[i] Today is the 21st November 2018 I have come together with [name] to interview him love [name] thank you very much for your hospitality and tire for the interview.

[r] You are welcome

[i] Do we start with the beautiful instrument next to you that you brought with you? If you please take your instrument in your hands, let’s start like this.

[r] Yes, I brought my “Bağlama” with me.

[i] When you came from Turkey, did you bring your “Bağlama”?

[r] Yes.

[i] Would you like to explain to us why you brought it? tell us something about yourself and your instrument

[r] First of all: “Bağlama” plays a very important role in our culture. that’s why I brought my “Bağlama” with me, I couldn’t part from it, because we all songs and our lives ee We express our experiences and our pain by playing on the “Bağlama” so far that’s why my Bağlama has brought me.

[i] You can hold while you speak, your Blcik constantly falls on it, you can also gladly strum on it

[r] Will you cut up the video?

[i] Yes, I won’t worry you, the camera is already recording everything.

[r] I brought my “Bağlama” with me because it’s very important to us. It has a cultural meaning for us. Our pain, our suffering and our experiences, all our realities, basically we express it by playing on Bağlama, it has an important meaning in our culture, that’s why I can’t let it go, I always have it with me, I brought it with me.

[i] Who do you mean “we”?

[r] By “we” I mean: I am a Kurdish-born Alevite, that’s why it has a very important place in our lives. We have incorporated all our suffering into our songs. I play and sing as far as possible with my sister, who also lives here in Germany. One can say that we share our pain (sorrows) with this instrument.

[i] That sounds nice. Thank you very much. You are new in Germany, when did you come to Germany? Could it be that it is a year?

[r] Almost a year I am here, as you say, 10 months I am in Germany. At the moment I am attending a German course, I am learning the local language because I want to live here. I don’t want to go back.

[i] Why did you want to come to Germany in particular? Why not to another country?

[r] That’s a nice question. Everyone asks me this question. He laughs I came here because my sister is here. As you know, family ties are important to us. My sister would look after me, help me. Because as a stranger in a strange place would have become more difficult for me. I weighed the pros and cons. So I came here. My sister was very helpful to me. I have been living in this apartment for a short time. Two weeks ago I moved in.

[i] In which city did you arrive?

[r] I came directly to Bochum.

i] You came to Bochum without detours?

[r] I came to Bochum Langendreer.

[i] You came exactly where your sister lives?

Yes, exactly where my sister lives.

[i] Then you probably didn’t have it very difficult?

[r] I can say that I had hardly any difficulties, because my sister’s circle of friends is very large, she has many friends. She’s been here for many years, seven years. She introduced us, they accepted me. I have never experienced feelings of strangeness or difficulty/pressure. I won many German friends within a short time.

[i] By the way, you improved your German during this time.

[r] Many thanks ağbi (Respectful salutation).

[i] Actually I wanted to do the interview in German, but I think.

[r] We could have done it, but it would have been more exhausting for me.

[i] Right, it would have been more exhausting.

[r] To have it easier, I decided to continue in Turkish.

[i] Tell me about your German friends. How was your first encounter when you arrived? How and what do you feel in a foreign country with a foreign language, culture?

[r] I cannot forget my first impression, my first step on German soil. Because I am abroad for the first time and I became aware again that I come from a very bad place. I come from chaotic conditions, crooked houses, people in a bad financial situation. My first impression of Europe was: I asked myself: Where am I here? I saw that there were rules and order. People were not afraid. Getting to know Germans was made possible by my sister, my brother-in-law is German. eee I didn’t feel any strangers getting to know me, I wasn’t accepted as a stranger either. Maybe because I look more modern, I wear earrings. Maybe because of that, but of course there are also people who give me the feeling of being a stranger. As I said, I got in touch with Germans through my sister. We always had a very nice time. I can say that I almost never had bad experiences, very rarely there were situations.

[i] Can you perform these rare situations?

[r] Some Germans, I suppose many foreigners experience it like me, look angry. I could make such observations, for example my sister’s landlord. His attitude seemed hostile. He made trouble several times because of my presence.

[i] But he was a foreigner himself?

[r] It’s true, but the second landlord was the same, he was German. I forgot her name, but it was a German woman. The second landlord now in Langendreer is German. She caused me problems and she was not friendly, so unfriendly.

[i] So you say unfriendly? Have you also had any bad experiences?

[r] I had a bad memory here. Even though I don’t remember exactly, I remember the feeling of being a stranger. In exceptional cases, but I’ve experienced that feeling in the past ten months. Why did you come here? As if their looks would want to say: had you not come. Germans who don’t want to talk to you. For example, when I go to a party with German friends as a young foreign man, I feel the looks like when they ask themselves: who is that? I mean parties with mostly Germans. I felt the looks questioning, that’s how it felt. 100%

[i] How did you behave in these situations?

So I didn’t get angry or angry even though I could have been. I tried to adapt, I couldn’t do much. I twisted my eyes.

i] At the beginning you addressed Langendreer, in the short time you got to know Bochum.

[r] I got to know Bochum a little.

[i] In which streets of Bochum did you live? For example, you lived in Langendreer.

I lived in Bochum Langendreer, I have friends near the main station, I stayed in Lohring I can’t think of many names, but I was often in Maarbrücke. Now I stayed in Hustadt. I can say Bochum and its surroundings I have travelled. I lived in four to five different places.

[i] Where is the most beautiful place in Bochumist for you?

Quite honestly: I think the first place I think is where my sister lived. Langendreer is very beautiful, I think it’s beautiful there.

[i] There is surrounded by nature.

Yes, it’s surrounded by nature, the squirrels…

[i] Tell me about the first place?

Langendreer is a heavenly place for me,

[i] Tell of nature there

Like you said, it’s surrounded by nature. I often have the opportunity to see animals. Rabbits, squirrels, it’s strange, I see such things for the first time in my life. For example, when I leave the house in the morning, rabbits walk around. People are usually quiet and respectful. That’s why there was never anything annoying, there were no noises and no noises. It seemed like summer. In Turkey you have to be rich to live under such conditions. You have to be very rich to lead such a life. I have seen that even a student can live like that.

The problem is that not everyone can live there. For example, you’d have to get the water somewhere else.


[r] Ah, I understand, of course there are these . You get water from somewhere else and you have electricity problem, we get electricity from Aku or solar energy etc. Of course not everyone can live there, but there is a comfort there, so you stay here, I can say that this comfort suppresses the challenge.

There is no landlord, no neighbour problems, almost everyone who lives there has the same thoughts and people with the same structure.

Absolutely, everyone accepts you. Nobody says: why did you come here? Everyone there is “friendly,” friendly.

Are you going there again?

I try to go there on the weekend.

[i] Weekend only

Right, in winter life is very difficult there.

Is it cold in winter?

Yes, we have to keep the oven running all the time. Get permanent coal, chop wood when all the wood is gone.

When someone from Istanbul grew up, how did you feel about that?

I was always with my mother.

Your mother did everything for you, all of a sudden you’re faced with problems like stove, coal, chopping wood, but also getting the wood.

You’re busy carrying things, and then the water runs out.

[i] Tell us what it was like for you to experience something like this in a place like Germany?

It was like this: after about two to three months, I commuted back and forth between the apartment and this place. My sister rented a second apartment. She once lived in the new house and once there. It was hard there, in winter the water runs out. You have to buy water. If the wood runs out, then you have to chop wood in the cold. You have to fire the stove or freeze to death. The conditions were tough, but I liked it. Istanbul I connect mother warmth. I don’t know how to cook. I always ate the same food here. Noodles. Fried egg. I found it difficult.

Despite everything, you see it as a good start, don’t you?

It was very nice for me, that’s how I felt it. The effort I felt was very nice. If I had lived in Istanbul under such conditions, I probably would have gone crazy. But for some reason I didn’t feel it here. I guess it’s because I achieved my >goal to come here.

[i] Which place in Bochum is also very nice for you?

Bochum Ruhrpark is a very nice place, The University, there I always learn, in the library of the Ruhr University. There is a botanical garden. It’s very big, there’s even a Chinese garden. It’s very beautiful there. I relax there and read. For me it is the most beautiful place. I was also there with my mother. I like the botanical garden very much.

[i] You are an artist,

[r] Right.

[i] How do you rate the cultural activities?

i] Do you have the opportunity to participate?

I have both participated and participated. Because I want to learn the language quickly, I have little time.

i] Are you currently more involved with language learning?

[r] Yes, a lot. It’s understandable, you need goals if you want to live here,

[i] First, you have to find the countries

[r] Learn language, culture

[i] Besides, what’s the Bochum nightlife like? You are young, your Saz is in your hand,

[r] Yes

[i] You got earrings in your ear, what do people say?

[r] Yes, very interesting. People from our culture often say that I am versatile. I play Saz, wear earrings, dance in the club, this is also part of my life. I quickly got used to the nightlife here. As I said, I also have a side. But I don’t participate much in the nightlife, Mustafa ağbi, because, little by little, I felt it silly, from my perspective. I go dancing from time to time and have fun, but I hardly drink alcohol. The young people here get drunk too fast.

What is the difference between the nightlife here and Istanbul?

For someone who has a nightlife there is not much difference. There are also many clubs and parties in Istanbul. Recently their number has fallen as a result of the targeted increase in the price of alcoholic drinks. The construction of a mosque on Taksim Square has an effect and influences the entire nightlife on the spot and leads to closures. Normally there wasn’t much difference, but now the difference has increased.

Is there something in Bochum you don’t like?

That’s a good question. So right now I can’t tell beautiful from ugly. Everything seems beautiful to me, maybe because I’m new, maybe I’ll find something later. I can’t think of much at the moment. I was astonished the other day to see people walking in large groups. Predominantly people of foreign origin, I didn’t like them going in groups. I suppose that is everywhere in Germany.


[i] Have you ever thought about why that is?


Of course I did, I even asked Germans about it. A younger German even told me that his mother was against a friendship with a foreigner. Neither the Germans want to approach the foreigners, nor the migrants want to approach the Germans. A polarization develops. For example, the young Arab, Kurdish and Turkish youths always go around together. I rarely saw them with Germans. I don’t like that. For example, cultures are not intertwined I think religion plays a role, then there are national differences. Also here these things separate people from each other. Skin colour, hair colour as a difference in separation seems silly to me. These differences should no longer be made, but I think that nationality and religion make a difference. These differences also prevail in Germany.

i] Which side does it come from?

I think it comes from both sides. One side says: I am a Muslim, I am a Turk, or something else not to approach the Germans. The other side says they don’t want to integrate, so we don’t want them either, so they stay away. My Turkish, Kurdish and Arab friends told me so. Not everyone, but there are those who say. I cannot quantify it, I am talking about such groups. As an Alevi Kurd, I get on very well with Germans. I have no problems. We understand each other very well.

[i] Very nice, you are young, you learn a language, there are many books on the table

[r] Yes

[i] Exam training What level are you at at the moment?

r] I am currently between B2 and C1. I am at one of the highest levels required in Germany. Understanding, speaking, listening and reading comprehension is between C1 and B2. That’s how good my language level is now.

i] What is your goal for the future?

For the future here in Germany,

[i] Surely you have also noticed that here in Germany democracy prevails, even if one should not like it, democracy.

That’s right.

There’s freedom here, you can do anything you want, provided you don’t disturb others.


[i] You can reach any goal,

[r] Right.

[i] As a young man, what have you set as your future goal? Where do you want to see yourself in a few years when you have learned the language?

Before I came here, I thought that I would continue the music 100% in Germany. At the moment I have an easy job, I will always make music too. I would like to do social work I would like to combine music and social work to help people because I suffered a lot in Istanbul so I want to help people who have problems. My goal is to study social work in Germany and at the same time I want to develop my music to help people. I have such a goal right now.

i] It is nice and gratifying that someone who came here wants to help other people despite what you have experienced in your country. So that’s a good thing.

Thank you very much.

[i] We need active people here, people who think like that. This is the only way we can change this society, both sides.

Your tattoo on your arm arouses my curiosity.

[r] Yes.

Do you have it here or in Istanbul?

I had everything done in Istanbul. I learned tattooing, I wanted to learn. When I was 17 I had it done. The picture is from Belkin Elvan, very important. I show it to the camera.

[i] Yes, show it into the camera.

[r] Here.

[i] Who’s Berkin Elvan, tell us?

This is very important for us because it has become a symbol. Belkin Elvan is an Alevi child, This child is like many others, while the Gezpark protests went on the street, basically he uses his democratic right, but in Turkey going on the street does not mean democratic right, but on the contrary for the Turkish state it is a terrorist act this child is shot by a policeman on the Okmeydan (place name in Istanbul) and the child dies. He’s in a coma for about 40 days, I can’t remember exactly, he’s in a coma for 40 days. And then this child dies. Of course every killed person is a symbol for us, but because he was publicly shot by the police, this reaction triggered a great response. There are publicly available camera images. It is of Alevi origin. It is very interesting that 12 people are killed in the actions of the Gezipark and 11 of them are Alevi Kurds.

i] How old was this child?

This child was 12 when he died, if I remember correctly. He was 12 years old and very young, between 12 / 13 years old.

[i] When did the Gezi actions begin? And what were the Gezi events about?

r] The Gezi action started in 2013, in which month it started I don’t remember exactly.

[i] In June.

[r] In June. In fact, it began through a tree, a forest. People were fed up and it was also an opportunity. The state wanted to destroy half of the forest in Taksim Park and erect a building there, then I remember pictures of HDP deputies like Sirri Süreyya Önder. Members of parties like the HDP, CHP and TKP were against it. Communist Party of Turkey But the Democratic Party of Peoples (HDP) plays the biggest role. I can say so. They stood in front of the bulldozers, some trees were torn down. You can’t do that, it’s a massacre of nature. This is important information for Germany, because Germany’s nature is wonderful and protected. People who think like us also have respect for nature. So it began, In some ways, the reaction of people grew. So that was the occasion, the forest, the tree. Then the state used violence again. They used tear gas to drive people away. Somehow it grew like an avalanche. Because, as I said, the people were fed up. Either we, the crowd, would have overthrew the government, would have gone into the streets, or the pressure would have gone on. Then everyone came out, I had the impression that 60% of the people were there, almost half of Istanbul was on the streets. In metropolises like Ankara, İzmir and Bursa it was the same. That’s because we don’t want the government system and the government. A tree triggered everything.

The Gezi Park protests brought everyone together, the Kurds with Kemalists and nationalists with democrats.

In any case. Islamists, writers and illustrators, liberals, Islamists, anti-capitalist Muslims, everyone was there. All oppositionists who were against the government, except the nationalists and those close to the government, were all there, yet despite this it could not be prevented. Why not?

People have the instinct of life as we all do. There is also an instinct of resistance that we have used. Every person of them. Some of them used many, the others went against the state with sticks and stones to fight. Some just screamed, some artists did songs, I also did a song for the park. Some wrote poems especially for the day, some expressed themselves through graffiti, everyone did something but as I said before, The state used disproportionate violence so people died. After an intense week of resistance, people noticed that it was not going to happen, people were dying. Then came the news, Berkin Elvan is hit in the head. Ali Ismail Korkmaz was beaten up on the street with him, he was beaten to death like no human should treat you. Therefore the child died of a cerebral hemorrhage. Ethem Sarisülük was shot in the head by the police on the street, people heard that and it was deliberately published in the press. Do that people got scared, We will also die, they will not leave. People withdrew into their corners and now after these days in Gezi Park Turkey became a more terrible regime, in my opinion. It is governed by an incredible repressive regime. It is incredibly oppressive. I had Berkin Elvan tattoo done 7 months after the protest in Gezi Park and I hid it. Of course I don’t regret having had it done, but a few times some people on the street saw it, they called me a terrorist. I just walked away where I was. Because the man who rules Turkey, he called Berkin Elvan’s mother a terrorist, an atheist and asked the question, why did you put marbles in the grave of your child? He encouraged at a rally to booze the mother Berkin Elvan, yuuh all said to the mother of a deceased child. There is such hostility in Turkey. I always hid my arm because I was afraid, because I want life, because I have a life instinct, but it is hard to live there. It is a political thing. That is why I always covered it up. I am free now, I can walk openly on the street.

The Gezi protests were also accompanied by solidarity demonstrations in Bochum. I remember well because I was there. I wanted to ask you if you met people here who showed solidarity at that time? There are still different actions.

I saw people showing solidarity, I still see people coming from Turkey and I know some of them. Even during the protests in Gezi Park, we didn’t see each other there, but I met people here with whom we were practically side by side, who came from Turkey, I got to know some of them.

i] After the protests of Gezi Park, the story of the liquid manureists came out,

Yes From both sides, people like you had to leave the country.

Right People had to flee from a place like Istanbul, whereas in the 90s people from Kurdistan were glowing, now people from Turkish Meropols are coming.

That’s right,

[i] From izmir and Adana

[r] Very accurate

[i] For example from Istanbul. Can you tell us something about what life was like and what difficulty did you encounter?

They raised a very important point. When I say I come from Istanbul, everyone says you come from a modern city. a metropolis, everything is great, all possibilities are open to you. People start talking, but the reality is quite different, Istanbul is a big city. There are many suburbs. There are many ghettos. It’s overcrowded. The more Islamic the government becomes and the more Islamic pressure grows, this fascism spread everywhere. not only Islam, but the right Islam. and it affected all metropolises. Not only in Kurdistan, as you said, Istanbul, Izmir People everywhere felt under pressure. This is a situation that we can not solve, With my tattoo for example, I have in no metropolis, with this opinion, with this statement, it is impossible for me to work anywhere. There is no way, as I said, I always had to cover it up. And as an Alevite, for example, I live out the Alevi culture. In fact, I lost my religious faith, and for years I couldn’t say that a metropolis means skyscrapers to me. It’s a business opportunity, but if you have a left attitude and want to show it, no matter where you live, in Izmir, in Istanbul, no matter where you live, eventually you come here and people come, I think Europe sees it. As many as I see come from Istanbul at the moment, also from Izmir. The most important thing is whether you can live according to your convictions,

Of course it’s very interesting, I notice that journalists and academics who worked with the government praised the government every day and have to leave these days.

Yes, I think they’re explaining their reasons now, why they’re doing this, you’re changing your decisions, aren’t you? They went arm in arm with the Gülen movement for years. When the government identified them as traitors, Gülerists came here and Erdoğan supporters stayed there. It’s a very complicated event that we don’t understand either, but people like us have kept their ideals high. It’s been that way for years. We have stood against both sides. So nothing changes for us, we always want our freedom. This can happen to someone from a metropolis, it can happen in Kurdistan. I think the way of thinking is important. Where you live is crucial, within the borders of Turkey it can lead to problems.

i] You still have a tattoo. It has the shape of a ring, when did you have it done? What does it mean?


Yes, as I said, we come from a politically active family. We had posters of Yılmaz Güney and Ernesto Che Guara on the walls. Later we removed the posters. I had it done for the prisoners at death fast. In memory of the political prisoners who committed the crime “forbidden thoughts” It is for me the most absurd crime in the world, the crime of thoughts. You don’t kill anyone, people who wouldn’t even hurt an ant are locked up just because of their thoughts. Already the history of Turkey is dark. For the people who are fasting to death, for them I had it done: a barbed wire. Because they could not be rescued, it is supposed to represent the barbed wire around the prison. But questions after that I answer differently, because I don’t trust them. It has no meaning, I say it is a wire, in fact it has a meaning, that is, it represents captivity,

[i] I guess there’s no problems here?

[r] I have never experienced a problem here. Turkish nasionalists living here ask when they see it, “Who was it? Because he was a very well-known child in Turkey. I answer Berkin Elvan. For example, they end the conversation, I have often seen that. On that day they talk to you, on the next day they don’t talk to you anymore. I have had such experiences. They are people who nevertheless defend Turkey. That is very interesting.

I put it this way: you come from Turkey. You were forced to leave Turkey because of political pressure.

[r] I had to come

[i] Now there is a dictatorial regime with a dictator. And you come here, to the centre of Europe. Here you will meet people who were born and raised here, who enjoyed education here and who grow up with the German dictatorial past, which has been the subject of discussion for about 80 years. And these people, who go to school here, grow up with this history, these people feel connected with a dictator ruling in Turkey, defend him, support him, are against such people as you.

I think it only has to do with family education, because education in Germany is good. I know that the bad and dirty history is shown in German schools. These children are bleached into their families: you are a Turk. And you remain a Turk. Homeland, nation, Sakarya, nationalism is injected into their brains. These children cannot leave this world of thoughts, they grow up and always feel strange. I have observed this, and these children always experience an identity crisis, they are neither German nor Turkish. They are in between. I think it’s all because of the family, I know many families who came here as workers. I have had strange experiences. For example, when I fetched a mobile phone with my sister, the boy who worked there was a Turk, he helped us. He asked me “Why did you come here? What are you doing here? You have left a beautiful home. He asked me such a friendly but also ridiculous question. I answered, a good life was not possible there, that’s why I came. How can you say wowas? And he got angry. Why are you here? I suppose Germans also asked that question. If you don’t like it here, I actually came here unwillingly, because I have a house there, my mother, my father, our situation is not bad. Despite everything I came here, so there is a reason why I am here. Why, although you were born here and enjoyed the education, you probably even know English. Our education is so bad that only a few young people speak English. So if you find it so bad here, you can still speak Turkish, why don’t you go back? I replied. My work is here, I can’t leave it, otherwise I would return. Always the same lie, it is a lie. I will return, but he does not return. Before this conversation began, my sister was there, a German friend hugged him and asked: “Hey Kummpel, how geht´s ?” well, courageously, he answered, then when the German ‘friend’ was gone, the conversation went on like this: he said openly to us that he did not like these Germans. I suppose he assumed that we were his opinion. Then a discussion began. You just hugged the man, why do you pretend? They are such hypocrites, he stated. Where do you come from now? From Istanbul. Why did you come? That’s how it started, very interesting.

[i] That’s right, but you gave him a good answer. There are many examples of this kind. They constantly offered Paradis to fight for the fatherland, there never was such an Erdogan. If there never was, why are you here? if here you like? Why do you live together with a people that you do not like? That is double standards. Nothing else. In my opinion.

i] Tell something about your family? Is your whole family in Istanbul? How many brothers and sisters do you have?

We are two siblings. My sister is 6 years older than me, Güler is her name. My father is Ali Hüseyin Bulgurcu, my mother is Zeynep Bulgurcu, my father is a real Alevi Kurd, my mother has a little mixture, her father is Turkish, her mother is Kurdish. My father is at the age of 11 years, due to the difficult living conditions and opportunities at work they get to know each other and get married. They bought land, built their own home, by their own efforts. My father is a worker, my mother also became a worker later. Because we grew up in the city, we didn’t have to learn to steal. We have always been workers, slaves Another term for workers in Turkey is slave.

i] But you do play ( More meaning of play: steal )

That’s what I played. I only play this instrument, that’s all we steal. As workers they could give my sister about two years to study. My sister came to Germany with the help of two Germans. They got to know each other during grammar school. She came to Germany, met very good people. We still see them. As I said, my family consists of workers. My mother is a pensioner from a hospital. My father is still working, he still has two or three years until retirement. Despite the difficult conditions, they raised us. But as I said, the real reason for emigration is that living in Kürdistan was not possible. If they emigrated involuntarily to Istanbul.

i] Where do your parents live in Istanbul?

In Istanbul, Sultangazi, the neighbourhood of the Gazi district. A district with a predominantly Alevi population of Kurdish origin, a politically influenced district. There are many leftist organisations there. Like the districts Okmeydani, Sarigazi. But unfortunately there is no trace of it lately. because they have killed people in public. At the moment many associations were closed, I also there actively. I distributed flyers and Bröjure and took part in the activities. There are also some “illegally” designated organisations. but actually very legal, in my opinion. Unfortunately we lived in the surroundings of the district Gazi. My family still lives there.

i] How was your childhood? Tell me something about your childhood?

My childhood was bad when I think about it. As a Kurd, Alevite, I always had problems. As an adult, I realized that, because as a child you see something different and forget what you experienced. But little by little you remember. In the fifth grade, I will never forget that, we were in religion and ethics classes, forced classes. Turkey is certainly beautiful for Europeans because of its geography. Istanbul is a big metropolis, there is nothing constricting about it. But it is not like that. We were in religious education, whether there is Alevite in the classroom asked the teacher. I forgot to raise my hand. Four children from the class registered. Such a question, such discrimination, exists in the underdeveloped countries of the world. I am talking about five years ago. I was in fifth grade, a small child. I was able to get in touch and profess to be an Alevite. For example. So, what a depression it has caused in me, I understand only now. That was very bad. Because of this I felt that my educational life was bad from the 5th grade on, because of the religious education. My father is close to disbelief, he prefers the way of life and the culture of the Alevis, but he does not deal much with the subject of religion. That’s how we grew up. Make your own choice, but attach importance to education and school. He has always told us not to mix religion with anything else. But the religious course in school was obligatory. We felt in a dilemma. Especially me. They teach you to pray, if you can’t pray it and don’t get the grade, you won’t be transferred. and I know the prayer, although I don’t want it now. It is burned into my brain. As an atheist I would rather know other beautiful phrases instead of prayers. Therefore my educational life went badly. I was kicked out of high school for political reasons. My criticism of the political and educational system led to me being thrown out. I graduated without going to school… I suspect that here it is called the Ferngymnasium. I have completed an external education,

[i] Evening school

I finished evening high school, I didn’t go on in Turkey because most of the teachers were nationalistic. The teachers became directors. That had an effect on us. For example, the teachers were always late when we asked: Where were you? I was praying, I’m sorry, he said. 20 minutes late. There is such an understanding of education. If you are rich in Turkey, you can visit a college. You learn foreign languages, not like in Germany. You can go abroad, you don’t have to stay in districts like Gazi like we do. You can be as good as that, but you still get a miserable education. The system gives you the instructions: You are a working-class child, it is clear where you were born and where you grew up, that is the education you deserve! enough for you.

i] How were the children dealing with it?

[r] Good question. As I mentioned, I couldn’t even say that I am Alevite. When I was in 5th/6th grade, I told my family about it. They encouraged me to say it. When I started saying it like this in 6th/7th grade, there were of course times when I didn’t have any friends in class. Because he was deeply Sunitian. He made statements like, “You can’t eat the bread of Alevis. There are very ugly ITAM against Alevis. The same against Kurds, because I am both, sometimes two. In Turkey you are at the same time Kurd and Alevite, you are not allowed to eat the meat, the bread of the Alevis. Be careful with Kurds, say nationalist families, for example, so I didn’t have many friends. As I said, we were brought up to say what you think. Stand by yourself. That’s why I had few close friends. It’s interesting: I lived in Istanbul until I was 25 and I couldn’t tell my best friend that I was an atheist. We grew up together because he is a believer. I know he won’t talk to me if I tell him. So much nonsense, problems due to origin and the like. You go down the street, you go into a café. In our district Gazi there is no longer the old political power, now there are policemen everywhere, Toma (water cannon vehicles). They deliberately let religious people move there. Religious building contractors built new houses there, and the apartments were specifically allocated. People, who are very religious, you sit to the example somewhere it comes to complaints about one. They say, why they are here, surely red flags hang up here. Such pressure is being built up, even in our district. I know this pressure from childhood: as Alevite, Kurd The question: where do you come from? I come from Malatya. From where exactly? From Arguvan. Ah, is there an Alevitism (with them)? Thousands of times this question has been asked. What is the purpose of this question? Too often. I would have to concentrate so that all situations would come to my mind and there would be no end. The battery would drain. Such an event that everyone knows, I have experienced it, very small pieces

[i] You mentioned the music studio. When did you start there?

Two years after graduating from high school, I began to study sound engineering music production. Academy for modern music in Taksim Elmadag Street. When I started studying, end of 2014, beginning of 2015 I found a job in a studio. Music studio in Florien, During my time in Turkey I worked together with many celebrities. I have hardly any photos with them, because I don’t like such things. But also there was a political thinking that followed us all the time. It was always problematic to be Alevite or infidel. I couldn’t say it there. Bülent Ersoy (Türkei´s Diva) came by. She is a transsexual woman. At the same time, according to her own statements, she is very religious. A contradictory person, how could I tell her. In conversation she asks: Where did you come from? In Turkey you are always asked that. wW are you coming from? Aha! At Ramadan they ask you, even in the studio, if you fast. A working area, where important people come, a music studio, celebrities come there. They also ask you these questions and I feel very cramped for a while. I wanted to leave on the one hand, on the other hand I had my work. I discussed/kicked with people, I was psychologically finished. I was forced to discuss faith all the time. I said: you talk about Allah all the time, but you do everything imaginable. I got into discussions all the time. Then they fired me. They fired me. Actually, I wasn’t fired, but I wasn’t called to work anymore either. They said we don’t need you. That’s how it came. I had put it in my head, so I discussed it with everyone. I’m leaving here, I said.

[i] What did you do in this studio?

[r] I worked there as a tontekniker. Yes, I worked as a sound engineer, I’m the man who works on the artists’ voices on the computer in the studio. Tonteckniker, I’m thinking about doing the same thing here in the future. Opening a music studio. I want to publish songs with people, in addition.

Good thing, you mentioned about celebrities: Who were these celebrities? I have arranged three pieces by the son of Ibrahim Tatlises… Ido the son of the man who calls himself Ibrahim Tatlises. Mustafa Ceceli, the elite of celebrities in Turkey. They have no special meaning for us, but they have a high status in the Turkish media. Mustafa Ceceli, Ido, Yilmaz Morgül Bülent Ersoy, Niran Ünsal, So I worked with a lot of people. I worked on their songs. I did the mixes. I was able to save some money that way.

When you look at the lives of these celebrities, they are not people who have nothing to do with Religon, Allah.

[r] No nothing. Why do they interfere with your faith? Why do they question your attitude?

You have no answer to this question. If we could get a reasonable answer to this question, you could say okay, but they have no logical explanation. There is no answer to the question, but there is the question but no answer, so no answer. For example Irem Ünsal she offered me a job in his studio Kavacik. When I was there, I saw amazing posters on the walls, nude photos so to speak. Photos in bikinis naked In today’s reign, this artist, a famous person, has veiled herself to be successful. Religion abuse, we say. She suddenly veils herself and shows the public that she is a real Muslim. I went to work with her, but I could only hold out for 3 days. I couldn’t stay anywhere because of my opinion. In Turkey. She organizes cocaine and other excessive parties, there is everything. She veils to achieve her own goals, nothing more but if you would tell her to discover the working relationship and you have to listen to how you dare to question her religiosity. It is forbidden to tell the truth in Turkey. 100% forbidden. The truth is: Such a bad life they lead. That is why I could not come to terms with it. On the grounds that I have parents. Who are these people? These againlichen humans I did not remain there. I would go crazy in Turkey. How long were you working in the studio? 3-4 days at the most. The fourth day I couldn’t even work full time. I took my money, said I didn’t want to and left. As I said before, at that time I was at the end. It was clear: I have nothing more to do in Turkey. I understood that. Even people educated according to your standards even became supporters of the government in order to be able to live. It has changed. If you want to lead a reasonably pleasant life in Turkey, you have to approach the state. Under no circumstances must you betray your attitude.

Couldn’t you work with other opposition artists? There were opportunities, they came here too. The reality in Turkey is that even the most oppositional person as an artist would not address these issues. Everything is kept secret. I couldn’t work with them so often. As I said, they concentrate on their work and their wages and try to live their lives without giving their opinion great price. They too are under pressure. Because they have to make a living like that. If you insist on your opinion, they will certainly lose their job. Many artists are denied rooms. Some arrests were made at municipal events or concerts. Baris Atay, an actor, was arrested several times. It’s hard. Honestly, I had hardly any opportunities to work with them.

i] Since how many years of your life have you been playing Saz?

[r] Actually only for 2-3 years.

[i] Then you started only recently?

[r] I mean playing properly. It always hangs on the wall with us, I’ve played it from time to time. At home on the wall.

[i] As a symbol?

Symbolic, but you also jingle at it. My grandfather also played it. That’s why

[i] Is there anyone in your family besides you?

My sister. She plays Def and sings. She sings Kurmanci and Zazaic. Sometimes Turkish, sometimes Arabic. In all languages. Sometimes I play and she sings. Sometimes she sings and plays herself. My sister is also a musician.

i] You perform together here?

Yes, in Bochum we performed 3 to 6 times.

Do both of them perform?

[r] Yes, just the two of us.

Both of you alone.

[r] Yes, like a group. We founded ourselves as a sibling group.

[i] So you play?

[r] Yes, and she sings and plays her dev.

[i] Good.

What are your plans for the future?

When I reach my sister’s linguistic level, I will be able to communicate with more people. And there is this nice thing in Germany, if you want to do a project the state supports you. It helps you so to speak. Offers you rooms. We have the following project in mind: We want to make a compilation and travel Germany. With pieces that include the Turkish, Kurdish, Arabic language. I will play, she will sing. At the same time we plan to be politically active. My sister will explain and play the origin of the painfully emotional songs. We also have such a project in mind. I will play a piece, she will perform. When it is over I will explain the origin of the song. That’s the kind of project we have in mind. And travel to Germany.

[i] You have a nice plan. It’s different. Outside the usual.


In my opinion, being overarching is an important thing. It’s like every song has its own beauty in the language of origin.

[r] Yes.

[i] A Kurdish song in Kurdish, a poor song in Armenian


i] It is indeed so that others can understand it, the meaning, the content should be translated into German. I think it will be beautiful.

That’s what we intend to do.

i] Un it should not be left at that, but also archived.

We couldn’t even think of this page. Because we don’t know howl about archiving, but maybe through you…

In my opinion one could do something like that: One could do the following In Germany or Europe you can apply for capital or support, e.g. from the cultural office. From the Department of Culture. Or from local authorities. You can present your project as cross-cultural at municipal events.

[i] That’s right. We actually think about it. But. It’s still a project project. I have to finish my tasks first. Language and others.

Let’s talk a little bit about your sister who lives here, artist is. She recently got married.

[r] For two years.

[i] She got married. She married a German friend.

[r] Yes.

How was it received by the family?

[i] Yes.

[r] How did you take it? What reactions came.

[i] As I said, we were raised openly. There is a saying: for us man is important. For us, religion is origin is not important at all. Is it a good person? My father didn’t say anything against it. Normally in Turkey this is seen as a catastrophe for the woman’s side. We, my father said: be good to my daughter she loves that is enough for us. Also I see it not badly that he is a German. We have no problems. It is quite normal. There are some unfamiliar cultural differences. And that’s normal. She is a bit more independent, stands on her own feet, that’s how she was brought up. There are no problems for us that my sister loves a German. Ready, she loves him. We have received it positively. There is nothing bad about it.

[i] What is home for you?

[r] What is home?

[i] Home.

[r] (laughs) Sorry I’m laughing. I don’t have feelings of home. Has been lost, there is not. Where I can live in freedom is my home. I think. If I have to say something to home, I can say it: Where I can live freely is my country. It would have been Kurdistan. But unfortunately there is no such place, as you know. Now I live in Germany. Unfortunately, the home concept is splendid, also because of the assimilation in Turkey. I can’t speak Kurdish, that’s very painful. So that we are not excluded even more, our family did not teach it to us. We could not learn it. In contrast, my Turkish is very good. I don’t speak Kurdish, I understand it a little. Home is for me… I could never feel this construct. I don’t know this feeling.

What is it like when we call it identity? As identity, then.

[i] Identity? That I am Kurd and Alevite, I have always said with pride, but first and foremost human. Our origin is important, of course, but that doesn’t mean that as a Kurd I deny another nation. I am Kurd and Alevite, I am open to all people. and I love all people. My identity: I am an Alevi Kurd. After that: I am a human being That’s how I always formulated it.

i] How do you use your free time?

In my spare time I do a lot. Most of the time I learn German. In between I play Baglama. Sometimes I go to the caravan site. Once a week or so. When I’m free. Once a week I take pictures on high hikes. On weddings here in Germany. I spend my free time like this. Of course I meet friends. I have many German friends. Although I am new, I have many German friends. Both girlfriends and friends. We sit together, go to events. There are many events here where we participate. It is beautiful. It is in German. Music, taking photos once a week. from and to development This is how I spend my free time.

i] You mentioned German friends. With them you have no problems, you say.

[r] None at all. Not at all.

[r] I mean the early days. When you experienced the German. How did you feel about the German language? That was a difficult thing. Honestly, I thought I wouldn’t be able to learn it. I don’t know, maybe everyone feels that way. The beginning is difficult, it has some difficult rules. It was very difficult. Unbelievably difficult. That’s why I had it hard. Especially to build up a basis. A1 and A2 levels are very difficult for me.

[i] How is it now?

[r] Now it’s good- But when I’m tired, I realize I can’t talk. I wondered if I was forgetting what I had learned. I was told that I don’t forget, it’s a result of fatigue. When you are tired, you have difficulties even in your own language. At the moment my German is good. As I said, when I sit with German friends, I can talk. What I want to express. I can write texts on a certain topic. Probably I have brought my German to a good C1 level within a short time.

Is there a difference when you compare your free time in Istanbul and here? What is the difference?

In Istanbul my free time was completely empty. I couldn’t fill it. ää Because, as I said, I kept asking myself what to do. With questions about perspectives, full of questions, I spent my free time thinking. There were no events. Just thinking. With questions about: how can I go anywhere, how can I change this life. In contrast, I use my free time here by working on a topic, learning, meeting people, discussing with them. I am free. I play music. Mine spare time is full. With beautiful full. What has strained me, has finished me, how can I say: there is no pressure on me, my mental condition confusing here.

[i] So: How would you like to see the

The ones living in Bochum?

i] And compare the people living in Istanbul/Turkey.


A huge difference, I can say. It’s like this: There’s no reason, but in the streets there’s violence, blackmail, injuries, insults. Strong smells. I’ve often said that, but in fact I might have gotten into a scream once. In Istanbul one can die before your eyes. They can stab each other in peace, one can be kidnapped, very easily, we often notice that. Shooting. We had already got used to it, while we were drinking tea on the balcony we heard shots. Tak, tak, tak, pat, pat, pat, pat küt, küt I came from such a life to such a life. For me there is a huge difference to life in Bochum.

Have you ever been in love?

[i] I was in love. That was bad, too. You hit the mark again. The reason for the failure of my first relationship was similar again. I was very much in love, thinking about marrying her. I was 22 years old when we separated. Her father found out from us that we had been dating for two years. As I said, we are open people. What her profession is, where she comes from, plays a role. My father told her my daughter. She also called my daughter daughter. She could stay with us. We have nothing conservative. Her father found out about us. After two years. She had to tell him everything. We wanted to get engaged. That was our plan. She told him where we came from. Who we are. Her father called me, threatened me He demanded that I leave his daughter. My first love. Of course I was upset. I am young, impulsive, have gone mad. I scolded him, I called him another day. I said: I would like to talk to you. I apologized. I was angry. What is the reason, I asked him. They demand the separation, but why. I actually knew why. Alevite, being Kurdish was the reason. He replied: “If you try so hard, you will never be the right one in my eyes, it won’t work. He said so and separated us. That’s how my first love ended.

i] How did it begin?

[r] That get to know the girl? In Turkey there is a competition program “Yeteneksiniz”. I took part in it. And I even got quite far. She was a spectator. That’s how we got to know each other.

[i] With what talent did you participate?

[r] I played rap back then. I am very versatile. I also released a rap piece to the Gezi protests. It attracted a lot of attention. That’s also the reason why I have fears.

If it’s not very long, you’re welcome to perform it. As far as I can remember, I can recite the words. “If you don’t resist, the state will kill you with a spoonful of water” “If you don’t believe, look for yourself” That’s how it starts. Refrain: “Shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot, let’s watch” “Shoot pepper spray” “Take out your hull (?)” “Drop your baton” “Who’s the teenager” It’s directed against the policemen.

[i] It’s provocative.

It’s provocative already. Towards the end I even used bad words against the state. That’s why I’m afraid. But it is still one of my favourite songs.


How did your girlfriend react to that?

[i] She was sad. For her, too, it wasn’t the origin that mattered. She was very sad. It didn’t work out. She even thought about leaving.

Where did she come from?

[i] From Balikesir/Bandirma Strict Nationalists. MHP (Turkish Nationalist Party). It went to pieces. Interestingly, the father is AES (?). That he drinks a lot. But at the same time he is religious. He drinks a lot. And at the same time he is religious. He is …, a Muslim. How can you consider an Alevite, he asked. He built it up under very extreme pressure. It didn’t work.

[i] It was your first love?

It was my first love.

Was there another love?

My second love was an Iranian Kurd? The story was also interesting. She comes from a Shiite religious family. I met her just before I came here. I had made the decision to go to Germany.

Did you meet in Istanbul?

In Istanbul Taksim. She came as a tourist. My friend knows her brother. My friend invited me to drink tea. There was a spark between us. She went back to Iran. Came to Istanbul again because of me. It fell into the time when everything became too much for me. Her family was very strict. Iran is ruled by the Islamic regime. Sometimes I can’t remember Turkish.

[i] The regime.

The regime. That’s why we had arguments. But they loved us very much. Although we loved each other very much, I spoke back to her. You are so oppressive that we can be together, you have to change a bit. She came from an incredibly wealthy family. She didn’t take the bus in her life. She took a taxi or a private car. I had the opposite. There was such an effect between us. I come from an opposite place. Girl comes from a very rich family and I am the son of a working class family but this played an important role in our association, when I told my life story she heard like a movie. She liked it. But as I said, she had many rejections. it was good to be an Alevite, she is Shiite herself. it looks a bit similar but not, in fact there is no similarity. We discussed Ali and Shia, I said she was very radical, either you change and don’t despise people of another religion, we argued more often, Our relationship didn’t work. I ended the relationship because fighting made me nervous. She was very pretty woman

[i] You’re still very young you fall in love more often

Right now I have a German girlfriend She said she loves me I love her too, let’s see I have a German girlfriend I’m talking to right now.

[i] I hope it’s a new beginning for you

[r] Let’s see

[i] Could third love be last love?

[r] So I hope so.

i] You talk about your future plans, but I see you have many plans for your future, haven’t you said yet?

Right, I’ll make 100% music. I’ll study social work, I’m sure I’ll combine both eventually, I want to help people and weekend deal with music I want to help people besides my job to bring them into society (integrate) I’ll bring people of different backgrounds together with music, in the future my first goal is that, second I want to open a music studio. later I’ll have a music company in Germany. I think of doing international business. African music and albums, Kurdish music ää because we have not done in our own language in Turkey. We could not do it because it was forbidden. I want to release Kurdish music albums There are many artists around me in Bochum,

[i] You’re lucky because Bochum is a cultural city.

I am very happy.

So [i] has a role in this, even if it’s not big.

[r] absolutely I agree yes so I will use it, there are a lot of different people here. There are musicians I know I want to make their albums and release first I slowly go to the ground horse.

[i] Do you have a dialogue with foreigners from Bochum who have the same hobby? from Latin America from Iran


[i] There are many Kurds

There are many.

i] In recent times, many Arabs have come

[r] Yes

[i] Do you have contact or a plan with them?

There is an Arab girl from Syria, Damascus. She also makes music, she sings. She knows the instrument – Baglama, which I play, I would like to do something with her. Otherwise I know some african youths who do rap. as I said, I am very diverse, I wanted to rap with them, because young people here especially listen to rap. as far as I hear and see, such projects I am doing with young people from Somali rap, with an arbic girl I sing, I have something like that, I have a girlfriend, her name is Sopfia, born in Germany and she grew up she came from Greece. The main goal is to work with them on a project. I am now doing the project with my pc. I organize different projects of people from different cultures.

i] You find yourself in a diverse and multicultural level…

I simply say that I have landed in a paradise. I don’t have to worry anymore, my only concern is to learn the German language faster so that I can do something immediately. That’s why I want to learn German and so that we can communicate smoothly and faster. Being here makes me really happy

[i] Well very nice

[r] I have also met you our brother mustafa a good brother

[i] It was a very nice interview, thank you very much for your time and patience.

[i] Please, genz geschen, I am always here.