SU_B_24

[i] Hello [name] Thank you very much for coming to our center in Bosangani e.V. Thank you very much also for agreeing to participate in our project at the Hannover Museum [Zeche Hannover] in Bochum. We’re asking you to introduce yourself so people who follow us can get ideas and who they’re dealing with. To you [name].
[r] As for my identity, my name is [name]. I am Congolese from the Democratic Republic of Congo. I lived in Germany for 28 years ago. I come more precisely from the town of Herten. Where I continue to live until now.
[i] You are Congolese from Kinshasa. How come you end up in Herten? Were you born in Herten or were you born in which country?
[r] Honestly for this question, it’s a long story. As each of you can understand, everyone has their reasons for being here in Germany. The cases are really diverse. When it comes to my case, in June 1990, I came to Germany, me and my family. Initially, it was myself. I experienced a deplorable situation. In my country, we will remember the famous massacre of students in Lubumbashi. Among those of our colleagues who were victims. We also, subsequently, were not spared. Everyone, in this sense, sought to protect themselves from prosecutions that could lead to arrests, killings, and even imprisonment. Because at that time, you know, like in many African countries, the dictatorship was still in full swing. And even up to the present day.
[i] Thank you very much for this explanation. Let’s go back to the town of Herten where you live. We can’t know how you got to this city. Under what circumstances… and how?
[r] My journey has been somewhat complicated. If I have to come back from it, I have a bad memory. But nevertheless, with greater clarity, I searched, as everyone, since I found myself in a situation of persecution. There were negotiations that were made so that I could get out in a way fraudulent, from border immigration from our country, flying here to Germany. From there, I met a gentleman who was able to help me with his car, taking me to the town of Herten, dropping me off in front of the town hall building in Rathaus, Herten. So, in a few words, that’s what I could say.
[i] Thank you very much. What was your first impression when you arrived in this city? How did the authorities support you?
[r] Ah, honestly, what I can say, it wasn’t easy. Everything seems perplexing, uncertain to me. Well, I was very emotional. And then, being a man I was just getting this situation under control, because at that moment, I no longer knew which breast to devote myself to. That’s it in a few words. I have already passed certain corners of the city. This is how, once arriving at the Rathaus, I was taken to the foreign police office. And that’s where it all went. That is to say interviews, routine interviews, I would say, because at the end, I had to be given a paper on which I had to write. The grape of my asylum. And once you have filled it, you can put it back. So it was like that.
[i] Speaking of impressions, can we not retain some positive or negative impressions from your first interview or from your first contact with the authorities of the city of Herten?
[r] Initially, I didn’t… I don’t know what to say because well, it was a situation only with… It was a situation I didn’t expect. But nevertheless, as I tell you that I am a man, faced with a fait accompli, well, I have to do my best to get out of it. I tried to be explicit about everything I experienced during my journey. And that is… I experienced a calamity. So uh… what I can say is this.
[i] Contact side with the authorities. How were you able to express yourself, since we know that you speak in the background in Germany, in gueux in Congo, the French language, but here you arrive in a society where he speaks another… a whole other language. How did you manage to express yourself?
[r] Um… The city authorities have made all their arrangements by sending me or designating me an interpreter, that is to say a person who mastered both the German language and the French language. This is where I was able to get away with it because me personally being new to Germany, the German language, I knew nothing. So it was the interpreter who was able to play this role of being able to translate into German, into German, into French, into French and into German, so vice versa.
[i] I also wanted to talk about contacts with people. How was it with other people, not the authorities, people on the street, were there initial contacts or were you…
[r] It’s difficult. It’s difficult. It’s difficult to have this contact, because well… I can cite an example. I’m taking a random example like this. If, for example, I went into the supermarket and wanted something, I had to express myself a little in English. Because I know a few words in English. You also know in Germany, the English language is the second language after the German language. Well, that’s where I sometimes tried to get out of it.
[i] You are talking about food. You have arrived in a country completely other than your own. Were you still able to find the food of your country or certain traditions of your country?
[r] The food of my country, well, that is to say the food that we commonly eat. For example, fufu. Well, we couldn’t find any. It’s rather left to mold instead. But nevertheless, hey, I was curious to find out from certain people. Well, these people too, by receiving certain Africans who know what I was looking for, of course, these foods, tried to explain to me. So that was pretty much it.
[i] What barriers did you have before arriving in Germany in general, especially in Herten?
[r] In any case, there were many barriers because you have to be frank when you arrive in a country and you don’t know the language that this population expresses. That’s already a problem. That’s already a problem because you don’t know the language, everything they say. You are there in the dark. You don’t really know exactly what they mean. But being curious, I try to get by somewhat in English. When you force yourself to speak completely in French, you are disconnected.
[i] Let’s talk about immigration. Let’s get into immigration. What are the reasons in general, since we see a lot of Comorais here, what are the reasons? are the reasons that push the Comorais to flee their country, since the Congo is a rich country. What pushes them to flee? You still know a few reasons.
[r] In any case, it’s a long story. The asylum process for everyone follows several patterns. Among other reasons to mention, there is the dictatorship, there is a lack of rule of law, there are arbitrary arrests. The real reasons that pushed me to flee this country were the dictatorship. The killings. It could come at any time. You claim your rights. And this same right in which you can be in reasons are not respected. And all this risks arrests. That’s how it is.
[i] You left your country, you want to say it for more than 20 years. But now we also see Congolese, young Congolese who are fleeing their country. Are these the same reasons that push them to leave their country? Or are there other reasons according to your information?
[r] Overall, what I can say, the reason for leaving that country is the lack of the rule of law. Because when you demand your rights and your rights don’t are not respected, are not known, that leads somewhere to revolution. Or it could still be a certain rebellion of the mentality. So, demonstrating peacefully is fine, according to the law. But however, when you are not heard, it can lead to any pattern. This is why, when you don’t have protection, you always have to look for it elsewhere.
[i] Let’s return to your town of Herten. In which neighborhood did you live in Herten? And what does this neighborhood represent to you?
[r] I lived in the town of Herten. It’s a neighborhood… Herten is a peaceful neighborhood, where racism is not there. Besides, you will notice, when you even arrive in Rathaus there is a clearly marked sign, Racismus keine Chance. That is to say, there, when you have, what, this spirit of discrimination, and you express it openly, you risk being prosecuted. Good. The city authorities were kind, so it created always a certain harmony, which we said we found in pleasant conditions. Because everyone was respected at their level.
[i] This surprises me a little, since many many people say that Germany is a racist country. What can you tell us about this confirmation that people still say about these remarks that Germany is a racist country? What can you tell them?
[r] In any case, each person has their point of view. We can say that… Germany is a racist country. Perhaps we seem to be referring to earlier times. But over time, in any case, there is a big step that can hardly be noticed. Well, I would say… In the field, for example, of football, we see teams where there are foreigners, black people as well. As for music groups, we also find black ones. So, from that point of view, I would say that everyone has their own point of view. But, for my part, I didn’t really overtly notice this at all. It could be, but on the sly, at that time.
[i] Thank you very much for this response. You have touched on a point in sport, in football. Let’s also try to… We also want to know if you have an answer about your leisure activities in Herten. How do you spend your time in Herten? Or, when it happened, what did you do to trying to have fun or taking your time in Herten’s life?
[r] In any case, from this side, from this point of view, what I can say… My distribution of a moment of leisure or contact, I… I often loved going into libraries where I would join to my friends who spoke the French language like me or the Lingala language. I partnered with them to pass the time because at the moment, even access to the market We were not allowed to work simply because we were in an asylum situation. It was a long process. Obviously, it wasn’t difficult. Well, twice ago, I would say, on Wednesday or Sunday, I associated with other Africans. We were picked up by a certain Pastor Michel from the Neo-Apostolic who took us to Gelsenkirchen-Resse where we attended divine worship. That’s it in brief.
[i] That’s when you arrived. But over time, how does… over time, I believe your situation has improved until today. What hobbies do you have today?
[r] Over time, I got used to, for example, taking the bus alone, to go to nearby towns such as Gladbeck or Dorsten, Marl, Recklinghausen. Well, that didn’t really pose a problem for me because there, I took a lot of time which sometimes allowed me not to find myself in a state of boredom. I made sure to take the bus and go to neighboring towns and later still going to cities like Essen. But I have to admit that everything has almost changed since on a map we were shown the city we were in prohibition of not being able to exceed it at the risk of cutting fines and these fines could also lead to legal proceedings.
[i] Thank you very much for these details. Let’s continue our interview. Do you have contact with the German community?
[r] Currently, yes. Currently, yes, because we must be frank to say that most of my course teachers French language are Germans or were Germans. Which meant that I adapted easily with them. Or even by going to Sunday and On Wednesday, we gathered with certain Germans in the cafeterias. Or we had breakfast or we ate. We had already become acquainted a lot. That’s all.
[i] When you arrived or now? Let’s say, these contacts.
[r] Well, these contacts, I would say that… After my arrival, you have to wait another ten months. Well, I would even say ten weeks. Because a person like you can’t live alone. There have to be relationships. There must also be contacts. This is what I can say.
[i] What is, say, in your town of Herten, or in the surroundings of Herten, the most favorite places, which do you prefer? Do you have any preferences other than your house, favorite places?
[r] Initially, I really liked nature. Go visit some friends, go to the swimming pool. Go to church downtown. That’s what I can say. In libraries.
[i] Can we know the role that the culture of your country plays in your life? In Herten, do you find the culture of your country? How do you take care of this culture in your country? Can you feel this culture of your country that you left behind?
[r] In any case, on that side, on that side, I was struggling to try to find harmony with the culture of my country. More precisely on the music side. Since there are some friends who had the devices, such as the CD device. We were listening to music. It created atmosphere. It took you away from little worries, from nostalgia. Even, during the birthday party of certain friends, we gathered together, we ate, we danced, we sang music, the rhythm of our country. Which created even more harmony and atmosphere. So, Mr. [name], for your question of what… what do I find… What is the basis of reason that pushed me to be here in Germany? You know, today, like almost everywhere in African countries, you cannot ignore that the governance system is not really… at his height. When I say that this system does not work not as it should be, well, I can cite a concrete example. Politicians, throughout electoral periods, very much need votes, to be elected. I can cite a concrete case. During campaigns, they want the voice of the people. And once they get there, you’ll see that most of the time, it was just demagogy speeches. And often, nothing works. The population is languishing in poverty. There is social injustice. There is dictatorship. Extermination of the population. Secrestation. Unjustified arrests. Good. Which ultimately means we are fleeing this odious regime which is characterized by bad governance. That’s it. Because I believe that everyone is free to express themselves as they see the situation unfolding. So, when there is oppression, and this process of freedom has been taken away from you, we find better than to dissolve from this society and find better elsewhere.
[i] Thank you very much for this response. Let’s see the people, or indeed the inhabitants of Herten. If you make a comparison with the inhabitants of the place where you lived your childhood in Congo, what can you say about this comparison?
[r] According to this margin of deviation.
[i] First, excuse me. Can you say you lived in which city in Congo, in which neighborhood of your childhood? This way, we can get an idea of ​​this comparison.
[r] In Kinshasa, since my childhood, I have lived in several environments. I lived in the commune of Barumbo, I grew up in the area of ​​Kinshasa, N’Jili, and subsequently, I was in Kasavubu, before I could come here, to Germany.
[i] And to make a comparison, what can you say about the inhabitants of Kinshasa, where you lived, in relation to the inhabitants of Herten, or the Herten region in general?
[r] Although most often it is said that comparison is not right, but what I can say, in Kinshasa, perhaps in terms of the atmosphere, Harmony-wise, I’d say it wasn’t bad. Were it not for the mismanagement of our authorities, but, as for compare strictly speaking, with this town where I am, in Herten, I don’t know. Perhaps in terms of education, or in terms of lifestyle, I can say that here in Herten, I am better. Because my rights are respected. My health safety is respected. I would say that most cases of situation is well harmonized compared to Kinshasa.
[i] Thank you very much for this clarification. Here in Herten, before arriving, who were the people who helped you? Who was really important to you? And why? Who were the people who were really important to you?
[r] My family has helped me a lot with overall harmony. This family atmosphere helped me a lot, gave me a lot of moral support. And on the outside, there are friends with whom we harmonize when we meet. We were chatting. We chatted about everything. And you’re welcome. We were getting animated. All this made us let off steam, so much so that we forgot that it was nostalgia. Friends, well, I can mention, there are Dickens, there are Paulins, there are Aldo Moros, many people that I cannot mention here. And I would even say that certain foreign colleagues of the Germans were also part of this atmosphere.
[i] About nostalgia, what can you tell us about this nostalgia? Why nostalgia? What were you missing? Do you miss your country today? Do you regret being at Interne? Do you want to be in your country?
[r] On the nostalgia side, like everyone else, Kinshasa, or the Democratic Republic of Congo, is a country, I would say, like my motherland. Separating myself from my homeland was really very, very, very painful, very difficult. But being a man, being a man rather, being a man living in a society, I must learn to be up to any situation that may arise. So, thank you.
[i] Do you have contact with your friends childhood who remained in Congo, or with your families?
[r] Yes, I am in contact, in constant contact. But I would say that most of my friends that I’ve lived with together, well… many have traveled, many have found asylum in other countries, many also died. So. This is the truth.
[i] What did you do, where did you go to school primary, secondary, in which city, in which district of your country?
[r] I completed my primary studies. Among Catholics, in Saint-Paul-de-Baroumbou, and in Sainte-Thérèse-de-Njili. I did my humanitarian studies at the Saint-Théophile-de-Lemba Institute, at the Njili vocational school, at the Linguala Athenaeum, and at the Athénée Patrice Lumumba in Limette, and also at the Medical Teaching Institute in Kasa Vubu.
[i] Have you received a professional qualification in your country?
[r] The professional qualification as such, I studied pharmaceuticals, from which I graduated with a pharmacy assistant diploma. So, I am from the field of medical and paramedical studies.
[i] Were you able to practice this profession in your country?
[r] Yes, I worked in these fields in my country, as many years ago, eight years. From experiences. I also worked in different laboratories and different pharmacies.
[i] And when you arrived in Herten, were you still able to work in this pharmaceutical field with all the experience you received in your country?
[r] At the time we arrived in Herten, that is to say in the 1990s, everything was almost difficult. I would say everything has been almost locked down. With the government of Chancellor Helmut Kohl, I would say in any case that everything was almost locked down. It was necessary to wait after 12 years, with the arrival of the new chancellor Gérard Schroder, that the taps gradually opened.
[i] What significance did it make when you say everything was locked down?
[r] I would say locked in the sense that, to be recognized as working, you must first benefit from a recognition status. Whereas we didn’t have any. We didn’t have any. That’s what I can say.
[i] Can’t you make a direct difference about this employment situation for immigrants or those seeking income, from the period when you came, and from what is happening now? Is there a remarkable difference? If yes, what is this difference?
[r] Yes, there is a huge difference. The big difference simply lay in a logical way. When you are not recognized, you do not have access to the job market. But as soon as you have the title of recognition, little by little, the door begins to open. And I would even say, moreover, you must also have a certain mastery of the German language. Well, that would give you access to contacts with service colleagues, with different people, that’s what.
[i] And now, do you know the employment situation of asylum seekers? If you have any idea, what are the laws for those who come now?
[r] Well, I don’t know at all, but I know what I can say currently, there is great flexibility. There is great flexibility. I can say… I’ll take a concrete example. There has been a migratory influx, for example of Syrians. The Syrians who came, we simply welcomed them. We gave them… rapid access to integration, although in our time too, this integration was demanded of us. Which was also done among many other of our colleagues. Really, compared to the period when we arrived, there was a huge difference. Well, that’s what I can say. And then, well, easily too, we organize training, as is commonly said, house building that we provide to people.
[i] Let’s talk about the home station. When you arrived, how were you thinking?
[r] Hm… I can say, good God, thank you. My case was not the same as other colleagues. Because I and my family were housed, we were Made us stay in a house where everything was good, electrified. So, I lasted in easy conditions. Compared to other friends who were in homes where we were crowded together. In a house, maybe 5 people, 6 people. For me, that wasn’t the case.
[i] When you talk about your family, can you describe your idea a little?
[r] Well, I am the head of the family, I would say the father of the family. My wife and I had 5 children, 4 boys and a girl. Currently, all these children are no longer with me. Because they are already adults. Everyone is vague in their occupations. So, others work, others study. That’s what I can say.
[i] Thank you very much. Let’s make a comparison of the living situation or the housing situation here and in your country. How can you do it? What differences can you make between the living situation in your home country and here?
[r] Well, generally speaking, you know, Germany is a large country where the basic structures are well established. Well, or maybe things are well distributed in a harmonious way where everyone depends on itself, although sometimes are supported by social assistance, which is not the case for me. So I would say that in Germany there are more advantages than where I came from.
[i] So the structures in your country, How are social structures defined? When a person works, how are they paid? When a person is not working, what is his life like? How does she survive?
[r] In my country, social structures can be mentioned. But that’s just these facade structures. Implementation or to harmonize things, whether it is to the employee’s advantage. In any case, what I can say, in the tenth of cases, I would say that in the society as such, you may find the two-tenths who seem to be up to the task. And on the eighth, the population languishes in impoverishment.
[i] If someone does not work, how does he earn his living? How does he earn his living in your country?
[r] One question, I still want to answer. A person does not work in my country. In any case, she languishes in poverty because first of all, it’s what we call health insurance. It didn’t exist. So, life is really unbearable in this regard. Well, how can the person live? I think maybe he has family from time to time. His family could help him. There are even, in other homes, I would say that Eating daily is a big exercise. Rather large-scale. It’s not easy.
[i] How is the school organized? Education in general in your country? Possibly primary, secondary…
[r] Well, in terms of teaching, we first have two categories of teaching. There is state education in the state is above. And we also have private education. Of these two categories, in state education, each parent who is equipped with these means will ensure that their child goes to school. But compared to private education, whose parents must surpass themselves, therefore must benefit from or who benefit from broad possibilities or broad means to survive at the expense of their children compared to those who attend state schools. Because hey, in the state’s schools, it’s almost random. But in the private school, this proves that you really have enough possibilities to be able to support the studies or the teachings of your children. This is what I can say. I don’t know if I’m really explicit on this point.
[i] I also wanted to talk about your direct neighbors here in Germany. Let’s say, where you live or where you lived, how was contact with the neighbors? Whether German or foreign or foreign neighbors.
[r] Contact, I would say that with my acquaintances, my friends, my foreign friends or Well my German friends, I can describe that the contact was good. Although from time to time, sometimes we we meet along the way, we greet each other, hello, hello. We don’t have much to wonder because that each person is lost in their own business. Since somewhere, it must be said that the German man is somewhat withdrawn into himself. So, that’s what it is.
[i] What about contact with other foreigners? Immigrants?
[r] Other foreigners, well, it always went well enough. Not to exaggerate.
[i] What role did your surroundings play in your life when you arrived here in Herten?
[r] Do you want to talk about the surroundings?
[i] That is to say neighbors or other communities? Whether African or German or foreign?
[r] I would say that the contact or the environment with all his acolytes or all his foreign comrades. I can’t say it was really great. But, I would say the contact was tolerable. It was pleasant. So, not to say excellent or much better. Because each person has their own attitude. There are certain people who are reserved. Other people meet you along the way and that’s it. So I would say it’s You can’t. .. that there is no attendance at home.
[i] What is it like to present your days in Herten? What is it like to spend your days? How do you spend your days? Especially when you arrived… …newly to Germany.
[r] Upon my arrival in Herten, my days… …I always spent them with my family. That is to say in the morning, I accompany the children to school. And the smallest, at noon, I go to collect him. We walk together, all the way home. And then, I check their homework. At the height, I try to help them, when they have difficulties. In their classes. For example, in mathematics. So that’s what.
[i] And today, how do you spend your days? Your times? Since the situation hasn’t changed since you arrived… …until now.
[r] Currently, what I can say I am already retired. But you know, so as not to bore me at all I have a small job that allows me to dispatch newspapers. And it’s there twice a week. This suits me well to be a little moving to be active. Because sitting still This always poses health problems. I am satisfied with this little.
[i] Thank you very much. May I know if When you arrived here in Germany did you have any friends? Was there any difficulty finding friends? Whether German friends or immigrants?
[r] Certainly yes. I have many friends in different cities. That’s to say friends of my original source or even strangers other countries, Germans too.
[i] In your community what is the role made the community of your country in your life here in Germany? Did you first have contact with the community in your country?
[r] Certainly yes.
[i] What is the role?
[r] Certainly, I had the contact with my community. Which also allowed us to create at the time a mutuality which allowed us to meet monthly, once a month. And again we also have a creation of, how I would say, an association. Verein Congolese community association, which allows us that we have, which we aim to help too some partners who are far away of us in the country. For example street children.
[r] Officially recognized also at the level of from Amtgeriette-Rickenhausen and then also from the Finanzamt side. So, this activity is legal. What was pursued by your emotionality that you mentioned before?
[r] The beginning of our mutuality… it’s a mutual aid association, a friend is suffering, you help him. It is in this sense, the baptism or the first communion of a child, of a friend, you assist them, you create the atmosphere, you also resolve certain couple problems in their home. And it’s not okay, you’re there, around a table, you find solutions.
[i] And your association that you have just mentioned here, what are the goals pursued? Are you able to achieve certain goals?
[r] Indeed, yes. We manage to achieve certain goals. That is, when we witness someone who is deprived, who is in need, and the person is satisfied. This is where I would say that the goal pursued or the goal is achieved.
[i] Can you describe the community, how it comes from your country, to this region? How do you find this community? What is this community like? There are enough people, there are enough contacts, there are enough expectations. Ah, well, I would say that, if this point is listened to, I would say that my community, well, we live amicably, despite our quarrels, when a family member or friends are in difficulty, we help them. We regroup. For example, a person, a friend who lost a family member, so far away in the country. We organize ourselves to meet up to help, to console the person in question.
[i] Is your community well organized? Do they have any contacts with the city? Are there also associations in your communities?
[r] So there, I don’t really know, because it’s not that I’m with this community every day, but I think it depends on everyone’s intention, when they perhaps have a problem. I would say that I take a concrete example. You have an administrative letter, a letter written in German and which you cannot interpret well. You will make sure to find a person who is up to the task, who knows the German language better and can explain it to you. To free yourself from this situation in terms of understanding.
[i] I have one more question about working in Germany.
[r] Scrap, right?
[i] On work. First, the German language. How are you going to find this language?
[r] Well, uh… Personally, the German language naked was, nu was my literary section in humanity. Since we had a Latin class which I easily assimilate to the language German on the principle side grammatical rules More precisely in declination. Well, when I say declension, I can mention the nominative the accusative, the ablative, the genitive. Ah, this seems to agree without observation. Which seemed to help me a lot on the side of understanding. Neither was, nor was that good I would say that the German language was somewhat difficult for me. But it is well said that when we always tend to cling to one thing because the repetition is the mother of sciences we’re getting there nothing is possible. Today, good I find the German language passable. Although I although I can’t do it to express myself completely or live up to it.
[i] Where do you support this language?
[r] For the first time of my life it was here in Germany although in Kinshasa we had what we call the Goethe-Institut where some of my friends were also learning German.
[i] Yes, here in Germany in which city under what circumstances?
[r] When we talk about the circumstance I don’t know what to answer. Just what I can say we are in a country SO when you find people in one foot you too must incorporate yourself into a rhythm. Which amounts to saying to integrate into a society you have to adapt to the standards of the requirements of this society. Hence the German for the Germans so foreigners who live in Germany must necessarily learn the German language to adapt to integrate in this society.
[i] Speaking of integration what do you recommend to young people to immigrants.
[r] To newcomers
[i] To newcomers for language learning. What can you advise them?
[r] In my opinion what I can advise my brothers who come freshly here to Germany they must hypso facto adapt to standards of the rhythm of good walking from Germany. That’s to say learn first the German language For don’t erase yourself in this society.
[i] How does do you live with your family? What language do you use at home?
[r] At home easily we express ourselves by the national language which is the language Lingala also in French. Because we are a country of the former Belgian colony while in Belgium the French the French on the Walloon side is commonly used. Except the Flemish language or the Dutch language. And then following the soap operas from television we are also curious to learn certain words certain sentences commonly used in the German language.
[i] During the period you are looking for work in Germany did you have difficulties or facilities?
[r] My response remains somewhat mixed. At the same time difficult and at the same time so simple. Difficult why the German language was not used enough at that time. Although the standards status recognition were not there. Okay, later it also depends on the categories of work. But all the same the Germans remained open and flexible towards us during these long periods of time.
[i] Thank you very much for this response. Let’s take a look at your youth. Can you tell us about your restricted family?
[r] Well, when you talk about restricted family
[i] there you grew up not the family of Germany but the family your dad, your mom your brothers and sisters.
[r] Do you want to talk about whether I lived in harmony or what?
[i] How do you live as a family when you were still young? We live that is to say a collective grouping well ordered well harmonized. A peaceful atmosphere. Of course the difficulties were not lacking when you are in horrors. Dad scolded you mom too also demanded a part of standards good convenience. I would say we lived well.
[i] Let’s remember first in Germany the objective that the Germans are of when we spoke to you to go to the German authorities there are too many formalities to complete what do you think of Germany’s bureaucracy?
[r] Initially I believe that the German man is very bureaucratic. That’s to say not just in the sense of respecting formalities i.e. they are very strict that is to say in place of A if it is marked O so the O will not become A. It’s already wrong in advance so the German bureaucrat is very strict. Things must be carefully respected according to legality and according to legitimacy.
[i] you can make a comparison with the bureaucracy of your country compared to that of this country
[r] Comparatively between bureaucracy from Germany and that of my country. Good, in my house there is a bit of… some time ago somewhat of a deviation I would even say Corruption itself, in Germany, does not pass. This cannot pass, unless by understanding, being at height, to try to make people understand why this or that happened. Excuse me, that’s a mistake. I believe the German bureaucrat is categorical. Either it’s that, or it’s not that.
[i] Based on your experience here, if you are in your country, if you have the opportunity to chat with the authorities of your country, what are you going to advise them by making a comparison of bureaucracy from here and the business brand here compared to your country?
[r] In any case, if this opportunity happened to me to be able to communicate with myself or to transmit something. Uh To my people, or to my Congo authorities, I would teach them loyalty, sincerity, righteousness, the true middle ground of the thing, sincerity, about which I have already spoken. But uh, the truth. That is to say, do not lie, do not deceive, don’t swindle, go straight for the goal. What is true remains true. What is wrong is always characterized in the sense of bad. And not that bad becomes truth. Uh Also take Excessive, that is to say justice.
[i] How do you do it when you want, you have things to arrange in an office here, you do this alone Or do you still need someone to help you? In relation to language, I mean.
[r] It’s normal when I would like, I desire be in compliance with the requirements of the bureaucracy. German, as soon as I have papers, well, I can say by example of papers from Gericht Amt, from the court, or even from the Finanzamt, uh Or Job Centers, or socials. First of all, I myself will make an effort to be able to read the letters. As far as possible, understand the meaning, the reading, the spirit of the letter. As soon as I have difficulties, I will not hesitate to contact the people who are supposed to be more talented than me in German or those who are more familiar with legal texts. So uh… It lasts The letters And going to the lawyer That’s not what It’s not me Exactly what.
[i] Thank you very much. This is your life in Congo again. You are in Congo, you are young. How did you. What distinctions do you have. When you are still small or young.
[r] In any case, well It’s This question also comes back to the favorite pastime perhaps. I really liked reading. I really liked sports. Go to a football party. At a football game. Uh Going to the movies back in the day. Uh Attend a wrestling match. Uh Attend a musical group concert. That’s what I can say. Good. That’s what. See, for example, a cultural event. Uh. To an intellectual manifestation. Political debates. Good. That’s what I really liked.
[i] Are you interested in religion? Is it yes?
[r] Yes, uh, I’m interested in the… I am interested in religion. Being Catholic. Although I am not at all a practicing Christian, but I prayed, I believe in God.
[i] Here in Germany, do you have contacts with religious people?
[r] Religious priests? No way. But I am somewhere in contact with pastors. Revival groups.
[i] Let’s see first again
[r] No but hey, still if you’re talking about priests, New Apostolic priests, Michel.
[i] Now, if you are in Congo, you want to propose something, change in Congo, let’s say in your country. What can you offer? Does it change depending on your life experience? You lived in Congo, you worked there, you came to Germany, you lived in Germany for a long time. You also have experience here. You have also worked, you have seen life here. Now if there have to be changes in Congo, what changes can you propose?
[r] The social level of the class, of the popular mass. Uh Establish justice. Compulsory education. Give every child the opportunity and means to learn for free. Uh From primary school to secondary school. Good. Uh… Facilitate means of transport. The health insurance problem. Build hospitals. The roads. I would say that is the priority.
[i] There is a political change in your country. Today is the 10th.
[r] The 10th.
[i] February 10.
[r] February.
[i] There is a political change in your country. There is a new president. If it happens today that you meet him, at the moment where it is still at the beginning, it doesn’t even have a government yet. What are you going to If it happens that you need to advise him or suggest things to us. What can you offer us, emergency?
[r] Sincerely, at the… Sincerely At the phase in which things happened. I wouldn’t say it’s a change, but it is rather a continuation of the old political class. Because I even believe that it is not a semblance of the opposition which won, but rather a semblance of the opposition which made an agreement, special arrangements with the power in place of the past. But nevertheless, you ask me, if there is anything to be said for this new political class which is in collusion with that of the old class. Well, I would say that the level of social life of the population is changing. That there is an additional labor market, of employment, of the labor market, or access to everyone. And it’s there unconditionally ban corruption. Uh That every child eat morning, noon and evening. Have the opportunity to go to school. Uh To favor Uh transportation. Check out their schedules. Abundance in the market. Okay, culture. Well, I would still say that mineral wealth benefits the state coffers. And also to the population of the country. Agriculture must be the top priority. So that’s what it is.
[i] Thank you, thank you very much. Let’s see here in Germany. We also have the opportunity to give some messages through this video to the German authorities. You lived in Germany as an asylum seeker. After you have changed your status. Is that you have seen how it is that asylum seekers lived long before. When it happened. Until today. What if now there is a message to give to the authorities. Because as you said, when we arrived, we didn’t have many rights. Now there are no more rights. If you have a message to give to the German authorities. What can you tell them?
[r] If there is a message to communicate or transmit to the authorities towards the asylum seekers who are currently coming here to Germany. This is because I can say that when the basis of any asylum seeker’s asylum process is admitted. It should automatically be inserted. A structure to insert it. The person in question. In the German social environment. With the same right. Let it be equal. Although the son of the country. That is to say the Germans can benefit more and more. But I believe that. in the framework of laws everyone must be equal. Also favor. This newcomer. These asylum seekers. In the market. Work. In the process of integration. In balance of society. Let there be no discrimination. What really an asylum seeker, or, a newcomer, also feels be up to the task that the children of the country.
[i] This is advice to the authorities. But if you have the opportunity to chat with German citizens. What can you advise them? In relation to their contact. In relation to their life with Africans or foreigners in general. Depending on the experience you had during your stay in Germany.
[r] What I can advise the German authorities.
[i] To citizens.
[r] To citizens?
[i] Germans.
[r] To German citizens. That’s to say. That German citizens take strangers like their zougos. Like their brothers. Their sisters. Let there be no animosity. Even racial attitudes towards foreigners. Because they too let them know, that they also live in other foreign countries. Like for example in the United States. During the Second World War. There are also a lot of Germans who took refuge. It’s not me. In Australia or even in America. That’s it. Somewhere A German citizen is also a foreigner. SO. Let there be what. A respect for common rights between them mutually. So that there is. What we call harmony in society.
[i] What change you want to see After 5, 6, 10 years in Germany compared to life for foreigners today.
[r] What would I wish for. In Germany. Let foreigners have.
[i] Changes indeed.
[r] Changes in… What I can say. Everything that is good in German society. Everything that is… Everything that is transparent in the… In the proper functioning of this German company is also applicable in the country, In countries, In countries original to any foreigner. That’s to say. Health insurance. The job market. The profit. The benefit depends on retiring. Things like that.
[r] Schools. Teaching.
[i] What would you like in Congolese life here. In friendships. What would you like. Let it change. Compared with. Sometimes. To the conflict that exists. Or else. Misunderstood.
[r] I believe that the Congolese man must first learn to be tolerant. Have a peaceful mind. To be able to claim your fingers in harmony. In calm and understanding. He must also learn patience. Because luck, everyone’s luck does not smile at the same time with others. What else can be said. Take what you find in German society. And the master in application in the country of origin where you come from. I think that’s it. That’s what’s important.
[i] Do you have a souvenir from your country. A souvenir item. something palpable, a memory.
[r] You ask me about memories of my country, for example which ones?
[i] An object… something palpable, an object a watch, or something musical, or a family photo.
[r] Well, I will say that photos.
[i] What do these photos tell you if you look at them today?
[r] Well, looking at these photos, I see maybe the timing, i.e. these photos are mixed. The pleasant moments, the painful moments that I spent at home. What does that interpret to me? Something good or bad. In all sincerity, the photos are images that interpret me, same thing, sometimes make me live in the present, to be able to remember how I was during this period, what happened, which friends I lived with. So, it is an interpretation of so much stories that I sometimes can’t tell. But, because, well, the only difference is that photos are images which do not move, but which interpret something in each person’s mind in their own way. So, I would say that seeing, for example, the photos where I am with my children and my wife, I can remember, ah, this is the beginning of our love. Ah, my child, at that time, he was this, he was that. And with my father, ah, if my dad were still alive. With my mother, ah, if my mother still lived. With my sisters and brothers, oh, if I were together with them at that time. And that’s it, there you go.
[i] Thank you very much. Do you have any final words? I think I’m done with the question. If you have something to convey to us through everything we have just asked about your life as a child, as an adult, about your life as an asylum seeker, about your life today, if you have something to communicate to us.
[r] In any case, the final word I can say… I thank the German authorities, despite the difficulties that I may have encountered in this society, but subsequently and in the end, they granted me these refugee statuses, which allowed me, which allows me to live quite peacefully with all my children. Well, I believe that the modifications, so many modifications have taken place in today’s society, compared, in comparison previously, to the moment we came. I wish there were even better ones, more than in these moments. And on top of that, I thank my interlocutor, my interviewer, that you are. I thank this day. I surrender everything to God. So uh that’s it. May you do your job well. In its continuity. Thank you so much.
[i] Thank you very much [name] I remind you that you are Mr [name] de Herten. And then, you lived here for a long time, as an asylum seeker. And then you have asylum status. You were born in Congo, raised in Congo, until finishing your secondary studies, and also your higher education. Thank you very much for your availability. And we plan to meet soon.
[r] Ok. It’s me who should be thanking you.