SU_B_33

[i] Welcome, Mr. [name], today, on March 31, 2019, here, at the Human Rights Association of the Middle East, Wattenscheider Hellweg in Bochum. I am [name], the head of the association, the speaker with you today, in the Specially Unknown, Oral History program in Europe. Please, Mr. [name], introduce yourself and tell us what brought you here.
[r] I am [name], from a very nice village called Hambra in Homs. I came with this beautiful rosary, it has accompanied me all the way. And I have very nice memories with it, from Syria, it has always been with me, from a friend, a dear friend to me. I brought it with me and my wife also put this cross on me. She said to me, why do you want to keep it? Wear it, don’t take it off. She wanted to take me off when she got here, because I don’t do a lot of things. But I kept it, really. Okay.
[i] How long have you been here?
[r] It’s been three years now.
[i] Three years. And you came alone? You’re saying my wife put that necklace on you?
[r] Yes, I came alone. Yes, because She brought a lot of things with her on the way, because they scared us a lot on the way. Drown, kidnapping, and so on. So I said, I will sacrifice myself, why even sacrifice my children? If anything happens to me, I will be alone. Why would anything happen to me? So I came alone. So she said, keep the cross in your neck until it reaches you. If you want to take it off, take it off. Because in Syria, I didn’t wear anything. I don’t like things that are too much. In my life, I didn’t like it.
[i] As I understand from you, you were able to also succeed in the joining of your family?
[r] Yes. They’ve been here since about a year and a half. Two years, they came. They’ve been here almost for about a year and a half.
[i] What children do you have? I hope they stay.
[r] I have three kids. The oldest one is 17 years old. And the second is 12. And the third is 8 years old.
[i] We want to know more about you, your personality, your country. You are a Syrian citizen living in a very beautiful village. Tell me about your childhood, your older family, and then we will get to your younger family.
[r] My childhood was like any other child. I went to school. We were seven siblings. My father was a worker. We didn’t live rich or poor lives. We were average for others. We enjoyed the gifts, the money, and the holidays. We waited for the holidays to end, as they say. I studied for baccalaureate in Syria. I studied engineering for three years. After the ninth grade, I studied engineering, mechanics, and cars. I didn’t take the baccalaureate. I was a literary mule. I loved poetry and writing. I loved painting. I used to play the oud. I loved these things. I studied for a baccalaureate in literature, and I achieved my ambitions. I studied for a university degree, and so on. But the financial situation didn’t help. So I shortened myself. We were seven siblings. Someone in the house had to sacrifice. My older brother was a university student. We said, it is forbidden for the older brother to leave the university and work. After I entered the university, I finished military service and started working. I helped my family and helped my brothers complete their studies. My brothers were all poor. This is what happened. I left the military. After the military service, I started working. I worked and helped my brothers. I thank God that all my brothers graduated from universities and universities. This is not the case. I swear to God, they succeeded in their lives. They got married. At least, after they got married. After that, I got married. After that, my family is the most important thing for me now.
[i] Did you leave Syria except for this one trip that you left to Germany?
[r] To Lebanon for work, if you consider that a journey. Only to Lebanon, I worked there. I worked in Lebanon for about 13 years.
[i] You lived there for a long time.
[r] Yes. I had many friends and good relations there. I was happy in Lebanon. I did not feel that I was a foreigner. I did not feel that I was a foreigner in Lebanon. The same people, the same… If you tell me that I feel a foreigner here in Germany, yes. I do not know how to speak. I did not learn how to speak. The traditions are completely different from ours. In Lebanon, of course, people are like us. Our traditions, especially, we are close to Lebanon. On the border. Even nature and the mountains are the same nature of Lebanon. I did not feel that I was a foreigner in our village. People are also kind and forgiving like us. We are friends. We are still friends. We are still in touch and talking to each other. We contact each other on WhatsApp and Messenger.
[i] Tell me a little about your family. What do you remember about your childhood and your life at home?
[r] I was very busy in my childhood.
[i] Tell me about your mother, your father, your parents.
[r] My mother and father. My father worked, as I told you. He has a job. We opened up some shops in my father’s shop. Our mother loves nature very much. And the reason why is that my mother loves it very much. I want to go to the nature everyday, so I come here and I keep asking them what happened to the seed they planted, to the olives they planted. I always say to my family, when you go to your mother for olives, I tell you, I picked the olives, I planted a new one in the shop, I told you about it, and I planted it for you. I am still dreaming to eat from the new one, and from what I have. I don’t know if it will happen, but I will come back.
[i] God willing.
[r] God willing.
[i] You are talking about your strong connection with nature. You have artistic means. You told me that you love agriculture, vegetables, and the village.
[r] A lot.
[i] Then, your country Syria is well-known for its beautiful nature. In your village, from any sect, from any… Your wife is a Christian, you are from any…
[r] We are Roman Orthodox.
[i] Roman Orthodox.
[r] Yes, Roman Orthodox. The whole village is Roman Orthodox.
[i] In Homs?
[r] No, In Wadi el Nasara.
[i] It is Waad Al-Nasara.
[r] We say Wadi el Nasara because almost everyone is Christian. Wadi el Nasar is not registered in the city, Wadi el Nadara. So as not to become a sectarian division. But the city is not a place of religious conflict. A dispute has occurred. It is registered as Wadi el Nadara, because it always stays green. Our mountains are full of cinders and all the vegetables we have left, so they called it Wadi al-Nadara. But when we say Wadi al-Nasara, we mean that we were raised on this word.
[i] Yes, and you and your family and relatives and friends are communicating daily.
[r] Yes, daily.
[i] On the phone?
[r] On the phone, yes.
[i] Anything important?
[r] Of course, you can’t cut me off. You have to talk to me daily. If I didn’t talk to you, my mother would have been upset. I would have told them to see the children. I miss the children. And she started crying daily. Whenever I cut off the phone, she would tell me not to answer. Because she cried every time I talked to her. And [name] did this. And now [name] came to us. And I saw him and said, I came to your house to eat. And he remembers that when [name] came to me, he told me to put him where I want to eat. And I love your food. And I love my wife. So here, the heart burns. They are still above me. We left them. Now you come back and make them feel. And I tell them not to answer your uncle. I send him a message that we are not at home. I send him a message that we are not at home. Most of the time, I don’t answer them. I have a brother in Sweden, here we talk. We are with him for an hour. But with my family, every 3 or 4 days, we talk to him. I miss him, I hear news.
[i] What is your opinion? How is life in the village now?
[r] In the village, nothing happened. I lied to you. I told you there was a war. In the village, we didn’t feel. The valley didn’t happen. There were some minor problems. They took it to Qalat Hasn. A few martyrs left us, from the village. They cut the road from Qalat Hasn. But the army entered and eased the situation. And there were armed gangs in Qalat Hasn. But in the village, nothing happened. We were not exposed to anything. We lived in Homs for a while. I had a shop in Homs and I rented a house. Here, the place was destroyed and the house was gone. We fled and settled in the village. I came here to visit the people. We saw that the situation was bad. We looked at the future of the children. Damascus, Damascus, Homs, Aleppo were destroyed. We wanted the children to continue their studies. The children were smart. We wanted them to go to school. We wanted them to travel. I traveled. Thank God, I was able to do what I wanted. I came here. God willing, they will see a good life. We don’t want a good life for everyone.
[i] What do you remember from your village? The residential streets, the streets, the memories of your childhood. I really want to talk about you. I want to talk about you and your family.
[r] Oh, my memories. What memories? I want to talk about my friends, about the playground. Every day, after school, we would eat and go to the playground. When we were young. We would play in the playground. We had a playground to play on. We didn’t have playgrounds like here in Germany. In every street, we would find a playground. No, there was an empty land. There was nothing. They made a playground for us. During school days, they would study on the playground. Yes, we would go and put stones here and there. We would play in the playground. Yes. Until we grew up. In 9th grade and after 9th grade, we had a hunting hobby. We would go hunting.
[i] With a Nekayfeh or proper hunting?
[r] Bārūd al‑daq [gunpowder] and barud ‘iil tasa’.
[i] At what age were you?
[r] Yes, from 9th to 10th grade. We would go hunting when we were 14 or 15 years old. We had beautiful mountains, beautiful meadows, beautiful springs. Wherever I went, there was a fountain of water.
[i] That eases the soul.
[r] Oh. When I go there, I forget. Even when I grow up, I don’t want to go to the ground every day. Or go to the forest. I just sit there on the rock and make a cup of tea. I sit there on the rock and look at the world. I forget everything. Even my wife, if she doesn’t call me in the end, after we got the mobile phones, I wish I didn’t have mobile phones. If she calls me, she doesn’t come home. I forget myself. I go down in the well, in the olive grove, I fix my hair on the ground, I fix a lot of clothes. Yes. Life was very, very beautiful. Until now, I say I want to go back in the morning. Many times, I say I want to go back in the morning. I want to go to the ground. My father says, I’ve been waiting for you, Shaqra. The ground is called Shaqra, we call it. I tell him, come on, I’m coming.
[i] Tell us again. At what age were you? You served the army.
[r] Yes.
[i] You said you served the army. Did you get married before the army or not?
[r] Not yet.
[i] How long have you served the army in Syria?
[r] We served the army for two and a half years. It was two and a half years at the time. On the day of the Gulf war, they kept me for six months. After that, I was sentenced for two months. I served three years and a month and four days, if I remember correctly. I was a long-time soldier, but I was not upset, I was happy. I was learning the profession of a soldier. I worked in the military as a soldier, so everyone loved me. And thank God, I was a beloved star.
[i] You are a very good person.
[r] Yes, thank God. The officers were my soldiers and all my friends. I was a very rich soldier, so I was doing well.
[i] Did you marry during this period?
[r] No, I didn’t.
[i] Or did you love her?
[r] I was a lover, and I loved her. We didn’t spend the night together. We loved each other from the countryside. If we loved each other, we loved each other from far away. She knew that I was a lover. I was in love with her and she loved me. But from a distance. We didn’t admit it, we were ashamed. Now the topic has changed.
[i] We are very conservative.
[r] Yes. If we were going by bicycle, I had a bicycle. If we went to another village, we would go and see females. But in the countryside it was a shame. This was our neighbor’s girl. This was an unofficial. My friend’s sister, my cousin. Or my cousin’s girlfriend. In the countryside, we are not allowed to do anything. We love things in the village, or we show our love to the people. In the village, we see the girls or the boys In the school, we have them, we can visit them or not. But visiting our friends in the village is a shame.
[i] Was there a difference between the girls in the village and the boys?
[r] No, there wasn’t ever a birth lag. The girls and boys do everything, but there are limits. Even the girl in the university has limits. Where she goes and where she comes. We want to know. Even my sister, when she studied in Latakia, we know where she goes and where she comes. From the university to home, from home to home. When she goes to her uncle’s house, I don’t watch her but when she wants to go somewhere, I go with her. When she wants to go to the market to buy things, she and her friend [name] and [name] go with them. They go with them to the market to buy things. When the girl is in the village, when she goes to the city, she wants someone to accompany her. Because she doesn’t know anything about the city. So there will be someone a year before us in the city or someone who follows her. In Sham, there was an employee in Sham. She was a nurse. My uncle, may God have mercy on him. He was still alive when we didn’t have anyone to go to Sham from us or from my uncle’s children. The others, my uncle was here as a companion in their work and things at the university and so on.
[i] So you are the family of [name]. You are the father of your son [name].
[r] Yes, yes.
[i] You don’t have these differences.
[r] No, no.
[i] You have a girl who is not allowed. You have a young man. Do you have more options? Yes, we have a girl who if she was married at an early age, for example, we would not marry her. Even a girl does not put the idea of marriage in her head before she graduates from university or a university, for example. There is no such thing. There is no young man who would ask a girl if she had not graduated from a college at least. It is rare to find a girl in our village who got married at the age of 14 or 15. This is a little, I mean, a small difference. One or two, we count on our fingers. It is rare. One, before my studies, even the girl gets anxious. She says I want to graduate from University. I want to become a specialist. I want to depend on my needs. I want to buy my own goods and money. I don’t want anyone ordering over me origorizing me in the back of state. So, yes, we attend to the studies. You know that no one can tell her if she annotates or Hallia defend her speech. You just cannot do that. You are not able to properly graduate.
[i] Do you have a quiet upbringing, do you have an open culture?
[r] Yes.
[i] You have open cultural media.
[r] Of course, yes, of course.
[i] Let’s go back to the subject. Did you love her and marry the woman you loved? Or did this force you to marry her?
[r] No, I loved her. My wife is from Homs, my wife is from Hasakah. She is 850 km away from me. But I was working in Lebanon. And her sister was my neighbor in the rented house in Beirut. And I had a strong relationship with her sister in Beirut. And her husband’s sister. And her husband’s sister used to introduce me to his parents. We used to go to his parents. His mother considered me like a child. I am like their children, my wife’s aunts. They are also like my relatives. So she told me that I have four children and you are the fifth. So this is your home. You want to wash, you want to eat, you come here and cook. You come and eat cooked food and so on. So our relationship was very strong. So my wife’s aunt also loved me a lot. She said, I want you to marry someone you like. I said, I want to marry someone I like. I want to marry someone I like. She said, but the bride didn’t like your house. By chance, I mean. She was planning to marry me to this creature. And my wife, [name], came to visit her sister-in-law. And I saw her and followed her. And I knew that… Her sister, [name], later… So… Glory be to God.
[i] Fate?
[r] No, I talked to her for the first time. I first talked to her aunt and her sister. She said, no, she doesn’t want to marry until the age of 20. She was 18 years old when I saw her for the first time. She said, now I don’t think I’m ready if she wants to marry until the age of 20. I told her, it’s good that we focus on ourselves. We think about ourselves and prepare ourselves for the age of 20. We connect and talk to her. Now there is no room. I told her, let’s go on a trip. Anyway, she left. Two or three years later, I saw her. But I was sending her two or three messages. During that period, when someone would go there, he would give her a letter by hand. You can’t send her a letter by post. You have to give her a letter by hand. Imagine her brother or father sees it. “Who sends you such letters?” So… I went. I came to her aunt. Or to someone who is going on a trip to Hasakah. I wrote her a letter. I gave her a letter to her. Then I came to Beirut. Once again. Another visit. I met her. And I talked to her directly. And she was ready to accept me. She was in it.
[i] Your relationship had become stronger.
[r] Yes, it was.
[i] And you fell in love with her.
[r] No. It was a strong relationship. There was love between us. I mean… I was talking to her on the phone. When I came to Syria, I talked to her on the phone. Yes, so… And I immediately spoke to her mother. My mother was with her. And I spoke to her. I told her I was not a man. I was a game. I just came in from the door. Yes. And there was a court in the street. Another bride. And problems began to arise. And she loved me to her side. And I wanted to be with her. The court was there. Someone richer than me. They wanted to apply it to him. So it didn’t work out. I immediately cut off the road and started talking to the mother directly. And the mother directly had news that I and [name] loved each other. She didn’t give me an answer, she said, you have to talk to your mother because we are relatives, we have to talk about such matters, you have to go. I told her, that’s it, I will be with you on the 14th of the month, on Eid al Sayyidi, I want to talk to you. And on the 10th of September, on Eid al Sayyidi, I want to talk to you. She said, God willing, as soon as you start talking to your mother, she will agree. I told her, I have a problem with my mother. And that’s what happened. We went and talked to her, but they delayed the meeting. She said, the financial circumstances are like this. They delayed the meeting for 3 years. They ruined my house for 3 years.
[i] You didn’t wait, you didn’t have patience.
[r] Yes, no patience, but there is… So, the strong relationship between us grew and now, the time of my wedding, as they say, is a beautiful time. Believe me, the time of my wedding is beautiful. I go to them, every month, month and a half, to visit them. It’s a long distance, I used to work in Beirut and go to Hasekeh. So, it’s a long distance and…
[i] But it was a beautiful adventure.
[r] Yes, yes, yes, I used to go on Saturday, and one of them came on Saturday. I swear to God, I’ll drive after work.
[i] Can you manage that?
[r] Yes. When I finish work in Beirut at 12 or 12.30 am, I immediately take a bus, not a direct bus to Al-Hasaki because it takes a long time. I go to Homs from the border, from Homs to Aleppo, and from Aleppo to Al-Hasaki. It takes me about 10 hours, 9 hours, 10 hours. But if I want to take a bus from Beirut, it takes about 14 or 15 hours. In short, I arrive at their place at 3 or 4 in the morning. I wake up, sleep, and have a good night’s sleep. It was a beautiful day. Especially now, on Eid al-Isha, for example, I go to their place on Saturday and Sunday. For example, on regular visits, I used to go on Friday to celebrate Eid with my family for the first day, and then go back to their place to celebrate Eid al-Milad with my family. I go to celebrate Eid with my head. Or I go to celebrate Eid with my head, or vice versa.
[i] You make yourself happy.
[r] Yes. But the days were nice, what do you want? But I didn’t collect my expenses. But I collect them every month.
[i] Where do you collect them? I mean, they are piled up, you put them on the streets, and they are empty.
[r] Yes. I work every month. For example, I make 600 dollars, 500 dollars, 600 dollars. I go to them. I give them a gift, as I said. I give them a gift for Khatibi. I give them some gifts for the family, and some sweets, and so on. My expenses are here, I go on Saturdays and Sundays.
[i] It’s not easy being a husband.
[r] My expenses are here, I want to get out of it.
[i] You are not happy.
[r] I want to get out of Khatibi and so on. So they used to come back, I go back by 500 dollars and return by the way. I say, it’s over. I go every month and I don’t leave.
[i] I believe, you don’t regret anything.
[r] I don’t regret.
[i] You have the most beautiful moments of your life.
[r] I don’t regret. Believe me, I have never experienced anything like this in my life. What can I say? On the contrary, until now, it is true that I did not collect any money. But I was happy. I used to go and come to your place at night. I would arrive at your place at 3 o’clock. We would sleep on the roof. I would sleep on the roof. They slept on the roof in the summer. I would sleep on the door. I would sleep on the electric pole. I would jump on the roof. And I would get up here. Firstly, I would wake up my mother. And it is a shame that I would run to my father’s or mother’s or brother’s door. They would kill me. If I was their daughter-in-law. It is a shame. I would either wake up my brother’s door. Or I would knock on my mother in law’s door to tell him.
[i] Do you feel that we are on the right track? No, I can’t. This is something that is not connected for three years. My father was not a father. He would kidnap girls. When I send aid to my friend’s house and they help me transport it, I say that this is not a field for transportation. I tell her that I am her husband’s daughter and she is taking care of me as a father. But I tell her that my father saw me and asked me what should I do? You’re taking care of your dad, your daughter, your uncle’s daughter, why do you have to take care other cousin’s daughter? Even if I had to choose between the two, I would choose between the two. She would give me a hard time. A hard time, a very hard one. And I enjoyed it that way. It kept everything hidden. I wasn’t upset. I don’t want to tell you that I had relations in Beirut. After the interview, I didn’t have any relations or anything. I had friends in Beirut and so on. And I went out. But after the engagement, I cut everything.
[i] You couldn’t hide your spiritual love.
[r] Yes, of course.
[i] You’re talking about a very long and great love story.
[r] Yes.
[i] It’s not a joke.
[r] This is it. If we were to get married the day after tomorrow, don’t give me a hard time. Since the work is long, I won’t give you a hard time on account. It’s forbidden. But we were sweet. She used to come to our house and we would have fun.
[i] And finally, you got married.
[r] Yes, of course.
[i] You got married. You got marriage and have three children. May God protect you.
[r] May God protect you. Yes, my first child died. I had my first child. Problems. The doctor was wrong. I don’t want to say that we were wrong. Because we didn’t know anything. The woman was sick. And the doctor gave her antibiotics. He thought that the child… He’s the one who knows on the computer that the child died at the age of three months. And he gave the woman antibiotics. So the heart is not complete. When the child was born, it was natural. And he was healthy. But when the child grew up, he started to breathe heavily. We took pictures of him. And the heart was not complete. We tried to do a surgery on him. I took him to the best doctors. And it’s not possible.
[i] How many days?
[r] 17 days. My dear [name]. May God have mercy on him. So… Many women were affected here. So we took all the stuff out of the house. The first child is very difficult for the mother and father. Don’t you think? And for the whole family. The first child in the family. Even for the grandfather, the grandmother, and the uncle. My brother cried a lot. And they tortured him with them. Because I was in a period of time… They took me to the hospital. And I came back from the hospital. I found that they took the child to the hospital. To the hospital. I followed them. My dear. 17 days. And we thank God. May God reward us with three others. May God keep them. May God keep the children of the world.
[i] God willing, they will see a beautiful day.
[r] God willing. We brought them to see a beautiful day. Here in Germany.
[i] Your life is so beautiful, [name]. And I can’t stop talking about your childhood. And about your parents. And I can’t stop talking with you. How sensitive you are. And you have… The love of life. But I want to change from you. In this period. You got married. You formed a family. You have children. You created a responsible person. According to our understanding.
[r] Yes.
[i] You created a responsible person.
[r] Yes. I worked since I was a child. I loved working since I was a child. Not that my father forced me. My father didn’t want me to work. But I want to buy a house. For example, I want to buy it because I’m tired. I want to buy a boat. I love to buy it because I’m tired. I want to buy a new jacket, I like to buy it because I’m tired. I work in the summer, why don’t I work in the summer? Where can I work? I don’t care what I do, I spend my money, why don’t I work? So I used to work in restaurants, I used to work with bottles, with paint, etc. I used to work with my father. I spend my money in the summer and I don’t have a problem. I was happy. My father was afraid that if the money doesn’t go in, I won’t finish my studies. He still says that because he worked early, he didn’t complete his studies. He always says that to me. If you didn’t like your money when you were a child, you would have completed your studies. He says no. I wanted to study but when I saw that my siblings couldn’t complete their studies, we told them that someone wants to sacrifice. I was the one who sacrificed the most because I didn’t attend high school yet. I was happy. My brothers, [name] was the son of a high school graduate, and he enrolled in a university. Is it possible for him to graduate from a university? And [name] was still young. And [name], we didn’t have any girls to work with, to leave school and work at this age before they graduate. So I was the most likely to leave school and work. My father was very upset with me because I left school.
[i] Are you still upset with him today?
[r] He still has the fire in his heart until now, don’t even think about it. I’m still upset with him, how did he leave school? We don’t have, especially in our families, my uncles’ children are all doctors. It’s not only engineering and medicine. There are universities, but there is also culture. If I were to tell you that my whole family is well-known, they have to go to school, but every year there is someone with an honor plate at school from Bad Al-Muqtasi. So my family, I say my family, is full of smart people. There is intelligence in the family. Almost all my uncles’ children are doctors, engineers, there is no one who doesn’t have a few degrees.
[i] Why did you decide to stay here in Europe?
[r] God willing, we were expected to stay here, God willing, they have a future in medicine, but the war has started and so on, so we ran away and told them to come here. But they still don’t understand the problem with living in the air. Okay.
[i] [name], we are watching the talk with you, it’s beautiful and it doesn’t devalue from your beautiful adventures and your stories, which are very beautiful. Tell me later, Syria, war. When did the war start and did you feel it?
[r] We felt it when it started in 2012. We didn’t know what was going on. But when we were watching it on TV, as I told you, we didn’t know anything. We saw the situation on TV. When we saw what was happening on TV, we thought it was happening in Syria. We didn’t expect it to happen in Syria. Suddenly, it was like a dream. We didn’t expect it to happen in Syria. The security we had was high. Syria is known for security and stability. We didn’t expect it. No one expected it to happen in Syria. Suddenly, the destruction was complete. It reached our borders.
[i] The war in the village didn’t happen directly. But of course, the economic war…
[r] Of course.
[i] The war spread in this way. There was a lot of destruction.
[r] Of course. I told you about the war. We had an army on the mountain. I told you about Qalat al-Hasan. It was a terrorist group. They occupied Qalat al-Hasan. They started throwing bombs here and there. They cut the road. We lived in a terrible state. The war in the village didn’t happen. But it happened around us. We wanted to leave the house. We wanted to go to a job. We wanted to go to work. He put his heart on his shoulder. As they say. I tell you, if you want to come and be in financial conditions, our situation got more serious.
[i] Did you decide to leave?
[r] Yes, of course. I mean, I wasn’t alone. People started talking about we had to leave, etc. And my wife. She had a big effect on me. I wasn’t ready to travel. But we started thinking about the children. If he wanted to think about his situation, I wouldn’t have come. But the most important thing is that we were alive, there was nothing. But the war was intense, and we know that the war didn’t last for a day or two. We looked at the future of the children. If I want to hurt my son, I have a big thing to do. What is your son? This is your son in the end. I don’t want to hurt him with my fingers, so I don’t lose him. When we see children being taken away from the shelter, every hour we say, no, they start shooting at us. I want to save my children. I fled only because I want to save them. I want them to finish their studies. I told you before that from the first years, we saw that in the Levant there was destruction, in Homs there was destruction. In Latakia, there was destruction. in Tartous, and so on. All the Syrian cities are on fire. Universities, there are no more universities. You need to look for the future. Children need to go to university. If you don’t think about it now, you study until tomorrow. Even living conditions have become expensive. All these things made me want to emigrate. I decided to emigrate. But I decided to emigrate alone. If I get to a safe place, I will take my family and children. That’s what happened.
[i] What was the way you chose? Or was there a way? You are not a migrant. What was allowed for you?
[r] We were allowed to go to Lebanon. There was a boat going from Lebanon to Turkey. All of them said that there was a boat going from Tartous. The boat went from Tartous and left Lebanon. We went to Lebanon through the Tartous office. They gave us the ticket. The ticket was 60,000 Syrian pounds and 200 dollars. I paid 63,000 Syrian pounds. We paid. We arrived in Turkey. We went to Lebanon. We went to Tartous. and inside Turkey. Turkey entered under my regime. They gave us a passport and we entered Turkey. We slept We slept five nights a night in Turkey And after that there was only running away and leaving Turkey. We created communication with the fugitives and saw them. You scare us They were afraid of us, until we found someone, Ibn Humayya came out to meet me and gave me a phone number from Sudan. He told me this is good, go with him. We met him in Istanbul and we took him. I don’t know how we got out of any area, we got out by force, I don’t know. I know that we got in vans from Istanbul and we got out. Then we put in, what is it called, the barracks. So that the barracks can fit 30 or 40 people, more than that, they can’t fit in the barracks. They put 62 or 63 people in the barracks. Those who were sitting on our feet more than the others. We sat on the top of the barrack, and the children and women sat in the middle of the barracks, and our bags were thrown by them in the sea. I had a small bag with me, with my official papers and so on. I hung it in my back, and I carried it all the way. I ran from underneath, I couldn’t feel it. Women came to run, they held me, and they pulled me on my legs all the time. And I said to them, I told them my dear, if we get in the sea, I can’t save you. So you don’t want me to save you? And someone was pregnant and took us to the center of the village, we were running away and we had a husband who was far from us. I rode in my car, we massaged her fingers and we threw water on her face from the sea. The moment she woke up and we fed her. We reached Greece, on an island in Greece, then we took the boat in Greece, we slept one night on the island. We took the boat from there and we stopped and went back out again. Then we went to another port from Greece, and we started our journey.
[i] Did you pay any money?
[r] Of course, for the journey.
[i] For the entire journey?
[r] Yes.
[i] Or did you get it for free?
[r] No, how could I get money for free? I took $1,200 from Belbalem. Yes. Basically, when we arrived in Greece, they would take us there by plane. They would take us there by plane. We waited for them in the hotel in Greece. They wouldn’t come to us. We would talk to them on the phone. We saw that it was a long journey. We were asked if we wanted to travel by plane. They would take us there by plane. They needed $3,500. I didn’t have any of that. We were all indebted to them. I had to. I saw people leaving through the desert. I said, come with us. You can take buses to Croatia and so on. From here to Hungary. You can go to Germany. You don’t want to go to Germany? I said, yes, I want to go to Germany. They said, come with us. We’re going to Germany. How much did it cost? As soon as the bus arrived, we took the buses. I took $50 from the car. I remember we spent it. We were three young people. We came together. Then the difficulties began. We went by train. By symbolical prices. Shops were for 10 euros. Shops were for 50 euros. That’s how it was. Until we arrived in Hungary. In Hungary, they took us by train. Direct to Germany. To Austria. We came by train from Hungary to Austria. We didn’t pay any money.
[i] Were you a group?
[r] Yes, we were. We met a lot of people on the road. People from Hama, Idlib, Homs, the Levant. People of different colors. What can I say? There were 2,000 or 3,000 people. We walked on the road to Hungary. They welcomed us. It was a nice welcome on the road. There were people on the road. They welcomed us. They gave us food. They gave us drink. They gave us biscuits. They gave us clothes to wear. Our clothes were a mess on us. As you said, they pushed our pockets in the sea. There were shops giving us shirts. They gave us underwear. Yes, on the whole road. They helped us on the road. It was all red cross. They put red cross flags on me. Dressings and so on. before we arrived in Hungary. They were afraid that when we arrived in Hungary, they would force us to provide fingerprints. So we agreed with the smugglers that before we arrived in Hungary, they would smuggle us on the road for 700 euros each. And we were calling them, but when I saw all the people going to Hungary, I told them I was not going to pay. Because they started with 350, and now the prices have changed and I need 750 euros. I didn’t have 750 euros. I was calling my brother. The time I arrived in Hungary, I called my brother and told him to transfer me 300 dollars, 700 euros, 200 euros. My brother works in Jordan. He used to transfer me money until I arrived in Hungary.
[i] On the road?
[r] Yes.
[i] You walked on the road?
[r] Yes, we walked long distances. We walked long distances because. .. There were places you could only walk. We walked a lot. Sometimes they full the… The smell of our clothes doesn’t affect us anymore. I mean… We don’t have clothes to change, we stepped. I don’t know how we brought them by train and were given a water bucket. We put two or three buckets in the train and washed our clothes by train and they gave us clothes as I told you, on the way. We threw the rags and the bags, and we took new bags. It was used, but they gave it to us, and we changed it on the way. We threw rags. Our clothes were rags, we said we could bear it, it’s not a problem, but we are grateful to God. We reached Austria. In Austria, there was a nice reception, they opened big hangars for people who wanted to sleep outside. They put pillows, blankets, and so on. Even if it was cold, they gave us more blankets. They made tents for food, tea hangars, and clothes hangars, for those who wanted to change clothes. We took some clothes, we said we might need them on the way. We ate and slept at night in Austria. I had relatives in Austria. I don’t know my wife. I talked to them on the phone, and I slept at their place. I told them I wanted to travel to Germany. They said if you want to stay here, we can give you a ride. I said no, I want to go to Germany. I went to Germany, and I immediately came to Badenhausen. I left right away to Badenhausen, because I have a brother-in-law in Badenhausen. I came to him, and after 3 or 4 days, he handed me over to Bielefeld. That’s how it happened.
[i] Why Bochum?
[r] Not Bochum. I didn’t know Bochum, and I didn’t know anything. But I know my brother-in-law here. I came to him. He handed me over to Bielefeld. Bielefeld took us out. When we handed over our documents to Bielefeld, they took us to a camp in Oerlinghausen. It’s a very nice village. We enjoyed it. The camp was far from the village, but we used to go down to the village and buy groceries from the supermarket there. We stayed there for 15 days, for about 20 days, until they did the interview and the trial with us. After two days, we came to Bochum. We came in a bus. I don’t remember how many people were there, but there were 30 of us. I met some people there. They were [name] and [name], as I said. We met them in that camp in Oerlinghausen. We came to Bochum together. [name] and [name] were with us. They were very nice people. We met them. I’ll tell you about them. They were religious leaders. We were all Christians, Muslims, Kurds, and Druze. But no one came into contact with religion. No one told us anything. Our relationship didn’t have anything to do with what Christianity and Islam wanted to know. We were all Syrians. We worked here and we were all Syrians. I didn’t know, if we all worked here and were Syrians, we wouldn’t have reached here.
[i]
[i] Unfortunately or fortunately, Bochum?
[r] For me, Bochum as a city, no, fortunately. Seriously, my mother prayed for me. They say that if someone dies in an area, his mother left him. We are in Syria. So I consider that my mother left me. From the day I took my residence, I decided to move back to Badenhausen, to my brothers-in-law But after I lived here in Bochum for a while, and I saw it, and we used to go to Essen and Dortmund, I liked Bochum more. It is a civilized city. The people are very kind. They treated us very well. And the kindness and humanity that we saw there, we didn’t touch it. I don’t know, I don’t want to tell you, other than the shops, but most of all, as a people, they are very kind, very kind, and very close to the heart. We dealt with them here. So far, we have made many friendships with many of them. They treated us very nicely. They have very nice relationships. They listen to you. They welcome you. They are generous with us. We, on the other hand, don’t get short. We invite them many times to Syrian food. They like Eastern food. We invite them many times. If there was a space to invite them, it is just a language problem.
[i] We want to talk about the language problem. The German language is difficult.
[r] Now, if I tell you that my son was not difficult, my two children are not difficult. The children learned easily. From the first week, they started speaking in German. From the second week, they started speaking. They worked with me in the camp. They worked with me. Especially [name]. I told him that my children are smart. We want to go to Auslander. We want something from the city. We want something from the job center. So, I took [name] with me from the first month. He started to solve the problems. He understood half of the conversation. Or, if he didn’t understand, he understood it in a different way. For me, his English is strong. If he didn’t speak English, he would have dealt with it. But for me, I don’t want to tell you. We came here with nothing. I left my wife and children here. I came here and I am thinking about them. They ate, drank, slept, woke up. What are they doing? They are sick. My son hit his head. He fell on the bicycle. He hit his head. He also cut himself. He stayed busy. I care about him. When one of them got up, his temperature dropped. Because I was always in touch with him. He is also busy. They tell you that you want to learn a language. I am not a person who came here relaxed. Either leave his family, or destroy everything. Why did you leave everything behind you? Memories, age, home, family, neighbors and friends who were separated. All of them were separated. All of them went home. I was sitting with tears in my eyes. All the furniture, theocule we bought, we did not need to take out from our bellies. Everything was tiring. No one helped. When I set up this home, I sat under my family’s house. Underneath my parents’ house, I have set up a hairdressing salon. It’s gone, I made an apartment, it’s gone.
[i] Great loss.
[r] A lot. ient to the local home. This was his home. Other guys got a job. People went to cars, houses, more. For me, I don’t want to say that my financial situation was above the wind. But I didn’t live on the edge. I lived with my whole family. We didn’t lack anything. No clothes, no drinks, no food. They were eating the best food, drinking the best drink, wearing the best clothes. I didn’t lack anything for my children. The best clothes were worn by my children at Eid. I went to ask all the villages. It’s forbidden for my son to wear a child like him. Not that I see myself as a child, but I want my son to always wear the best clothes. And he always wears the best clothes.
[i]
[i] The head is not free for language.
[r] Of course.
[i] There is anxiety. Some of them live in Syria and you communicate with them every day. You are not relaxed. And then we, as Arab people…
[r] I’m still a little old. I left school. You want to tell me… I’m 35 years old. I didn’t study after the baccalaureate. And what are the struggles in work? There was a slaughter some days before Eid. Before Eid, I was working in Jal e Blat. And going to the land. I was working on three things. When I have work in Jal e Blat, I go to work in Jelay. I had three Jelayat in Blat, in Syria. I go to work, I take tools and put them in my hands. I go to work, I take buildings, I take tools. I work in Jal e Blat. After Eid, I come to work in the slaughterhouse. I close the slaughterhouse. I started at 5 or 6 in the afternoon. At 4 or 5 or 6, I started. I didn’t close until 11 or 12 in the evening. Daily. And I was saving money. I agreed with my wife that the money for work is outside the shop. This is hidden. To buy a house. To improve our situation. To hide money for the children. For the future. For universities. For things. The work of the slaughterhouse is spent at home. And we were satisfied with ourselves. And we lived a good life. And we were happy. So all these things came to me. I mean, they are playing a role in my head. I came here and started learning the language. I left the secret school for several years. I was not stupid in school. I was smart. I told you this story. I was a writer. I was a writer. And I still like to write and so on. But there is no more. Believe me now. I no longer wrote. I don’t know. I mean, time is… I don’t know how it is. When do I go to a job center? When do I go to the Ausländer? When do I see what the kid is not studying? When do I see what this child is doing? This child is studying and suffering. This child’s stomach is hurting. That one needs to go buy things. The children are not alone. But I say I want to study. I say I want to study every day. Okay. What have I come to do in Germany? Yes, I must study. I have to build a job. I want to look for a job. Well, where do I find work? Who wants to find me a job? I go to your husband and ask him to find me a job. We don’t look for people we see in the street, and ask them to find us a job. We don’t get to know people. If someone doesn’t work, we ask them how they don’t work. We start working. Because we weren’t used to sitting without a job. So all these problems, these things, stop you. You learn, you jump to the word. Maybe we don’t practice this word. We go back two days and forget it.
[i] The idea is not good.
[r] Yes. Even my parents, you have to stay. I call them every two or three days. If I don’t see them, I bother them. When I see my children, my mother cries and my father starts crying. No, I talk to them every half an hour. Or every day I talk to them. I see them bothering my father and so on. They miss their children. My children have lived at home for a while. I am the only son who got married. Now my two brothers in the village didn’t get married. And my second brother got married here in Sweden. He got married in Jordan. His wife came to Jordan. They got married in Jordan. Then they moved back to Sweden. And they went to Sweden. You see, now only one son came. And now he didn’t go to Syria. So they don’t hang out with him like they hung out with my children. My children, for example, [name] is 17 years old. I mean, you can say… So what… Yes, but… He was born close to his grandfather, for example. Since he grew up, they’ve been seeing him and so on. Now they don’t see him. If they had seen him once a year, or from Eid to Eid, they would have seen him once. Now they don’t see him at all. Except on this phone. They would have missed him. So this is the one… It’s not that we’re stupid that we didn’t memorize the language. It’s a difficult language, OK, but… I have a little knowledge in French. I have a little knowledge in English. Now in school, we didn’t memorize much in the language. My language was French. We dealt with the English language with our children. [name] was English and we used to teach him. We memorized the words. My sister used to teach me English. Or my wife, and we’d teach [name] when she was in school. So we memorized a little bit in English, a little bit in French. We don’t have German. We learn German in Syria, for example. We’ve learned a new language now. It is not difficult, the words are long, but I do not want to tell you that I am tired, I am like a little tired person, of course, but I can not, I swear you give me 10 pages every day, we went to school, and they give you the whole lesson. Okay, you give me 10 pages of the whole lesson, but now I give you 10 pages in Arabic, I do not understand it. You give me 10 pages in Arabic, tell me to memorize them, and I will do it for you. I will not be able to memorize them. The German language is new to me, to memorize 10 pages, and then the time, I went to the course. After the course, I did not study for two months, they came and asked me to go to the job center, and I said I want to go to the other school.
[i] What is the name of the school?
[r] They said they want to teach me a job, they want to teach me a good job. I told them that I am a carpenter, I have been a carpenter for 35 years, I learned carpenter from the 9th grade, but I confessed that in the end, after the baccalaureate, I was an official carpenter. What would you like to teach me? They said, no, we will not teach you carpenter, we will teach you other interests, there is a laga, there is electricity, there are my relatives, and so on. Okay, at this age, we said okay, and we went. I was going to school for 4 hours, I was going from 12 to 4.30, from 12.15, our school was at 4.15 in the school, 4.15. And they put me in the sleeper from 8 to 11 o’clock. Okay, the whole time was filled, I wanted to wake up at 7 o’clock, to drink a cup of coffee, to go to the sleeper from 8 to 11 o’clock. I went back to the camp to eat a sandwich and go to school. You have to be at school at 12.15. I went to the course and stayed until 4.30. Okay, 4.15, 4.30. If I reach home, if I go back to the camp, I will not reach 5.30 or 6.00. If I have someone to relax from the tiredness of the day, if I have a lunch, I will have lunch. If I even go for a walk. I said, that’s it, I want to study. You tell me why I want to study.
[i] There is a lot of difficulty.
[r] There is a lot of bureaucracy here, there are many papers, there are many transactions, there are many returns. I was not present in our country.
[r] Of course, of course. Whenever I start moving, I have to put a translator, I want 10 euros per hour. If he wants to spend 5 minutes with me, I tell him 10 euros. I took all my papers, in the Auslander or in the Job center, I went with him. He wants 10 euros. And our salary was 340 euros before I went to the camp.
[i] The subject of integration is the main language, but there is also someone who has the mental opening.
[r] Yes, now.
[i] That if you come to the city, you are preparing yourself, you are knowing how to go to a doctor, you are going to his place.
[r] Yes, now there are a few words that I know how to say.
[i] After three years, we can talk about other problems, but only language problems. Because your problem, I mean, you feel that it is big, but it is not very big. Because your countries are very familiar with the language, and they are working a lot.
[r] Yes.
[i] And you are a very professional person.
[r] Yes, a lot.
[i] I mean, even if you did not speak, but the thing you want to do, you do it without any difficulty. What kind of cultural programs do you have here in Bochum? You told us that you are happy with it. You and your school and the children are happy with your life.
[r] Yes.
[i] You did not like to change this area.
[r] No, no, I did not like to do it.
[i] How do you live your daily life? What are your relations? How are your friendships in the environment?
[r] The children in the schools. I finished the second high school, I did another high school. I finished the second high school in the Opel. After I finished high school, I sat there for two or three months. Now I want to do a internship, as you know. During this period, I go to school. My wife is at home now, she wants to go to school. But before, I did not have the plastic identity. She told me to get your plastic identity so that you can go to school. We taught her that in order to go to school early, she wants to learn. She is cooking at home. We have cooking skills, this is something. So she cooks and waits for the children to go to school. And I go shopping for her. The children come to pay attention to them, to feed them, to see what they took and what they did not take. We try to sit next to them, not to understand a little German words. We study with them. During the week, we do not go to a place, especially now in this cold weather. But on Saturdays and Sundays, we go out for a walk. A nice walk. We go for a walk. I go out for a walk every day. I go out daily. On Saturdays and Sundays, I go out every day. I go out for an hour, I feel like I am in a gym. I walk all around the city.
[i] You feel like you are relaxed.
[r] I feel relaxed. I feel like I am at home with the children, studying and other things. I go out, I change my mood. I go back home, and I am relaxed. And so on. I go out every day. On Saturdays and Sundays, we have friends in Essen, we go to their place. Sometimes we go to Badenhausen to visit my wife’s sister, as I told you. And in Essen, we go to my wife’s cousin place. And we have friends here. And there is a cafe here, we used to go to it once, in Lear Mitte. We used to go to it. And we have friends here, we met them in the camp. And now, each one of them has become a friend. We have a house. So, my wife and I have dealt with a number of people here. We go to them for visits. And in the summer, we used to go on trips to the river and so on. And we go out. We have lunch outside, many times.
[i] Are you bored or happy?
[r] No, we are very happy.
[i] Do you love Bochum?
[r] Yes, as the city of Bochum, I love it very much.
[i] Do you feel at home in Bochum?
[r] Yes, I feel relaxed.
[i] Do you believe it?
[r] Yes, a little bit. When I go to Badenhausen now, I know that Badenhausen is a village. And it is beautiful, and there is a river and so on. Maybe because I don’t have a house there. But with science, a normal house is very relaxing for me. As if it were my home. But when I come back here, I feel the air. Now, like when I used to travel to Beirut, or to the Levant, or to the outskirts of the village. When I get to the village, I open the car window. The micro, I open the window. I tell them that this is a different village. Now, when I get to Bochum, I tell them that this is a different Bochum. Are you laughing at me?
[i] No, I mean that you feel relaxed.
[r] Yes, a lot.
[i] Because it is not easy for me either.
[r] There are no problems in Bochum. You go to the city. Sometimes, I go to the house. I don’t come home. I go home at 12 p.m. Yesterday, on Friday, I went home at 12 p.m. I went home once or thrice. I went to walk in the city. The city is beautiful. On Friday, everyone goes out for a walk. I go out. I buy a can of beer. I drink it and walk the same way. It is the first thing that motivates my body. I am 50 years old now. After 50 years, I always have to make a move. I didn’t register in a sports club. Now, I want to register. But I want to know how to register in a sports club. So, I feel that I have to go down quickly. I move in the city. No one is bothering me. I walk alone. I see people who are bothering me. No one has left me. No one has beaten me or bothered me in any way. I hear people who say that they bother me in other cities. As for me, I tell them that we have everything. On the contrary, we are very comfortable in Bochum.
[i] Thank you. [name], what are the cultural customs that you brought with you to your father and some of your traditions in the village and your life? You can never get rid of them even if you live in a European country and in a non-cultural civilization.
[r] Yes, everything. The cooking hasn’t changed for us because here you can find anything you want. Everything that was in Syria is here in Germany. The bulgur, the Mjadra, the lentils, the chickpeas, everything is here. Whatever we want, Syrian food is here in Bochum. So the cooking hasn’t changed for us. It’s as if we were living in Syria from the food side if you want to come. This is Nr. 1. If you want to come on Eid day, for example, we cooked Eid bread as if we were cooking in Syria. Who wants to come? I said to my wife, who wants to come here? She prepared the sweet before Eid. She made the Klisha, the sweet head. I made it before Eid. Two days later, I made the Kouki, another kind of sweets. Two days later, I made these before Eid. Because I wanted to protect my family, my sons and my wife. I made the Maamoul, which is stuffed with walnuts and pistachios. These, too. These, too, after two days. Because Eid is coming. You can’t make them all together. And the quantities, I mean. The quantities should be half of what you made. I said, why don’t you make them? Each dough is three or four kilos of flour. Each dough is three or four kilos of flour. Who made them all? I don’t think they were enough for a month. Yes, also, don’t forget that Eid is coming. We all want to decorate the tree in Syria. Why don’t we have a tree here at home? We don’t want to have a tree. We bought a tree from Actionshaus. The first tree came out small, I didn’t like it. I said, we’ll get a bigger one. We bought a bigger tree and put it there. And we looked around. We dug the ground to find examples for Maria and Bethlehem. We make Bethlehem in Syria. The cave. Then we put it on top of the tree. And we have a piece of paper that we stick to it. It’s like a cave paper. It looks like a cave. We used to decorate it. We used to get the paper and put it on it. I even put the whole thing on the back of the tree. Then I put the tree. Now I put the decoration on it. We didn’t find the examples. We even searched on the internet for examples. We didn’t find them. We put the tree. My wife bought the decoration from the Action, from the cake and so on. From Teddy. She filled the tree. The children were happy. The joy of Eid should always be present at home. You don’t want the children to know that it’s the reason for Eid. We know that there is Eid. But the children need to know that there is Eid. We also put the children down. We bought them clothes. A while ago, we went to Dortmund. We bought clothes. We bought a part of the clothes from Dortmund. We came back. We came back here. We also went to Essen. We went to clothes. My wife said that she always wanted her clothes to be clean. They should be special. We also went to Essen. We went back and made a tour in Bochum. The children were satisfied with the Eid clothes. I have them. [name] bought some for her. I didn’t buy for her. I asked them to buy. There was no way to buy. Because I have a lot of clothes. What can I do with them? I don’t have clothes. I don’t want to wear them. We put them on Eid. We celebrated Eid of Eid. It was a local holiday. But [name] invited me. This is Eid of Eid. On Eid of Eid, I invited [name] from Badenhausen. He, his wife, his daughter and his son. His brothers and children came to me from the Netherlands. My wife’s brother is also here. His brother visited me in the area after Harford. And my cousin’s wife came to us from Holland. We did this because we’re in the summer. The whole family was meeting.
[i] It’s important to have Eid when they gather together. For them to be connected.
[r] We can’t always.. Even in Syria. We were.. The family would meet for Eid. The family can meet at any time, any small or big problem. It becomes a problem with one person, they all want to meet to solve the problem. If a woman goes to the hospital, the whole family goes to the hospital. My sister gave birth to all of us, we all went to the hospital before she came home. She came home, the family, the neighbors, all of them come. But we as a family, for example, my siblings, no matter what problem we are in, no matter which place we are in, no matter how much we are in, we are all present. Even now, we have two or three weddings in Badenhausen. We have two or three weddings, two in Amade and two in Badenhausen. And there are Syrian weddings, and whole parties, Everything is done.
[i] So there are physical relations and all.
[r] Of course, of course. Weddings at our place, you bring the drum, and music and bring a singer, You have to spread the tables and the cloth. They start with this. There is nothing essential about this. The wedding is made on a cloth, paper and pen. They will go to court and get married. We don’t have these. We have, everything has to be organized in centers where weddings are held, and when the bride and groom get married, they go to their world. And then there are parties.
[i] And what do you have, also social events, you participate in two-week programs, you are a very active person, and you volunteered in our association, and you did activities with us, I can’t tell you anything but positive things about…
[r] I am a bit short-sighted.
[i] So you are a person who has a desire. No one wanted you and you said no.
[r] Of course I don’t say no to anyone, but I am not finding myself alone, and the problem is I am not finding Oud to buy. God willing he will return. I saw someone on the internet who asked for 400 euros, and he said where is he keeping a bill of 400 euros.
[i] You love music.
[r] Yes, I love music, I write songs, I was in Syria, I like this. Not that I sell, but I write lyrics. Yes, I write in words. You can say that I was a critic of society. The last song I wrote was a critic of women’s clothes. The clothes of the mokheza and the clothes of the qasir. I wrote a song for her. Now, if I sell it, it will make me sad. But… In the past, when I went to work in Beirut, I was exposed to it a lot. But I didn’t like the mokheza. As if I was the super class of songs and songs, and I only sell mokheza upstairs. So I didn’t sell it. I kept it in my mind. Maybe one of the children will sing it. Or I will sing it. But it’s not the case. Our days are gone, it’s not the case. But until now, we participate. We go to parties, we go on trips, we sing, we have fun with each other. During the summer, every Saturday, we light a fire.
[i] Do you have German friends?
[r] I have German friends. I have… [name] is a very dear and local friend. And in the cafe, as I told you, we met a lot. The Germans are very kind and helpful. They serve us and help us. But I use… After the family came, as I told you, the children. I say I don’t take everyone, but we take them on a trip today. Today we took my aunt’s temple, today we took my aunt’s temple. So it’s not like the first time, we reached the cafe. But we have German friends. We met people in the church. A doctor and a doctorate. They are very kind and nice. Yes, we have them.
[i] What do you like about Bochum? I mean… What don’t you like about Bochum, for example?
[r] If there is something I don’t like, I left Bochum. I can go and look for any city and settle in it. But really, I’m telling you, honestly, Bochum as a city, I really liked Bochum. Very, very beautiful. I mean, wherever I go, everything is available to me. Its trains, its buses, its roads, its quietness. The problems are less in it. I mean, I’ve been in Bochum for about two and a half years now. More than two years I’ve been in Bochum. I didn’t see any problem. I saw a problem in the whole city. Not in the Bahnhof, not in Rathelbahnhof, not in the lower city, not in the city. Wherever you want. I didn’t see any problem in Bochum. A quiet city, a beautiful city. All the festivals have a nice atmosphere. The people are nice. I went to Essen. The Bahnhof scared me. The people around the Bahnhof scared me. Whether it was Syrian or Moroccan, or African, I don’t know. I mean, I feel scared. I feel a psychotic feeling. I don’t know. Dortmund is the same. There are situations that scare you from Dortmund. This is the street you should not enter. Don’t go there. There is no street in Bochum they say don’t go there. I used to go to my parents’ house, but that day I stayed alone. I went home at 4 a.m. There were boys and girls. There was a psychological relief. The most important thing was a psychological relief. No one told me that this area was dangerous and that I should go to it. Dortmund tells you that this is the street you should go to. There is a mafia here. We didn’t hear that there was a mafia in Bochum. We didn’t hear anything. Even my son didn’t have any problems. He was 17 years old and he was coming and going. He didn’t see anything that bothered him. If my son was bothered, I would have left the city. But my children are happy in school. They are happy with the friends they know. They are coming and going and I don’t bother them. My wife is coming alone. I don’t want to talk about it. As Eastern people, we talk about women. My wife didn’t allow me to go. She told me to go to Homs alone or not to go to Homs alone. I want her company. I mean here I am going to a job center. To Ausländeramt, to the Imar. To Zubaida. I don’t have a problem. Just go. Go, she had freedom there, can go wherever she wants. To the cities. If the city is stable and quiet and peaceful and beautiful. We can always go. Even if we are alone in the Emirates. No problem. We can buy stuff alone. If they put us out and we are not together in the market. No problem. I don’t have any problem.
[i] How is the situation in Syria today?
[r] It hasn’t happened yet. There is no security. Not everything is saved. I talk to my parents, they complain about the lack of gas, the lack of fuel, it’s not warm, it’s very cold. They don’t even find firewood like before. They used to find a lot of firewood in the beginning. They don’t even find firewood like before. The world is in a mess. The Syrian lira is gone. The Syrian currency used to be good. The employees and the citizens used to have it. Now everything is in dollars and everything is expensive. There is no money with the people. 7 or 8 years of war, those who had some money, they ran out of it.
[i] Of course.
[r] Yes. The situation is sent to them. I am trying to send some money to my parents. I am trying to collect 50 or 100 euros every month. Who would prefer to collect it? I am trying to transfer it to them in two days. The situation is changing. I am trying to transfer it to Lebanon. From Lebanon, I am transferring it to Syria.
[i] Do you think you will return?
[r] Right now, no. I don’t want to return. I am not satisfied. I think a war is over. You don’t know when the explosion will come. If I want to return, I can’t. In the village, there is nothing left. I want to find a place to work. I want to return to ruined regions where I work. The ruins don’t save me. You don’t know when the explosion happens. Or the fire. What about my children? I left my children here. If they return to Syria, they will be buried here. They put the same lines. Your son is a third year, the next year, ok, you register a third, your son is a fourth, you register a fourth. If I go back to Syria, if my son is a fourth, they put a fifth there. The question. It means destroying my children. And all the sacrifice, all the adventure that I did, and all the tools that I had, and I came to Germany to save my children and let them go to university. If you return to Syria, no, I don’t want to, I’ll destroy their psyche. No, I don’t want to, I got him so that his psyche would be fine.
[i] Infect him with his future?
[r] Of course inferred him with his future. I mean I want him, to study at least after a school. If he doesn’t study then I will be with the kids. We are used to stupid. So I told you, anything, the important thing is to have a degree. I have an uncle here who is studying now in a university in the area, what is it called? Yes, he is completing his studies, although he is not working now on the exams he studied, but no, he wants to complete a university, he wants to complete a political university, and he wants to complete it again. He is studying. All of us love to study. I love to study.
[i] What are you planning for the future?
[r] I am planning for the future, I want to start a job. I don’t know what to do without a job. For me personally, I don’t know what to do without a job. I used to work 24 hours a day, I can work 20 hours a day in Syria. Believe me, I swear to God. I worked 18 to 20 hours a day. I work every day. I work on the land, I work in the forest, I go to the house to work in the woodwork workshop. Many times I close the woodwork workshop at 12 o’clock in the evening, then I go back to the field to work. At night, I go to look for a job, and we drive the motorbikes to work. I used to cut wood and sell wood at night.
[i] The weather conditions in our country were bad, did you know about it, or did you sleep a lot?
[r] I swear I didn’t sleep very much and I was relaxed, I mean I didn’t sleep for 24 hours, 5 hours, 6 hours, I found myself active. I mean I just slept an hour at the afternoon, I was in the wild, I slept an hour in the cave, I slept for an hour, I would wake up at 12.30 and I would wake up like that, active like a bull. I came here and I feel myself broken, either I’m not working, or I don’t know. We woke up at 2.30 a.m. and didn’t want to wake up. I didn’t want to wake up until 10 a.m. I woke up before dawn and wanted to go to the bathroom. I used to go to the bathroom every day. I don’t feel like going to the bathroom from pain to death. I put on some oil and water. My body feels like it’s all on fire. But before, I didn’t feel like it. Maybe I forgot about pain. The sun, the weather, the water. I don’t know. Everything plays a role. The air, the water, the sun. Now my legs are hurting. My legs are hurting. My wife told me that I have a cold. I can’t go to the doctor. The doctor said there’s a cold. But the problem is not the time.
[i] The fear, the anxiety, the psychological state.
[r] They play a role.
[i] The body’s disease keeps working. Because the person can’t achieve the goal he wants.
[r] Yes, that’s right.
[i] He thinks about what he wants to do.
[r] If I opened a barbershop here, If someone pays me for this job, If I go back here, If a German comes to me, How can I talk to him? Eins, zwei, drei. Maybe I didn’t understand him. Maybe I didn’t like the barbershop. It’s scary. But in Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, If I went to an Arab country, I could open a barbershop immediately. I would go to work. I gave my job and work. And my work… I don’t worldwide. My work is nice. I’m sure I’m doing well, as the witnesses say. There are people who frown about my children. And those who see my children passing away. They are crying. Who cut your hair? But I can’t open a barbershop. And I don’t allow it because I don’t have the money. I don’t have anything to do in Ausbildung. Ausbildung is for three years. Imagine you want to do Ausbildung for three years. If you want to go to Ausbildung, I must have a degree, at least B1, I cannot achieve that. I told him that I couldn’t get the B1, so it’s impossible for me to get the Ausbindung. I don’t understand. I forgot about this. So I want to look for something else. I want to try to get a driver’s license, to work as a driver, on Amazon, on anything, on a car, on something. We don’t think about ourselves. There are guys who think about themselves in these things. We all try to save money. I used to drive before. But I don’t have much money. If I get a driver’s license, it will cost me.
[i] And how much does it cost?
[r] Well, depending on what they tell you, it’s 2000, and not more than 2000 euros. I mean, 2500, 2400. And if I get the test, the examination is difficult. There is a medical examination, a practical examination, I don’t know. That’s what they’re telling me. I don’t know. The cost is exactly the same. Now, I want to work in Hagen. I asked him. He told me it cost me 3500 euros. He and his son spent 7000 euros.
[i] This is a fake amount.
[r] Yes. Between the tests, between the tests on the car, between the registration, and between the first examination, and when they returned to the examination, it cost them, the two of them, around 7000 euros. I, for example, told them 3500 euros. It’s a disaster. I don’t have it. I’m really telling you, I can’t. I mean, I’m trying to take 100 euros or 200 euros every month. Sometimes it’s 300 euros. Every year, every month, the price goes up. Once, we take 200 euros aside. 300 euros. We say, it’s happening to us 300 euros. If another month comes, the price goes up. It’s a surprise to me that some people can also go. I can’t do it for the people. I don’t know how they collect them. I want to ask someone how they collect them. Do they eat bread and water, for example? OK.
[i] The stability in your body is present.
[r] Yes.
[i] You are relaxed, you are in your body, relaxed in your home. So my only wish is for you to work and make money.
[r] Not to make money, but to make a living. Work gives you value in life. I don’t want to live with anyone else.
[i] You’re not used to it.
[r] No, no, no. I told you from the 9th grade that I work and spend on myself. Not because my father didn’t give me a place. I want to buy this shirt and that shirt from a laborer. Buy those pants from a laborer. And live in school. I can go back to work.
[i] Of course.
[r] So now I feel like I’m going to the bank and get my money. This money is not for me. And it’s labor.
[i] No, this is your right. You’re a person who came to the war.
[r] I’m not saying anything.
[i] You came to the war.
[r] Psychologically, I don’t know how, I don’t feel the money, I’m not tired of it.
[i] You’re not used to it.
[r] Yes, I’m not used to it. I didn’t take it from anyone. Believe me, if my brother… I told you, when I came here with the debt, when I arrived in Germany with the debt, it was all from my brother. And from [name], [name] died. I took it from my brother and I gave it to [name]. Now, all the money is for my brother. Many say to my brother, don’t return it to them. I can’t sleep. If Mrs. [name] gave me 100 euros, I hope I don’t see it until I have 100 euros. I’ll give it to her, I swear. Even in Beirut, even in the village, if someone… I borrowed a lira from him, I’d like to see it until it’s empty, I’ll give it to him. I go and work, whatever it is, until I get my money back and return the debt. I left the village, no one told me a franc. I worked for a long time, I kept my rent. But no one told me a franc. No one knocked on my wife’s door and said to her, I have money with your husband.
[i] That’s not acceptable.
[r] No, no, no, it’s not acceptable, I have it all. No. Thank God I was able to support myself, support my family, my children, live a good life. It’s true that the house was small, but when I left, everything was perfect.
[i] How was your relationship with the church?
[r] Here…
[i] Yes, in Bochum. Is there a reason why you went to the church?
[r] We went there twice or three times. Maybe the church is the wrong church to go to. I don’t know. Either we… I went to a church that didn’t have seven people. The problem with the church is that there are only seven people, and you don’t go to pray for people or show yourself in front of people. But… There is no church that feels like ours, that is sacred to the whole world. The church is sitting with us on the table. They invited me twice, but I didn’t go. We went to another church, here in Wattenscheid. Yes, it’s nice. A church that stands, prays, and prays. I don’t understand it. But… I pray alone. But the whole world was with me in the church, and I was praying. So we went and prayed. There is a church in Essen. We went there once. An Arab priest comes and prays for me, Syrian and Arab. Every week, he prays for me once. And in the evenings, he prays for me. So we went. So… If it was empty, I would have gone. Now… I am not very religious. When I was in the village, I was not a follower of the church. If I had work on Sunday, I would go to work. I have no problem. My wife likes to go. She and my children go. My children used to go with their mother-in-law. My mother used to take them to the church. I am not… In my life, I… Religion was not… In my life, I had… I mean… A main thing. I mean… I didn’t relate much to the church. I am related to God. This is an internal faith. An internal faith. But… I want to show this in the church. Look at me. I wear a cross. It is three meters long. Look at me. I went to the church. I have never dealt with it in my life. I deal with people in a sectarian way.
[i] Yes. [name]… What do you expect from Bochum as a city? What can Bochum offer you, refugees?
[r] We are happy, I mean. I don’t want anything from myself. I want my children to complete here. Their studies. To have fun. I am happy. I just… I hope I don’t stay at work. Once I work, I… I expect I will settle down. My wife started studying recently. More than that, I don’t want.
[i] Do you feel you are settled down?
[r] I feel I am settled down. I am very relaxed. I mean… I am very… As I told you, I am very relaxed. My university is in it. If my children want to go to university, and go to university and complete their studies, their university is here in Bochum. They will stay here. They will not… Unless they want something special. I am in the university that is here. They will go to another place. I don’t have a problem for them. Most importantly, my children have succeeded in their lives. I don’t want anything but my children.
[i] Where do you see their future? In Europe or in Syria?
[r] Right now? Here. Right now, here. Because… In the Arab world, you know more than me. It is difficult. There is no stability in Lebanon. There is no stability in Syria. There is no stability in Iraq. There is no stability in Egypt. There is no… I don’t feel that in an Arab country, there is stability. If there is any Arab country, there is a 20% stability, I would go to it now. But there is no stability in Arab countries. They are all divided. Inside and outside. So, no. My children are safe here. I am confident that in the future, they will be successful. May God help all my children. May God help my children. I hope that in the future, they will be successful.
[i] If a decision is made that you have to leave, will it be a big shock to you?
[r] Of course. Of course. I mean… I mean, Mrs. [name], imagine that you are someone whose place is gone. The house is gone. Where do I want to go back to? Where? Go back to my parents’ house? I mean, what do I want now? To my parents’ house or not? Where do I want to go? To whose house? To whom? You’ll have to start from scratch again, and as I kindly told you. The children will be destroyed. If you want to destroy our children, you should send us back. We didn’t come here for our sake. I didn’t come here to go for a walk, I came to save my children, and thank God. They arrived safely in Germany, the most important step I have ever taken in my life was to save them. If their families return, they will return too. If stability returns, and the era is like it is, and the beautiful life is back, then we will return. But as soon as all this happens, and it is not clear, as soon as the roads are cleaned of the traces of the war, as soon as the mentalities are cleaned, the mentalities of the world are destroyed because of the war. My brother doesn’t know his brother in Syria anymore.
[i] As a father?
[r] As a father, people live in poverty. There is no home except for one or two. Those who don’t have children have their own homes, cars, jobs, everything. Then everything, everything. They tell you something you don’t believe. The brother is stealing from his brother. The neighbor is killing his neighbor. Rape, theft, murder. Everything is stolen from all the money. From the lack of conscience. Just because of the lack of conscience, is because of the lack of life. Life is conscience. I always tell them that what is God? There is no God. Leave God aside. What matters is that your conscience works. Only your conscience is correct. Life is everything. There is no Muhammad, no Jesus, no Jesus, no Moses, no whoever you want. If you make the voice of conscience, you will be satisfied with your Lord and yourself. If you satisfy yourself, you satisfy others. If I shift the cup I carry along with me, my brain tells me to pay attention to this. I saw biscuits in there. I didn’t think to put it in my mouth. I saw the alms bowl from the and I can’t remove it. If you tell me you won’t feed me, tell me. But when you bring food. I eat two and three. But, I don’t need food. I don’t put my conscience in it, even if it’s a certain number or a certain position that she saw me in. She’ll say I’m a thief or a thief. No, I don’t do that. My conscience is enough. I’m working here. I don’t take this from a person. That’s it. I didn’t learn this thing. I only take something from him. So my conscience is enough. I do what fills my conscience. And since my conscience is not enough now, during the war, my conscience is not enough. So I want to go back. So that my conscience can go back and people can have a stable life. We can go back. I won’t tell you what history I lived in. I lived in Syria for 49 years. Friends, relatives. I’ll memorize every tree in the garden. Every tree in the road. Every search. I’ll memorize every tree in the road. Even in Homs. There are roads that I’ll memorize. I’ll memorize every bridge. Even in Damascus, if you want. Even in Beirut. There are roads that I’ll memorize. Now I’m going from the Aukar Square to Aukar. I’m going to walk. I’ll cross my eyes. And I’ll take you to the houses I worked in in Beirut. But I don’t want to go back.
[i] It’s hard for people to understand. I’m afraid this story, that I have a beautiful life in a long time. Living with a man and starting a new life in a European country.
[r] Of course.
[i] After three years. There are big sufferings.
[r] Of course.
[i] But we do not want to write a hadith of sufferings.
[r] No. We have a hope.
[i] We talked about your beautiful life. You are a successful, happy person. You have ambitions. You have a very beautiful family. Your wife is in good health. You have three children, may God make them see beautiful days.
[r] Thank God.
[i] I wish you all happiness and achieve all your dreams and the future that your children drew. Because this is the right way. In the end, knowledge is the key to everything.
[r] Of course.
[i] You chose the right country and the right way. I wish you success. And I thank you for this beautiful meeting.
[r] You are welcome.
[i] I thank you for being a volunteer in the association. You are an active person in many things. And I wish you success.
[r] May God keep you. And we wish you all the best. May God give you and your children and all the children of the world. When he brings goodness to all the children of the world, he brings it to us. And we thank God. Thank you.