SU_B_18

[i] Hello Mr. [name], I thank you, that you took your time, to our participate in the project. The project is called “Specially Unknown” from the European Community. This is a project which one in the city Bochum is carried out, from the Hannover Zeche Museum. I ask you, if you can introduce yourself first, so that the people who will follow you know who you are dealing with?
[r] Thank you very much, my name is [name], I come from the Democratic Republic Congo, I am married, I am the father of four children and I live in Germany. This is what I can say about myself up to this point. I am ready to answer, everyone Questions I am asked.
[i] Thank you very much, They come from the Democratic Republic of Congo, You were born there, We would like to hear about your childhood in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
[r] I don’t have [had?] those Opportunity to say [tell?]. The Congo is big. I’m in the province of Kasai Occidental born, specifically in the city of Kananga, Kananga is the capital from the Luluaburg region. I’m on the 15th. Born November 1963. I have all the time lived in my country. For information: The Kong has two Kasai, Kasai Oriental [East Kasai] and Kasai Occidental [West Kasai]. I am from Kasai Occidental, that’s in my mother’s province. My father is originally from Kasai Oriental. After living in Kananga for some time, I was with mine mother and my father to Mbuji Mayi [moved], where I had the opportunity to go to school. I attended primary and secondary school there. When I finished school, I was in Kinshasa, which is the political capital of the Congo.
[i] Thank you very much! Let’s go back to Kasai. Like you just said, are you in the province […], born in the city of Kananga. What was your childhood like? Let’s say your childhood before school. Remember Events or contacts or friends from your childhood?
[r] Yes, sure, I had a lot of friends, I had a good one Friend I knew got very used to his name was Muamba. I had known other friends, one was called Tshibangu, I had known too. There were many. I had lived my childhood in the African rhythm, lived in society. I had many acquaintances many young people my age, who were at school with me. We were in elementary school together, I had friends of mine Districts with whom we played football together. They are many. The list is very long, if I have to name everyone.
[i] Thank you very much! Except the friends, they only talked about the friends, but when you were young, you also had the family. They had brothers and sisters, cousins, Mother, father. Don’t you have any childhood memories to tell? about your own family?
[r] A good one question, my mother, I speak first of Kananga, where I with […] where I was born. My mother is her fourth in a family of six people. There was a big brother, a big sister, two big brothers, a big sister, and then a little brother. I have two cousins on my mother’s side, all my uncles had children. My aunts too, they had children. My uncle, the eldest, he had four sons and five daughters. The second [uncle] had two sons and four daughters. And my aunt also had seven [children], three daughters and four sons. Then comes mine mother, so […] Besides my mother there was also the youngest, there was there too two sons and three daughters.
[i] Thank you very much! Do you also have memories of the primary school they attended in Kananga?
[r] Yes, sure. I had the school called urban Attended Lumumbe School. I was there from the first to fourth grade of elementary school. Then I had left that school, then I [went] to a private school called Anisha, Institut Pilote de Anisha. Anisha is zone or a commune in the region. Then I finished primary school. Then I had started secondary school, let’s say that orientation level, at the Lycee Kuguakele, where I attended the first and second orientation levels. Then I left that school, after that I am to college, that Best known, it was called: Petit College Saint Louis. That will be today called “Bandayi”. I’m there for went to school. After I with the When the orientation level was finished, I went to the big college always called “Saint Louis”, always in Kananga, that’s how it was.
[i] Thank you for all this accuracy. May I ask if Do you still have contacts or memories from your school days to this day? Whether they still have contacts with friends or classmates [have]?
[r] Yes, I have to Example [Contact with?] The child of my director the municipal school, that I mentioned she is in Brussels. I have never forgotten [her]. This mother’s name, the director, Tutu Kapumbu, who loved me very much, because of my smarts at school, so I have Contacts with her to this day because she is still alive. I had hers contact data lost, but through her daughter, whom I met in Brussels, I had get the number. I called the director directly my former director, then I recreated the contacts with her. She had a huge impact on me in my life. Besides this one I also have friends like Muamba, I have […] […] I have there, I know one of my friends, he was […] with me in Kananga and the one at the moment Deputy Commander of Ndjili Airport, the international one Kinshasa airport. I’m with these people [friends?]
[i] Thank you very much! They had left Kananga, to continue your life in which city? Or in which region [province] of your country?
[r] Okay! To Kananga, because it’s really [… ], I don’t know how to say that. At that time it was the same region that had been distributed because of the problems. When the [-?] […] came. So during independence, in the time of independence, there were people from East Kasai, who were forced return to them. There was a war that I can’t explain, between the same people. But this war became politicized. My father had worked, he was a civil servant, he had to go to Mbuji Mayi with the whole family. That means I, my brothers and my mother. When we left we are from Kananga went to Mbuji Mayi, where my father his had continued work.
[i] In Mbuji Mayi, how did you continue your life, what did you do? Because we are talking about you, could you perhaps tell us about your life in Mbuji Mayi?
[r] Yes, when I was in Mbuji Mayi had come, um, I was there Mbuji Mayi remained, also for many years. Um, when I came, because I after that end of my school, so let’s say this, when I started secondary school [Petit College] was finished, I went to another secondary school called “Grand College”. I didn’t have the opportunity to get my Abitur there. Um […] For completing secondary school to get the Abitur. When I came to Mbuji Mayi, I continued to go to school to get my high school diploma. When I graduated from high school, I was allowed to go to university. When I finished, I had my high school diploma in Mbuji get Mayi. That was at the Tshiboyi Institute. When I got this “Diplome d’État” [Abitur], or bachelor’s degree, as the others call it, I was forced to do community service close. If you have the diploma had received [Abitur] during this time, in the time of President Mobutu, you had to Do community service. I had to work for two years before I got permission to continue studying. When I left to work, I had the function of teacher, I was the third person after that Director and after his deputy. I had replaced the teachers, who were sick, for example. I had taught when a teacher was absent. After that I had taught, I had taught. I taught in [acoustically not clear] [?] In middle school, for two years. Then, after two years, I was gone Mbuji Mayi went to Kinshasa to put the rest of mine there to continue life.
[i] You have secondary school towards Pedagogy or in another direction? And what was your motivation for this? High school to follow in this direction?
[r] That wasn’t my intention at first. Let’s say, because wherever I was, that’s where I started […] I had passed the orientation level, that was […] that was the school system from our country. If you take the second Once you have finished the orientation level, you could be oriented, in a certain direction. Pedagogy could do that, Economics, humanities and so on. So I was forced the direction to do spiritual science. I had the direction Humanities, from 3rd to 4th secondary school [Secondary?]. When I left there [school] to go to Mbuji Mayi because people said that the teachers did not have a good life, and […] I had the ambition […] When I started this, I really wanted to become a journalist. But when I came, with the discouragement of the people who said [that], I was forced to To make pedagogy direction. Um, pedagogy, option Physicopedagogy. So with that, I had learned the four methods: general pedagogy, the genetics [development? ], er, the genetics, the general methodology, the particular methodology. It was in this institution, let’s say exactly in the institute of Tshibulu.
[i] Have you completed your studies? Secondary school worked for your country?
[r] Yes! After I graduated I was forced to do two years to do community service, before I was allowed to graduate from college. When I did that, I was a civil servant, I got my salary. Before I was allowed to do anything. When I came to Kinshasa I had already [experienced] the taste of money, so I was forced to continue my studies, because I already had permission. And I hadn’t just studied. During my studies I also worked as a teacher, which is called [-?] […]. I went to university and I had also taught at school. I was “Cumular”, I had cumulated the two. So during this time, I served my country. I was enrolled at the “Institute of Scientific Research” [Scientific Research Institute]. I could as a youngster Man be a civil servant. If the archive is still there, you can see my number through my name, er, how do you say it, I even forgot [that], the registration number. My matriculation number.
[i] At what stage and in which Did you work as a teacher?
[r] Um, I am, so first I was as Trained primary school teachers. Once you got your high school diploma, it [did you need that?] to be a teacher, Specialist in Education. That means in all three stages: elementary level, Intermediate and senior level. I had exercised that. Now, um, when I came to Kinshasa, I had something to do with the direction of economics. When I was studying business, I was teaching at the same time. Um, before that I had always taught in a primary school in Kinshsa, the name is school “Ecole Primaire Saint Martin” [Saint Martin Elementary School]. Today it is called “École Primaire Inkisi” [Primary School Inkisi]. I had taught there and then I went to school [college] at the same time, to the university. Then later I changed schools. I then taught at the Lycée Leclerc, that was always in Kinshasa. Afterwards I was there where I had ended [finished?] my career in education in my country before I could further pursue my life adventure.
[i] You said that you first went to Kananga, then to Mbuji Mayi, and finally you came to Kinshasa. If you need to compare the difference between life in these three cities, what can you tell us? The city of Kananga, Mbuji Mayi and Kinshasa, all three are cities of the Democratic Republic of Congo, [everyone is] far away from each other and then, um, I know that Kananga is located in the Kasai region, in Kinshasa is the Mixed population. What can you say if you have one Comparison between these three cities [should do] And always in comparison of your life in these cities?
[r] Um, things change, When I was there, life was very good. Life in Kananga was very good. As in Mbuji Mayi. Let’s say this wasn’t the capital, but […] the metropolis is Kinshasa, where there is a There was a mixture of different cultures. Life in Kananga and Mbuji Mayi was a family life. Because we live with us [we] in the extended family. Life wasn’t as expensive as in Kinshasa. There was life in Kinshasa a little more expensive, but that was always accessible, and […] because things were still good.
[i] They didn’t compare them, in fact they only talked about the city of Kananga. I wanted you to talk about your life in Kinshasa as well as in Kananga. That you have one Make a comparison between your employment in Kanaga and in Kinshasa, or in general.
[r] When I was in Mbuji Mayi and in Kananga, Mbuji Mayi, um, life wasn’t [… ] let’s say first, life was almost the same because the people who worked there, as civil servants, because they got a card. The one “ayant droit” [Authorized] named. As a civil servant, you could use hospital treatment free of charge. Besides, when I left there, I came, it was the same life. When I came to Kinshasa, we still had the same system. We had the card called “ayant droit” and then with another card called “Libre parcours” [free ticket for public transport]. This gave us the opportunity to use all city public transport without paying anything. There was a very big difference because it was in Mbuji There were no city buses in Mayi, but there were in Kinshasa. There were no city buses in Mbuji Mayi and Kananga. There were only private buses, we had the card called “ayant droit”. This enabled us to provide medical care Get treatment for free. But in Kinshasa we had this Map, we also had an option Um […] We had a map, which was called “libre parcours”. “Libre parcours” was a card that allowed all officials Use the city buses for free. There was also a big difference.
[i] When you left Kananga, then Mbuji Mayi, to go to Kinshasa, Did you go alone or with your family members? If yes or no, who did you live with in Kinshasa?
[r] Yes! Like I said that, I didn’t go to Kinshasa with my family, [not with] mine father and my mother. My father had already died [Acoustically inaudible] From Mbuji Mayi I went alone, then there was my uncle, he was the one who also took part in the presidency Republic worked. He was someone’s bodyguard Mobutu [then President of the Congo] It also had, um, her [my?] big one too Brother who lived there [given], but I was alone, with my brothers.
[i] Didn’t have one was homesick, when you bring your family in had left Kananga, or in Mbuji Mayi? Did you also travel to visit them? What were the contacts like? with your family who had stayed in the region when you lived in Kinshasa?
[r] That wasn’t missing, the home guard is one thing, very […] that was always there. So it hurt me at the beginning, and then […] as a man I had to find my way. But when I was gone, I was homesick. Sometimes I had to People who had lived with me [-?] […] and then the question was that I get a new one had to find a relationship […] all of this. These contacts when I went to Mbuji Mayi went back and I was always in the family. Because the people who lived with me back then I was there with some people who stayed there and they also worked. My return revealed something different Mood, a [different] mood the family, [other than that] which I didn’t [?] find in Kinshsa.
[i] Then you were in Kinshasa. Did you go to university or did you just teach? Can you say something about her Talk about living in Kinshasa? Also about your student and professional life?
[r] That’s why I said when I came, I was cumulative. I worked and studied at the same time.
[i] At the university.
[r] At the university.
[i] In which profession and at which university? Can you about your talk about life as a student, that I very important because that is a life, that shapes our lives in general, Above all, student life is different Life compared to school life. This also determines our professional careers. Can you a little about your life as Student [speak]?
[r] When I arrived in Kinshasa, I had taught, and then I had at university [-?] […] done, […], let’s say economics. I had done economics, I had done accounting. I had that on that made university, I had until Degree studied. I have my diploma from the university as a graduate, as a diploma in economics and financial scientists.
[i] Thank you for the accuracy. The university in Kinshasa was the university called Nikin, the former University of Lovanium. And then you were there, You have that there Studies completed. After your studies, what did you do?
[r] I always wanted mine Continue studying so I could get my license to go from there. But with the situation getting worse, I was forced to leave the country so that I can start adventures in other countries in search of the rest of my life.
[i] Okay, as you said yourself that you wanted to go yourself, because we are particularly interested in the lives of people who have left their country. Can you tell us how it came about that you left your country?
[r] Yes! Because life was getting harder and harder day by day. With the government at the time, life became increasingly difficult. I always had the idea if I left the country, then I could do something else somewhere else, and life would get better. I had decided in the face of dictatorship, what I already mentioned, Universities were closed more often. So I had seen if I had stayed there, then I wouldn’t have had the opportunity to do something better. From there I went to [-?] […] [Brazzaville]. I was forced to leave Kinshasa, the capital of my country, where I lived to live somewhere else. I had gone from Kinshasa to Brazzaville.
[i] They talk about the Dictatorship, it’s so common, can you explain it a bit, what was the political one? Location exactly? What was the political one? Situation in the Congo during the time she was there as lived as an adult? That is, according to yours Secondary school attendance?
[r] First the coming of [-?] […], because it’s with our old president there was no multi-party system. We had, um, a single political party, It was called MPR [Mouvement Populaire de la Revolution]. That was the only party a single boss and as they said, a single country. When I was there, as I just said, the universities were closed, because there was only one party, who made the decisions. She was the master of all. So, you couldn’t say “no” to them. This means that this party was the only master for everyone. Nobody could contradict that, what she had decided. So all this for that life of a person, with his deprived freedom, without freedom of expression, that didn’t exist. So I was afraid that I might split up, [?] So that […] and if I split up [?] And it would be my death, life was very strange, like up to now. So that goes on.
[i] They always talk about him, who is this “him”. I ask because we are in Germany, in a democratic country and then [we?] [-? ] are not in Congo. Are you afraid? He has a name and you always talk about “him”. Can’t you tell us who exactly this dictator is? And could you tell us something about him, about him? Explain life? What happened during his power? We want to know exactly what you are talking about.
[r] When I say “him” Talk about it, it’s not quite good. I can call him by his name, his name was Mobutu, Joseph Desire Mobutu, before he says his name through the Ideology “Recours à l’Autenticité” changed. Then his name was then Mobutu Sese Seko.
[i] What was his power, if you can sum it up in a few words?
[r] At the beginning it wasn’t bad, he had the power in age 32 years. And then when he was [still] young, defies the difficulties people hadn’t fully felt this. Life was pleasant or even very pleasant. Little by little, [the longer he] stayed there, um, [the] worse he got the liver, getting worse. That means it became more and more difficult with the dictatorship. That was a person like I said, with his only party, you couldn’t say no to Mobutu. Even members of his government, for example a minister, were not allowed to say no. So we had lived under the total dictatorship system. Very strong. [It’s] hard to compare. So that was a man very difficult, so he was a good [?] [real?] dictator.
[i] Thank you very much! I am also Congolese, Let me ask you a question. Remember the date of the 14th October 2018? I ask because today is October 14, 2018.
[r] October 14th 2018, today we are on the 14th, October 14, 2018. Reminds me of […] As you just asked me, October 14, 2018 reminds me of the former’s birthday President Mobutu.
[i] Thank you very much! Let’s say that you talked about [-?] […]. I asked you who Mobutu was, what his regime was. Then you left the country. to leave your country, what was it that made you leave your country? Did you have a personal one? Had a problem, right? Did you simply decide to leave the country? And like you said before, to go somewhere else for adventure.
[r] I didn’t want to, um, if everything was good, then I wouldn’t have left my country. But because of the dictatorial regime we are in. .. Congo had had, there was no free opinion within the population. I was forced to leave. Also, the closure of universities and many other things. I couldn’t stay any longer because when you were finished […] For example, as the When the university was closed, you could go back. There was a time when all students were sent back to their original province. Then […] With this system, [?] doesn’t show that if I had stayed, I could continue [studying] and achieve my dream goals. So I was forced to leave.
[i] For what reasons were Universities closed? Was it just for fun or existed Events that led to this? How can you justify something like that?
[r] Because of the Demonstrations by students, through protests by students. The Students protested against the regime. They were against them Mobutu’s rule resisted. As punishment, the students were sent back to their respective regions. So that no one could hear from them anymore, they were sent back to their villages.
[i] Were you like that too? Sent your village back? Or had you not had such misfortune?
[r] No, I was not sent back.
[i] You had left your country to go somewhere? You can contact us about Talk about your adventure? So we can understand a little bit what it was like.
[r] I initially looked for the country, that in the next is close to me, that is, I left Kinshasa, to cross the river. That means, um, [I’m] first after Congo Brazzaville [gone].
[i] They were in Congo Brazzaville, what were you doing there? How long are Did you stay there? How did they live there and in which city?
[r] I had that had the opportunity to visit three major cities. First I was in Brazzaville, I lived in Wenze [Commune of Brazzaville]. And I also worked there as a teacher. And then I left there to go to the town of Pointe Noire. Afterwards, from Pointe Noire I went back to Brazzaville. I still had [-?] […] visited. Let’s say [there were] four cities that I had visited. I visited the province, erm […] in the north, “la Sanga”. I had “la Sanga”, so we say the province of “Weso” [Ouesso]. After Weso I returned to Brazzaville and then I still had the city Visited Lobomo, now called Dolesie. Then I returned to Kinshasa. And in Padon in Brazzaville to continue my journey.
[i] You talk about “visiting”, have you made or had visits there? lived there? [Did they stay there?] for a certain time and [have] professional jobs Activities carried out in the cities of Congo Brazzaville?
[r] I had in first Brazzaville worked, I didn’t visit anyone, but I lived there. I lived in Brazzaville, exactly in the municipality of Wenze, I taught at the “Lycée Liberation”. After that I had to go Ouesso [Weso], where I found an opportunity to work as a paying agent in a Lebanese company. I had said that [acoustically not clear] [-?]. From there I had left with the same people to go to Pointe Noire.
[i] Thank you for all this accuracy. You are Congolese from Kinshasa. You left Congo and you are going to Brazzaville gone where you some had lived for a long time. If you were asked how long you stayed in Congo Brazzaville and what was the reception you received in this neighboring country?
[r] A person can only feel better with him [at home?]. Although there is not much difference, between Congo Brazzaville and Congo Kinshasa. Um, I wasn’t feeling quite well. A person can only feel better with him [at home]. The reception was sufficient, um.
[i] Okay. How long are You in Congo Brazzaville stayed and when had You leave Congo Brazzaville, and to go where? I was in for three and a half years Congo Brazzaville stayed, I worked there. Then, from there, um, I was from Brazzaville to Yaunde, to Cameroon. So, I was there basically three and a half years stayed. In these three years I was also now and then Returned to my country to Kinshasa. I had this during the holiday season Opportunity to travel to my homeland. From Kinshasa I was able to take an Air Afrique plane to Cameroon.
[i] You are in Cameroon, where you had […] What you made in Cameroon?
[r] [He laughs] Like I said, I always, um, planned to study. I arrived in Cameroon, I got myself enrolled, in the University of Ngouakele, to attend the Faculty of Law and Economics. So I continued studying there. I was in church by the denomination Baptized Adventist [Christian revival movement]. There I had the opportunity to be supported, through the church. That means, the church sent us to live in the Church printing press in Yaunde or even […] there was the founding of College Adventist of Yaunde. And as the university of the Adventists was founded and the college of Adventists of Yaunde, then I left the print shop to work in college. I had taught Yaunde Adventist in college. So that was the same institution, run by the same boss. Um, so I was at school and after school […] I had accumulated [combined both], I had cumulated the two, the university and work. I worked to make mine to cover needs. And then so, I first worked in the print shop of the Adventist Church, then to college Adventists in Central Africa.
[i] They were in Congo Brazzaville, a French-speaking country, It will be safe there too Lingala spoken, a language spoken in Congo Kinshasa is also spoken. Then you were in Cameroon arrived. Cameroon is a French speaking country, but they are a different people. How did you the difference between the inhabitants of Cameroon and Congo Brazzaville [perceived]?
[r] Africa remains, we have almost the same mentality. Nevertheless, this is a bilingual country, that means you speak English and French. Before the dictatorship, before the suffering and the It was a very beautiful country.
[i] That was a very nice one Country, what does that mean? That is, is there a big difference between life there and life in Congo Kinshasa and in Congo Brazzaville? Or was there?
[r] Yes! Congo Kinshasa, Congo Brazzaville. Congo Kinshasa didn’t have that yet achieve self-sufficiency with food, but Cameroon had achieved food self-sufficiency since 1984. Since 1984. I found that people who had worked in education, that many didn’t have a car, but they did as teachers we had worked. There were schools that… denominational school, private schools and state schools. People working in the state schools had worked, had received less wages in Kinshasa compared to those in Private schools had worked. In Brazzaville the people who… had worked in state schools, better paid than the people in Kinshasa. But in Cameroon became the people who worked in the public schools better paid than that People in private schools. I had friends who taught in primary school and who had a car. Whereas when I was there it was hard to find someone who had a car was the teacher. The food was enough no suffering was felt, not as it exists today. There was a big difference.
[i] How long did you stay in Cameroon? Could you have one Get a university degree in Cameroon?
[r] Before I left my country I already had a university degree. I still had [-?] in Cameroon, and I stayed there almost the rest of my life. Because I’m from [to? From?] Cameroon in 1984, 1982 had gone. I had a lot of mine Spent his life in Cameroon.
[i] How was the reception? Adventist Church in Cameroon?
[r] This is a very good church. In Cameroon, because they had done everything so that […] There was no […] You could be someone who had come from another country, I had spoken about the first Adventist. The person, who was the director of this printing company, a Nigerian. The Adventist system, because the nominations are not made by the people of the country, but the nominations are made by the Association of Adventist Churches [carried out]. No, the division of the Adventist Church. We have five in the world, and [for] all countries the division is: Africa, Indian Sea, which are based in Ivory Coast. The accountant from the Association of the Adventist Church in Yaunde, in Douala, was someone from Brazzaville. So why did you have college Called Advantist in Central Africa? Because there was a mix from all the people there Students were foreigners. The treasurer of this College was Central African. So that’s where they found them Congolese, we were two who had taught in this college. There were also some Congolese who had taught in primary school, always in an Advantist school, because it was a school complex. Then there were Nigerians, Ghaneses and Cameroonians. We were mixed, that’s why it was called the “College Advantist in Central Africa. The college should be in Rwanda were founded, but they had it in Cameroon founded. There were many people of different nationalities there. So the Advantist Church is a church that I love very much. I don’t love them Church, but I love the system because we all pray and we all believe in God. I think she’s very good. They are very good. They are almost the same in Africa as they are here in Germany, where we are.
[i] After Cameroon, did you go to other countries or did you come directly here? Germany came?
[r] No, in Cameroon, when I left Cameroon, I basically wanted to go to the USA. That didn’t work, so I was forced Leaving Cameroon and going through Nigeria. In Nigeria I had taken my flight, my flight um, so for [-?] [acoustically not clear], for [too quiet], to go to Senegal. I took my flight in Senegal in the airport of Yos [Acoustic indistinct] with the Condor airline to come to Germany. [i Okay, we are in Germany, it’s a cold one country when it comes to climate. There is a big one Difference between the climate from Africa and the climate of Germany. In Africa we have two different climates, There are four climates here. How do you like the climate of Germany in general? There is the cold weather that hits [?] when you come new, before you start another occupation.
[r] In Africa we only have two climates or two seasons, there is the dry season and the rainy season. It’s warm in Africa and it’s cold here. That’s a big difference. Because of the cold […] From the warmth to the cold it is but a big difference. That’s why when we came I had the impression that this cold right down to the mentality of the People also got in. The people also seemed very cold. So there was a very big difference.
[i] How cold? People are or were cold? Can you say something about this behavior, which you call “cold”?
[r] People weren’t open.
[i] What does “open” mean to you?
[r] That means people were very conservative.
[i] And now you’re still conservative, right? They were or are they still?
[r] You are still conservative, but with the only difference that Germany is now part of the European Community, so people demonstrate they fight against this cold mentality. Against the mentality of the people, so that people are hospitable. So they are currently fighting and That’s already starting to change. This even has Let’s say that has already changed by 50%.
[i] When please You arrived and in which city?
[r] I had my flight from the airport of Yos, that was a Wednesday to get to the airport to land in Frankfurt, exactly in Frankfurt.
[i] What year was it?
[r] In the year 19 […], er, 1992.
[i] You are in Frankfurt, how did that happen? Things developed up to You arrived in the city of Bochum, where we are now?
[r] Yes! As I after Frankfurt had come, Like I said, I didn’t really want to come here. I wanted to go to that United States, there were coincidences that ensured that that I had stayed, that I no longer made my trip to the United States States could carry out. I, um, first presented myself to apply for asylum. I submitted my asylum application at Frankfurt Airport. I had to stay there for three days to wait for an interpreter. Because the people here don’t Speaking French, it is a country where the [People] speak German. I stayed at the airport for three days, so that an interpreter could be found. Then one was found, he was Ghanese and he spoke a little French. I was surprised that the person asked me to know he asked: “Ah! You’re the person.” I don’t understand you, because the Congolese, […] Congo is a country where Lingala, Speaks French, Tshiluba and Kikongo and you are looking for a French interpreter. That’s why people became doubtful that you were Congolese. Even the German administration “who was at the airport.” I explained to people that the population in Congo is big and you find a lot of people, especially those who were at school, who speak French. Then they allowed me to enter the country and then to stay. I stayed in Frankfurt, not far away anyway the city of Limburg. But not in Frankfurt, the city of Frankfurt had sent me to [another] city, er, a small village not far from Limburg. They asked me [after the? ] difference [… ] how was mine Church there, so I was deeply affected by the behavior of the people from my church. Where I was, Well, I was in Limburg, which was a big city near a small village where I lived, which was called Gern. In Gern, well, we were in a small village. I had no option there, there was none Church, there was nothing. There was only one church, a New Apostolic Church. They had every one of us Picked up on Sunday so we could get to her could attend church service. Whenever we went to their church, I explained to them that I was a member of the Adventist Church. I thank my sister from the New Apostolic Church, who picked me up in the car, and had promised me if they were members of the New Apostolic Church [Adventists?] she would let me know. But we are Christians and we believe in the same God. Instead of staying at home, you could come with us to learn something from God. When they had the opportunity to meet a member of my church, um, he had given [them] my address. Then I’ll be with him until after Derne, where I had lived, and from there […] He had moved me from there somewhere else, I went to live in [-?] […], he had given me an apartment. He had also lived in Cameroon, he was a dentist, he had the opportunity to buy a large apartment. He gave me one Apartment given. I’m three [at] him Stayed for weeks. My concern was always finding my church. From his home we drove a distance of, I don’t know how many kilometers, the town is called… I’ve already forgotten the name. We drove in Direction Frankfurt. So one day there was the assignment. I had informed him that I had to go to Bochum. We’re over Miner [?] driven, miner, miner.
[i] Bergkamen?
[r] Bergkamen, Bergkamen, I was in Bergkamen for, another week, I think. After a week I found myself in Bochum. We took the bus, then we were in Bochum dropped off. In Bochum I wasn’t far from my church, which is on the Königsallee 133 is located. I can say that God is with me, he had heard my prayer, because I had always prayed to be near my church.
[i] You had yours Found the church again, what was the reception like? Bochum Adventist Church?
[r] We have the same, the same doctrine, almost the same mentality. Created by God. Um, they always had the same mentality, she had spoiled me a lot, [I was like a? ] Mama’s boy [spoiled child? ], they had taken a lot of care of [me]. They had achieved that I could change a lot of things. [?] They had that for me School paid. [He laughs] So they had replaced my family.
[i] Thank you very much! They had [-?] […] [Africa? Cameroon?]. They had arrived in Frankfurt. They had left Africa. Africa had other cultures, Europe certainly did too. What can you say about the difference between the two cultures? African culture and European culture.
[r] In Africa we have the system, um, I can say that Africa is a hospitable continent. We don’t have one Individualism. There is extreme individualism here. Although we were well received, but there is a big difference. In Africa we speak of the extended family while here there is a strong individualism. That’s a big difference.
[i] You are in Bochum as Refugee arrived safely. What can you say about the reception of the city Bochum say to yourself?
[r] I can’t say the [reception] was bad, because I was accommodated first, for a certain time. Before I mean Changed apartment. I had a private one get an apartment, I was there. The reception was good, because they accepted me so that I could enter the city and live my life.
[i] How did you manage it, socially and psychologically Distance between Bochum and your country Congo?
[r] Despite everything I can have here I miss my country. Um, I miss that a lot, special if I think about memories from childhood, that I in the regions, had experienced in my regions of Kasi. And in Kinshasa. Um, here I was […] I was forced to look for new friends. The friends will not be replaced for this. That didn’t replace my life back then, that I live here until now, I think [I?].
[i] People say in Germany, that blacks in Germany had many difficulties compared to other nationalities. Because the Germans had not recognized [recognized?] colonization, or you had recognized the colonization, but they had lost the colonies. And all of this for comparison with other countries, like France, Belgium, Great Britain […] How did you have this one? Reception perceived? [The reception] of yours person as a black African for comparison with other nationalities?
[r] In my time there was [the following:] Even when we were looking for work, they said that a job would go to the Germans first. After the Germans came the Europeans. After the Europeans came the remaining nationalities, including the Indians, the others, and the blacks were last. That may be true.
[i] And now there is already a change regarding such classifications into these different ones Nations or different nationalities?
[r] Not quite, not quite, because I met a lot of people, who are black. When they left, to look for a school, they were told that priority would be given to the Syrians first. They are the ones who do this first had the right to learn the language. And it’s free. But if a black man wants to learn the language, he has to pay for it himself. That is, so that he can take an intensive course.
[i] Have one Message to the authorities? About the manner of behavior, So just like Africans as well as to the people who look after and advise the Africans in the city of Bochum?
[r] In fact, I would ask them such position [Settings? ] to change because there are some things that sometimes the City leaders know nothing. Things that some Hire some civil servants. I ask you to change that. Because every person is a foreigner. It would be important that they change [that], they should accept people as equals.
[i] They are after Germany has come, here is the German Language spoken, a language that is in Congo is not spoken. How did you do that, um to find your way around, and how did it happen today? Relationship with the German language.
[r] She is a second culture for me, in addition to my African one Culture. I could say that, um […] Speaking German is […] A second culture. This helps me a lot, I can do this one day in my home country or somewhere else. This is something very important. Aside from that I first attended the courses I had that took intensive courses, in the adult education center. It was really intense because I wanted to continue my studies. When I finished I was forced to still continue the courses at ASTA. The ASTA [General Student Committee] is an organization of foreign students here. So I was able to learn a little bit of the German language.
[i] It is said that Germany is a state in which the bureaucracy is very strong. When you came here, have you also looked into the Need to confront bureaucracy? How have you been able to move forward? Can you make a comparison between the bureaucracy in Germany and the countries in Africa where you were? Between the bureaucracy in Germany and in the countries in Africa where you have been, that is, starting from Congo Kinshasa to Cameroon?
[r] Africa remains the same, Africa, I would call a hospitable continent, a continent that Foreigners well received. They even live there. There are very many there, in Cameroon, in the Congo, in Brazzaville. The Germans even live there and let’s say, there is no problem at all, when you see […] Let’s say a German, a European, any person, there are foreigners who be welcomed in Africa. But that wasn’t the case here. I can only say that you should have courage. You take the courage you have to work, two to three times. You should show what you are capable of doing in order to move forward to move forward.
[i] What are the formations [further training], that you were able to do in Germany since you came here?
[r] I first learned the German language, that is also an education because I had learned the language. After the language, I also studied a large school in Bochum called Administrative and Business Academy.
[i] Do you have contacts with your Families who remained in Congo?
[r] I have contacts.
[i] Are you also homesick for your country, the Congo?
[r] I don’t miss that [?], it will stay until the end, Even if you give me something, it will stay. My country will always be my country.
[i] What do you like here in the city of Bochum?
[r] First of all, my safety, because when I came, they protected me with everything in them Congo had happened. The continuation after the Mobutu regime, there were people who had taken power. It’s about Kabila’s father, and about Kabila’s son. With Kabila’s son, the situation has become even worse, 100% compared to life even during the Mobutu dictatorship. First is my safety, that is the most important thing, the rest, I can find it on my own. I’m safe here and I had mine get papers, despite all the difficulties. It’s about the courage that I took upon myself, that [too bad, cannot be understood acoustically]. I’m safe, so when I’m sick, is there a treatment I like here. Especially this one. I can get treatment and really under good conditions.
[i] You have lived in the city of Bochum for a long time, Can you tell us how long have you been living here in Germany?
[r] Really, I’m an old Bochum native, they are now over, soon I will Add 26 or 25 [years] together, the time I’ve been in Bochum.
[i] If you have a Message to the Foreigners in general and to the Congolese especially have to give, in relation to the lives of foreigners in Germany, what would be your message?
[r] I will ask you to to be patient, to have courage, to confuse people’s mentality, the German one to be close to the environment, because if they little by little have contacts with Germans, they will learn what may be hidden. The courage and the patience.
[i] If you have someone who coming to Germany today, need some advice, so that he wouldn’t make the mistakes or [acoustically inaudible] Or [so that] he doesn’t have many projects would have. [?] What would you say to him?
[r] I will ask him first to learn the German language, to do the German courses.
[i] Have you had any problems with Experienced racial discrimination here in Germany during the time you lived here?
[r] I had that, that’s why I speak of “having courage”, so I had that, but I had plucked up the courage I plucked up the courage.
[i] What message can give them to the Germans, who still have this idea of have discrimination, who still have many prejudices against other races, special in front of the black race?
[r] I will ask you to to take every person into account how they consider themselves. Because people are on this earth, who are abroad, who are also foreigners, they must think that there are other people […] With the current situation, with the situation, with the current crisis, You can find Germans everywhere, they are in the United States, in the Congo, in Cameroon, in Brazzaville, everywhere in the world. I find these people we see this on TV, these people have a good life somewhere else, they were received by people. They are called to accept people who come to them.
[i] You are the person responsible for an association by Africans in Bochum, they work with Africans and with other organizations, also with the city of Bochum. What can you tell us about your activities, let’s say, about your commitment and your function in this organization, You personally?
[r] I am a responsible person within the organization. In the organization, which was for Africans from the beginning, for the Congolese, but this one now expanded because we serve [people from] all over Africa. I am deputy Chairman of the club, and then we advise all foreigners, all Africans and even people who are not African. You come to us, we also affirmed people who are not African. So I practice in my role, I am […] I accompany you to the authorities, I look after them too. We do […], how can I say we organize […] um, eh we usually do lectures about different countries, Lectures on various Countries we offer German courses, um, Computer science courses [computer courses]. I come to the office every day, to receive people who have problems. To read her letters, also to write letters that they need. In case of difficulties I accompany her so that she can meet lawyers, and so forth.
[i] What motivated you personally? the association with others to found people? What was yours? Motivation, personal, as African and also as a political refugee?
[r] We were called upon to integrate, this is a wind that blows through the whole of Europe, everywhere in Europe there is a demand to be integrated. In order to be integrated, we would have to organize ourselves. Being organized means that things should be structured. That’s why we had this one Association founded in Bochum and we wanted to be able to register it at the court, through the notary. To enable integration, We look after and advise people. And even in the city where I work, with the city’s integration office.
[i] You have too Contacts with others Organizations here in Germany, if it is possible with others Organization in Africa?
[r] Yes! Sure, in Africa are there people who represent us. Here in Germany we have because we are [-?] […] We have contacts with the organizations like AWO [Workers’ Welfare Association], IFAK [Multicultural Children’s and Youth Welfare], DARF [German Africa Ruhr Forum], Planet Africa, um, and many others.
[i] Do you personally have any ideas for the future here in Germany? for your life or Your affiliation in Club in general.
[r] I will continue my work because we have been asked to integrate. First for people’s recognition, who have come into contact with us and also in view of the Services we lead. That’s why people want that we carry on. So if we don’t continue, it’s really like we’re morally killing people. We have an office on Neustraße 3 lies. The house belongs to everyone, this is our headquarters. Any person who If you have any difficulties, if you have a letter, if you have any problems, you can always come here. So we help them, we also help those who don’t come here. Some call to inquire about our services. Some ask for accompaniment, for help with the Looking for an apartment, or someone to accompany you to the employment office. There are our tasks. If I can no longer carry on, then I will become everyone’s suffering foreigners who come here for the first time. This won’t be good.
[i] You live in Bochum-Wattenscheid, What contacts do you have with your neighbors or with others? Residents of Wattenscheid?
[r] I have very good contacts with all my neighbors and with all the residents of Wattenscheid, where I live. I feel good.
[i] Do you like this? City of Wattenscheid, or how to find it you this district?
[r] Yes! I like him.
[i] Well, we are in Bochum-Mitte, your office is also in Bochum-Mitte. Are you welcome here in the city center?
[r] Yes! Yes, if it weren’t for that […] If we weren’t welcome, we wouldn’t have an office in the middle here. The office was given to us. So we are in the middle of the city, with the I don’t see any problem with the population and us. It is good. We are welcome.
[i] Have one Object from your homeland? They came from the Congo. You are Congolese from Congo Kinshasa, do you have an object which Can remind you of your homeland or when you came here? Did you take anything with you? that reminds you of your homeland? [a telephone rings]
[r] Okay, okay, um, I didn’t bring anything from my country, except I don’t have them anymore my old photos, I don’t have it anymore at the moment. But here where we are, I see a lot of things that remind me of my country. There are the drums, we have a drummer group within the Bosangani association. The drum is a musical instrument, typically African. I had always had that with me. Aside from that it’s something that reminds me of Africa.
[i] Now that is Technology well developed. We have many opportunities to [maintain] contact with our families, with our friends in Africa. How are your contacts with your family in Africa now?
[r] I call you by phone, I write [with you] through the Internet, with those who are yours Own computer.
[i] To conclude, What message do you have for the population? People who will listen to you, through this video, through this message, about the life of refugees who are here or who are in Europe, or who are all over the world? People coming out of their countries have fled, to live somewhere else.
[r] I’m turning three Underline points: I urge you to be patient, like I said at the beginning, I also encourage you to do so to be brave, and thirdly, like our name Association “Bosangani”, what “living together” means French [Lingala?] means. So I urge you, all people, who have the opportunity if you have difficulties, come to us, to share these with us. Which is also the problem. Because they say: The Unity makes you strong.
[i] And the people who receiving refugees, the people who have to receive refugees, what message can you give them? Because all these refugees, who are fleeing their countries somewhere else in foreign countries, in the hands of organizations, of governments [to be?]. What message could you give to these governments, to these organizations, receive the refugees?
[r] I would ask you to to be impartial, don’t take race into account. I would also urge you to not to think that […] Generally, when you see a foreigner, you always see suffering. But it’s not because there are people who had left their homeland because of the greatest […] Those who have the biggest problem, politically […] Even if it wasn’t a political problem, This could also be an economic problem, if a person has nothing where they can sleep well, where they can find food, even then you can escape. You can say: I’m going to where I can live better. We have found the war that […] is causing people to suffer. The people are killed People leave their homeland because of them have the opportunity and one comes and one confiscates their city, to take away [the] good from her. And these people are in trouble and they leave their homeland, to go somewhere else. For example, I see the people from Syria, who are there and the war lasted for many years. People die every day in Congo. If all these people no had problems with them, if the countries they come from would be stable, then these people wouldn’t come. So I would demand that those responsible the asylum organizations of the receiving countries, where these people go the meaning of separation to put away first. You should be impartial, be tolerant, be patient. You should understand that every person is called upon to to live in the norm of life.
[i] What message can you to the population of Bochum when it comes to the refugees who are coming now. How should they behave? I only mentioned the population of Bochum, but that could be the Germans and also Africans, the Arabs. How should you? How to behave towards the refugees who are now coming in large numbers?
[r] I will ask them to be patient first, as I said, because when they come, they must first experience the conditions they have found here [-?]. Because they are first lucky to be conceived. They should show that they […] They should respect the material goods that are made available to them. Any laws that apply to them in the country or in the host areas have found should be respected. So they shouldn’t […] You should have the mentality, that they had, change, remember the life of Adjust the host country. The Africans, the Arabs, maybe the Syrians, all this group should adapt, in life what they do in theirs have found host countries.
[i] This is for the people who have recently arrived. But the people that they receive the population from Bochum, who receive the refugees.
[r]I will encourage them to be impartial, as I said, to be patient, to be tolerant, and not really being very aggressive, because the people who come already have psychological problems, , what she while their experienced displacement. You need to know how to deal with it psychology to deal with these people. You have to speak to these people with love but not with aggression, as we often show.
[i]If you do the have opportunity to advise politicians because they Make law. African I mean politicians what could you say to them as a message, in relation to the situation we live in, with many people leaving their homes Have to flee countries to live as refugees somewhere else? What message could you send to authorities, to those responsible from Africa, especially to politicians?
[r]I would encourage them, Since you come here, to see how the people are organized here, I would continue to challenge you… the spirit of To remove individualism, organization in To create land, to create structure on the site so that people could live better with them. Furthermore, they should Giving freedom of speech to people. So that you can understand… Because if someone can express themselves, Can he tell you what he’s thinking inside? If you block him, you punish him. He will be afraid so that he cannot express himself. So they should have theirs change mentality, establish organization, the freedom of expression to the enable the population to
[i] Mr. [name], I have no more questions, if you have a message to give, in relation to the interview we did, in relation to German society, in relation to that of international society, then please can you do that now.
[r] I believe that we talked about almost everything, I spoke generally about Europe, I spoke about Bochum, I can only ask one question [give answers to questions?], to the people who allowed me to do this interview. I’m ready the moment things would expand, if they still should have a need any more questions to ask, then I will be ready to answer.
[i] Thank you very much for your seduction and I wish you good luck. Goodbye.
[r] Thank you very much.