[i]Today is the 27.02.2019 I am at [name]’s home. [name] Hanım (expression of courtesy and respect), thank you for taking the time to allow the interview.

[r] Also I thank you.

[i] [name] hanım (lady) When you came here, did you have anything with you? A memento?

[r] I didn’t bring anything.

[i] You had nothing with you?

[r] I didn’t have anything with me. I actually came as a musician for three months. I came for a concert performance. Then I couldn’t go back, so I stayed.

[i] What year was that?

[r] It was the last week in October 1977.

[i] Where did you arrive?

[r] I first arrived in Herne. I arrived in Herne.

[i] You arrived in Herne?

[r] (Agreeing sound)

[i] You stayed three months?

[r] Yes.

[i] What was next?

[r] I’ll never forget that, I was about 17.5 years old in Herne Gysenberg at that time, so I was a young girl, there were concerts outside. I even got a bouquet from Willy Brandt. I will never forget this moment. It was a beautiful time. I stayed in Herne for about two years. Then I came to Bochum. Since 1981 I live here in Bochum.

[i] You mentioned Willy Brandt. Do you have pictures with Willy Brandt? Did you have a story about the encounter with him?

[r] No, not at all. I didn’t even know Willy Brandt with my 17.5 years. Friends have seen it in the newspaper. I couldn’t follow it and was very sad about it. I was in Herne with the police, had something to do. The policemen there showed it to me. I was baf. In the daily newspaper, in the headline. I had such an experience. It touched me very much, I was excited.

[i] A beautiful memory.

[r] Yes, it was a beautiful experience.

[i] How did the police govern when they saw your picture in the newspaper? How did they behave towards you? Positive? Negative?


They reacted positively, I was very happy. I didn’t know anything about the article. Had something to do there. I was mentioned by name. They showed it to me. When they showed it to me, I got very excited. I was really shocked.

[i] Then you came to Bochum?

[r] Yes, about 1981 I settled in Bochum. Since then until today

[i] Where did you come to Bochum? First I came to Freiligrathstraße. For about a year I lived near the city park. After that I lived two years on the Regener Straße. I was an asylum seeker for six years. After six years I went back to Turkey.

[i] Why did you return to Turkey six years after applying for asylum? Has your asylum application been rejected? Did you experience difficulties?

[r] So it was, my application was rejected. I say that with sadness. Since my application was rejected I went back to Turkey. At that time the proceedings were conducted in Munich. Apart from me there was no one from Turkey. I was the first Turkish woman to seek asylum. That is how I experienced it. I went to court myself. With the train I am there and back. with an acquaintance. I experienced that.

[i] When you arrived in Bochum, what was it like? Honestly, I really like Bochum. I have lived here since 1984. In my present apartment on Kortumstr. I love Bochum very much. It is really a quiet, orderly city. I live in the Bermuda Triangle (area with many pubs, bars). No matter where I go, when I get to the Kortumstr. I feel like in paradise. That’s how much I love it. So the years passed.

[i] What did you do in those six years?

[r] I made music. I was an artist.

[i] Back when you were young. Did you have the opportunity to graduate from school? Why didn’t you take the chance?

[r] You had to know German to graduate from school. As a musician, I concentrated on music. Of course there were offers. You could at least become a nurse. I am afraid of injections and blood. I could not use the training. I did not accept the offer.

[i] If you are afraid of blood, of course you cannot become a nurse.

[r] I couldn’t. I even worked in the cemetery for a while. Seven to eight months, I think almost a year. That’s when I got scared, too.

[i] That’s interesting, what did you do there?

[i] I had to get up very early. The dead had to be washed. In the hall, they are decorated with flowers, so the dead man is made. There was another lady. Together with her we checked the rooms. I can’t forget that. May God forgive me, but I am afraid of the dead. It is said that one should be afraid of the living, a dead person cannot harm one. I cannot influence my fear. The lady was not afraid, I hid behind her. I held on to her, hid behind her when we entered the rooms. When I realized she wasn’t there. Screaming I ran out. I said to the leader that I could not make it, I asked for indulgence. The leader was a young man. Luckily for me he had understanding. After that I didn’t go there anymore. I dreamed of the dead every night. I had the feeling they were under my bed. I always slept with locked doors. I have experienced many fears.

[r] This thing is really interesting but also difficult. You can say that you have experienced a trauma.

[r] Yes.

May God forgive me for being very afraid of snakes and the dead. I can’t even stand snakes on television. I am from Dersim (main settlement area of the Kurdish Alevis in Turkey) there are many snakes and also big ones. When I was very small, for example, we went to the stable with the animals. I walked very carefully, as if snakes were everywhere. Those were my experiences. I cannot look at them. I pray to God to take these fears away from me. Someday we will all go there. But I can’t help it.

[i] You mentioned Dersim. Where were you born in Dersim? Tell something about it.

[r] I am from Pülümür/Dersim, from the village Kirkmeşe. The old name is Göbirge. The new name is Kirkmeşe. Our village is beautiful, really like paradise. Even our important people have visited our village. The deceased Kamer Genç. Uğur Dündar. Lately the whole Koç family is gone. Our community leader is doing a really good job. He is young. May God give him a long and healthy life. So it is. I go there every two to three years. I am concerned about my origin. I come from Chorasan, from the family “ehlibeyt”. Even if I do not follow my duties pedantically, I try to keep them. May God accept it.

[i] A beautiful thing.

[r] Every year I try to make the offering, fast. I like to help very much. Eighth big and small. That’s me, very emotional. I never want to hurt anyone. But my heart was often broken. You say: too good-natured. You must not be too good-natured. But I am also friendly to people who have not been good to me. Nevertheless, I am a soft-minded person. That’s how I am.

[i] That’s a beautiful quality. Of course, people are very different, ruthless.

[r] Yes.

[i] Not to lose this quality

[r] Yes, that’s very nice. I have never forgotten my language. When I finished first grade, my sister got sick in Istanbul. She was sick. She had many children, she brought me to her. So that I could take care of her children. I was eight, not nine years old. After that I took my nephew to me. He had cancer. He died here at the age of 46. God have mercy on his soul. That was 2014, on 16 October poor child carried the bag on his back, We were a poor family, I can say. I was wearing rubber shoes. Next to my father I jumped around and shouted: yippie, I’m coming to Istanbul. I was so happy. I will never forget that. I arrived in Maltepe, sat on the coach. eeh The child was wearing diapers. My sister always did it that way. Then I noticed a crying. My sister lovingly pointed out to me: wui (exclamation) dear sister, you are sitting on the child. I was a child myself. I have lived such a life. My sister was a particularly valuable person. My brother-in-law was a cruel man, God bless him. I lived with my sister for about 3 to 4 years until I was 12 to 13 years old. Then I moved to Beşiktaş to my brother, who was the head of the door. My brother lived there. I went to my brother, lived there. In a heating floor I slept. Sometimes my mother came to me from the village. When we woke up at night, excuse me, there were mice, huge cockroaches. Walking around. Anxiously I embraced my mother. The animals crawled out, the mice came out. I made such experiences. One day, after that, Melek got a job. So I went there. I started working there.

[i] How old were you?

[r] I think I was about 11 years old. Was that the case? Or 13/13 years old.

[i] How was the factory work?

[r] I started working in the factory. I started. There was little, we collected chewing gum in cans for 25 cents. My friends met once, they lived there. They collected for me and asked me to sing for them because they liked my voice. They said: We wouldn’t work here if we were you. I was a very good and good young girl. I had built up such a picture of myself. I think our superiors were Jewish or Armenian siblings. They were very nice and valuable people. They always called me a Kurdish girl. Smile a little you said. Families entrusted me with their daughters to look after. I was accepted as very trusting by Weit und Breit. Friends pushed me to a competition. They drew my attention to the poster. I had no idea how that would work. And my brother’s wife died at the time. God have mercy on her soul, she too was a tyrant. It is said: If you run away from the rain and in hail device… I ran away from a tyrannical brother-in-law and got caught up with a tyrannical sister-in-law. Nevertheless, God have mercy on her soul. They have gone over. I am sure that they had to account to the beyond. Nothing remains because of malice. Only goodness and beauty are my alternatives. Because I think so I expect the same from everyone. Unfortunately, not everyone is like that. In order not to disappoint my friends I went to the competition. I was nevertheless I a child was successful. In Beyoglu (capital of the circle of the same name of the Turkish province İstanbul) the performance took place. I was supposed to sell thirty tickets. At that time there were not so many television programs. There was something, what was the name again?

[i] TRT (Turkish State Television).

[r] It was still in black and white. So there was TRT, that’s where I went. The competition was held at the Gari Casino in Istanbul. I took part in it. Even before the competition I was on stage at weddings with my beautiful voice. Like I said, I was a young girl. So I could handle the excitement a bit. Finally, at the competition I performed like an experienced artist in the Gari Casino. Everyone was allowed to recite a song. At that time I have from Muhlis Akarsu, God have him blessed, may he rest in peace, “Ne sevdiğin belli ne sevmediğin” recited. Then the Juri, if they are still alive, greeted them. If they have already died, God bless them. Fatma Türkan Yamaci, Ahmet Yamaci The Juri consisted of this couple. As far as I can remember. One day I have Zeki Müren (poet, composer, nickname: “Sun of Art”), God bless him, from the area POP Ajda Pekan, and we from the area Turkish Folk Music Fatma Türkan Yamaci and Ahmet Yamaci Then I performed. It was nice, even my superiors were there. Also my sister-in-law, who suppressed me, was sitting in front. The competition went very well. As far as I can remember, I was the 31st in the row. I was first in the competition. We had relatives who were also artists. They invited me. My brother-in-law was a poet, she tells me that I have a beautiful voice. I have such an experience. Two or three of us came here. As I said, the first thing I did was to come to Herne. Out of my misery I thought it could be a way out, out of poverty and misery. A tyrannical sister-in-law. Sometimes I came hungry from work and went to bed like that. What I deserved I gave away. I was a child, could not defend myself She was a strong man. If only she were not. Once it carried itself to In Sivas lived a brother named Ramazan He told me once: your bad fate befalls you there. I thought to myself: go and save yourself. Germany was called Promise. So I came. I lived with a family for about a year or a year and a half. I also experienced a lot of bad things there. They used up all my income.

[i] Was it a German family?

[r] It was a Turkish family that brought me here. I also experienced a lot of infamy from them. They took all my income. They took everything out of my hands. On my back they became rich within a short time. For example, we have been holding New Year events for years. People from the neighbourhood complained. The police came. They came, they saw the atmosphere. They joined us and drank raki with us. The atmosphere was very nice. The program was beautiful. These are my experiences. I was alone, but I had many relatives here. My aunt. My cousin. My uncles and their children are in Cologne. I got married in 1987. Also by him I suffered much.

[i] Who did you marry?

[r] What?

[i] Was he an acquaintance or relative?

[r] He came from Erzincan, but originally from Dersim. He was really crazy and insane. Honestly, I am grateful that I am out of this relationship. The psychologist recommended two years of treatment. Of course I didn’t know that. We knew each other from Turkey since we were little. I had no idea that he could be such a bad person. In the five years of marriage I experienced hell. I am liberated from him. I did not marry for eight years. After that I brought someone from home. He turned out to be my ex-husband.

[i] What year was that?

[r] What year? That was 198. My mother passed away in 1999. 1998 was it. Was it 1998? Was it 78? 78 Could it have been 1987? It was. 1987/1988 Yes, it was 1988, on June 31st. My mother died in 1989, no, not at all. I am confused.

[i] Eight years after the separation…

[r] After the separation I did not get married for eight years. After about eight years in 1990 I separated from my husband.

[i] That must have been in 1998.

[r] Yes, 1998. Right. I got married in 1998. My mother passed away in 1999. Yes, on 31.07.1998 I got married. I brought him from Turkey. He was irresponsible. Has me also very suffering let. About 2005 I got divorced. In Turkey was not divorced yet. He had others mediate, so we stayed married for some time. I let myself be persuaded, gave him another chance, but it didn’t work out. It came to an end. Since then I have been living alone with my child.

[i] You have a daughter.

[r] I have a daughter.

[i] How old is she, what does she do?

[r] She’s 17. She goes to school. Finished 13th grade. Now she will be studying for three years in Wattenscheid. She wants to work for the city of Bochum. God willing. I hope she is successful.

[i] As a civil servant?

[r] Yes as a civil servant.

[i] Wish her much success. You said you had family, uncles and aunts here. What is your relationship like?

[r] We see each other. We visit each other. For a while we visited each other. Everyone has their own tasks, problems. After the separation from my first husband I brought my brother here. In 1990. In 1991 I brought my deceased nephew here. In 1992 I brought my older nephew here. Everyone took their own apartment. Everyone has his work, tasks.

[i] Do you have a family in Bochum?

[r] My brother lives at the beginning of my street.

[i] Do you have other relatives?

[r] They are in Cologne, a brother lives in Bielefeld. He has gone back to Turkey. He got cancer. And he had an operation. Two years ago he went to Turkey for good. Now he lives in Istanbul. It’s a miracle. The doctors gave him six months. Thank God two years have passed since then. He is well in Turkey. He is in treatment.

[i] They came from Herne to Bochum.

[r] I went from Herne to Bochum, yes. Was it easy to find an apartment back then? There was luck with it. When I came from Turkey in 1984 I stayed with a friend for about a month. After one month I immediately found this apartment. Where I live now. I have lived here since 1984. I am quite satisfied. The house belonged to a German. Then a Yugoslav bought the house. According to him the owner is a Turk. We get along.

[i] How is your relationship with your neighbours? If you’ve lived here for so long, you’re actually the owner.

[r] Yes. That’s how it is, I should have bought this house. Unfortunately, that didn’t work out. It’s almost 40 years. I can’t calculate. I have very good communication with my neighbours. I am liked and respected in my environment. Also in the musical environment. Almost everyone I have worked with, including Mahsuni Serif, God bless him. With the deceased Neşet Ertas ağbi (polite salutation) I have worked together for a very long time. With Müslim Gürses, I worked about two months in the same club. Afterwards with Suat Sayin God they all have blessed! They were very good people. They were always polite to me. I was very liked. In former times, concerts were something special. You can say: there is a lack of respect for art. Why? Because everyone opens an event hall. Discos. The current youth prefers something like that. I also used to organize weddings and concerts. Per wedding we were at least three artists. Oriyan Tali for example. With masters of their profession. With “davul and Zurna” (drum and clarion). The cameramen, the photographers. At weddings I organized everything. But today there is no such thing.

[i] Could this also be partly rather dependent on interests? Because the technology has changed, the youth can be said to be able to give concerts themselves. Technically they can do it themselves. Therefore, if I’m not mistaken, it could rather have to do with different milieus. In the past it was not possible. A piece of music, an artist, you could only hear at one concert. Today everyone can listen wherever they want. It has more to do with that. Honestly, I don’t like today’s music at all. Not only me, also the music Every important artist complains. For example. For example, amateurs perform in wedding halls, amateur orchestras perform. As an artist, it is very important to me. I can create an entire program with a Darbuka. Unfortunately there is a waitress in the salons today. Then playback is played. From the music direction Pop So people are cheated. For example, the weddings or concerts I organized were given for Davul and Zurna in addition up to 900€. Today it is like this: One piece is decorated with a drum and then the Zurna is added to it. That hurts a lot. Music is not there. Earlier I had a repertoire of about 1200 titles. Everywhere I have set up different different programs. To my regret one is fobbed off with playback programs. With readings pieces are performed. We were not like that. When it came up as a new piece, people wanted to hear it, I played it. If we listened to it, bought the album we wrote it down Then we played it a few times together The third time we performed the piece. Unfortunately very valuable artists left us. You can’t live on it anymore. It’s over.

[i] When you were young, you had dreams. What dreams did you have?

[r] Of course I had dreams There I am disappointed, God forgive me. God assigned this to me. I could no longer exert myself My two marriages The wrong people in my life. I was often deceived. My good nature was often exploited. So I can say. If someone wanted money I have, even if I had no money, I have given my money, gold. To help the person. But unfortunately they were all devious. They gave nothing back. I lost everything. I have nothing.

[i] You can say what you dreamed of

[r] I couldn’t realize it.

[i] Couldn’t you realize. Is there something you are proud of?

[r] (Agreeing sound)

[i] Do you have a memory like that?

[r] I am proud of myself. I’ve had two marriages, haven’t taken advantage of them. So I can say. When I put something into my head, I put it into my head. I have a slipped disc, too. Musically I am very much loved. Characterally I am loved and honoured. That makes me proud. I have lost a lot materially, but at least I am proud of my honesty and independence. That is a beautiful thing.

[i] How did you get on with German society?

[r] My former neighbours were Germans, two different spouses each lived in this house for 15 years. They liked me very much. They were very valuable people, the husbands got prostate cancer and didn’t return from the hospital. The women moved out because the flat was too big. I am loved and honoured. For example. B. Anyone who moved in or moved out I am reliable in everything. Even if I should starve, rent etc. I always pay. Have always paid.

[i] You said that you are traditional.

[r] Yes.

[i] How do you implement it?

[r] I find it here. I came here when I was 17.5 years old. In my identity card I am 5 years older. Actually I was born on 15.04.1959. With 17,5 I came to Germany. I try to use what I learned at home. I go to the Cem prayer houses, take care of my child. Try to do my duties. Try to teach my daughter a positive image of man. Not to exclude anyone. Try to teach her my basic values. I try to apply them.

[i] Do you have anything to do with the Alevite Association?

[r] I am in exchange with the association. I like to go there. For example, I fast according to our rules. Go there every evening Breaking our fast with the Dede (Imam with Alevis). Live a very familiar, close community. After fasting, I make my offerings, prepare Aşure As far as I can, I donate. These are beautiful things. I respect other views.

[i] Can you say that there are people of your origin? Alevis from Dersim.

[r] No, they come from everywhere. Sunni brothers and sisters also come. For example, if we have Aşure. In the Cem house Aşure is prepared. Many siblings from the mosques visit us. Our ladies prepared Aşure there. They praised our Aşure repeatedly. We taught them. They did it together. ]R] There’s an exchange between religions, you say? No difference must be made. I am against discrimination. We as Alevis, to my regret, have been very oppressed and humiliated. Have experienced a lot of slander. Experienced lies.

As an Alevitin and as a woman in Turkey and here you have, because you Alevitin to Have you experienced oppression?

[r] Oppression?

[i] Oppression or exclusion.

[r] Yes, of course. I’ll give you an example. I worked in Velbert at Mercedes. The colleagues came from Kütahya, Zonguldak, they came from every region, in general they were Turks. They did, they knew me as an artist. In the morning after the performances, after 2-3 programs, without sleep I went with my costume, made up I went to the factory. That’s where I changed and worked. My superiors knew that I was an artist. After that, they fasted to Ramadan, I had respect for it. One day I fasted to harem. I was asked why I didn’t eat with them during the break. I answered that I grasped What fasting it would be I was asked. I answered: The Muharrem fast (expression of attachment to Imam Huseyin). Oh, you are Alevitin, they said. Most of the girls were uneducated. I affirmed it. Then a discussion began. The discussion became strange. Then it was: “My father, mine admires you. I replied that they expressed themselves inappropriately. That hurt me very much. There was another Alevitin. She was wearing a necklace with a sword pendant (Alevitic symbol), she was wearing it hidden under her sweater. That made me very sad. I told these people what was necessary. Go and tell your parents who admire me and greet them and tell them that they didn’t raise you well! It is obvious that you have been taught exclusion. Open a book, learn what Aleviism means. Where does it come from? Excuse me, but you slander. I have experienced such an unfair treatment. That hurt me deeply one day organizing a wedding. The groom was from Dersim The bride was from Sinop as far as I remember. I don’t remember that well: The bride was told that Alevis the father of the groom would sleep with the bride before the wedding. The bride loved the groom very much. loved him very much. She could not open her fiancé. Because she loved him so much, she stayed with him anyway. We met at a concert. The groom told me what had happened. The bride confessed these incredible defamations. What decent people you are, it’s not true what you would teach them. I can’t forget these things and I’m still experiencing them. The massacre of Sivas, of Corum. There was the massacre of Maras. What was the passing away of these people? These were committed by ignorant fanatics. They are uneducated, not a brain. The brain does not work. If it worked, they wouldn’t do that! For example, we lived together with our Sunni neighbours. No one has excluded one as an Alevite or as a Sunni. During the Sivas massacre in a part of Erzincan they burned some people alive. It still touches me a lot when I think about it. I get so sad that I can’t hold back the tears. What had these people done wrong? It is enough, it should be over. Really! Peace should come in, humanity should apply, everyone should embrace each other. The leaders should be careful, unity should be. Truth should apply. But unfortunately the wrong things are followed. There are so many who are after the wrong people. That bothers me.

[i] Isn’t it more about these people living in a comfortable, democratic country, living in that country, carrying their despotic traditional views here? Where does that come from?

[r] I think out of ignorance. Because who has no education, while not everyone who has gone to school has education There are so many ignorant people. Excuse me, I have respect for everyone and every culture. It is well known that people from Tuncelli are among the most educated. Have you ever heard that Tuncelli has had such a thing wrong? One or two years ago a disabled child raped another disabled child. The whole population in Dersim rose up against it. And both are handicapped. They even wanted to lynch this child. Everyone spoke out against it. Why? Because they are clever. On the other hand, I have respect for every righteous Hoca, Haci, I bow to you. Unfortunately, there are so many fools in it. They are leading people in the wrong direction. Whether they like it or not, if they don’t turn on their brains, they run after them. They are not even able to seek the truth. If they would educate themselves, know the world, there would be no bad person. I don’t like the situation in Turkey lately. For example, I would like to go to Turkey in the near future, but it frightens me. Before that we could sleep in our villages under the open sky, outside in front of the entrance. But today everyone is afraid. When I go to the village I only stay 10 to 15 days because I am afraid. Is there something worse?

[r] You’re right, it has to do with ignorance. Lack of decency and lack of education. But in this case I also miss knowledge in educated people. Do you mean Europeans or our people? People from Turkey living in Europe. Because the Europeans are not the topic for us. We experience oppression through our people. In Europe there is social pressure.

[r] But our people

[i] If the new government had the opportunity, they would want to use the Erdogan system here as well. That’s what they have in mind. Where does that come from?

[r] Honestly, I don’t like the Erdogan concept at all. People should finally come to their senses. Unity is called for, as an individual no one can lead Turkey. Turkey does not belong to him alone. Turkey belongs to all of us. Alevis, Kurds, Lazens, Circassians This country belongs to every kind of person. There are so many poor people, that makes me sad. And there are still so many impossible uneducated people. Yesterday, for example. B. I looked at myself on the Internet: a young woman interviewed somewhere on a street in Antalya or so young people according to their views. Whoever she wants to interview, nobody stops. I would have liked to have said, stop. She could ask some of 100 three, or not The girl was certainly ashamed, too. Because she could not do her reportage. Nobody wants to answer questions. I don’t think that’s good. Everything was the same. In fact, the same people have been leading Turkey for 16/17 years. Give nevertheless times someone else a chance. What could he do? I do not agree with them. I do not agree with their opinion that you should act wisely and thoughtfully.

[i] Let’s go back to Bochum. So you’ve been living in Bochum since 1984. That’s now you’re considered to be from Bochum.

[r] You could say that.

[i] As you certainly know: Germany is a bureaucracy. How would you comment on that?

[r] I have to say that I don’t have a lot of experience with German politics.

[i] I mean daily life. What is generally called paperwork. Paperwork (in Turkish) Letters come from everywhere.

[r] I’m quite honest on this point at the end.

[i] Please tell us something about it.

[r] I am at the end, I speak little German. I can’t read it, I can’t figure out what it’s about. That’s why I visit valuable people like you who are employed by the city. You help us. We really benefit from you. I would like to thank you a thousand times for that. That is why I am experiencing great difficulties on this point. I am desperate.

[i] Can you put it this way: The order here is good, the bureaucracy.

[r] Yes. Disturbs us a lot.

[i] Right, that’s what they mentioned: they get help from others. Can your daughter help you with that?

[r] My daughter doesn’t understand everything. She tries to explain it to me. But she doesn’t understand everything either. No matter how smart she is, she can’t help her. Again I am the one who has to make an effort. That made me very tired.

[i] You are an artist.

[r] Yes

[i] What ties do they have to German culture?

[r] To be honest, there’s the cafeteria Backwerk here. Every second or third day I go there. I like to sit down there, sometimes I sit down with friends. We also meet German friends there. Everyone writes me about Erdogan. Some Erdogan proponents treat a cool. That’s how I feel. One can reduce hurdles by speeches. Beautiful conversations come about. I can’t communicate so well. But…

[i] I ask more about cultural things. Do you visit the Schauspielhaus? Cinemas, theatres?

[r] Honestly, no. Why? because it’s not enough financially.

[i] Because your budget is not enough?

[r] I would like to, would like to visit beautiful places. Would like to live beautifully. Unfortunately not possible. My income is just enough for the running costs. I have a child, a car. Therefore, there is not much left.

[i] There’s not much left for social activities, you say?

[r] That’s it.

[i] There are also many free ones. What do you like most about Bochum?

[r] For example, I would like to go swimming every week in Gysenberg. I really like the Gysenberg swimming pool. When I was still working I could often go there. When I was still making music. At the moment I can’t go. Since I’m a mother, I couldn’t go. Yes.

[i] Are there other places where you like to go?

[r] If I had the opportunity, I would refuel my car, for example. My daughter sometimes jokes: Mom feeds our car. I act according to my budget. Of course I would like to go to Cologne, Düsseldorf or Dortmund with my daughter. I can only afford such a thing once a year.

[i] Which part of Bochum do you not like at all? Which part of Bochum would be there? If it weren’t in Bochum, it could be better.

[r] I really like Bochum because it’s clean. I live right in the city. Above all, there is a beautiful order here. For instance. B. When Bochum Total takes place it is so crowded. A lot is drunk. Despite drinking it there is no riot. I can go with my daughter. In Turkey there would be incidents of abuse, other incidents. But there is no such thing here. Yes, well, there have been some incidents due to the Syrian refugees. My neighbours downstairs are Syrians, but they are very pleasant. I can carry my handbag without hesitation. One can be outside until 24h, 1-2 o’clock. Actually I am already in bed at 23h.

[i] You mean to say: Do you feel safe in Germany?

[r] We’re safe, that’s how I see it.

[i] That sounds good.

[i] What concerns, fears do you have?

[r] I don’t understand.

[i] Concerning the future.

[r] For example. B. Will I retire soon. My daughter will get married sometime. Will create a home when she finishes school, God willing. I would like to live in Turkey for 4-5 months. I will not be able to go there under these conditions. I have fears. So I will have to pass my time somehow.

[i] What does your daily life look like? When I get up in the morning I don’t feel so good. I get up late because of my complaints. Sometimes I feel like a bird. Sometimes I can’t get up. I do the household. I deal with paperwork and shopping. Then I sit with friends at the bakery.

[i] What kind of bakery do you mean?

[r] Opposite the fish shop.

[i] Understand opposite the fish shop at our place.

[r] After the traffic light turn right, not at your place.

[i] Yes.

[r] In former times we went there. The prices fit everyone. The coffee is also very tasty. It’s not just because of that, you also have coffee at home. For a change.

[i] Coffee is just a pretext?

[r] That’s how it is. Friends come. Chatting. Talking about here and there That’s how I spend my days. Come home, watch the news. I never miss the news. I’m interested in what happens in the world.

[i] You wanted to leave the family, now you want to go back. Where do your parents live, siblings. How many do you have?

[r] My parents: My father died in 1997. On 03 March. My mother died in 1999. In October also on the 3rd. My parents are no more.

[i] How many brothers and sisters are you?

[r] We are six brothers and sisters. In 2014 my sister and the oldest died. One brother lived in Germany, he went to Turkey. A sister lives in Ankara. In summer she goes to our house in the village. In Yalova I have a brother. We were six. One died. There were five left. Then another brother lives on my street.

[i] What is your relationship with your brothers and sisters in Turkey? Can you see each other?

We have a good contact. We are very polite to each other. Very respectful. Love each other, have close ties. Unfortunately we are so far apart. I can go every other year. I meet my brother from time to time. He had two heart surgeries. That’s how it is. With our relatives from the distance we exchange ourselves about the distance.

[i] About technical media.

[r] That’s the way it is. Both in Turkey and here I have a large family.

[i] You mentioned your marriages. I would like to ask something: Have you ever been in love?

[r] The first man I married was a child loving man. My sister, my brother-in-law, and I went to the movies. A friend of mine comes from his village. He ordered us this and that there. Going out together, there was no flirting. I could not get to know him. I was about 13 years old. Not for nothing is it called child love. Years later, he lived in Holland, we came together. The wedding took place in Turkey. Unfortunately he turned out to be very ill. Fate. A reasonable woman would never let her home be destroyed. But unfortunately, if it is unbearable, you have to stop it.

[i] What does identity mean to you?

[r] I beg your pardon?

[i] How would you imagine yourself?

[r] now?

[i] In general.

[r] I don’t feel complete. I have difficulties that make me sad. Aloneness is actual closeness to God. I have no ideas, no need for a man. I don’t believe that there are still decent, honest people. It is said: the coming one lets the last one search. I have fears. I live together with my daughter.

[i] I had meant the question as follows: You were a child when you came here.

[r] Yes. They have lived here since 1976 and 1984.

[r] Since 1977.

[i] Every year, despite the adverse situation,

[r] I couldn’t go for six years. Nevertheless, you regularly go to Turkey. What do you feel like? Turkish? Germans? For many it is like this: Here they are foreigners, there they are “Germans”. How do you feel about it? How do you see it, like society. I can say: With my bad German, if I have to go to an authority, I try to communicate. Of course, it gets difficult here and there. I wish I had learned German as well as I have learned Turkish. My situation would have been different. In Turkey you also experience a lot. I can’t cope with the money. Or one experiences inevitably some. How nice it would be if you could live in your own country like here. Nevertheless, I do not find it very difficult.

[r] Where do you feel you belong more?

Of course I miss Turkey, it’s our home. We miss our relatives. When I’m here longer I miss Germany. I can say that it has also become our home here. It becomes more important.

[i] How do you evaluate your hurdles as a woman? Apart from that as a foreigner, as a woman? Difficulties experienced here or in Turkey.

As a woman I have felt the paperwork in particular for years, as particularly difficult. I am tired. Even when I was married I had to do everything myself. It is said that I am both a man and a woman. I am tired, I have been working since my childhood. That’s how it is.

[i] What jobs did you do in Germany?

[r] in Germany worked for one year at the Red Crescent

[i] The German Red German?

[r] Yes, one year.

[i] German Red Cross?

[r] Yes to the German Red Cross.

[i] What did you do there?

[r] Goods arrived, we classified them. Helped the customers. Did you forward them to the social welfare office at . Example… Or here or there. If necessary, we have given a letter.

[i] How long did you work there?

[r] One year.

[i] Why did you stop? I worked for a year, then I got sick, had to have a nail removed. My foot hurt a lot. I was dismissed. Actually, they only let you work for a year. For a while, half a year or a year I worked in Bergmannsheil. For about 4-5 months I worked at Kochlöffel. It was directly opposite of you. Where the Arabs are now. Where the Syrians are now. That was cooking spoon. There was chicken. I worked there. About 5-6 months. Then I worked 13 years in the Mercedes factory.

[i] In which one?

[r] In Velbert, I made individual parts.

[i] How did the separation come about?

[r] After the birth of my daughter, I slipped. In the morning on the way to work. I slipped and fell. Only after work did I get a lot of pain. My left leg swollen and turned blue. I went to the hospital. I was on sick leave for three months. Then you gave me notice. My child was all ready, there was nobody there to take care of her. She needed me. In kindergarten a woman took care of her. What was her name? I don’t know if she was Greek? No, she was Russian. When she picked up my daughter from kindergarten, she was crying terribly. Why her mom didn’t pick her up. That’s why I didn’t fight for it. It was not more important than my child. Later the factory moved. Yesterday I met a former colleague. The company hasn’t existed for years. Has been sold. It stood as well as so on wobbly legs.

[i] Have you ever thought about starting your real job with music again?

[r] I didn’t think about it because my vocal chords are broken. I have some complaints. That hit me very hard. The reflex caused me to lose my voice. My voice was very good, I can say. When my voice was gone, it made me very sad. Since about 10 years I don’t go to concerts anymore. Occasionally I go to weddings. I have gone to weddings and fine arts shows. After that I took a break. Last year I had an operation on my stomach.

[i] That is of course sad. When you can’t do your job anymore.


Yes, I love my job. If I’m to be born again, God willing, I want to be an artist again. But this time I want to enjoy my youth.

[i] You want to do it differently, you say (laughs).

[r] (Laughs) Will use my time differently.

[i] No more wrong decisions?

[r] Yes. This time I won’t give anyone my right. In the same way, I won’t let you take advantage of me.

[i] Self-confidently and safely go your way?

[r] Yes.

[i] Go ahead with a clear goal in mind?

[r] Exactly. I’m still getting requests, but I can’t. It’s a live broadcast. Because my voice is gone, it doesn’t work. That makes me sad.

[i] If you remember the piece that brought you first place, could you sing it to us? If you remember the lyrics.

[r] What?

[i] The piece that brought you victory.

[r] Siingt. ]R] Thank you very much, your voice is still very beautiful!

[r] The voice is good, but I can only use a quarter of my voice. I have broken many records. I have a strong voice. God willing, I thought about making an album. Or a video clip. But it’s expensive, I don’t have anyone to support me. If you were a supporter, you could do a lot. You could do playback. Then you don’t need to sing live. I couldn’t keep what I had, now it is.

[i] Because of the language barrier, you couldn’t get an education.

[r] I didn’t think about it. Because I didn’t have time for it.

[i] And you were working then.

[r] Yes, I worked.

[i] You had other plans.

[i] Let’s get to the point of leaving Turkey. You had to leave Turkey.

[r] Yes.

[i] They have applied for asylum here.

[r] (Agreeing sound)

[i] Tell something about it. What difficulties have you experienced?

[r] After I came from Turkey or in Turkey?

[i] In Turkey and here.


[r] In Turkey…

[i] You were just a child.

[r] Yes, I was just a child. Of course I had longings. I arrived here and after that I endured the difficulties well.

[i] How was that arriving? So, You are a child. How did your mother and father react? How did your sister respond?

[r] My father lived in the village anyway. My mother, I lived with my brother in Istanbul. We were very poor. When I was The deceased Nurettin Daldaloglu was there I carried before In a restaurant I read my daughter was under the table? Nurettin Dadaloğlu you probably know, he is a great voice. He comes from Erzincan (before 1915 mainly inhabited by Armenians). He said he was either from Bayburt or Erzincan, he said he wanted to visit us at home. So we came here I confessed to him ashamed that we are janitors. He became sad, took me in his arms and said: “My daughter, do you know “Have my pedals, help me tie my shoelaces, I’m leaving Bayburt’s mountains” This piece is from me, you know that? We cried together. We went into the apartment together. I entertained him. I will never forget this experience. I came with my brother-in-law and someone else from his village. He was my father’s age. His wife had told him about me rumors Zugtagen. That he had brought me here as a second wife. I have experienced much, bad. The slander deeply hurt me. I was decent. I never allowed such approaches. But they took my money. They were very bad to me, may God not forgive them. As far as I know, they also lost it again. Everyone will have to bear the consequences of his actions. I stayed there for about a year, then I rented my own apartment. In Bochum Freiligrathstr. Since then I live here. The slander and blasphemies were hard to bear. They took everything away from me, I could not defend myself. They treated me badly, beat me. I have experienced very bad things. I don’t want to think about it.

[i] What was your parents’ reaction to you wanting to leave?

[r] My parents, my father lived in the village We could never bring him to our town. My mother lived with a tyrannical aunt she trusted them gave me away, so to speak. In that form she entrusted me to them.

[i] One can say, to give you a chance, have they given you away?

[r] It was exactly the same.

[i] Please forgive me for drilling so deep. But these experiences are important.

[r] The experiences cannot be denied.

[i] Yes.

[r] I had a hard time.

[i] You had a hard time. You could say it determined your future.

That’s it. These difficulties hindered you. With your resources, in Germany… You could have learned the language. You could have been trained.

[r] So it is. They kept me small, I was under their influence for six years. That was my life.

Did you ever think of getting help? From the Youth Welfare Office? Did you know about the possibility?

[r] No I didn’t know my rights and was prevented from doing so. I was the golden whole. Would they leave it to someone else? Would they allow it to be their consciousness? That’s how they held me.

[i] Your other relatives, didn’t you ask them for help?

[r] My other relatives? I couldn’t open myself to anyone, couldn’t say it. I didn’t say it. to. Example. My aunt (on my mother’s side) came and took me to Konstanz. Her children also made music so that we could make music together. I was supposed to take care of them like a housemaid. She rented me an apartment. For some time I came back here. It was very difficult to cancel my registration. There was the 30 KM limit for asylum seekers. So I came back, hired lawyers, and signed back in. I lost about a year because I trusted my aunt. I would not have thought to mistrust her. She invested all her income in gold. That was also a blow. I only got to know her in Germany.

[i] Right, relatives can also exploit.

[r] That’s the way it is.

[i] You have lost faith in people.

[r] Unfortunately, I no longer have confidence. In the end she tried to destroy my self-confidence. Go work in a factory, our family won’t become a musician. God’s gift, my voice, why shouldn’t I use it? Why shouldn’t I use it? In the end I took her advice and worked in the factory.

[i] Against the backdrop of these hurdles you are still fighting alone.

[r] Yes, I can hold out.

[i] You raised your daughter alone. That’s great. What do you want for your daughter? Let me ask you this: Where would you like to see your daughter in 20 years?

[r] For my daughter, I want her to continue my work and become a good musician. Since elementary school I send her to the Saz course (long-necked). She continues it. But not the way I want it to be. Have your impression, she doesn’t give her so much pleasure that I force her. Sometimes she takes it into her own hands, plays. School comes before music. It should have both: To be a profession and a musician. If one doesn’t work, she can do the other. I try to give her the chance to promote her as much as possible. She is polite, everyone likes her, she is respectful. Many can’t even say welcome. If visit is there to the . Example. I make them aware of dangers. There are many bad people. That she doesn’t take strangers into her apartment, forwards strangers to me. She welcomes the guests, entertains them, calls me until I come.

[i] That’s nice How you educate her. If I am not mistaken, when you become a pensioner you will want to go to Turkey. Live a time in Turkey?

[r] That’s it.

[i] Why? I have many relatives there. For years we have missed each other, my cousins and I. I see their posts, it draws me to them. We hear about each other over the Internet. They also ask me when I will return from a foreign country. I have a very large family. My daughter, my brother is very respectful to me, he is respected by people. Even German newspapers reported about him. He was awarded with someone from Konya as the most attractive and kindest young man. He is a very good brother. I am grateful for that.

[i] After retirement Where do you want to live? In the village or in the city?

[r] Would want to stay in the village for about a month. Would like to live in the village. We have a house there. The state built it after the earthquake. I have liked Istanbul since my childhood. I want to live in Istanbul.

[i] Do you have relatives in Istanbul?

[r] I have many relatives in Istanbul.

[i] Do you have an apartment there?

[r] What?

[i] Do you have an apartment there?

[r] I think about it, but who knows.

[i] You hope to win the lottery?

[r] As I said, I was often cheated. I’ve often been cheated with buying a house.

[i] I understand.

[r] That’s right.

[i] For a while, religious institutions betrayed people. Do you mean them?

[r] That was in 1999 Demirel (Turkish politician) had laid the foundation for it. I had wanted to buy two houses. The money and the house are gone. I paid it off. Then something should be saved again… I had it done with Turks. They also cheated. For about 9 to 10 years the proceedings have been going on. Recently it was decided. There is nothing you can do, the insurance is statute-barred. That has also become nothing. That also left a deep wound. It was a lot of money, everything is gone.

[i] You are often in Turkish society. If you tell Germans that you’re from Turkey, you’re Alevitin. In the past all Germans were Turks and Sunnis. If you introduce yourself as an Alevitin, or introduce yourself as a Zaza-speaking Kurdish woman. What’s the reaction?

[r] That has now arrived in Europe: there are many studies on Alevis. Many accept Alevism, only Tayip Erdogan doesn’t want to accept it. That’s his problem. Germans tell me why I’m not veiled, that I’m modern. I try to explain to them as much as I can. In former times the Turks were not quite so conservative, I explain. According to Erdogan, through his wife, the veiling became more modern. I imagine myself as an Alevi Turk. Alevis are modern, more democratic people. That is how I am. Many know me as an Alevi. That’s how it is.

It’s nice to be able to live the freedom that is denied in your country somewhere else.

[i] They scold why they’re so conservative. I say that’s their way. It’s not like that with us. We also have our ideas of custom. But it has to look.

[i] Fidan Hanim, thank you very much. You answered all my questions honestly.

[r] You’re welcome.

[r] I was also very happy.

[i] That was a very nice interview.

[r] Thank you very much.

[i] That I was allowed to go to your house. And I wish you success and happiness in the next life.

[r] Thank you very much. I would also like to thank you, be welcome.