[i] Thank you Mr. [name] for your participation in our project of the Museum [Zeche] Hannover in the city of Bochum. We ask you to introduce yourself so that the people who will follow you know who they are dealing with. Where you live and from which country you come.

[r] Thank you for the word, but before I begin I thank you very much for today’s invitation to this interview. I am Mr [name] , I live in the town of Eierspeise [Kierpse?] , Eierspeise [Kierpse?] is near Hagen, maybe some people don’t know that. This is a small town. I’m Congolese, I really came from the Congo, actually from the capital Kinshasa. That’s the way it is.

[i] Thank you very much, you come from Congo, can you tell people who don’t know Congo which continent Congo is in, what the population is like, what important languages are spoken there? And what important things do you find there?

[r] Thank you, Congo is in Africa, in the African continent. Above all, Congo is in the middle of Africa, in Central Africa. Congo, we have Congo Brazzaville, a central African republic, Gabon, Rwanda, Uganda, Burundi, Sudan. These are the countries orbiting Congo [Democratic Republic of Congo] . Congo is really in the middle. Well, now we have about 90 million inhabitants all over Congo. In fact, Kinshsa has about 10 million inhabitants. That’s how it is when I haven’t forgotten. 10 million inhabitants. The main languages we speak there are Lingala, French, Swahili, Kikongo and Tshiluba. These are the languages spoken in Congo. Congo is a beautiful country It is really a beautiful country, it is full of natural resources. Mineral resources that are really many, that the whole world is looking for. Konge is even capable of feeding the whole of Africa and Europe. Because everything is there. There is cobalt, diamonds, gold. Everything is there. So when I look at the Inga hydroelectric power station, it can supply all of Africa with electricity because it has a strong output. Although, as you know, our presidents from Africa don’t have the will or the concern to build Africa. That’s why they’ll realise to this day that Congo is always lagging behind. So the population lives on at least one US dollar a day. You can judge for yourself that’s something that shouldn’t be possible today. These are outrageous things, really outrageous things. But God helped anyway, we have now experienced a change of power. From the President, who was in power for a long time. So he was in power for at least 17 to 18 years. He did nothing, he destroyed the country, there are no roads. But nevertheless he distributed the power according to his will. But not completely according to his will, but also with the pressure of the people, the pressure of the population. He could not bear this pressure, the people were on the streets. They had said that he was no longer allowed to take part in the election because he wanted to achieve a third mandate. The people rejected him, they were against him. He had had no choice, so he accepted. That is why we went to the elections on 30 December. Everything went smoothly and now we have a new president, Felix Antoine Tshilombo. He now leads our country Congo. That is how it is.

[i] Thank you for all the details you have given us. I am sure that people now have an idea about it. Let’s get back to Germany. We would like to ask you, how did you get here to this city called Kierspe? How did it happen that you landed there?

[r] If I’m to start from the beginning, it’s like every person comes. You travel to Germany. You start with the procedure first. Procedure means you have to register with the police. I also went there right away, I met them. They received me, I gave my name [called?] , my whole identity. So it was. They took me [in?] and sent me to the city of Düren. I don’t know if you know the city of Düren. The city of Düren is near Cologne, Leverkusen. I stayed there one day, then I was immediately assigned. I stayed in Düren for at least two months, then I was assigned to Kierspe. This is my city today. Really. Where I live today. I don’t know on which day I will leave this city, because I love this city very much. Although this city is small, but I like it very much. So the city has no disorder, there is no trouble, it is a city of responsible people. Really, there are no thugs, that’s how it is.

[i] Thank you. You’ve arrived in Kierspe, you’ve come all the way from Africa. It was the first time that you came to Germany. What impression did they have of Germany in general when they arrived? Was it a foreign country?

[r] When I say I landed in Germany. The reception I got for myself at the airport, from all people, the customs, […] above all, it was very good. I was very happy. I had not believed that I would find such a reception, because we hear that the Germans are racist. And that they really don’t like black people. But I didn’t notice that. Really, I was very well received. During the whole procedure it was really pleasant. I had been happy about her.

[i] That’s for Germany, let’s take Kierspe now, how did the people of the city of Kierspe [receive them] , what impression did you have of the inhabitants and the authorities of the city of Kierspe, where do they live?

[r] Thank you for the word. When I arrived in Kierspe, I was a bit disappointed. Because I couldn’t bear the place where I had to stay. So it was dirty, really it was very dirty. The toilet was unbearable, there was no place to go. Wherever you stepped, it was impossible. So sometimes we did [spend] three days without going to the toilet, without showering. Because it wasn’t possible to go to the toilet. So we were forced to do our business in a bag and then throw it in the toilet. There were many diseases and we were of different nationalities. We had Syrians, Iraqis, Afghans, people from […] , Moroccans. In any case, we were many. People from different countries. They have their ways of life. In any case, we were there with thieves who went out, they had stolen. They came back with stuff and they sold it. It was like that, but we Congolese, it’s not our way. We don’t steal. When we come to a country, we adapt, that’s what we look for first. But I was really disappointed by the place where I was sent. That wasn’t so good, and at that moment we wanted to learn. But they hadn’t given us the opportunity. They said that we Congolese and other friends from Mali, from Guinea, whom I found there, should not learn the language. The people who were allowed to learn were Syrians, Iraqis, Somalis, and people from Eritrea. They are the people who were lucky enough to learn. We had not had the luck to be able to learn. I stayed at least a year and a half without going to school. I started my own research myself, I learned with Google and Youtube. I could say “please” and “thank you”. Knowledge from my own power. To search with this strength, how one can adapt, in this environment, in this city, where I have gone, I have searched with my own strength. I was able to find an association of women who were gathering to help people who were new. I looked for them, I met with them. I told her that I wanted to learn. They were looking for a woman for me who started to give me a course. That was once a week. Little by little. That was twice a week. I did [the course] for three months. In those three months they found a job in a school, but in another city. I started going to school in that city. I learned at least three months in this city. After that I was lucky to get an internship. That was in a company. I did that, I was accepted in this company. I work there now. Kierspe is a good city. In any case, the mentality of the people I met there is good. Besides, only old people live there. There are not so many young people. There you meet a lot of old people. Old women. These old people are sometimes afraid when you meet them on the street. They can’t approach you. That had destroyed us a bit [disturbed?] . But they’re not racist. But that’s their way, they’ve been dragged like that. Until they got old, they didn’t have a habit of being with people like us. But with time they got used to us. We talk well together. On the street we greet each other. Even they start greeting us. That’s why we live well together. Really, I am satisfied with them. The city is good. Especially if you want to work. Then it is only up to you. Because in our town Kierspe, there is no unemployment. If you want to be unemployed, that is only your will. You prefer to stay at home and go on sleeping. There is work. If you are looking for work, you will get some. Really, if you are looking for work, you will get it. This is a good city. What is bad here is to get paper. In Kierspe and in the surrounding area it is hard to get a stay. There are many complications. I have acquaintances and friends who live there. They have already been recognized. They had already received papers. But to get that, the electronic card, it’s hard. One man had waited another year. Then he got an electronic card. But he had to wait a year. But in other cities, if you’re recognized, then it doesn’t take long. After two or three months. I also have friends in other cities. In food or in other cities. If the asylum is recognized, after three months, then he gets his card. The electronic card. But that is not the case there. That is why we have some regrets.

[i] Thank you very much for all the details. When you arrived in Germany, what idea did you have about the Germans? What idea did you have about you, what would you be? What did you see as the opposite?

[r] When I came, in Fern [in the distance?] , when I hadn’t yet arrived in Germany. We had heard that the Germans were strict, that the Germans were racist, that the Germans didn’t like Africans. The Germans are only [to the extent] [that] they don’t really like making friends with people. [?] But when I came, I didn’t see that. Really, I didn’t notice. And I haven’t seen it yet. That I had really noticed that a German doesn’t like a foreigner, I haven’t seen that yet. But I hear that. I hear that there are many racists in other cities. But I haven’t gone to these cities yet, I just hear that. But I have not experienced it myself. Really, I have not yet experienced that. The Germans I work with like me very much. We have a very good relationship with each other. They themselves know that Europeans [don’t?] invite you to their home, let you in, that’s difficult. But the Germans I am with, whether women or men, they really invite me, they let me in. We drink, eat, and talk together. In any case, it is really good. I don’t have anything bad with the Germans yet, I really haven’t seen anything [bad?] yet. They are good with me, so am I, I am good with them. Even friends I’m with, I haven’t heard anything bad yet in all cases. But from afar we had heard that the Germans were very strict. They would be like that. But on this side I congratulate them very much. Because their police, which they call “police” themselves, they really know their work. And the German people still really respect their police. They are afraid of the police. Above all, they are afraid of the law. They know themselves, in the country, if the law is not respected, then it is no longer a country. But here the Germans first respect the law of their country. First of all, they respect their army, their police. And now, you are a stranger who has come new. Do you see that the locals obey the police, what should you do? You just have to follow the same rhythm. In this context I really congratulate them, they are very strict. Their laws are good, although some say that these laws are hard. They control people very much. So the Germans are very strict, but in my opinion I think that’s very good, that’s good, I’m very happy. Your good side is also the police. You will never see that they will just call someone on the street. “Come here, come here! What do you have, show me.” That they are hogging something, nothing. In any case there is no such thing. If you see them, you can go to them and greet them. You can go further, they also go their way further. Even if you meet them in the night, at 1 o’clock, 2 o’clock, never will they stop you to ask where you come from at 1 o’clock or 2 o’clock. Never ever. Because I sometimes come back at 1 or 2 o’clock, I meet them often. Sometimes they stop me and they greet me, we talk a little about health, then they go on and I also go on I go on. But never will they arrest you, maltreat you, no, no. Their behavior is ok.

[i] Let’s leave the side of the Germans. Try a comparison between the law here in Germany and the law at home, that is, in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

[r] If I were to talk about rights, if the right that prevails here in Germany were also [with us] […] . We also have laws, there are strong laws, above all there are laws. But there is no respect for the laws. Because there is a lot of corruption. Someone can do something bad, he’s also arrested, he’s also put in prison, but after two or three days he’s released again with the help of corruption, with money. He is released. He is gone. But here, never, you can see such things, when the police arrest someone, take someone with them, then they bribe him, then they give him money so that he is released, never. Those are things I am talking about. If people would respect that, also the laws in Africa, then we would be like here. I can say from another side, if [that?] people don’t respect the laws in Africa exactly, especially our army and the police, I can say it’s sot everywhere, because there’s also a crisis. Like a policeman who gets 50 Us dollars a month. He has to pay for an apartment, he has to pay for electricity and water, he has to eat, the children have to go to school. With 50 dollars. He can’t survive with that. That is not possible. He is forced to take money. If someone bribes him, he has to accept it. At first you have to start paying them well, then the corruption will also come to an end. If you are well paid, you will not accept corruption. That is the advantage of Germany. The policeman will be well paid. The military is well paid. Everyone is really well paid. That is why there is no corruption. Everyone respects the law. Because you know that if you break the law, you get arrested. He cannot be bribed. If the court decides to imprison him for five years or ten years, then he will stay that way. But we there [in the Congo] , if they send you to prison for ten years, you can laugh. Because you know that you will only stay one month. The mother will bribe people, then you will be fired. That’s how it is. That’s the bad thing in Africa.

[i] We know that in Germany there are many obstacles when someone arrives new. Which obstacles did you encounter first? Obstacles, that is, something where someone has prevented them from getting ahead.

[r] For me, the big obstacle, really, I didn’t encounter it. There was only one big obstacle for me, as I said, I came and I was not yet given the opportunity to learn. But I really wanted to learn as soon as I arrived in Germany. But I was told that we Congolese were not allowed to do that. We were not allowed to learn. Because allegedly the European Community only gives money to enable people from Syria, Iraq, Somalia and Eritrea to learn, but not us. Because of this, I had a regret. It did me no good. I stayed a year and a half without learning. Really, I had not learned. That gave me a delay. The people who came together with me or who I met here, where I had arrived, because they were Syrians, Iraqis, they already started to learn. They have already started to speak the language. But we came together. But I haven’t started to speak yet. I only knew “thank you” and “please”. Only that I knew. But I gradually learned from my own strength. That is the problem I found. So in the next few days [in the future?] you should give this opportunity to everyone who comes. You shouldn’t distinguish the countries. Oh he is Syrian, he may learn, the Somali, he may learn, no, we are all human beings. Everyone who has come here should have the opportunity to learn the language. He really has to go to school. If they can get this favour, then the other nationalities, Congolese, Guineans, Malians, then we should all get this favour. We must also learn. Let us assume that someone comes today, for example, he says that he wants to learn, you should send him to school. There he can learn. Instead of separating, distinguishing, some are allowed to learn, some are not. Some have to enlighten themselves. That is very bad. I really would ask the Germans to change this regulation. They should give the opportunity to all people who are in this country. They should get this opportunity to learn. One should not consider that only Syrians should learn. Only Syrians get papers, only Iraqis get papers. No, everyone who comes. The law says that everyone who has escaped from problems and has come to another country to apply for asylum should be protected. This person deserves protection. There are laws that they themselves have elected in the European Community. When a person has fled and is wanted for a political problem, he comes here and his asylum is not recognised. While, while this man fled from there because of problems. If you send him back there, he would be killed. What then? It is not good, it becomes, as it is called, a failure to help people in danger of their lives. They are the ones who forbid oppression. You are talking about respect for human rights. But you arrest someone who is wanted and even they send him back. That is the regret that something disturbs a bit. The consideration of countries. People from some countries are preferred, for school, for papers, for work. They are preferred for everyone. But people from other countries do not have this possibility. That’s the way it is, I think it’s a bit bad.

[i] Thank you for the recommendations to the authorities. I know when someone arrives here, when a foreigner arrives in Germany, like you came from a country where French and Congo languages are spoken. You came here and the language here is German. How did you do that in the beginning, so that you could get along, talk to people, have contacts with authorities, with the police and with the Foreigners’ Office and with the citizens of your city, how did you do that?

[r] In any case, it was really difficult for me in the beginning. Look, I stayed another year and a half. But in the beginning I had looked for the women who were close to us. I had had a bit of luck, because a woman nearby could speak a little French. She could cope with it. It was like when I had a letter, I brought it to her and she read it and explained the contents to me. Some things I didn’t understand because she didn’t speak French so well, but she helped me. She had accompanied me to the authority at that time. That’s why we travelled a lot together. She had helped me in this phase. One day I was called to report. I had called her so that we could go together. She had told me that she had no time. She had to go out on her own. That was the moment that had given me the strength. I had said that I had to make an effort to learn at home myself so that I alone could keep my appointments. From that moment I started using Youtube and Google to know what the meaning of “thank you” was in French, “with” in French […] I learned a few words. And I have impressed with myself with the time more and more words. One day I told myself that I wouldn’t call anyone to accompany me. I went alone to the foreigners’ office. I went in, I was amazed. I went in, I tried to print myself out peu a peu. The man heard me and understood me. He even congratulated me and asked me if I had already attended school. I answer: “Not yet, but I’m trying to come by myself”. In any case, he was very satisfied with me. But I congratulate this woman, because since she had no time to accompany me, that had motivated me. I told myself that I would not call her again. I will try to keep my appointments on my own. Until today I go alone to my appointments. Another effort I had made, since we were many, with Malians, Guineans, and so on. We had tried to speak in German. Even if you don’t know, for example, you had said “thank you” to the others and the other one answered “thank you” as well. One said “please” and the other answered “please”. That was so. We had spoken to each other in German. Sometimes we had decided that one day we would not speak our language. We would only speak German. Everyone had to try to get along with German. In any case, we had somehow talked, what we knew, we had spoken. That could be good or bad, [main thing] you just kept talking. But that had brought us a lot. That had also helped. Today we can talk a little. You can go to an office even if you meet a German who speaks German quickly. Even if you explain to him that he speaks fast, he can’t speak slowly either. He is so used to speaking fast. But still it works. Today it works.

[i] We continue our story, [name] , now we want to know where you live. In the city of Kierspe there is a district where you live, or is there no district because the city is small? If there is a part of Kierspe where you live, can you describe it?

[r] In my town Kierspe, in my town Kierspe there are no districts, because the town is small. So you can walk from the beginning of the city to the end on the other side in 30 minutes. Then again to the other side, to the other end. In 30 minutes you are ready. So in two hours you can walk the whole city of Kierspe. I mean the city center. Only where there are houses. You can walk through it in two hours. In two hours I can do the whole thing. Kierspe is a bit big, but the rest is just forest. But in the city, where the houses are, in two hours you have expired the whole thing. Then you’re done because the city is very small.

[i] In Kinshasa, in which commune did you live?

[r] In Kinshasa I lived in Ngiri Ngiri commune. I lived right between the streets of Ngambela and Kharthoum.

[i] If you have your district in Kierspe, let’s say your small town Kierspe and the place where you lived, Ngiri Ngiri, how can you compare the two? How can you compare the two? How are the people? How are the two cities structured?

[r] First of all, when I look at the construction, I will say that the Europeans have their way of building their houses. We also have our [type] . Let’s see, Europe wasn’t built today, they started a long time ago, long before us. That’s why they’re a bit more developed. We’re still a little down, we’re down [underdeveloped?] . But to see how you live it’s good here in Kierspe. Because there is no noise. You have enough time to do something, […] to rest compared to us there. On the other hand, we are already at 4 o’clock, at 5 o’clock everyone is already outside. At five o’clock everyone is outside. Even small children, old people, we are all on the street. Everyone sets up his table to sell something. But it’s not like that here in Kierspe. I’m talking about Kierspe, it’s not like that in Kierspe. You can’t see someone setting up a table and selling something like onions, chives, no, that doesn’t exist. You will never see that you meet five people on the street at once. You meet the first person, then after a few steps the next […] . It’s not like that there in Kierspe, you can walk about a few kilometres without meeting people on the street. Because everyone in a small town has his car. He strolls quietly and alone with his car. There aren’t really many pedestrians. But if, as far as the mood is concerned, really, from the side of the mood, Congo is ahead. Congo really has more of that. Because we Congolese like a good mood. Everyone knows that, we also like to dress well, that’s our culture, of us Congolese. But the Germans who are with us in Kierspe, they are very clean, I like them very much. But if you look at Kierspe and my municipality Ngiri Ngiri or my city Kinshasa, then the difference is very big. If I say that the difference is big because if I take a German who lives in Kierspe and I bring him to my commune Ngir Ngiri, then he can’t live there. He will notice that it is very loud there. Because there are children playing on the street, it is very loud. He cannot bear it. We grew up with it, we are so used to it. In any case, we are so used to it. When I arrived in Kierspe it was a bit difficult. Because I came from the side where it is loud and then I came to a place where there is no noise. You are always at home, you don’t go out, and in Kierspe there is no place where you can go to sit down and talk. There is no such thing. As I see it in other cities, as in Essen. There are places where people can go, where they can sit down and talk. We do not have that in Kierspe. Really, we do not have that in Kierspe. Therefore there is a little regret, but nevertheless I am happy about it. I also like it that way, because I have already become so accustomed, I can no longer bear a place where it is loud. For example, if I say that I would go to Congo in my commune, I can no longer, really, live there with the noise, I will no longer be able to, because I have now arrived in a place where it is quiet. There are no people on the street, I am always at home when I come back from work I stay at home. But compared to Congo, I don’t go back home after work because there are many bars. There are many things, there are many people on the street. Also in the night, at one or two o’clock, there are still many people on the street. But in Kierspe, there is nobody on the street already at 5 pm. These are some differences. But where you have arrived, when you are already used to it, when you are already adapted to the culture there, then that’s better. As with me, I’ve already adapted, I’m already used to it. I can’t live completely with myself in the Congo anymore. In this respect, the Congo, the way people live there, the mood there, I can no longer bear that. Since I’m already used to the peace and quiet from here and the culture I’ve encountered here. I am also used to their food, to the food of the Germans. I am really used to it. In the beginning I couldn’t, especially in the asylum where we were. The food that was given to us, really, I couldn’t. Sometimes I hadn’t eaten for two days, I just had breakfast. In the morning I had taken bread, drank tea. But in the evening I could not bear the food. Really, I had suffered, lost weight, really accepted, because I could not bear the food. For the first time in my life I ate this dish. The first time I ate it. But now I am used to it. Really, I am used to it. If I haven’t eaten it, I can’t anymore. I am really used to it, even the Germans who work with me, if they have invited me to them, if they offer me the food, then I really eat. I really eat that better now.

[i] Let’s talk about leisure, for example, if you don’t have a job, you’re free, how do you use your time to talk? What do you do, where do you go, what hobbies do you have in your life in Germany?

[r] What does that mean in Kierspe? If I don’t have to go to work that day, like Saturday and Sunday, I don’t work there, Saturday morning I get up at 5 o’clock, or at 7 o’clock. I go out, I jog, I run. When I’m done I come back and do some gymnastics at home. When I’m done, I have my breakfast. Then I go out, because we don’t have a place in Kriespe where you can go. Then I have to call a friend, then I visit him. We talk, go out, go for a walk, then everyone goes back to their home. If I have a ticket, because there tickets are expensive, especially in comparison with Essen, Bochum, where there are tickets a little cheaper. With us the bus goes only from Kierspe to the other city. So the bus does not go inside Kierspe, there is no such thing. Only it goes from my city to the other city. That’s why the ticket is expensive. If I leave my city to go to the other city, it costs at least four euros and something, or four euros and fifty. If I have to go there and back, I have to pay about ten euros. But this city is only connected to ours, but I have to spend almost ten euros. That is also a reason why we don’t go out often. Because the ticket is expensive, there the authorities should try to help us. It’s about the cities, like Kierspe, Lüdenscheid, Manneshagen, Halver. You should try to look at the prices of the ticket, the prices are very high. We cannot drive away often. There are also no places for entertainment in Kierspe. Sometimes we go to the city of Lüdenscheid, there are a few places to sit down. There are some gardens, you can sit down, there are also many people. People come from other cities and we gather there. There we see music groups playing, festivals taking place. There in Lüdenscheid there are always festivals. There are many festivals. They help us a little. If you don’t go to work, you are forced to go to Lüdenscheid, because you can talk there, better than if you only stay in Kierspe. Really, it is very sad. So Kierspe is very stressful. To escape the stress you have to go to Lüdenscheid. That does us a bit good. What is still bad in Kierspe is that there is no station for passenger trains. That’s the worst, that’s the disadvantage. Even if you went out, you are forced to return home at 9 pm because there are no buses after 9 pm. Really, there is no bus. Even if you have gone to Lüdenscheid, you are there in the mood of the music, but if you look at the time, then you always think about returning at 9 pm. Then you have stress again. You know that there is nothing in Kierspe, I will only go there to sleep, really, only to sleep. That is what still disturbs us. Therefore, if they still want to help us, they could postpone the time of the last bus. They could also build a passenger train station for us. Since the train now, it only goes through the city without stopping. The train from Meinzhegen goes through the city and continues. Especially since I don’t go to work in Kierspe on Saturday, I am forced to go outside. So that I can visit friends who live in Bochum and Essen. In any case I go. If I have missed the time it becomes difficult for me. If I take a train in Lüdenscheid, this train travels through our city near my apartment. I see my apartment, but I have to go on to the other city, Meinezhagen. I get off there and there is no bus to go home. Then I have to walk home. At night I have to walk from Meinezhagen to Kierspe. Both sides forest, alone in the forest you shall run. There is also no light, you have to walk in the darkness, all the way to Kierspe. That is the worry we have. That is why we ask the authorities to help us. They should set up a station for us where a passenger train can stop. We would be very happy if you would arrange this for us.

[i] You spoke here about the food. You are already used to German food. As I know, [it is the case that a Congolese also needs food from the Congo. If you want to eat food from the Congo, […] what do you do, do you have the opportunity to get it? Is there a shop that offers such food from the Congo? You will be satisfied with that. [?]

[r] If I want to eat food from the Congo, it was a bit difficult for me at the beginning. It was like when friends came from France or Belgium, they brought me food from the Congo. That had helped me. But with time you get used to the country, then I discovered the place where you sell our food from the Congo. […] That did me a lot of good. When I want to eat food from the Congo, I go as far as Hagen. There is a woman who has opened a shop there, she sells food from the Congo. All food from the Congo. […] I can get that there. Then I buy it and take it to myself. The difficulty is unfortunate, then I really can’t cook. I can’t cook. But I have gradually tried it myself. If I may say something briefly, I don’t know, we have food there that can be called pondu.  […] First I cooked it with tomatoes, I put tomato in it. I always cooked like that with tomatoes and then ate it. While we actually cook these leaves without tomatoes. That hurt me a lot [?] but I cooked that with tomatoes for a long time. I ate them like that for a long time. But now I’m satisfied because I can eat all the food. Everything I want from us from the Congo. I eat it regularly, if I want to eat it one day, then I will eat it. […] […] If I want to eat German food, then I will eat that too. I have become very good at eating. I’m good on that point. I’m eating very well now.

[i] Apart from Hagen, is there a shop in other cities in your region to buy things?

[r] Apart from Hagen, there are other [shops] that were opened in Wuppertal, and they still exist today. If there is not something in Hagen, then I go there to Wuppertal and I buy it there. There is another job in Dortmund. I was there once. I also have a friend who also sells food from Africa in Duisburg. She helps me, if you want to buy something, you can simply call her, she comes with her car and she brings the goods home to you. In any case it helps and that helps a lot. Really, that helps us. With her you can even just order everything you need, then she comes with her car to your apartment to bring the thing […] . We in Kierspe, if you still have to go away, the return trip to buy things, it costs a lot of money. This money, if I want to buy things from the Congo, [for this money] I can eat for two weeks. The food for the fare, I can eat for two weeks. Then I have to buy tickets with this money just to go there and back to Hagen. It’s a loss, I think it’s a big loss. I still have to buy a ticket to go to Hagen. With this money, I can eat for two weeks. If I [want] African food.

[i] Now we want to talk about contacts, we people, we need contacts. Since we come from Africa we need contacts with Africans. But since we are in Europe we also need contacts with Europeans. Do you also have contacts with your community, say the Congolese community? If so, of what kind?

[r] So, […] at the beginning, it was a bit difficult because I was new. I didn’t know any people. But since I went out and often went for walks, I had sometimes met Congolese people on my way. We had exchanged addresses from time to time. One day you go to his apartment. You can talk. He may also get another visit. Then you also make acquaintance with the visit, and so on. The relationship continues to grow. I also discovered our church, the church of the Congolese. And there I met many Congolese people. I often visited the church, I met many people there. Within our community I really became known and God also helped. Then I got to know an association called Bosangani. There I met more people, Guineans, Gabonese, Congolese, Angolans […] . I also met people there, I was very happy about our organization “Bosangani” [in Bochum] . That helps a lot of people. Really a lot of people, especially the people who come new. This association really helps. […] A course is also offered there. Well, it gives people orientation so they can know what Germany is like. If someone is new, the culture of Germany is explained to them. We explain to him what the Germans like. What does German law say. In any case, people get good information there in the association Bosangani. Congratulations to the association, to the people who got this idea, new people who come to help. I am very happy because when I go there, I meet all the people: Moroccans, Guineans, Gabonese, all nationalities. There you will meet all nationalities. Really, I am very happy.

[i] Thank you very much. They have enough contact with Congolese and Africans. Do you also have contacts with Germans? If so, what kind? How did you get these contacts?

[r] So let’s say […] to get in touch with Germans, in my town in Kierspe, there are women who have come together to form a group. They founded an association in Kriespe. Other people are there as donors who pay a contribution every month. These women have founded their association, at the end of the month they pay a contribution. They were looking for us in our asylum. They had given us an invitation so that we could meet every Monday in a church. We went there every Monday. And we met German men and women there. We ate coffee and bread and talked. We had had relationships there. That was how it started. But strong relationship with Germans, I got at work. At work we meet, we talk, we exchange telephone numbers. A colleague can call me from his apartment and I can also call him. A colleague can visit me and I can also visit him. Other relationships with Germans are established in the church. Because there is a church there to which they go. They have come to our place. And they picked us up early in the morning by car. Then we went to church. They hadn’t considered whether you were Muslim, they just picked us up, we went to the church, then we prayed, and after the church they brought us back. Then I had some relationships. I have made relationships with the people from the church, I have relationships with the women’s association in Kierspe who came together to help people who came new. And the relationships I made at work. All this helped me to establish contacts with Germans. It’s bad with real German friends, women and men if you have a relationship with a young woman and the parents realize that the child [the daughte[r] is a child of the family. has an African, that’s a really big problem. The mother will do anything to ban this relationship. She must forbid this relationship. That makes us problems, therefore […] . We have relationships, friendships, but mostly with old people. Only friendships with old people with whom we have a relationship.

[i] In what languages do they speak to people? Do they speak in German, or do they sometimes change languages and they speak me with African languages, or do you only speak in German, what you know?

[r] Especially me, in my town of Kierspe. There are at least three people who speak French. One of them speaks French very well. Two others try to get along with French. Well, I can’t really confirm that they speak French. So, they try. But with some German we have, we try to talk to them in German when we meet. They don’t want to speak other languages when we meet. They like that we only speak German. So that we can further improve our German language, this is what happens when we are together.

[i] Let’s talk about culture. Our African culture and German culture. They are different. That is, our way of life, our language and our tradition. What do you think of German culture?

[r] So, if I may make a little remark, German culture and our African culture are not the same. And they won’t be the same. I think the German culture that I found here is very good. They often like [a good?] mood. They like to celebrate, they like to drink often. There really are, […] everyone knows that. They like to drink. In any case, if a German says that we should meet at 10 o’clock, really, in any case, then it must be 10 o’clock. If you miss 10 o’clock, it becomes a problem. That is demanded that you have to give several explanations. You have to find a way to explain your delay. But if you said 10 o’clock, it must also be 10 o’clock. Their way of life is only for Germans, I haven’t seen it in other people [yet] . We Afrcans also have our [way of life?] . If you bring our culture from Africa so that you can adapt to the culture you have found here. But that takes time. It takes time, really. It takes time. There are people who can’t do that. They cannot. An adaptation to German culture. There are people who come and they get used to this culture. That’s how it is. But with time we get used to the way of life of the Germans. To life.

[i] They know that the Congolese like music very much, they like dance, music is played all over Africa. Do you miss our music, or not?

[r] So our music, which I miss, [that?] is too much to say [?] . I can say because I have music because we have music that we call Circillic music and the music that we call profane music or secular music. I never listen to profane music, only church music. If I want to listen to them, I go to Youtube. And I look for this music and I listen to it. I often prefer German music. Because when I listen to it, my knowledge of German gets better. With it I can hear the emphasis better, then apply it later. That’s why I prefer German music. So every day I listen to the radio. And I listen to music, or I follow this music on television. I follow it through the show. For me it is good for the language. Because this music, there are others I have not got used to yet. I am not yet familiar with some German songs. But with time, as I hear them more often, I will get used to them. I can say that I am already used to it. But if I want to listen to our music, music from the Congo, then I will definitely go to Youtube. There I listen to our music. I can say that I listen to it almost every day. So our music, because […] there is some stress in Kierspe, then you hear our music, it does you good. […] Sometimes I listen to German music and it does me good. So, during the day I mix the two. I really mix the two music styles so that I don’t forget ours and also the German music. That’s why I mix them every day. I listen to these a little and I also listen to the other one a little. I also hear the news. Especially often I follow the news from Germany on television. The country where I live is where I have to adapt. I need to know how the country runs, what they want, what their laws are, what happened that day, what information is there about the day? Really, I won’t miss that. Every day. When I come home from work, I follow the news at home.

[i] Thank you if you are asked to make a comparison between the population of Kierspe who lives with you, with the population of Ngiri Ngiri with whom you grew up, what can you say?

[r] I can say that there is a strong difference. Really. Because the Germans know how to live with people. They respect people. Since I’ve been in Kierspe, I haven’t seen a German fight with another. So I haven’t seen it yet. I haven’t seen yet that Germans are fighting each other or that they come together. Then the police come. I haven’t seen that yet. I haven’t seen a German writing on the street [hitting?] yet either, I haven’t seen that yet. But on the other hand we have fights every day, people often argue, people fight, the police come, a person is injured, they are taken to the Krenkenhaus. Especially here in Kierpe, where I live, here I have never found such a thing. Until today, since I came to Germany, I haven’t experienced this yet. Really, I haven’t found anything like that yet, that two Germans are beating up or a German with a foreigner, I haven’t seen that yet. On the other hand, I see other nationalities fighting each other. These can be Syrians and Iraqis who fight, or Africans with Iraqis, or with Moroccans, or with Syrians. But I haven’t yet seen an African fight with a German. I haven’t seen that yet. Before all I have not yet seen that a German is fighting a German. Or that a German fights with a German, not yet. I haven’t seen that yet, it’s often only foreigners. They are foreigners who often fight each other. For comparison, here in Afrka, in the Congo, there are many fights, even among children. Children fight with each other, sometimes they stand early in the morning and fight each other. For what reason? Maybe dad gave a child money for bread and the other child didn’t get any money from dad because dad has no more money. He is angry, he sees that others [child] eats and he does not eat. He is jealous and they fight each other. It’s the same with the adults. One of them didn’t get any money for the food, he walks around with his anger in his heart, if someone pushes him only slightly, he gets angry and he will quickly fight with the other one. There almost all people are angry because of the difficulties, because of the suffering. People have a bad thing in their heads. Prostitution is done by young women and minors. Minors become prostitutes, they go out at night, a child at the age of 14 will be with a man at the age of 60 [togethe[r] just to get money. While I haven’t seen anything like it here with the Germans that a young woman at 14 or at 15 is [togethe[r] with a man at 60. In Germany I definitely haven’t seen that yet. What I’m saying is what I’ve seen and what I haven’t seen yet. But I haven’t seen it yet. I haven’t seen a man at 60 with a young woman at 14 or at 15 [togethe[r] . […] I haven’t done that yet.

[i] Thank you very much, you have arrived in Germany, first in Düren and then in Kierspe, where you now live. When you arrived there, did you have people who had helped you? When you came, with the first steps, do you remember someone who helped you? Is someone very important to you, and if so, why?

[r] When I came to my town, I was accommodated with a friend from Mali. He is the one who helped me a lot. Since I was new, I didn’t know the ways, I didn’t know the offices. He had helped me. Until today we are together, I thank him very much. I cannot forget him, he is still in my heart today. And still some colleagues from Guinea were there, 2I cannot forget them. There is also a German woman, she has helped me a lot, really siw has helped me a lot. She even picked me up in the apartment, we drove to Lüdenscheid, we drove to the offices, she had come with her car, she had picked me up, we were gone. It could be any time. No matter when I had an appointment, 10 o’clock or 11 o’clock, 12 o’clock […] So any time she came, she picked me up, then we left. She as well, I will never forget her. I really will never forget her. And wherever she is now, I give her many greetings, Mrs. Vera in Kierspe, and Mrs. Ulrike. They are all in Kierspe. They helped me a lot. Thanks to them I got the private flat where I still live today. Thanks to them. They found this apartment for me, I signed the contract with the landlord. The apartment that I paid for myself at the end of the month. She found the apartment for me. They fought a lot because it was said in our city that there was no apartment. There is no apartment, because the place where we lived was not so good. […] The toilets were bad, it wasn’t okay and with their help I could get an apartment. They fought a lot. Then they found an apartment for me. Where I am today. Wherever they are, I greet them. Many greetings, Mrs. Ulrike and Mrs. Vera. Where they are, many greetings. I will not forget them in my life. Everything they have done for me, until today. They help me further, they come to [my] home, they ask me about my work, about my health, about my life. Sometimes they stay with me for 10 minutes, they also come to my apartment, drink a cup of coffee. […] There are people, especially many Europeans, if you receive them in your home and only offer them coffee, then they don’t want to take it. […] But not them. When they’re in your apartment, they sit still. You can give them tea, they drink without a problem, they eat bread too. They are well entertained. When they’re done, they go away quietly. So, it can’t be two months without one of them coming back to ask about my health, how I am, […] how I live, what problems I have, what difficulties I have. When I have difficulty, I tell them that and they really help me. They help me. An example I can give when we got the flat, we didn’t know that we had to pay for the electricity ourselves. […] We didn’t know that. But we had lived there for at least five months, then we got a bill. […] We had to pay for the five months. […] We had said that when we got there we had got the apartment and we didn’t know that we had to pay for the electricity. We had to pay, we had to pay at least […] thousand and some euros afterwards. That was with reminder fees. We did not know what to do. This woman, Mrs Ulrike, she has come. Then we took steps together at the power utilities [Stadtwerke?] . We went there, she talked to these people. Then they reduced the fee to 800 euros. She paid 800 euros herself with her own money. She paid it, I can never forget that. She paid herself, then we should repay her by instalments. That is how it was. God is supposed to protect her!

[i] Thank you very much for her positive testimony. Many people who are reluctant to Germans, or […] or who give negative testimony about the Germans, with the examples you have given, show that there are also people with good hearts. In general, what advice can you give to the people who give negative testimony about the Germans? According to your experiences, which are very positive. Many say that the Germans are reserved, but after what you have said, they are not like that. What advice can you give to the people who have this negative image?

[r] As advice I will say it, because I myself, before I came here to Germany, only heard that the Germans are so, that the Germans are hard, that many are racists. […] But when I came I approached them [?] and I saw that they were not like that. I really saw that they weren’t like that. They are really very good. Because of that as advice to some acquaintances: Just what you hear is not good. When you hear something, get closer to that person, get to know them first, then you can know that sue is good. Then you can say that you avoid this German for nothing, but he is good. If you approach someone, only then can you know what their good sides are and what their bad sides are. But don’t judge them from afar. Just because someone told you that the Germans are bad. The Germans are so and so, no, get closer to them, then you can know. Everywhere in the world, even in the countries from which we came, there is that. There are also some Congolese who have their own behaviour. That’s the way it is, you can’t change them. Here too, with the Germans, there are also some who are like that. He has his behaviour, his behaviour is like that, you cannot change him. He doesn’t like foreigners, that’s him, there’s such a thing everywhere, even in France, Belgium, the USA […] . We see that the white policemen from America are killing the black American population. Although they didn’t do anything. Everywhere there is such a thing. It’s not like when you meet a German who treats you hard, you shouldn’t look at all Germans that way. No, they are not all like that. What advice will I give, we should approach them, we should not avoid them. We should approach each other, we should unite. Then we will see that the Germans are good. They are really good people. You can live with them. When I look at the things, the things that happen in the USA, here in Germany it has not happened yet that a German policeman kills a foreigner. I don’t want to say [especially] an African, but a foreigner. This foreigner did nothing, but he simply killed him. I haven’t seen that yet. Really, I haven’t seen that yet. We should get closer to them, we have to go to them because they also have their culture. We who have come here, we have come from different corners, we have come many, everyone has his behaviour. We have come here, among us are criminals, thieves, crooks and rapists. You can’t just get close to you about that, they don’t know you. He doesn’t know you, he must be afraid. He must be careful, he must protect himself because he doesn’t know you. Many people have come. That’s how it is, we normally have to go to them and show that we’re not like that. We are not like that. If a German thought, if I approach this man, then he is like that. No. If you approach him, then the German will notice that the man is good. You will also understand that the advice of brother [name] is good, he spoke really well, he is right. So if you approach someone, you will see that he is very good, that the Germans are very good.

[i] We want to talk about the housing situation. They’ve talked about it before. When you came, what was your housing situation like? Can you briefly explain that to us? How has that changed so far? That is, your living situation, your apartment, how has your situation changed until today, what was it like?

[r] When I arrived, as I said at the beginning, I was assigned to a place where I was not very satisfied. I wasn’t satisfied because it was very bad. That was very very bad. So I didn’t go to the bathroom for two or three days. But I searched alone for possibilities, bought toilet products, cleaned the toilet, bought gloves. After a week our boss came, he came, he saw the toilet, he asked all people who had cleaned the toilet. He was told that there is a Congolese guy here who came here new, who made it. He was looking for me and he congratulated me. I was very happy about that in any case. I was very happy. I stayed in this place for a long time until the women I told you about came. So they helped me to get the apartment I have today. They also helped me with school and a lot of other things. When I am in the apartment where I live today, it is thanks to these women. They really fought, they fought, so that I could get the flat where I live now. Now I am really calm, I feel comfortable where I am, I sleep calmly. Everything is comfortable, the apartment is good, I have a TV at home, I have Internet at home, there is WLAN, I have a radio, I have everything that is necessary at home. Everything that is necessary for one person I have at home. When you enter my kitchen, you will be stowing away that it is my kitchen. The kitchen is beautiful, the bedroom is beautiful, everything is really very good. Even these women who gave us the apartment when they came, they congratulate us for the cleanliness of the apartment. Really, how clean the apartment is. But one regret I have is how our landlord behaves. That makes us difficulties. Because there is a place in our kitchen where you can wash the dishes. So there are pipes down there, the water no longer flows. When you’ve washed dishes, the water doesn’t flow. The water no longer flows. We’ve told him several times so you can fix it, but he won’t come. We have said more, but without success. The women who gave us the apartment went to him several times, he will come, but he never came. To this day, it is already two years ago, that with this disturbance. So ware is flushed now is a toilet. Plate, spoon […] I don’t know, you can understand that yourself. If you wash the dishes in the toilet, I don’t know what can happen then, germs […] . It’s not good for us. We looked at whether he was racist. Because […] Fortunately he is not German. He is Turkish. His wife is Turkish. Until today we always live under these conditions, we flush the dishes in the toilet. So we wash the dishes in the toilet. Since we did everything, we informed him, but did not happen. We have given up. We no longer know what we can do. We told ourselves that he can do what he wants, what he thinks is good. I pray when God helps to find people who can help me to move out there. I want to look for another apartment. I am forced to look for another apartment. I can no longer live under these conditions. This can cause illness. It can bring us many diseases if we wash dishes in the toilet. It happens that the colleague who lives with me is using the toilet for his needs. When he just comes out, you are forced to go in there to wash dishes, to wash cooking pots, to wash clothes. I don’t know if I have germs. I don’t know what germs are present in my body. People with a good heart could help me to leave this apartment and get another one, because I can’t bear these conditions anymore, I can’t bear this situation for more than three months [more than three months?] . It’s really not good.

[i] Thank you for everything you said. Now you are here in Germany, you go to work or you go to school or what do you do? […] Can you describe your daily routine? A normal day, how’s that going?

[r] My daily routine, when I have to go to work, I get up at 5 o’clock, I shower, […] I prepare myself, I go out at 6 o’clock, I go to work, I come back home at 4 o’clock, I look for something to eat, I switch on the TV, I follow the German news. When that’s done, I go out for a bit, I go out to get some air, 30 to 40 minutes. Then I quickly come back home. I take my notebook to try to learn the German language. I learn at least 30 minutes every day. When I’m done, I go back to the TV, I listen to the music from the Congo, I’m done there, I still listen to the German music, I follow a show that I really like, unfortunately I don’t remember the name anymore, I watch it almost every day. When I’m done there I sleep around 21 and 22 o’clock. If I don’t have to go to work, I get up in the morning, at 5 or 6 o’clock or 7 o’clock I go outside to do some sports. I run, I jog. Then I come back, I do sports at home. At 10 o’clock I look for something to eat, I eat, I watch television. I go back to sleep when I don’t have to leave. Since I like sports, I’m only in front of the TV on Saturday. I watch football. I follow some championships, it can be for Germany, or for Spain, for France. I really take my time. I look, I really look. Since I’m a fan of Dortmund, I like to follow the games of Dortmund. I follow the TV to hear if my team has won Dortmund or if they have played a draw or if they have lost. If she lost, then the whole day is spoiled. If Dortmund lost, then I really can’t sleep anymore. That’s my Saturday. I spend Sunday like this: I get up in the morning, I bathe, I eat something. At 8 o’clock I go to the church in Essen, at 14 o’clock the service is over, I go out, if I have to meet a friend, then I will meet him, if not then I go to our office at “Bosangani”. I meet the President [Chairman] and other people. We share our ideas, what everyone has, he shares with the others. We talk when I’m done, I go straight home because I have to sleep early, prepare myself because I have to go to work on Monday. That’s how I spend my weekend.

[i] We talked a lot, but we still want to know something about the family that stayed in Africa. How do you maintain contact with the family?

[r] My family stayed in Africa, they’re fine. I’m just worried because I lost my father when I was away. He died because he was worried about my cause, about what happened to me in the country. How I [ran away] , how I left the country, how I was searched for, how I left the country, my father didn’t know that. Whether I was arrested or what, he didn’t know. Since he was very old, he was 95 years old, he became ill with this worry, then he died. To this day I suffer greatly from it. He died because of me. But my mother was still alive, the other sister [was?] still there, a brother disappeared. We don’t know where he went. Whether he was killed, whether he died. In any case, we don’t know where he went. But the mother is alive, she is sick because of the thing we had. The sister [sisters?] are there. There are contacts, we talk on the phone, we ask about health. They inform us about the development of our mother’s disease. That’s how it works. My two children, they are very well, they go to school, God helps them. In any case, if I have to say, […] If I have to say it generally, then they are very good. My concern is that our brother, who has disappeared until today, because of the thing we had. It has to do with politics, this concern remains in our hearts until today. We didn’t grieve because we didn’t see the body, we don’t know what happened to it at all. Concern has remained in our hearts to this day.

[i] Do you have a souvenir, an object that reminds you of your country, Congo, or the city of Kinshasa? Do you have anything to remember?

[r] As a souvenir of how I left the country, I really had no way of bringing anything that could serve as a souvenir. I had just left the country. Without anything. I don’t have a souvenir. What if I’m at home that can remind me of my country. I don’t have a single souvenir.

[i] Thank you very much, we are now talking a little about your life here in Germany. Have you got new friends here? Since you left the Congo, you left your friends, you left your family, you came to another country. Have you had the opportunity here to make new friends or new contacts? Be it with Kongelesen or with Africans or with Germans? Or is he hard to get in touch with?

[r] In the beginning it was difficult because in Kierspe, where I am, I am the only Congolese. There is no other Congolese. It was hard for me. I’m new to a city and I’m the only Congolese. There is no other Congolese. There are no Congolese in the surrounding cities either. So it was very difficult for me. I came into an environment, and unfortunately I am only alone. I really didn’t have any friends, but when I went out I had met an Angolan in another city, Lüdenscheid. We had made ourselves known, he had shown me other Congolese in Lüdenscheid, he had brought me to them and we met. So I could make contacts with Congolese people. When I am at home and have nothing to do, I go there, we meet, we talk, I spend my day there and in the evening I come back. I was often on the road, then I got friends in Bochum, in Essen, in Duisburg. Today I have friends everywhere. Really, I have friends everywhere, in Cologne, Leverkusen, Aachen, Hagen, I can say I have friends everywhere, many who call me, we talk, talk about health. If there is a celebration, then we meet there, we stay together until tomorrow morning, then I go home, they also go to their apartment. I have a lot of relationships now.

[i] Apart from friends, do you also have contacts with organizations, either from Congolese, or from Africans or also from Germans?

[r] So far I have no contact with German organizations except with the association of the women who help us there in Kierspe. Otherwise I have contact with our association Bosangani. I go there, we gather there. Our association helped me a lot, in the beginning I had participated in the course there, because I was not allowed to go to school in Kierspe. As I said at the beginning. I was there for a year and a half without going to school. During that time I went to Bosangani to learn the language. There I had learned some basics, how: I, I am, I have […] I learned that there, thanks to our association Bosangani. I went there, I learned something. God help the Bosangani Association.

[i] Let’s talk about the German language. How do you find the German language compared to French, the language they speak?

[r] I find the German language really difficult, it is really difficult in comparison with French. But the German language is really difficult. It is really difficult.

[i] Nevertheless, you rightly come with the language at work, you speak [it?] to your German friends, can you also express yourself so that people understand you?

[r] Yes, I can get along with the language, I speak a little. Although the person can’t understand everything, they will understand the subject. Even if I talk a lot, he can’t understand everything. But the main idea, what I want to say to him, he will understand. But the language is difficult. The pronunciation is different. The debate is difficult. It is very difficult. Above all, the application is on: in, im, the, accusative that confuses me. At school, where I was, there I had a colleague from Syria, he had left school because of this thing. When he came he had always said: “[name] , the, the, the, the, the, accusative, […] he had not understood that. Then he had said that he would not come to school anymore. He further said that he had done everything, but he could not understand it. He wouldn’t come anymore. Then he had left school. But it’s good to know the language, it becomes interesting to speak. The language sounds good, I like it very much. I really like that.

[i] How did you get to Germany, did you get the opportunity to do an education other than the language?

[r] Yes, I had the opportunity to get an education in plastics, in the making of bags, in all things made of plastic. I had the opportunity to learn that for three months. That helped me. At the moment I know machines that make these things. Making things out of plastic. Really, I know them. So I am also able to disassemble the machine. I can disassemble and assemble it. So I know the materials from which a plastic bag is made. I know them. They are called […] , they are called granules. That’s the material. In this granulate there are different modules inside, I can say that “Pepe” [?] is inside, polyamide is also inside. So this thing is the solution to make plastic. During the training I learned such things.

[i] You said that you work now. Can you tell us about your work? So that we can get an idea about your work. How long have you lived in Germany?

[r] Now I’ve been in Germany for four years. At work I have a contract for one year. When the contract came to an end I stayed at home. I’m not working now, I’m waiting for another job, if they find it I’ll keep working. Where I have worked, I have worked in the mechanical field. We were responsible for the repair of machines. I worked there for seven months. Then I was sent to Lage, I went there to check the granulate, the materials I mentioned here, I checked them. Really, I could control everything. I took them and put them in the machines. You shouldn’t make a mistake. You shouldn’t confuse pepe and polyamide. Otherwise, if you put polyamide in the machine instead of Pepe, it becomes a disaster. You have to be careful, you have to know that this material is put into this machine, the other into the machine in charge. I have worked there for five months, I am in charge of this area, I really am in charge of this area. Except in this area, I worked in another department, where the remnants of all the things produced there, plastic, containers and other things, all these remnants are brought to me, I then have to sort them, put each particular plastic in an appropriate box. Plastic of polyamide to Katon of polyamide, plastic of propypropilin to Katon of propypropilin. I know a little bit about this thing. I know this thing, that’s why I would like to work in this field again, the packaging. I would be very pleased if I could continue here. I would also like, if the possibility is given, that I can learn still further in another training, even for one year. I would be very happy about that. I am looking for people who can help me. I am looking for organizations that can help me, so that I can still learn things, that can be a year, because the training I did lasted only three months. At work I learned even more. But now I still want to improve myself, that requires a further education, even for one year, even for another year. Therefore I speak to you, the authorities of the country, if you can help me to visit a school that can allow me to study for a year in the field of packaging. That would help me a lot, I really need this training. I would like to continue my education in this field. I really want to learn more in the field of granulates. If you can help me, it will do me good.

[i] Have you already talked to the employment office in your city about this to explain the project to you so that you can see if they can help you find training in this area?

[r] So I was there, I talked to them. They told me that it’s not possible for me to get an education because my age is already advanced. That’s why it won’t be possible to do an apprenticeship. They didn’t say anything more about training, they told me to look for a job. I have said that I can look for a job, it is good, but it would be good if I could deepen my knowledge further with an education, even for only one year. That will help me a lot if [?] I was at work where I was, if [when] they told me that I had to take a break because they got a person, a German, who was doing an apprenticeship. He replaced me, he replaced me, that’s how it is. That’s why the boss said that if it was possible, I should do a further education, or an education for one year. And when I return there, he says he will hire me. That is why I am asking you, if it were possible, to help me so that I can do another year of training in this area.

[i] Can you complete it yourself, what is your future plan? You said a few things during the interview, but now we want to know what you plan for your future?

[r] My plan for the future is the following: I really want to learn first, that’s my priority, I really want to learn in the field I’ve already worked in. I want a year’s training, even if it’s only for one year. That will help me. If I know this very well, it will help me at work. I will do the work better, I want to speak the language very well, I want to know the laws of this country well what they say. The person who comes new to this country and wants to stay here, how can he live? I want to know these laws very well, that’s how it is. My concern is that I can also help with the NGO [?] , that I can help in associations, organisations that are in Germany, that I can also help there. I would also like to participate in the support. I would like to help. There really are my worries, but what is really a priority at the moment is further education, be it only one year in my prayer. I want to do one more year of training. That would do me good, it would broaden my knowledge. With the knowledge I have, if I learn another year, then I will get even more knowledge. That will only be a gain for the Germans, for this country, because where I will work, I will contribute something. That could be, that some people who will come new, that I can also educate them further, with the materials that I already have in my head. That’s how it is.

[i] They have stopped working. Are you unemployed now or what are you doing?

[r] Now I’m unemployed, I’m not working, I’m at home.

[i] How long did you work?

[r] I worked for a year.

[i] Do you get unemployment benefit, not the money from the job centre, but unemployment benefit?

[r] Now I don’t get any money yet, but I’ve already submitted the application, but they haven’t paid yet.

[i] Now you can ask for training at the employment office, if you’re unemployed the state can give you the opportunity to get training. When did you ask for training, now or when you were still working?

[r] I was already there, I talked to my supervisor and I told him that. But he just told me that he didn’t see [?] do anything. As I said at the beginning, the people who are favored here are different. It’s the Syrians, Iraqis, Somalis, people from Eritrea. We are not favoured. He has not seen what he can do for me. He told me to look for work. I told him that he could also look for work for me. He replies that he has no time for it. I have to look for work. That’s how it is. That’s why I really regret it. I am very sorry.

[i] I think I’m done with the questions. So I give you a few minutes to say what you have to say, about home, the situation there, how you got here, how the situation is today.

[r] If I can make a collective version, I have left my home because of political problems. I left the country, then I came here in Germany. In the beginning it was a bit difficult. Since I was new, because I found a different culture here. So I found many things I didn’t know. It was hard to adapt. Then I was assigned to Kierspe. At first I was disappointed to go to Kierspe. Since I noticed that the city was small. Where I had slept, it was bad for me. The toilet was dirty, all the things I found there were not good. I was not satisfied with it. What also disturbed me was that I wanted to learn, but I was told that I was not allowed to learn. I was not allowed to lenen. I stayed a year and a half without learning. That caused me a delay [delay] because I wanted to learn fast. That really gave me a delay. That hurt me a lot. But do I have the opportunity to do an education […] . I even forgot to say something, thanks to our association “Bosangani”, the president [chairman] had been looking for a school for me, another school [than the one] I attended. This was found by our president [board] Massakidi of the association Bosangani. He called there, he was looking for contacts with the people from the job centre. With these contacts I was given the place where I did the training. With this training I was able to get the job. The work also helped me a little, because I now paid for the apartment on my own, electricity, water, gas, everything I pay myself. WLAN, too, I pay for that myself. I pay [paid?] it myself because I work [worked?] . Now I have no more work, I don’t know how I can continue to pay for it. I really don’t know. I really don’t know. It’s a little hard for me now. But I ask you to help me so that I can continue my education. That will do me a lot of good. I know that you, the Germans, like people who want to learn. You like people who want to integrate. The people who need integration, I am one of them, I really want to integrate, give me this opportunity to do an apprenticeship for one year, even for three months. No matter what I get, I am ready to do the training. In general I am good up to now, we live well together with Germans, we have a good time, we meet if it is possible, we meet at the music place, we meet in the park, we talk there. We have fun together, we call each other by telephone, in any case our relationship is good. In my city Kierspe all Germans who have contact with me like me very much. Also the Turks, we are all there, all people are there, we live in good relationship. Since our city is small, we all know each other. Really we all know each other, in our little town. These are a few sentences I wanted to say at the end.

[i] Thank you very much for your availability and good luck for the future and for your work. The messages that you have sent will be received and I hope that these messages will be taken into account.

[r] Thank you very much for this opportunity and for the interview. I thank I thank our President Massakidi, I thank the people of the group of our association “Bosangani”, I thank all who come there, all nationalities. To all who gather with us, I greet all. The authorities of Bochum, thank you very much. They would not forget my case that I am looking for an education, I can also do that in Bochum. I am ready, I will do that. Thank you very much. To all the authorities of all Germany, I thank you very much for everything they do for the people who come. For the migrants, thank you very much. I thank all Germans. I greet you, many greetings wherever you are. God should protect the country of Germany. God should protect all authorities in Germany. I also thank the authorities of my city Kierspe very much, because they fought a lot for me. I thank you very much and I say goodbye to you.