Kurdistan] is organized here. I go there more often too. I gave many seminars and celebrated Newroz there, Kurds, Arabs, Persians and many others organize events there, such as seminars, panels and cultural events, among others. There are different peoples who maintain their own culture there. Maybe in terms of that angle or [in terms of] cleanliness. Compared to other European countries, there are few junkies in Bochum. You can’t get along with them. I can say that there are very few criminal people in Bochum, in Bochum and especially in the university district. For example, I haven’t heard of a worse incident in the university district for so long. We also have very convenient transportation options, what interests me most is the university. It is called “Ruhr University”.
[i] How do you spend your free time?
[r] I can say that I have no free time, with free time you can say he didn’t live. That’s why I didn’t want to hear that word. This word is most commonly used in the Turkish language. They say, how’s your free time going? People usually answer that they party or read books. I spend most of my time either writing or reading. I’m very busy, I wanted to write more and I wrote one too. I write once a week for the newspaper, I write in Kurdish for Azadîya Welat [Celebration Land], in Turkish. I may have written two articles. I also watch TV programs that are only in Kurdish; I don’t like going to Turkish ones. I say it is also my personal right. I don’t see this as racism, although some people call it that. Some say that if you like your language and your people, they think their people and your language are better than the other, but that is not the case. No, until now, when they said “Palestine”, we had forgotten Kurdistan, we said Palestine either way, they said Che Guevara, we said Cuba, Lenin, Mao and others. We have never valued our people, why because they fought against oppression and fascism, against murder and torture. Or why did we love Palestine and the Vietnamese? Because they were oppressed. I still appreciate her. This applies to both nations and religions. A Kurdish proverb says, and I appreciate this proverb: The sayings of our parents and ancestors, they say the lip is closer to the teeth. That’s the truth, for example your people are under pressure, then you go and save other peoples. It’s a bit far from the truth, that’s not realistic. Oppressed peoples who are under pressure could be supported, but if you go and stand next to the oppressors, it is right that you should be with your people. Your people are more oppressed and persecuted than others when you say long live Palestine, long live Vietnam and long live Cuba, something like that. Someone can legally ridicule you, so as a Kurd you should love your people first. Needless to say, you are oppressed. That’s the truth. People who cannot defend their people cannot help other peoples. Those who believe this also believe in oppression. Whether you are a Muslim or a Yezidi, you must live your faith freely. Most Yezidis, you can say exactly, between our faith mostly Yezidis and Alevis, maybe there are other faiths too. in the world, we don’t know. I learned a few things here in Europe, for example there are aborigines in Australia, I don’t know, there are native people in America. When you hear about them, read about them or see their films, my soul burns. Our nation comes to mind. When I read their books or watch their films, I remember the oppression by Turkish and Arab states. I remember the barbarism by the Turkish, by the Arab states, Syria and Iraq or even Iran. For this reason I say to the language […] Above all you should first appreciate your language, it’s not too much but necessary. For me it is the right thing.
[i] I want to ask you something, if a person has no homeland, his language is banned and is oppressed by the four states, how could you be called nationalist?
[r] The scientists also say that, it seems to have been said at the time that if someone speaks of a nation, then he is a chauvinist, a nationalist. Scientists said that peoples under oppression do not become nationalistic. Nationalists are in a position to dominate others, but our people are oppressed. No matter how you defend your people, you will not become a nationalist. It doesn’t matter how Palestinians defend their own people, they cannot be nationalists, or aborigines. When they talk about their own people, they cannot be nationalists because they themselves are under pressure. A nation may not dominate another nation; their ruling states allow other nations to be oppressed in the name of the people. When we say to Turks and Persians: we don’t mean the Turkish people, but we mean the Turkish government, those in power. I am of the opinion that people are close to one another. Home depends on peoples, languages, cultures and art. We just talked about Bochum, Derik, Kurdistan, Europe and Germany. That’s why, as Kurds also say, if you don’t like your country more than anything […] It is worth mentioning that a lot of Kurds have arrived here now. Most of them come for no reason, we asked, “Why did you come here?” “Most importantly, we had difficulties, that’s why we came here.” We said we wouldn’t stay here, that we would return. German nationalists are against foreigners, they speak out against foreigners, many have come here, not just the Kurds, the Turks too. If one million Kurds came, then five million Turks came. Not everyone came because of state oppression. You are not doing good here and you are racist. Thousands of mosques were opened. You’re making a bad deal here. They are deceitful, that’s why um [… ], homeland, you should also like your own homeland and not just love other peoples and languages. Religion should be respected no matter what religion you have, even if you are a non-believer. Whatever one’s faith, everyone must obey everyone’s faith, no one should interfere with anyone. But home is the same. Our country was occupied by four states, not just one. If you see, we sometimes look too far here, Erdogan says, I’ll go there and kill them all, he says there are no Kurds living in Manbij, they are Arabs. Well, he wanted to protect the Arabs. No, he’s lying. I’ll take them [the Kurds] out and bring Arabs there. Why don’t you go to Palestine? He doesn’t support Palestine, he lies, he has deals with Israel. His biggest deal is with Israel. These countries are committing such a fraud, that’s why we should like our homeland first, if their love is one, ours should be four [times more] be because our country is divided by four rulers. It should be four times more.
[i] You talk about Erdogan, today Erdogan is murdering the Kurds in the Middle East, with the support of European countries he is waging war in Syria. How do you see that?
[r] He deals with people, he lies, he is a friend of the dollar, the euro and the money. He is a friend of barbarism. He sees himself as an Ottoman and powerful ruler. He wants to be the new Ottoman. What is a new Ottoman, he will destroy everywhere. I conquer! He also wants to conquer European countries; his ancestors were at the gates of Vienna. When he opened his palace, he symbolically represented all the Ottoman sultans and states. Greece, Bulgaria to Italy; Austria and Germany. Wherever the Ottomans were, he wanted to reconquer everything, including Arabia. That’s what he wanted to do, he says he’s fighting ISIS [Islamic State]. He looks into the man’s eyes and lies. He’s cheating. He says he wants the wholeness of Syria, his main goal is to take on the Kurds, that’s where our hostility comes from. He says there should be no Kurds. To protect his rule, he is against the Kurds. He is not a friend of other peoples. He is against the Kurds because the Kurdish movement is strengthened. If they fight in four parts, then his rule will decline. For this reason he sees the Kurds as an enemy. He says I am a friend of Arabs so that he can benefit from Arab countries. He wants to trick Arabs in the name of Islam, but on the other hand he strengthens Turkishness. He and Devlet Bahceli say Turks cannot be both Turkish and Arabic. You lie. He is a fraud, he said three million Turkmen live in Kerkük. In the end, the Turkmens spoke from there, they said, there are around 4,000 or 5,000 of us, where did they come up with the number of three to four million? Your fraud is now obvious. There is also a sectarian problem: the majority of Turkmens are Shiite. He also deceived her. But now everyone there is fighting against everyone. Now neither Sunnis, Shiites nor Turks remain. Everyone rules for their own rule and only wants money. He made his children, his son-in-law richer, everyone has billions, not just millions. Now I think he won’t live long. Because his friends and his party are against him.
[i] Hopefully.
[r] Yes, hopefully, we return to our country early, we shouldn’t wait for them. We must strengthen our peoples, our institutions, political and economic, all cultural and artistic. Sometimes I said, let them kill, of course, killing is not good. We are against oppression but they should do something so that we can return to our homeland sooner. Anyone who came here for nothing should return home. But I think it’s gotten worse lately. Now not only the Kurds are coming, but also the Arabs who are running away from the war. And some come for economic reasons. Many drowned in the sea. Two or three million live in Turkey. Turkey is doing bad business with them. He said he spent $4 billion on them. And the Europeans promised us six billion. They sent us three billion, but it’s not enough. He is blackmailing the Europeans. He says either you give me the money or I will send all the refugees to Europe. Many ISIS and other terrorist supporters live there. Lots of cruel people who are a thousand times worse than homeless people. The homeless here don’t harm anyone but themselves. They [the terrorists] are harmful to humanity, they behead people. Isis, Elnusra and the others. Now he [Erdogan] has a bad role. I suspect he won’t live long. We’ll be happy when he’s gone, then we can go back home. Then there is friendship between us and the Germans or the Europeans. If it is 50% now, then it will be 90% and even more. It doubles, triples because no one stays here, no one. Now he is fueling the conflict between people. Many were angry, for example we talk about Bochum when we only talk about Bochum, I remember when I came here, in the last two or three years we noticed, even in other countries, that boys and girls do worse things. They cheated and left their country because of ISIS. They came via Turkey and have the same policies as Recep Tayip Erdogan.
[i] There is a misconception here. They say we left the country because of ISIS but here they support ISIS, how does that work?
[r]Your scams are obvious from there. There they are trained by IS, even your brain is washed by Islam. They would have to fight against the nations and, and […] many of them are trained by Recep Tayip Erdogan. They should tell us that we are against this party […]. I am against the Kurdish party. There is now democratic federalism in north-east Syria [Rojava]. They also want to destroy him because he sees them as his enemies. They didn’t even throw a stone at you. And they don’t have a bad word for Turkey, we are neighbors, we have to live together, open all doors. He says: “No, they are throwing bombs at us.” I say: “They didn’t throw a single stone, let alone bombs.” He sees the Kurds as enemies. From his point of view, it is right that fascism reigns there and democracy reigns there. Of course it is a danger to fascism, so he is right. But everyone else is liars.
[i] Yes, that’s true. What was your life situation like after you arrived? Were you in a home or an apartment?
[r] Back then you didn’t have to go to the home. People who had no acquaintances or relatives went there until they received recognition. But because I was here through friends, I was able to go directly to them and back then you quickly got recognition. After recognition you could move into an apartment, which was the case for me. Friends from Kurdistan helped me for about six months, then I got an apartment. I’ve been in the university district ever since.
[i] What difference is there between your life at home and in Bochum?
[r] Of course there are positive and negative sides. I can say that there are more positives than negatives. What are the negatives? We long for home. And on the other hand, no matter how our people experience their own culture, and no matter how well organized they are, we are more likely to be exposed to assimilation. Some bad things happen. Things like this have become more common lately. Many Turkish state agents work here. There are many racists and many Turkish fascists here. They work together. That is also a negative side. Yes, there are also German nationalists in Bochum, I haven’t seen them myself but I’ve heard of them. There are many Turkish nationalists in Bochum, I saw that myself. But from my side it’s negative that I didn’t learn the language. I can say that about myself, about our people. It is gratifying that they show their children their own culture and art, but it is very weak… to organize themselves in clubs and get involved in politics. You will achieve success in the economic and commercial field. The integration exists, but is not successful. Like two peoples – both their own and German culture – they have to live together, defend themselves together, that exists, but it is too weak.
[i] How is it maintained, how is the culture expressed? For example, music, language, clothing, tradition and so on.
[r] The protection of culture and art comes through proper organization. Protection comes primarily through organization; you have to organize yourself. If the organization is weak, the protection is also weak. As I said, Kurds have organizations, for example the YXK students from Kurdistan, the Hunerkom Music Academy, Koma Berxwedan, a Kurdish musicians’ association, Kurd-Akad academics from Kurdistan and so on. There are also music clubs and groups like Koma Berxwedan and the like. Many clubs were founded, there is a club in almost every city. These are protected, nice, but I see weaknesses. And they also have little relationship with the Germans. If the Kurds were strong, they would be culturally, politically and academically strong with the Germans and their institutions. But in my opinion we are weak. We need to work more in this area. Everyone knows that, and I also find that negative. There are those who are very good, they should not only be protected but also built up. I can say that. Everyone can strengthen their institutions, no one will stop you. Of course there are those who hinder us and who help Turkey. There are cities that prevent our political activities. Their role should be viewed critically; they want to hinder our political work. Obstacles are being created for political work, you have to see that. In the area of ​​culture and art there are no problems with whoever wants to deal with it. With regard to integration, if they act together in the area of ​​culture and art and are accepted fairly, I don’t see any problems there. There are obstacles to political work. But not in the area of ​​culture and art. I don’t see any obstacles in the area of ​​culture and art, if so it’s laziness. There is laziness and indifference.
[i] Do you have contacts with your neighborhood? What are they like?
[r] Due to my language barrier, personal contact with them only consists of ‘hello’ and ‘how are you’. But our young people have good contacts, both girls and boys have very good contacts. And as already mentioned, about good and bad sides, The good aspects need to be further strengthened, I find the younger ones weak. We should educate nations about strengthening each other rather than lording it over each other. Some say what Kurds are, there are such things. We came to Germany, learned their language, we will no longer return to Kurdistan. Mainly there is an injustice. What kind of injustice is this? It’s unfair to the people here. As we say, the Turkish state, the Turks have come, the Arabs have come to occupy Kurdistan. If you say it, you’re being unfair to the people here. You say you will come and stay in their countries. Of course they gave you a right, because in their law there is value for people. But not like that, save your country. If you like the other person, you strengthen them. This is how the friendship develops, in my opinion. No matter how democratic they are, now they feel uncomfortable. No matter how well they work together, fascists try to turn people against each other. So the Kurds, the Turks, the Germans and others are trying to fight each other. To get it right: Everyone should be returned to their country and increased protection of their culture and art. Justice and truth arise through equality. It is the transfer of democracy.
[i] Let’s come to your family. Can you tell us about your family?
[r] Our family is like our country, just like our country our family is falling apart. I left my country early, even when I was little I had to go to the big cities to study. After political work and the fascist government, I got married and had a family. I have siblings, but everyone is somewhere different. Everyone went somewhere. Some went to the other parts. They burned our village and got out of Derik. Some went to the metropolises. I have my family for a long time not seen. Now we are together in Germany. It’s a little better, it didn’t seem to be a problem.
[i] How long were you separated?
[r] I think it was, […] how many years […], 15 years.
[i] 15 years.
[r] Yes, 10 to 15 years. With some 15 years, with others less. I had occasional contact by phone. As you know, the technology was initially weak. Their internet was also weak. In recent years, contact with my siblings has been good. Now the relationship is going well, but we are not allowed to visit each other yet.
[i] How did saying goodbye to your family go?
[r] If you think about it, when a man puts it in his mind, you don’t know what will come out. If you don’t have hope and faith, you fall. Human hopes and beautiful dreams continue life. If you don’t have strong hope and dreams for a life, then they fall. Man is like that. But of course I was very sad when I said goodbye. We knew we would be separated for the long term. Our great hope, we said, was that we would return early. That was one reason why I couldn’t learn the language. We said we would go there and stay a little. We know the world and can freely say, write and read our ideas. I will be treated in these countries and then I will come back. There would be more opportunities, otherwise there will be another part of Kurdistan. We had a great hope, but it didn’t come true, for a year or two we had, now 21 years. Of course you were sad after the first goodbye. There was a fear of separation. I wondered if we would see each other again. It was hard until we got here, it was difficult and dangerous.
[i] How old were the children?
[r] When I left the children were small. Now you’re all over 20, over 30. At that time they were six, seven, ten. Not everyone came together. We met ten years later and they didn’t see each other either. Each stayed in one place, one in the south, one in the metropolis and one in Kurdistan. In recent years we have met.
[i] This is a fate for Kurdish families, but it is also a difficult matter. When the child was ten years old, you left him and only saw him again after 15 years. A dialogue is needed until you get used to each other again. You have to expect such hurdles.
[r] Believe me, if you don’t think too deeply, it was very difficult. I am more than myself. I have seen the world, I have traveled to metropolises, read, written and conducted dialogues. I have a trait like that, wherever I go I create a dialogue with people. I thought more about the children, okay, we had friends and relatives, but I knew the state was cruel. When I left, they asked for me and raided the village. When they were arrested several times, they also had to flee. All my family, brothers and cousins, two or three of my cousins ​​were killed by torture. My little brother was arrested, he died due to torture. The whole family is constantly checked, so everyone went somewhere else. I experienced such difficulties.
[i] Your parents are still alive?
[r] No, I haven’t met either of them, that’s painful for me too. They say if I had seen her […]. It was a long time ago, I don’t know how many years later. I’ve already forgotten when they died. When I was in the metropolis, my father died. My mother died when I was here, 15, 16 years ago, we didn’t see each other. When I was home, we saw each other a few times in the dark of night and it was very difficult. But her death was very difficult for me.
[i] There is a large Kurdish community in Bochum. What is your contact with this community?
[r] Contact with the Kurdish community is strong. Not only with the Kurds, but also with other peoples from Kurdistan. My contacts with religious and national minorities are also very good. For the reasons we’ve talked about, the community is connected to each other, but still too weak, it should be more active. I don’t have a personal problem, I have a good exchange with them.
[i] To what extent does the community in your home country play a role in integration? Let’s say, how well integrated are they?
[r] There is integration, but something is wrong. There should be integration, but this word is misdefined. In my opinion it is not so. For me, everyone should be able to express themselves equally with their own culture and identity and strengthen each other. But there is a lot in this direction, both among us Kurds and among these states, I say the states, not the peoples. There are many negative aspects in the political orientation of states that need to be eliminated. We must strengthen our institutions and on the Have a dialogue with them based on these principles. Then we can talk about proper integration.
[i] How would you describe the community of your home country in Bochum?
[r] No, of course there are successful activities, but if we don’t strengthen these activities […]. It happens that successful activities are not successful because our enemies worked against us. The state wants to exploit them and make them do harmful things. Especially those who came last, both Kurds and Arabs, bad people. They sent most of them to spy for them. Some are not here because they are fleeing as Kurds had to, or because they were under religious pressure, Europe is very beautiful, there is a lot of money, there is freedom. They can do whatever they want. Most of them came with dreams or came because of what they were told. Most who come here and see this place are shocked. They harm the people here because their psychology [psyche] is disturbed. They harm both their relatives here, the Kurds, and the people here. For this reason there is currently a crisis, both in Bochum and in Europe. Recep Tayip Erdogan knows this, which is why he is threatening Europe. He says if you don’t give me money, I will put them in trouble. In this way he already threatens the ethnic groups and now he threatens the states. According to these principles, states negotiate among themselves, outside of the peoples.
[i] What future prospects do refugees have in Bochum? There are many refugees in Bochum.
[r] They say maybe everything will be fine. Those who are dreamers have already been confronted with the truth. I have heard and even experienced things like this many times. More than half want to return but don’t know how. They sold their property and gave it to the brokers to come here. Now they have no money left to return. You are facing great difficulties. They expect help and hope from the institutions here. Our social, political, humanitarian and advocacy institutions should educate these people a little. Integration should take place on this basis. When a person is left empty, he goes to the bad place. We have to protect them. It would be better if they were given basic training.
[i] What does identity mean to you?
[r] Identity is the way a person expresses themselves in nature. This should be accepted as such. If it is not accepted, man resembles a tree that has been uprooted. We can balance it out like this. The fruits and vegetables that come out now taste different. All the vegetables and fruits are not organic, are not organic fruits. It makes people sick; diseases multiply day by day. It’s similar with identity. They say I’m Turkish or German. No, you are Kurdish. But you say I’m Turkish or German. You are betraying yourself. Anyone who betrays themselves is betraying the Turks and also the Germans. There are a lot of this kind of people among the Kurds. In Kurdish it says – it has a very derogatory meaning – they have forgotten or lost their origins. Anything too much is harmful. For example, water is vital for humans, but if they drink too much water, they poison themselves. I know this from my time working in the hospital. If you ask someone who has no idea, they will say no, how can water become poison? It’s the same with identity. We just said that if you advance your identity and your culture, you will become a nationalist. Nationalism leads you to fascism, fascism also oppresses other peoples. That’s why you should leave everything to your own roots. Whatever its naturalness should be, a democratic and just life must be in this form.
[i] Where is your home? What defines home?
[r] Home is the place where the human eye opens and is born. But if you think about the world, the world is the home of all people. Language and religion are common to everyone, but we are not in that phase, maybe a time will come. How the first humans lived naturally without hurting each other. Since then and to this day, oppressed and oppressors have come upon us. I think it will end like this, the world will be the land of all people. Faith becomes one, language becomes one. But it’s not the time yet. Just whoever it is, he should be accepted. Everyone has to work at their place so that we can achieve our goal. If you get into a place where the car isn’t allowed to go, you mess it up, that’s the kind of thing. If they divide the peoples and countries and say that this land belongs to me, they will destroy everything. If they destroy someone else’s country, they will destroy it within themselves. Let us return to what is essential to us. We must accept everyone as they are naturally, as they are, this is real life.
[i] To what extent does xenophobia play a role in your life in Bochum?
[r] No, I didn’t meet the German nationalists myself. Oh, maybe if we go somewhere and want something. A person can appear in the social welfare office and in another institution. They are everywhere, they also exist among the Kurds. I came across something like this. For example, I was thrown out of the room because of my poor language skills. They said, “Go get an interpreter.” There are Arab doctors with whom I spoke Arabic and with whom I encountered Arab racism. No, as I said, the Kurds are already under pressure, so they can hardly develop racism. There is none among the Kurds. Kurds are very strange. The Kurds consider themselves Arabs, Turks and Germans, in this respect it is very bad. Anyone who sees themselves like that is bad. Personally, I didn’t see the racism of the Kurds, but I heard it. This also happens in Bochum.
[i] How do you perceive the current mood in Germany in view of the AfD?
[r] Such confusion gives rise to states like Turkey. The way the hegemonic powers commercialize everything and keep it economically under their control has driven the world to its worst. In the past there was the Ottoman Empire and other world empires. They oppressed people and peoples, now it’s the same. Some states put their hands everywhere. Now people are protesting against it. Sometimes I give the Germans the right to question why we came to their country. We thought we will liberate our country quickly so that we can return to our country immediately. Their states help the states that fight against us, they should fight with us against their states. They should help us and not let us be shot. Turkey is massacring us with weapons they receive from the German state. We have to explain this to your people and their nationalists. Convince your country not to send your weapons to Turkey. This is the case worldwide. For this reason, these parties are not only in Germany, but also in other countries have become stronger. This will require intensive and good work. I believe there is a democratic fight against them, but it is weak. DAESH and IS did not form spontaneously. They founded ISS in the name of Islam. He will face someone tomorrow in the name of Christianity. If racists strengthen under the Turkish flag, Arab racists will strengthen in return, British racism, German racism, and so on. It seems we are in a phase. There was an American, an American Emanu, what was his name again? He said that the culture wars will begin, he is a philosopher, died [Emmanuel von Ketteler – Kulturkampf?]. The new century will be the year of the culture wars, um […] I forgot his name. I forgot his name and it is his work. Now China and Japan are mentioned, they say, their religions, cultures, Russia and America. Now the world is approaching World War III, which is a catastrophe for everyone. Therefore, everyone should be more sensitive and maintain a human identity. Everyone should respect others. As you love your people, you should also love others. Love develops like that. Or: You are Kurd, then you are bad; I am Turkish, then I am not good; the others […]. He who is good is good; whoever is evil is evil. Everyone should be who they are. That’s the answer to your question, I say. Everyone should stick to their truth, understand it and accept it. Everyone should do this work.
[i] What are you proud of in your life?
[r] This revolutionary work for humanity. It wouldn’t be right if I didn’t work for both my people and humanity. The work should be based on this and carried out on the basis of philosophy. You must view all of humanity in a democratic framework in your brain. What makes people equal is the development of human love, love of nature and love of the earth. Because chemical weapons destroy the world, the air, the water, nature and the soil and have left no chance for life. For this reason, people should prepare their minds for a natural form of society. One should have a natural structure that defends a natural society, all religions, identities and nature. Such a life should be based on oneself, the first one should start by himself, and then introduce himself in his surroundings. Complete humanity in your brain and it must go on this basis, what essentially keeps that person alive: The belief, thought, the dream of the beautiful life. Maybe I didn’t have the opportunity to live, although I suffered a lot, but this faith keeps people alive. I think that if people take care of it, they will eventually realize this beautiful dream. Some philosophers were asked about this. Why are you defending it, you can’t get it, what keeps you alive? He says now I understand what you are dreaming about. These are good dreams that can come true. You have to believe, not just dream. When you work toward those dreams, your life makes sense.
[i] Thank you very much for answering all of my questions openly and I wish you much success in your work.
[r] I would also like to thank you and wish you much success in your work. I hope to live in a free country both there and here.
[i] Hopefully, in the future, thank you very much.