[i] Yes, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to our Specially Unknown project. Today we are guests of Mrs. [name] and she is one of our selected [interview partners] for the group [of people] from Guinea. I am the Fiedworker, [name]. Mrs. [name] wanted us to have the interview on Fula. She is Fula and feels much more comfortable in the language. So I will have the conversation on Fula now. Okay woman [name], hello!

[r] Hello, Mr. Barry! I am glad that you are here. I have to thank you. I welcome you and am glad that you are here.

[i] Thank you.

[r] My name is [name]. I was born in Dalaba. Dalaba is a prefecture in Guinea. And I also grew up in Dalaba with my family, my mother, my father, my stepmother and my brothers. We all lived together then. We all lived under one roof.

[i] Okay. We are currently in Bochum.

[r] Yes!

[i] Let’s go back to Dalaba now.

[r] Hmm hm [affirmative].

[i] And then we crawl step by step to Bochum. Hm, no problem. I know that the path is long. Yes, the path is long, but that’s part of the story. [i?] Eh voilà, and now concerning her family, her mother and her father and all those who belong to them, such as her brothers and sisters, could you tell us something about her?

[r] Yes.

[i] [Can you] tell us something about it?

Yes, we were eleven children from the father’s side. My father was married to three women.

[i] Okay.

[r] We all ate together, slept together. There with us, you can’t tell who belongs to which mother. All of us, everyone has a mother, but you didn’t see a separation because all children were treated the same. My father treated us all equally.

[i] So, in spite of polygamy, all of you were treated equally?

[r] Yes. Regarding polygamy, I can’t say who my father would have loved more. There certainly are. But he loves us all. He makes no difference, we are all his children.

[i] Does anyone have you all […]?

[r] We were all treated like the natural children of a couple. Although each of us has his own mother, we were all treated equally.

[i] As you said before, did you all live together, did you live for rent or in your own home? Do you have a garden? Did you live in the city or [in the village]? What was it like?

[r] Yes, we lived in our own home. My father built the house. We have a garden there. We also lived in the city and near the mosque, in the middle of the city.

[i] Aha.

[r] And sand was mined behind us.

[i] Okay, today, where does your family live? If today you are asked about the whereabouts of your family, what could you tell us?

[r] If I were asked where my family is today, I would answer, here in Bochum. My family lives here because I live here today with my husband and child. Today I have a part of my family here. And the other [big] part of my family lives in Guinea.

[i] Beautiful. We stay with the family. What did your parents do for a living?

[r] My father was a merchant, he traded in Conakry. Yes, he was a retailer. He […] […] he was active in the retail trade. He sold rice. He and Alhadji Mamadou Bille Ndeele. He has also worked with Alpha Amadou Kourou. This [Alpha Amadou Kourou] is a wholesaler. My father later made a lot of loss and went broke, then he returned to Dalaba.

[i] And your mother?

[r] My mother was a saleswoman. I can tell you about my mother’s work because when we were little, my mother sold Kuuti [balls of cassava]. Balls and ginger ale [drinks]. We have experience with it, we know how to do it. And so we grew up without much money. That’s how we grew up with limited resources. Thank God we went to school like that.

[i] Okay. In a nutshell, she took care of you at home and did the housework.

[r] Yes.

[i] Did she do the housework [done] and also work for your livelihood?

[r] Yes, she supported my father in securing our livelihood. […] My father was broke and then returned to Dalaba. And my mother only had daughters. We are five girls.

[i] Okay.

[r?] Yes.

[i] Okay, now if you look back into the past when you were a child, were there any experiences that you felt were beautiful or was there anything that frightened you or saddened you? Could you tell us something about it?

[r] Yes, in my childhood we went swimming. We picked up wood [for cooking]. We were always told not to go swimming. But we always went. You had to run, you had to run because it was slippery near the river. Then we had to run and jump and it was slippery. I followed the boys. We then ran and jumped with the lead. But when my father found out later, he got angry. He was afraid away from the river.

[i] Okay.

[r] But I was always there. Me and my friends, boys and girls, played there. We also went to the place where sand was mined. We played Sato [skipping rope] there. We played Sato. We played all day.

[i] Who won then?

[r] Sometimes I won and sometimes a friend of mine won. Yes.

[i] Now, um, if you were asked about parenting, what could you tell us about it? Nowadays, when you think about it, what would you say? And if you compare your experience back then with today’s education, how do you see it?

[r] Yes, today, when I think about how strict my father was.

[i] Hm.

[r] He beat us to force us to learn. We weren’t allowed to do everything we wanted. He said we should do what he said. But I couldn’t say I was mad at him. But thank God, because without the push I wouldn’t have learned or had the discipline. Or something else, the education, their [?] It was good and corresponds to Islamic values. We can do the ritual washing before prayer and [could] learn the Koran. One also goes to the French school. At six o’clock we first went to the Koranic school and at seven o’clock you come back home for breakfast and then we went to school. Then we went to the French school. École francaise.

[i] Um, so when you got up in the morning, did you have breakfast after the Koranic school?

[r] Yes, we had breakfast in front of the [French] school. Yes, we went first to our Koran teacher. At home we put on our school uniform and then we went to school.

[i] Is there a difference in the way you learn in the Koranic school […]?

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] […] compared to the French school? How do the two types of school differ?

[r] Yes, in the Koranic school we learned the Koran. And in the [French] school it was for the future [caree[r]. One is for religion to learn how to behave according to religion. And in school you can learn something for your future.

[i] Okay, one is for moral values and the code of conduct.

[r] Yes, one [school] is for the values and the code of conduct, the other for the future.

[i] Okay, how did you experience your teachers? From your point of view today, how were the teachers for you when they were supposed to compare them?

[r] Hm, if I compare both [school types], for example our Koran teacher, he taught us to learn. He was very strict. If he reads something to you two or three times and you can’t repeat it on your own, he’ll see it as a refusal. And then you will be punished. You are asked to stand alone in the corner. You will then be asked to stand up several times and go down on your knees until you get tired. You will not be beaten, but you will be severely punished. In the [French] school we had a director who was very strict. For example, if you are late, and especially we who lived near the school, anyone who is late will be forgiven. But if we were late, we would be punished. And we had to be punished.

[i] And this was due to the fact that you lived nearby?

[r] Yes, we lived near the school. Two minutes [on foot] from the school.

[i] Okay, let’s talk about religion now, uh, about the Islamic religion. What role does religion, Islam play for you? What does Islam stand for as religion for you?

[r] Islam is a part of our culture. My parents were Muslims before I was born. And I was a Muslim from birth.

[i] Okay, if you ask them now, that was put in your cradle. If you are asked the question now […]

[r] I am free and without parents here, but I still think my religion is good. I only know this religion, and I will continue to practice it.

[i] When you speak of religion, what do you mean by that? What do you mean by that?

[r] Islam, the Muslim religion.

[i] For your basic values?

[r] Yes to my basic values.

[i] Okay, now that was the point about religion. Can you tell us something about your daily routine back then, from morning to evening?

[r] Hmm hm [affirmative].

[i] Were there experiences when you were little […]

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] […] because every child, on the evening before going to bed […]

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] What have you done with your parents, friends and friends of the same age, girlfriends?

[r] On Saturdays, for example, we sell things at the weekly market. And the night before we are busy preparing the things we want to sell. We start on Saturday, for example with balls, ginger ale, Kuuti [balls of manioc roots]. On Saturdays we are busy with the preparation and on Sundays we all go with my mother and are busy selling. At night we spent time together outside before going to sleep. Among us girls we applauded and laughed. Sometimes we watched television. “Parade” was a music show that ran on Saturdays. We watched the show “Parade”. That’s what we did. That was a lot of fun for us.

[i] I just asked the question,

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] because when children want to sleep, and especially when they are a little taller, they are read to them.

[r] Books hmm hm.

[i] Some tell short stories, fairy tales, guess fairy tales.

[r] Hmm hm, yes, with us, for example.

[i] Yes!

[r] [With us] no book was read to me. I don’t know that. All I know is that when it gets very late, funny stories are told and you fall asleep. It’s nice and nice stories are told. Then you go to sleep. But no book was read to me at that time.

[i] So you don’t know boredom. You are also a big family.

[r] Yes, if, for example, there were [only?] one or two children, they would read something to you before you go to sleep. But if they’re over ten in number, there won’t be any boredom.

[i] Then you would have to read a lot of books.

[r] Then there would be many books to read.

[i] Um, let’s talk about something from when you were little.

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] From the moment you can remember, about things that have stayed in your mind.

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] So you already told me that you lived with your father and the house belongs to him, too.

[r] That’s right.

[i] Uh, the neighbors, your neighbors, what did your neighbors mean to you? What can you say about them in retrospect? How did you experience your neighbours?

[r] Hmm, in the homeland, for example, the neighbours I knew, in Dalaba, for example, they were like part of the family. If one of us [had to] do something that required a lot of work, then all the neighbours supported each other. In the event of death, for example, everyone mourns along and the neighbours are there for them. When your child gets hurt or hungry. The neighbors made sure that all the children got something to eat. You get full before your mother is home again. The children won’t [have to] wait until their own mother has cooked. When the mother who cooked last is ready, all the children can eat. We children all ate together. For example, Guinea and Germany differ in the respect.

[i] Yes!

[r] As for the neighbours. My neighbours here, for example, are nice. They are nice. They are nice to me. Only when I want to visit them, for example, do I have to ask if I can come first. I have to ring your bell first. Here in Guinea, for example, the doors are always open. If you want to visit them, you just go in. You don’t have to ring the bell. For example, if you need salt, a tomato, some rice, you could go and ask your neighbor, and you could get it. And the one who gives it to him also gives it a pleasure. But you can’t do that here. You’re insecure yourself and you don’t feel like asking anything, because you haven’t been asked or asked for anything. When you meet like this, you play, laugh and so on. You greet each other. These are small differences that I see when it comes to my neighbours.

[i] Um, if we stay with the neighbors.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] Here you have neighbours who come from [other?] places and countries. What about your home country? Are the neighbors made up of people who are members of the families, or what does it look like?

[r] No, the neighbours are not just family members. Some come from a different place.

[i] Okay.

[r] [Some] aren’t originally from Dalaba, and were [moved] there by marriage. You live there with your husbands. In Silly, for example, not only our family lives alone. There also live people who come from another place. But we all live together in one place. Hadja Mbouro, for example, comes from Tinka. We come from Ditin. Aunt Koumbourou, for example, comes from Diagissa. Mama Djoudé comes out, she comes out, she comes from Kollakoy. Well, we all come from different places. But we all lived together in one place. And now we have all become one family.

[i] We still stay with the neighbours and you know that people who live together sometimes quarrel.

[r] Hmm hm. [affirmative] [rí] If the children argued, how was it cleared up? In this case, how did one act with one another so that peace would return? Secondly, how was it dealt with when there was a dispute between you and the parents? How were the problems clarified?

[r] Hmm hm. For example, if a child did something wrong, if he did something wrong, he was beaten. You [it] was then beaten with a stick or something. If the neighbors see that the child is doing something forbidden, or you are doing something wrong, they won’t wait for your parents. They will act and beat you if necessary. They won’t hurt [you], but they will show you that you’ve done something wrong. If, for example, your father wants to punish you, there have been people here who my father has a lot of respect for. And when they intervened for me, he didn’t do anything, and when it happened, and he wanted to punish me, I went to that person. My grandfather for example, Alhadji Samba Diallo, I went down to my grandfather to seek shelter. Sometimes it was with Mrs. Hadja Bourou, one of our neighbors. Her name is Hadja Bourou. She is a [?] Louda and comes from Tinka, Dalaba. No matter what problem there was, if it was so far that I or someone else sought shelter with her for example, then my father did not punish them any more.

[i] You mean to say that your father forgives the person he actually wanted to punish?

[r] Yes, if you were ready to go to Hadja Bourou, he won’t punish you anymore. He will no longer punish you out of respect for the woman. I also had an aunt, if she was there, no matter what we kids did, we weren’t beaten or punished because of her. My aunt doesn’t like it when you beat children. And if you do it anyway, she gets angry. For her it was always: “Children must not be beaten”. Children should become sensitive. It was like when my aunt was with us, we children tried to provoke him. We know that he would not punish us or beat us.

[i] They said they grew up in the city.

[r] Yes.

[i] Okay, now I want to hack, is there or was there Dalaba or in the surroundings where they once lived, places with which they connect something beautiful.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] Places that remind you of beautiful experiences? Or are there places that remind you of bad, frightening [moments?

[r] Okay, I think Dalaba is beautiful. I like the city of Dalaba and I especially like Syli, the place where I used to live with my family. I grew up there. That’s where I was born, that’s where I grew up. I know my way around there. I have all my friends there. We all lived there. It is beautiful with us there, we have rocks there. The rocks, through the rocks on the spot, it is especially beautiful there. There are also big fir trees with us and many people from the city go there to relax. They go there, take a seat and relax. There are the big fir trees, there is a sand quarry nearby, Kensanya also belongs to the place and many go there to swim. There is my home and I like it there. There you can do your homework. It is more pleasant there. Many people come there to relax. The place is quiet. With big fir trees, it is clean there and the nature there is simply beautiful. I like it here in Sylli.

[i] Um […] if we continue to stay in Dalaba as they have just described it, they say that Dalaba is like Switzerland, they compare Dalaba with Switzerland […].

[r] Yes, with Switzerland hmm hm. Yes, in Dalaba, the climate is like here, sometimes we have six degrees, eight degrees. It is pleasantly cool and beautiful. It is clean, there are enough vegetables, there is enough food, there are vegetables and people are active in agriculture. I could call Dalaba Switzerland. That’s what we call the city of Dalaba, Switzerland.

[i] They are not the only ones, it is said [e] [?] that [that] was when the French were there, that’s what we called Dalabe. Dalaba is a place where people go to relax.

[r] Yes, Dalaba is a popular place for tourists. There are places where people go hiking, places where visitors like to go to see many legends [?], yes.

[i] There in Dalabe there is Diagissa, Villa Sylli.

[r] Yes, there is Villa Sylli, the Hôtel Sud too.

[i] Now when we speak of the famous Villa Sylli, what is there to see? Sylli is also the sign [?] of the then governing party called PDG. That’s why this villa is called “Sylli”. Is it so right?

[r] Hm hm. Yes, that’s right. The then head of the canton lived there [Villa Syll[i]. The boss of the former canton had lived there. Inside [?] they built a house. The house is beautiful. A case [round room with thatched roof] and inside you decorated it with Bedhi. That’s how they finished it. It looked similar. It was made with Bedhi. This is what the Bedhi look like. The whole roof was made similar. The roof above. So they have woven it together, it looks nice and many go to look at it. Inside they also have old things like what the boss at the time wore on his head. His hat, his armchair, all these things can be found there.

[i] I was there myself.

[r] Ahh okay.

[i] I looked at that, too. What’s it like when you go there, are there people who tell you the story?

[r] Yes, there are guides who can tell you the story. When you get there, you should go to the Hôtel-Sud and ask. They have guides there. They will accompany you and tell you the history of the place. They will show you everything. They’ll show you what it was like back then. They will show you everything.

[i] So, if a European, a German from Bochum should go to Guinea, where should he go?

[r] My advice for someone, for a German from Bochum, who flies to Guinea, should definitely go to Dalaba. I would advise him to go to Dalaba because there you sweat less. It’s clean there, there’s plenty of food, it’s quiet, the city is very clean. Our city is a more sour city.

[i] To which area in Guinea does Dalaba belong? What area does your city belong to? Guinea is divided into viier areas. We have Lower Guinea, Central Guinea, Upper Guinea and Forest Guinea.

[r] Dalaba belongs to Central Guinea.

[i] What is Central Guinea also called?

[r] Yes, Foutah.

[i] We just talked about Foutah, you’re wearing something I don’t want to tell you myself, you can do it on your own. What do you call the dress they’re wearing right now?

[r] The dress I’m wearing right now is called “Lepi. “Lepi” from Foutah. With us, no matter what you wear as clothes, no matter how good they look, with “Lepi” it just looks better. The Fulas are idendified with it. It is seen as a piece of identity for the Fulas. It is also said that a “puto” [cap] belongs to it. Puto and Lepi.

[i] When I saw it, I thought you could talk about it.

[r] No problem, and I like that, too.

[i] Okay, now we’ve talked about the place where you grew up. We talked about Dalaba.

[r] Yes.

[i] As for the land […].

[r] Hm hm.

[i] We discussed [i] [about this]. And now, what about learning?

[r] Hm hm.

[i] Um, how did it go? Were you in school? How long did you attend school or which class did you last attend?

[r] Yes, I went to school.

[i] Okay.

[r] I was in school. I didn’t go to school for long, not to the end. But I went to school.

[i] Was there an experience, a memory that you associate with the school? In other words, what did you experience in school back then? Your experiences with people you met or things you remembered or missed today?

[r] Yes, I had many friends at school. I had friends like Mouidin, Aist […], Aissata, Tidiane, Kesso and so on. We had a group. We were all busy in school. From our group came the ten best in the class.

[i] Okay, so they were very busy in school!

[r] Yes, I was busy in school and I liked going to school. I intended to continue [school] like this in order to prepare my future better. To have a better future.

[i] Um, okay, did you have any idea what they wanted to be later? Was there a dream, something they wanted to become tomorrow [in the future]? For example, I always wanted to be a doctor. But I didn’t become one. I studied economics.

[r] Okay, I wanted to be a pilot because I liked […]. Um, I like the profession. Because not every woman can become a pilot. The profession is regarded as a male profession. But with the will you can achieve your goals. It is also not said that only men can exercise the profession. That was my dream, to become a pilot. I thought that was great. And especially if you wear the uniform. When you sit in the cockpit and fly.

[i] The uniform!

[r] Yes, the uniform, when you drive with male colleagues and you’re the only woman, I think that’s very nice.

[i] There are people who want to be pilots because you’re often between the earth and the sky. Some people can fascinate you. Was there anyone who was a pilot and inspired them? Or was there someone you call an idol and wanted to emulate? And then you say to yourself, “Later I want to become like them or him.

[r] We had a neighbour, she was a pilot. When I saw her coming, I was very happy inside. As a little girl I always dreamed of becoming like her later. I dream of becoming like her. And you fomented plans and said, “I’ll do this and that then.”

[i] With your dream […]

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] […] and the conditions to make them possible,

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] […] with the necessary education and training, was there something they wanted to become, but with the awareness that the possibilities are limited? [Something they didn’t do?] or something they failed to do? Something they [still] call a childhood dream?

[r] Yes, I wanted to become a [pilot]. But I couldn’t do that. But since I used to like braiding hair, I used to braid my girlfriends’ hair. That’s what I liked to do. It gave me a lot of pleasure. I can just braid the hair out of my own creativity. I weave my girlfriends’ hair, that’s what I like to do.

[i] Weave the hair?

[r] Yes, weaving the hair. That’s what I [still] do.

[i] Okay, can you also weave the hair [Tissage]?

[r] Yes, I can weave the hair, weave natural hair, I weave the hair of my girlfriends, too. I can also do hair extensions.

[i] I would like to stay with the subject of hair braiding.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] For example, we have a famous woman named Hadja Koumantio, who does what they call Dyubaa´nde .

[r] Hm hm.

[i] What about it?

[r] Djubaa´nde is a typical Fula hairstyle. This way of braiding your hair is very nice. It is a type of hairstyle that is called a typical Fula hairstyle.

[i] Is this type of hairstyle seen as an identity mark of the Fula?

[r] Yes, like Lepi and the cap, Putoru. And Djuba´nde is added. I had an aunt, her name is Ramatou. She is Maitre Galle’s wife. She was the only one who wore such a hairstyle.

[i] Okay.

[r] She looked very good with it.

[i] Have you ever worn one of those hairstyles yourself?

[r] No, never. You have to have longer hair. This hairstyle is braided with our own hair. You need longer hair. She had very long hair. She was almost the only one to wear that hairstyle.

[i] Okay. The number of people braiding their hair like this is getting smaller and smaller. How do you see that? The fact that fewer and fewer people wear this hairstyle makes our culture [our identification mark] less and less visible. I think the hairstyle is very beautiful. Many people associate it with beauty and pride. One rejoices with this person. But nowadays, unfortunately, we girls and women hardly wear this beautiful piece of identity.

[i] Okay.

[r] We changed our hairstyle.

[r] and […]

[i] laugh about it [?].

[i] Everything has its advantages and disadvantages

[r] Yes

[i] Ok, if we stay with the family back when you were little […]

[r] Hm hm.

[i] […] in your opinion were men and women, or boys and girls, treated equally? How do you see that?

[r] No, we have a difference between men and women. A man always has more freedom and scope than a woman. A woman has no freedom, they are always afraid for the woman. Fear that something will happen to her. For example, that the boys will brutalise her [become brutal?]. Fear of violence or rape. For fear and to protect the girl, the parents don’t let the girls go out. For the boys, for example, going out is considered unproblematic. They can go out. They are allowed to leave. The parents say: “That’s not a problem” and they add: “Girls are particularly vulnerable” With men, boys you can’t do any harm.

[i] Hm they have, as they say, a lot to say.

[r] Yes.

[i] Is there something, or do you have something you call a memento? Is there anything that they associate with or remember [through] a person, event, or [with] something? Did you bring anything for us? Something you can show us? And if there is a story connected to it, could you share it with us?

[r] Yes, for example when I have this chain.

[i] Hm hm.

[r] This chain. When I look at it, I feel like my mother is standing in front of me. This chain, my mother, and I are not together right now, but she gave me this chain.

[i] Okayl

[r] I like this necklace so much, I don’t want to wear it often. I keep it in a safe place. This chain.

[i] Okay.

[r] And this headscarf, my grandma, God bless her, my grandma gave me this headscarf.

[i] Okay.

[r] I’ve had the headscarf for a long time and I’ll keep it. I’m not wearing it, I’m keeping it. Hmm hm. This bag, I got from my sister. The bag has now been in my possession for about five or six years, respectively. I’ve had the bag for a long time. I like the bag. The bag was made by people from Forest Guinea. It’s also typical of the people from this area [Forest Guinea], and this is from Upper Guinea.

[i] Okay, let’s stay in Guinea.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] Nowadays, you see a lot of things.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] How the situation is there. How would you describe the situation? If you now look back at the past, if you compare the time when you were small with today, what do you find?

[r] No, it is not the same. For example, yesterday and today are not the same. If you compare the political situation with today, for example, it is not the same. The situation is not the same at all. At that time people were much more afraid for a woman than they are today. The need to protect a woman was greater then than it is now. In comparison [to today] women were not beaten, not insulted. Children were not beaten and they did not kill anyone. But now the situation in Guinea has changed. If the women leave, they will be killed. People are denied the right to demonstrate. You don’t have […] as a woman you have no [right] to speak, to speak. You can’t say anything. You should accept everything, you should listen, you should always adapt. For example, when I look at what’s happening in Guinea, how to kill young people, it hurts, it hurts. It is hard, it hurts because they are innocent. They do not know what politics is. We all do not know what politics is. Politics is for politicians. The fact that the young people go out and get killed because of it, the women get raped, mothers get beaten up and when a woman cooks something she gets what’s in the pot thrown on the floor. For example, they beat eight-year-old or ten-year-old children together. Or they take the children with them and put them in prison. I don’t like that. That hurts me inside. That makes me sad. Even if I am not personally affected, one feels with those affected. Even if they are not family members, it is enough to say that they come from Guinea. I regard you all as my family. It hurts, it is hard for me. For example, when I see it here, how to deal with children, how to caress them, how to calm them down, how to deal with women here. Women are petted, asked. You cannot beat a woman, a woman has the right to express herself, a woman has the right to do anything […] When I compare this reality here with that in Guinea, I realise that there are differences. It is hard. It is sad.

[i] Thank God you’re here.

[r] Yes, that’s how it is. Nothing is impossible with God. Everything is fleeting!

[i] Yes, now you live, as they say, abroad.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] Here is Germany and you live in Germany, something has probably happened, a reason, the drop that broke the glass [barrel].

[r] Hm hm.

[i] What happened? It’s also called a motif. What happened, what led them to say to each other, now I have to leave. What happened?

[r] What happened. I left Guinea because I didn’t see any hope there. You can’t find a job after school. At the end of school, there is no one to help you find a job. You can be very good at school and after that someone else can just buy the place you want. Although you are the one who deserves it. And that person will claim all the benefits that come with it. For example, if you have good grades and another [person] has worse grades. Then the person with the worse grades can pay money to the teacher and get a good grade afterwards. One of them has earned it with his own performance and this is not appreciated accordingly. And at the end the buyer gets the place. That was one reason, secondly, I would like to have a better future. I couldn’t have a better future in Guinea. When I was there, I couldn’t imagine a better future. I wish I could have a better future. [I wish] a better future. I would have had a future in Guinea too, but what I saw here [in Germany] changed me. Here you can learn professions, go to school, what you’ve learned is earned, and it’s not about coincidences. If you are at the end of your training, then you know exactly what you have learned. And that also corresponds to reality. What you have learnt is not just theory. A practical experience is missing.

[i] Okay, these are some of the [reasons] why you left your home for your future […]?

[r] Yes, but I was also afraid that my father would force me to marry someone I didn’t want. Because that could have happened to me for sure. They will [give] you when the time comes to someone else whom you don’t want to marry. In my case, there was already someone who wanted to marry me, and he is almost as old as my father. They have caused a lot of stress and wanted him to marry me in any case. This old man. They then prepared everything, everything the tradition demanded was brought along. But I did not want him. I did not want to marry an older man. I wanted to have a younger man. I couldn’t stay there and that led to a lot of arguments and stress. I was beaten, yelled at, my mother was driven out of the house because of it and there was nothing we did not experience. But thank God, I survived everything.

[i] That’s hard. But these days, when you think, when you think about it, are you mad at someone? To what extent are you angry about that? Can you handle it? Or how do you see it? Or are they saying to themselves that this is our tradition? Because these are people with whom you grew up, and compassion must be there, right? They now wanted you to marry someone and you did not accept this decision.

[r] Yes, you are angry, because after all it’s about something you don’t want to accept. If you force children to marry, it’s a forced marriage. And if it’s about a man who’s also young, and you’re also young yourself, then that’s not a problem. But when it comes to getting married to an older man, it is difficult, you have no feeling for that person. An older man who already has two wives and you’re supposed to be the third Faru and you haven’t even reached the age of 15. You should then become the third woman of the man and you are not even 15 or 16 years old. That is hard. That is hard. That is very hard. That is very very hard. That is one of the reasons why many girls run away from there. That’s why all the girls here fled here. They don’t let us go to school, they don’t let you go to school. As soon as they see a man who is wealthy, they will give you the man to marry. Whether you like it or not, you will be forced to stay with him. If you do not accept it, they will put you under pressure and your own mother will be thrown out of the apartment.

[i] Okay, after they did that, was there support from your mother’s family?

[r] I got support from my maternal family. My maternal family, there was my aunt who said no, and she added, “If she doesn’t want it, then so be it. My father replied, “Exactly where I said, she must go and stay.” “She will go and stay there’, my father said. My aunts supported me. They then suggested that I should leave. My aunt then suggested that I can go to her. So I went to her then. Alhamdulilahi [Thank God], I stayed there, then went to Conakry. And since I arrived in Conakry, I haven’t returned to Dalaba. Except before my departure for here.

[i] Have you been in Conakry all this time? You drove from Dalaba to Conakry first. The cities vary in size.

[r] Yes, Dalaba is a prefecture, Dalaba is smaller. It would be like comparing Bochum and Berlin, for example.

[i] Yes.

[r] The capital and a prefecture are different. Conakry is very large compared to Dalaba.

[i] Like you said, Conakry is different from Dalaba.

[r] There are many things that are different there than in Dalaba, such as the people, for example the people, in Conakry there are more people than in Dalaba. And, as they say, the children, the contact with the children, places where you go, the restaurants, for example the restaurants, places that are visited. Conakry is not comparable to Dalaba. Dalaba is a small town. In Dalaba, for example, you won’t find a big basketball court where you can play. In Dalaba you will not find a comparable football stadium. For example, you will not find a swimming pool there. In Conakry, on the other hand, there are swimming pools and many restaurants. Dalaba has two big hotels, but it is not like Conakry. In Conakry we have the sea!

[i] The sea.

[r] In Conakry is the sea. You can go to the sea, there you will see the sandy beach. The […] yes the sand. You can go there and there are places where you can sit down and play. It’s just different. In comparison, Dalaba could even be called a village. […] better than where you arrived in Conakry. As a difference, I can also say that Dalaba is clean. It is cooler in Dalaba. In Dalaba we have electricity. There are no mosquitoes. But in Conakry, everything I just mentioned is in Conakry. But nevertheless it is beautiful in Conakry, more beautiful than in Dalaba. As I said, there are mosquitoes. Security leaves something to be desired and you are always afraid. Here in Dalaba, on the other hand, you can, if you like, leave your door open and sleep. No one will come to cause you grief. But in Conakry you are afraid. Even if you are on the phone, you are afraid that someone will come to you and beat you to take the phone. If they just take the phone with them, they say okay, they’re not hurt. In that case, you will say, thank God.

[i] Then you’re always afraid.

[r] Yes, you’re always afraid. It’s frightening because safety leaves a lot to be desired. Even if you’re standing next to someone and someone else comes and tries to hit you, the person next door is afraid that you’ll hurt him because he doesn’t know what the attacker still has.

[i] You had already told me about the neighbours if something happened, for example in Dalaba, if something happened to you, how the neighbours came to your aid. Is it different in Conakry compared to Dalaba, where everyone knows who the other is? What is the difference to Conakry?

[r] It’s different, in Conakry, for example, you don’t know your neighbours. In Conakry, there are walls between the neighbors, and you’re only surrounded by walls at home. You’re just at home unless you go away. Until you get to know your neighbors and build trust […] It’s different from where you were born and where you’re known. Where you know your way around is different from where you just went.

[i] What about language?

[r] The language was Soussou and I once spoke Soussou. I used to speak a little Soussou.

[i] Okay.

[r] I also understand a little Soussou.

[i] Oka. Well, integration is not a new word for you. When they were in Conakry, with the language […]

[r] Yes, I had Soussou friends there and I also spoke Soussou, but there weren’t many of them.

[i] Hm hm. You said yes, based on what you saw, regarding your future you said it was better for you to leave the place. And that also gave you more strength […].

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] […] to leave the place. That was one of the things that motivated her?

[r] Hm hm.

[i] If we stick to the subject, was there something, um […] in the time you were about to leave the country, was there something that indicated [pull facto[r] to you? Were there other things for you that frightened you?

[r] Yes, shortly before my departure I was on the one hand happy at first, but on the other hand not, because I separated from my mother, separated from my little brother. My brother [name] has a mental disability. He is known to everyone in Dalaba. They call him [name]. The separation from him was particularly painful for me. The separation from him was harder for me than the separation from my mother because we were always together. Although he was a little mentally handicapped, he liked me. We are five from my mother’s side, four, [of those] he particularly likes me. He always called me his Neene-gootoru [Sister Heart]. He always says to me, “My Neene-gooto.” And when I was on my way here from Conakry, I was happy too. Why? Because I leave a place I know and go to an unknown place. But I knew that I would find a solution here in Europe. I could have a better future here. And if I had children here with God’s help, they would have a better future than in Guinea.

[i] You just said that you knew [that?]. What was your knowledge based on? Or did it just [come] from stories?

[r] Oh no, I didn’t know, I just heard. I’ve heard, for example, that when you come here to Europe as a woman […]

[i] Hmm hm.

[r] 60 percent, how do you say that […] 60 percent hope for support. And it’s not like here. We say that man and woman should all work. All are equal. There is no priority for women. I heard then that there are certain advantages to being a woman here. You get support and, for example, if you want to go to school or simply learn something, then you get help. If you want to work, you go to work. You support everything that speaks for your own future. They support you in order to realize the project. All these things have enlightened me [me]. In addition, I had problems with my family. And the stress became more for me. Then I realized that it was better to come here.

[i] Um, when you leave a place, there can be hope.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] Is there something they originally thought, but now you look at it completely differently? Something contrary to what they had thought?

[r] Here, for example, when I was still in Guinea and only had experience in the field of “trade,” I thought of a lot of things. I thought when I got here, I’d be working immediately without any training. I thought I could set up a table here and start selling. I only needed to take a seat next to an acquaintance and start selling. And then we could sell together […]. It’s different. Here, when you are there, you first learn a profession. And for the job [you] have to learn. You can’t come here and start off like in Madina and just set up and sell your stall. You can’t do that. It’s different.

[i] It is said that here, step by step, step by step […], you have to have your own shop.

[r] There are stages here that you get to know first. When you’re at home, you don’t know what’s going on in Europe. You just say to yourself that I’m going to […] For example, if you visit someone from Dalaba, you just say I’m going to X or Y. You just go there without telling them you’re coming to visit. You just go there, and when you get there, you act like you’re at home. But you can’t do that here. Without announcing your visit beforehand. When I arrived here I thought all I had to do was meet a black person and ask her for help to help me. But the reality is different. When you arrive here, you first have to introduce yourself to the authorities. And they will tell you what to do. I thought it would be enough if you knew someone who could take care of everything for you alone. But that is not possible.

[i] Allow me to ask you the following question in this respect: Is this assumption based on what you see in the cinema or on what people tell you? Or do you just make things up like that ?

[r] If you’re there [in Guinea], it’s just an idea. When someone tells you how things are going here, you tend not to take them seriously. You don’t think the person will grant you that. But when you’re here yourself, you’ll understand and see the reality. Understand what goes, what you have to do.

[i] For us in Guinea, if you talk about Europe, what do you associate with Europe there? What do people think?

[r] For someone who lives in Guinea.

[i] Yes.

[r] Some people think that when you come here, you get money. They think of fast money. “In six months I will build a house. “I can afford a car. That’s not the reality. Those are dream thoughts. We have all had such dreams. But that remains a thought, a dream. Here you first have to learn, exert yourself and later work hard for your money. They help you step by step and look for ways to learn. They show you the tasks you can do. First you start to learn the language. Then you go to a regular school. When you’re in ninth grade, you can continue in tenth grade to get […] a degree.

[i] We call him “Brevet”.

[r] Yes, the degree is a prerequisite for vocational training. There is nothing else you can do. People here think that you can start working right away. That’s not possible in Europe. You have to learn a trade first. For example, I am now at the point where I have already completed the ninth grade. And now I want to [do] an education where you can take care of older people at the end. A nurse for the elderly.

[i] Senior nurse, Nursing.

[r] Yes, I would like to do that now.

[i] Wow, that’s good.

[r] Can I drink water?

[i] Yes, of course. There are also a lot of people who live here and have the family that, um […] It looks like pressure is being put on them. And that means that some of them don’t seriously go to school.

[r] That’s true.

[i] Is that right?

[r] That’s right. There are families when your children are here […]

[i] Hmm hm.

[r] I don’t agree with many parents in this respect. For example, when you see the son of a neighbor, they say, “The son of XY is already in Europe.” “He’s already built a house,” you don’t know what he’s doing. You don’t know how he earned the money. He may have lived here for ten years. The comparison between ten years on the one hand and one who moves [here] just two days or a week ago [_?] does not. Do you understand? I find it sad that the young people are leaving their lives in the sea. By the sea, in the Mediterranean. They say that [they?] should go to […]. No matter where you are, you can prepare your future anywhere. Unless you are oppressed. If your parents want to support you, you could also concentrate better on your future. I wouldn’t recommend anyone to take the path across the sea. With a normal visa, then it’s okay to come and strive for a better future. To strive for integration, to go to school, to be able to earn your own living later on. And not to live from the support, or to be dependent on the support of third parties. To be independent.

[i] Hmm hm. Um, if you dare here a comparison between men and women with the men and women living in the homeland, um […] draw at work […].

[r] Hm hm.

[i] And [if they] would compare the factor work and career in the world of work, what would be your assessment? How do you see that? And if you keep in mind that the people living here are supported. Under the premise that the help offered will be used.

[r] I see it as follows: The women here are good. The women here work. A woman works here like a man. No difference is made here. The women don’t tell themselves that they won’t do this or that. I cannot paint an apartment because I am a woman. The statement: I am a woman and will therefore not build a house. I am a woman, I will not do road construction work. In Guinea, for example, they say that I am a woman and will not work in mechanics.

[i] Hm hm.

[r] There is everything here. A man in Guinea, for example, gets up at six in the morning and goes to work until the evening and comes back. Sometimes he earns money and sometimes not. He makes sure that there’s always money for food. And the wife takes care of the children. And they don’t want the women to work either. A woman does not go to work. But if the woman is lucky enough to be able to work, you will support each other. But if only one goes to work, then you will work hard for a long time and it won’t be easy.

[i] In turn, this means that there will be more benefits if women are given the opportunity to share in the cost of living. This has a big advantage.

[r] Yes, for example, if you support women, or give them the opportunity to get involved in the associations, to educate themselves, to support them in their education, and in all areas. If you let the woman educate herself, that will help more than if the woman is not educated. But if a woman without education […] [If] a woman is educated, she can support herself and her husband. Because through education, you are able to help yourself. You don’t have to rely on the support of others. Without education and work you wait [and are] always dependent on the support of the man. That alone will not be enough for you. The man himself also has his goals, which he wants to achieve.

[i] If you look at Africa now, and the problems that prevail there, or let us look at Guinea […]

[r] [i?] Yes, let’s talk about Guinea. If you look at Guinea’s problems.

[r] Hm hm!

People there say to themselves that only men can do this or that. Is that a part of the problem, or is it a cause of the problem? How do you see it if this were changed in such a way that women would also be given the opportunity to work for themselves? Could this be a solution?

If, for example, women are allowed to work, it will lead to an improvement. And that would lead to a reduction in poverty. Take a look at the Madina shopping centre today. In the past there were even fewer women working in commerce there. The men did not support it. But nowadays women have their shops and work there. It is not only about the activity in the area of trade. I want women to educate themselves. And that they should be educated. So that they can work in the office and become something. So that they can offer something intellectually. And that these skills are not limited to trade. Trade is very important, trade is a beautiful thing. My wish would be for women to go to school. They should get a good education and training. They should have a better future. Supporting their husbands.

[i] A writer, I have now forgotten his name, who said that when you train a woman, “who trains a woman has trained a village”. That underlines […]

Hm hm, you say that if you teach a woman, you’ve taught 99 women. Hm hm, if only one woman is taught, it would be as if 99 women had been taught. Yes.

[i] You said earlier […]

[r] Hmm hm.

The fact that many people run away, many leave the country. They say yes, no, I assume […]

[r] Hm hm.

[i] […] that in this case, people don’t leave [without?] reason. There must be a reason.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] In your opinion, why are the people who are here […]

[r] Hm hm

[i] The people who have the opportunity or the government should take precautions to prevent people from [preventing] the risk of crossing the sea. People take the risk of drowning [on themselves] at the seaside just to come here. How do you see it?

[r] I am not going to talk about politics here because politics is not for me. But I [can] say the following about it: young people, for example, are educated. Some of them have finished their studies. They can’t find a job. They can only have breakfast if their mothers give them 5000 GNF, for example. That can also be a reason for escape. If, for example, you see your friends of the same age, how things are going with you. The thought that they are as old as you are. When you go to school to university and you finish it and the other goes to Marché Madina [Market in Conakry]. If he is more successful than yourself, then you are ashamed. You are afraid. You worry and you’re a young adult. You can’t afford 50,000 GNF. That’s five euros. You can’t afford 100,000 GNF. You can’t blame yourself. If you see clothes, you can’t afford them. Where you are there is a lot of unrest. The government shines through absence. You are afraid of being insulted. That is the reason why people run away. What I can say here, for example, if they can support people to become self-employed, to start companies, for example. Things like making investments there to give young people the opportunity to stay there. In this way one could prevent them from deciding not to go by sea. One should give the people there the opportunity to live from their own achievements. This is not about financing the families, but about being able to earn a living. That would be my request, if it were possible. If there were support for the young people to prevent them from having to choose the way across the sea. The young people need support. And so this tragic way could be stopped. After all, that is very sad. To see that makes me very sad. Yes, that makes me very sad.

[i] Your remarks correspond to reality. I am now asking you questions […]

[r] Hm hm.

[i] […] about your story. We have now reached the point where the question of how and [afte[r] leaving one’s own country is asked. The difficulties you encountered. Yes, as you yourself said, about your brother, or your younger brother.

[r] Hm hm, his name is [name].

When they were ready to leave and you were told that it was about to start.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] You said that it was hard for you to say goodbye. Could you tell us something about it? Was it more spiritual for you? How was it?

[r] That was very hard for me. I cried. I was holding my brother [name] because I like him so much. When I talk about [name], I cry because I like [name] so much. I like it, and there’s no one who can replace it in my heart. When I said goodbye to the family, I said goodbye to everyone. Everyone greeted me warmly. But when [name] greeted me, it made me very concerned. I cried inwardly and couldn’t and couldn’t stop during the journey. It often occurred to me and when I found out that he was not well, I was afraid that he would die without us meeting again. All this because I like him so much. He is [my] biological brother. I love him. He is also our youngest. He is our Benjamin. But that really affected me. I cried from the heart, thoughts [_?] and cried. Hmm hm.

[i] That doesn’t make saying goodbye easy and they really suffered from it. They didn’t have it easy either.

[r] Hmm hm, yes.

[i] There were also […]

[r] Hmm hm

[i] […] something they hadn’t taken with them?

[r] Hm hm.

[i] And what do they miss now? Or don’t you want to talk about it?

[r] No, no, we can talk about it. When I left the country, I left my mother there, my father was sick at the time. When I got my visa, I wasn’t advised to go back to Dalaba. I wanted to say goodbye to my father and also went to him. He was lying in bed. I said the following to him: “Papa, may it be God’s will that we meet again”. He is pictured here. He can be seen in the photo here. He can be seen here on my PC. That’s him. This is my father, my older sister, Mama. He is […] my father, my older sister Mama, my cousin and he is my uncle.

[i] Okay.

[r] Yes. Here is my father, in the middle is my cousin Diadia Mama, next to her my uncle. But when I found out that the […] had passed away, I was very moved. That was very difficult for me. I had heard myself from my father with the words “Papa, may it be God’s will that we meet again”. said goodbye. He himself said, “I’m sick now and I don’t think we’ll see each other again, my child.” When I think about it, my tears come. Then I am sad and cry inside.

These are difficulties that many have when they separate from the family. Did I understand correctly that their father died?

Yes, he died in 2015 when I came here.

[i] God rest his soul.

[r] Amen.

Your parents, no matter how authoritarian he is, when he dies, it’s always sad. One feels with me and my father loved me very much.

[i] With us everyone has a namesake, Who is your namesake?

[r] [laughs] um, me, my namesake’s name is [name]. She is the wife of Alhadji Ibrahima Leylegessi. We are related and she is a good friend of my mother. My namesake and is a very good friend of my mother. They are very good friends. I owe my name to her. I owe my name to her. [name]. I like my name. My namesake loves me. When I was little, she gave me gifts. She also gave me gold, which my namesake gave me. The gold is with us.

[i] Eh voilà, you told me about the difficulties you faced before your departure.

[r] Hm hm.

There were people who supported them.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] The support can be of a financial nature. Support of all kinds.

[r] Hm hm.

Can you tell us anything about it?

[r] The support was not financial because I didn’t finance it. A white man helped me come here out of compassion. That was after I told him about my situation. I told him how I lived, told him about the difficulties I faced. He supported me. Until I arrived here. [The phone rings.]

[i] Yes, could you tell us how you got here? Where they were up to here?

Yes, I didn’t come here by land, by sea, or by desert. I came here with a visa. I came all the way to France first.

[i] Hm hm.

Oh no, I flew from Guinea to Morocco and from Morocco to France.

[i] You [look?] at and […]

[r] I arrived in France and I didn’t know anybody there. That’s where the stress started for me.

[i] Hm hm.

[i] And thank God someone came to my aid. It wasn’t easy, it rained, it snowed, and I had never seen snow before. What I had on, my clothes were not suitable for snow. I was cold, very cold. I was freezing. I have at the place where […] at the station where you wait for [the bus]. I waited there for about three hours until I had someone to help me.

[i] Hm hm. Although, Although you come from Dalaba!

[r] Yes, although I come from Dalaba. It gets cold in Dalaba, but there is no snow. [laughs]. It’s not the same. It’s cold in Dalaba, but this […] is just too much. Hm hm.

[i] Okay, then you came to Germany.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] Then where did they arrive?

When I left France, I went by car, which is called BlablaCar [r].

[i] Hm hm.

[r] I drove it all the way to Dortmund. When I arrived in Dortmund, I waited an hour before I found someone to help me. Who can tell me […] or show me. Thank God I then saw a woman, it was a white woman, a white woman, but I don’t know if she was a German. I greeted her in French. And fortunately she understood French. I said to her that I was new and did not know anyone here. And I asked her for help. She then said she couldn’t do anything for me, but she probably knew where I could go and there I would get help. I then said that it would be good if [someone?] could help. I kept asking how I could get there. She then explains that I have to go to Bochum. She went on to say that I had to buy a ticket and asked if I had money. I said that I have 100 euros. I had the bill on my hand. She explained that I would not need all the money for the ticket. The ticket will cost about two euros or a little more, she explained. She bought me the ticket herself. This white woman. She bought me the ticket and I should get off in Bochum. That’s where I should get off. I took the regional train. She noticed that the next stop is Bochum. There I should get off. Arrived in Bochum, I got off the train. Then I am at the station and now I was again faced with the challenge to find someone. Then I went directly to the police station and introduced myself there. I made contact with you. I told you there that I don’t know anybody here. They then took me to the place where I had to go. Where I could make an application. That is where I made the request.

Okay, then they contacted the police even though they came from another country, Guinea,

[r] Hm hm.

Did you have to overcome yourself to go to the police? Or was that out of necessity? Or is it because the policemen here are different?

[r] I knew that the policemen here were different from us. Here they don’t get beaten, they don’t insult, on the contrary, they help you. They come to you, they help you. And they ask you questions and take you where you need to go. In Guinea I would not have dared to go to the police. Because when they see me, they think I did something to you. They won’t even look at me. They will not look at me. And there will be no talk of support.

When the police from Guinea hear that, they will say that the police here praise. [?]

[r] If the Guinean policemen hear it, they will find that I was telling the truth. Even if they’re standing in front of me, they’ll say they don’t support anyone. They don’t help anyone. They’re not helping the population. Hmm hm, even if they’re standing in front of me, I’ll say it. I will not be afraid to say that.

You came here to Germany.

[r] Yes.

If you’re new somewhere, you have what you call the first impression. The first impression.

[r] Hmm hm.

What was your first impression when you arrived in Europe? First of all in Europe.

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] And then in Germany, Dortmund and Bochum. What was your first impression? What did you have in mind?

[r] When I arrived here, when I looked at the city, I looked at [the city?], then I said to myself that [this] here belongs to Europe. The cleanliness, beautiful houses, the train. At first I didn’t see a taxi. Only later did I see that there are taxis here, too. There are nice trains here, there are no blackouts. In the beginning I tried to recharge my phone several times. Until one day one of the carers approached me, they asked me why I constantly recharge my mobile phone. I explained to them that I was afraid that the power would fail. They laughed and had fun. They said there was no blackout. [laughs] Then there’s the snow. Then I saw the snow. I’ve never seen that before. I didn’t know what snow was. When I saw the snow, I was happy inside. And that was a sign that I had arrived in Europe. When I saw snow, something I didn’t know yet. I thought it was beautiful. There was […] what they always do in December, it is decorated everywhere. The lights are on and it looks good. I’ve never seen that before. I was impressed. I was amazed myself. I said to myself, oh it looks like that in Europe.

[i] Okay, so when you look at the landscape, the infrastructure, the trains you were talking about, as well as the architecture.

[r] Yes.

If we look at the people here now, they’re talking about the woman who helped them [told].

[r] Hm hm.

You also told me about the police. Now we’re at the place where they were housed. The people they first met.

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] People with whom they have contact. How did you experience the contact?

[r] The people there [in the facility], for example, where I spent the first week, I was a little stressed and a little cramped. I was only crying because people were all strangers to me. I live in a foreign country now, and I don’t speak the language of that country. I do not understand what they say, the food was foreign to me. The food is different from ours. In addition, I, for example how to play with each other [interargiert?] is also different. We all meet in one place and watch television together. But nobody says anything. Sometimes I thought they were mad at me. I understood later that it’s like that here. Over time, I understood that it was because of the language barrier. But now I would say Alhamdulilahi [thank God].

[i] Um. If we now look at the place where they used to be and focus on your neighbors.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] They say, “It’s cold here.

[r] Hm hm.

What I’m saying is, how easy is it to get to know a strange person here?

[r] Hm hm.

[i] If you compare it with life in Guinea, how do you see it?

[r] If we dare a comparison in this respect, I’d say it’s different here. With us, for example, you can meet someone on the same day, greet and get to know each other, and make friends. Here, on the other hand, you’d greet each other first, greet each other, play [spend time togethe[r], and split up again. But it will take a little longer to get to know each other. But I won’t judge anyone for that, because if you don’t know someone, you can’t talk to a friend so quickly without a certain distance. After all, you don’t know where the person comes from and what he or she is like. Where I once lived, there were only girls. We played and laughed together, without any linguistic communication, yes.

[i] It’s about contacts.

[r] Hmm hm.

When they came here, how was it with the time, respectively with the punctual kit?

[r] Hmm hmm [laughs a lot]. [continues laughing]


It’s called “punctuality” here. Appearing punctually when you make an appointment. For example, if you say at one o’clock, that’s also true.

[r] Yes.

[i] What did you have to experience in this respect?

[r] It wasn’t easy. With our caregivers, for example my caregivers, the women who took care of us when they said nine o’clock, I always [thought] that nine o’clock thirty would also be considered punctual. Later I understood that 09:30 means a delay of 30 minutes. I had a lot of stress with it. Because with us it is like that, if one arranges to meet at 10 o’clock, one can come without problems at 10 o’clock, 11 o’clock or at 12 o’clock. Or coming at 13 o’clock, that wouldn’t be a problem. But here, if you have an appointment at 10 am, you should be there at 09:55 and wait 5 minutes. And then come in at 10:00. Five minutes delay is still accepted. But if [one] appears 30 minutes later, they will deal with another one. The next one would be next. It’s not the same. I’ve had my problems with that as far as times are concerned. [laughs]

[i] Um, there’s something called loneliness here.

[r] Hm hm. Here it’s called loneliness. Some people call it isolation, which means you are or you feel alone.

[r] Being alone.

[i] Being alone in the sense of missing someone or something. Or you don’t have someone to spend time with.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] Did they experience something similar?

[r] In the beginning, when I came here, I didn’t know that many people. But I didn’t isolate myself. Wherever the other girls were, I came to them and sat next to them. We played together. The woman who worked there in the jasper [?], in the jasper facility where I was first accommodated.

[i] Hm hm.

[r] There was a woman there called “Willm” [?], I went to her and helped her cook. But she said, no, children can’t cook here and so on. Then I said, “No,” I explained to her that girls eight years old and older start supporting their mothers. For example cooking. We didn’t understand each other linguistically, but I came to her and simply joined in. I did a lot there.

[i] Hm hm.

[r] Later I changed to the institution “Scarabios”. There in “Scarabios” I stayed one year and six months. There they continued to support me in many things. They supported me a lot in learning [German]. They helped me a lot with the integration.

[i] Okay. Was Bochum the place where they originally wanted to go? Or was Bochum the place you were assigned to? Or was it a coincidence? Or was it God’s will?

[r] It was God’s will, I didn’t decide. When I came, I had a ticket to Dortmund. I couldn’t tell the cities apart. To come to Bochum was God’s will. I think it’s good that I’m here in Bochum. Alhamdulilahi [thank God]. I didn’t get into any trouble here. They financed everything for me, I went to school and will do my education and later be able to take care of myself and my family. I have my apartment. Today I have my own apartment. There is nothing wrong with me. I can eat, drink and in case of illness I am treated. I am very grateful for it. That alone is a lot. That is something that many cannot afford. I am very grateful to you. Yes.

You are also an enrichment for society. If you come to a new place and make an effort and integrate through participation, then it becomes easier for everyone involved.

Yes, it becomes easier for everyone.

[i] What about friends and acquaintances here?

[r] Hm hm.

[i] Do you have German friends or acquaintances?

[r] Yes, I have German friends. I have German friends, I could name five or six. I have my guardian, her name is Frau Kühlem. She helped me a lot. She had had little time and arranged for me to meet another woman. Guardianship ended at the age of 18. She put me in touch with Mrs Dagmar, Mrs Dagmar Vogt. Today she is like my biological mother. She is to be seen there on the photo. She likes me. She likes me and my child. She also supports me. When I have homework from school, we do it together. She comes here and I visit her too. Her children, well, she treats me like her own children. There is no distance between us. It’s like I’m her biological daughter. And I also have Mrs. Publisher. Mrs Britter [Britta?] Publisher She is a German woman. I met her through my friend. She is a very nice woman. She likes us and supports us a lot. For example, when we moved here, we couldn’t do a lot on our own. But you supported us a lot. I am very grateful for that.

Okay, you told us about the support you received and how grateful you are for it.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] As for the neighbors here, now. So what about your neighbors?

[r] As for my neighbors here, I can only say, Alhamdulilahi [thank God], I have no problem with you. Not at all. I am the youngest here. You are all older people here. They are elderly ladies and gentlemen. I told you here, for example, whatever they need, they should call me. Even though I may not be able to help you with some things, please do not hesitate or be embarrassed to ask me. I have told them all that they can contact me if they need to, if they have a neighbour downstairs. I will do what I can. For example, if you have brought water or something else, we will help you carry them up. Hmm hm. When we go out to help, they say “no”, but I insist. In our home, the younger ones help the older ones carry. So we go out and help them carry things up.

[i] That’s what you do here in the house ?

[r] Hm hm. [affirming]

[i] Then what’s it like when you’re outside?

[r] [Laughs]. Outside, for example, it’s not easy because even if you want to do it, some people don’t. They just don’t want it. On the train, for example, every time I see an older person, I stand up for him. But some people don’t like that. They say “no”. For some it’s because they only drive short distances. And that’s why they don’t want to sit down. But there are also cases where they simply say “no”. That’s why it’s now the case that when I have a seat, I don’t get up because some people don’t like it. There are also people who thank you for it. They see it as a sign of politeness. There are also cases where you can see that they have your rollator. And they then prefer to sit on their walker rather than sit somewhere else.

[i] Okay, we talked about social contacts.

[r] Hm hm.

If we talk about the city of Bochum now.

[r] Hm hm.

Did they do something here in Bochum that can be called an activity, in order to get to know the culture here? It’s about the culture here.

[r] Do you mean an education ?

[i] No, I mean the culture of the country, for example visiting museums, inquiring what it was like here and what it looks like at the moment.

Yes, I was in a museum, I had never experienced Christmas before. I still went along with it. I participated. Last time, for example, lanterns were made.

[i] Ah okay.

[r] Saint Martin. I was there with my daughter and I bought her a lantern and we went through everything. Hmm hm. What they call Christmas Eve, I took part in, I actively take part in many celebrations. I do that together with you [the Germans].

For example, the song “Sankt Martin” [is sung].

Yes, they sing the song “Sankt Martin, Sankt Martin […]”, but I can’t do that.

[i] Okay.

[r] “My lantern, my lantern, [I go] with my lantern [and my lantern] with me.” [laughs]

[i] Yes, you’ve integrated very well here.

[r] Yes.

[i] You have just demonstrated your willingness to integrate.

[r] Yes, I didn’t stay in the corner and expressed my wishes. The exchange makes it easier for everyone involved. Only in this way will you clearly see and understand what you want and what you bring with you. Otherwise it will be difficult for the helper.

[i] Um, we talked about your accounts with your neighbors, with the Germans. And what about people from your home country ?

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] The people from Guinea, what is the contact like there? I’ve heard here that you organize activities together.

[r] Yes, activities with people from Guinea like me. We have here an association of people from Guinea. We meet once a month. We meet, talk, exchange ideas. We have a monthly contribution of five euros. In case there are problems, for example when somebody dies or when somebody has a baby and so on. That’s how we organize ourselves at the moment. We women have also organized ourselves among ourselves, when one of us has a baby, we go there and bring presents, like Pempas [diapers]. We throw money together. For example, if each of us pays five euros or ten euros. We visit them and celebrate with them. It’s customary for us to give names to people from Guinea. We support the person concerned in cooking. We help the family. We stand by the family for all precautions.

[i] Hmm hm.

[r] Yes.

[i] What are your plans for the future like at the moment? What do you have planned for your future? Where are you in the process of building your future?

Right now, with God’s help, in two years I know that I will be ready to start work. I will then be able to take care of myself and my [family?]. Yes.

Uh, let’s stay with the integration and the way you […]

[r] Hm hm.

[i] […] in Germany about the bureaucracy.

[r] Hm hm.

[i] All is ordered in order and divided at the same time.

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] There are things that are easy for some and difficult for others.

[r] Yes. [ [i] What was your experience in this respect?

For example, I could say that here in Bochum things look different than in other cities.

[i] Hmm hm.

[r] There are cities where it is much easier for immigrants. Here in Bochum, for example, we women are lucky. Almost all the women who have come to Bochum are lucky. But things are different for men. They have problems. The men do not get a stay, they are not supported in finding a job. They get no support in this respect. A man here, for example, even if they behave in accordance with the law, because there are men who do that. They are also not in conflict with the law, doing unrelated things that are forbidden by law. They have been here for three or four years and have no residence.

[i] Hmm!

[r] You should check that out. Those who go to work here can provide for themselves. With us, it is the case that one works for oneself and cares for oneself. And not always to wait until at the end of the month you get money from the support to feed yourself. I cannot say that the money you get is little. I hope that young people and men will also be given a chance to qualify for a residence permit. You could work with it and earn your own money. That would be a solution. We women, we women, should slowly change our minds and stop saying to ourselves that we absolutely must have children and stay at home. Many children will be born until the house is full. If you normally have one or two children, you could wait and try to find a job. Work, integrate, and put yourself in a position to acquire the ability and skill. Keeping so fit that you know what’s going on. So that you know what you want. Having children is not bad, but preparing your future is also part of life. Yes.

[i] Um, let’s keep talking about bureaucracy.

[r] Hmm hm.

There are processes and experiences that you know, like, for example, experiences with bureaucracy that are different here than at home.

[r] Hmm hm. [i?] Experience with waiting, dealing with time when you’re with the authorities.

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] What experience did you have?

[r] If you go to the agency here without an appointment, you can wait there all day, you won’t be let in. That’s hard for someone who isn’t used to it. And even if you have an appointment and you get called in, you go in and they do whatever they want. They don’t get involved in a longer conversation. They don’t give you time and they [don’t] listen to you to find out why you’re there, what you want. They’ll be ready in five to ten minutes, and you can walk again. That’s not good. You should take time for people. You should ask, “What do you want? Why are you there? What is your problem? Then they will have the opportunity to describe their problems. If you can help, you help him, and if you can’t, you say, “Come back later. It looks different when you come and are kicked out five minutes later. That’s not nice.

[i] So, do you criticize the way it works there? You take a number, you’re called, and everything goes quickly.

[r] Yes, exactly.

As far as integration is concerned, they’ve already told us what it looks like for the young people. Concerning the people of Guinea. If we become a little more concrete in terms of integration […]

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] […] Are there activities that they organize among themselves? Or is that something they still have to do, or something that can be called “un manque à gagner” [a lost and still open profit]?

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] Something that still befosteht you.

[r] Hmm hm.

On the other hand, they say that we have our own culture and on the other hand, there is the culture of the country. And the attempt to bring both cultures together

[r] Hmm hm.

A mixed culture, building a kind of mosaic, that is a challenge in different areas.

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] Or what about the structure for people from Guinea? What about women? How do you see it?

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] My question refers to society, to the culture of the country, or to the culture here in Bochum.

[r] Here in Bochum, we women from Guinea, for example, we are not organizationally integrated. By this I mean a joint project with society here. We are not informed at the association level, it is difficult when you don’t even know where you can get information. Even if you want to participate, it is not easy. Even if you wanted to, you could not participate. That would interest us and help us. Then we could do a lot. We could do a lot of things with the people living here. We don’t have the way or the bridge. We lack the way there. We would have liked to know the way to facilitate our integration. And we could get used to the system. That would make a lot of things easier for us.

[i] Voilà, we talked about culture when asked,

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] what your everyday life looks like, what would you say? What do you do from morning till evening?

[r] Hmm hm. Yes, when I got up in the morning, my daily routine looks a bit like Guinea, when I get up in the morning I do my prayers, then I wake up my daughter. I then take her to kindergarten. I come back home and take a shower. I cook and then I go to school. From 13 o’clock I have school. I stay there until 16:30 o’clock. If I am the first at home, then I pick up our daughter or sometimes my friend picks up our daughter. That’s what it looks like. It is not easy. You can’t ask everyone to pick up the child. You have to [do] it yourself or the one who is registered there picks it up. Otherwise no one is entitled to pick up the child. Sometimes it is stressful, but we have to adapt. This is the rhythm we have to adapt to. That is our rhythm at the moment. Yes.

[i] How to walk here […]

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] […] with responsibility? The responsibility that one bears as a parent.

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] This is about the rights and duties of the parents towards the child. How do you see it?

[r] Parents stand [are] there for their children. They are responsible for the upbringing of the child and strive for the best for their child. They take the child to school in order to have a better future later. And to avoid the child becoming a robber [criminal] later on. In this sense, if the parents tell the child what to do and the child refuses, then the parents can punish the child. The child may punish him by giving him a little gossip. If the child is begged and still continues, if you try to bribe him and he doesn’t succeed, and if all attempts fail, then the child has to notice it, because then you reach your limits and the red line is crossed. That’s the way it is. That’s how you would proceed with us. But here it works as follows: The child should be addressed calmly and one should look for ways to change the child’s mind without beating it. Slapping is not the only solution there is. You can’t get ahead with beating. One should try to regulate it diplomatically. Talk to the child, bribe him [?] […] The child will understand. Yes.

That’s how it is, the children. Sometimes there are cases that can be described as ideal, as desirable.

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] Desires can’t always come true, and sometimes you have to be realistic.

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] There is […] The adult should make the child understand what he has done wrong.

[r] Hm hm. Yes.

[i] And if he is to be punished.

[r] Hmm hm […] the punishment, hmm hm.

[i] Here,

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] In her opinion, um, how people are here,

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] um, how they put the children on the right track,

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] If children do something they are not allowed to do, how do they deal with it in the respective place, or in the [respective] culture? If they compare the misconduct of a child here [in Germany] and here [in Guinea], what could it look like?

[r] A comparison? It is completely different. With us, for example, you show your child the path he has to follow, and the child does that too. You tell the child what to do and what not to do. Here the ways are shown to the child. The educational culture is good. They show the child everything, my daughter, for example, is a child, but she knows everything. She was shown everything in kindergarten. She can distinguish many things. Some of us, for example, think that we can only educate our children by beating and beating them. No, that doesn’t help the children. You should talk to the child, diplomatically try to change his mind, through reward, through arguments […] he will accept and he will follow the path you want. But with us, for example, if your neighbor sees that your child is off track, he can intervene and tell you everything afterwards and tell you everything. He warns you. But here it is different, nobody will say anything. No matter what your child has done. You have to do everything on your own. And if you don’t succeed, then everything will be even more complicated. Here you cannot frighten a strange child so that it stops. Even with the statement “I will tell your mother”. Then the child will say to you: “This is none of your business”.

[i] With the moral courage […]

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] […] you take responsibility.

Yes, you could scare the child to prevent worse things. But you can’t.

[i] Try to get it on the right track.

Yes, without waiting for the parents to arrive. But you can’t do that here.

Is it understandable [to you] why you can’t do that here?

Yes, it’s understandable because education and culture are different. That’s the reason.

[i] Um, as we say in our country […]

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] […] in case something should happen, […]

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] […] the one who stands straight for you [the guaranto[r].

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] With us it would be if your father wasn’t there, then your uncle on your father’s side would be in charge.

[r] Hmm hm.

But it looks different here. How do you see it?

[r] It’s different. Here for example […] In Guinea, if you have an event where a lot of people are invited [Djama], like a death or something like that, when the father isn’t there anymore, then the uncle on the father’s side can take responsibility. But here, for example, the people you’ve met here or the roommates [partners?] could stand for you. Or the government. But if it still doesn’t work out, you can find a lawyer. We [in Guinea] wouldn’t need that. Unless it’s a big problem. For example, if it’s about problems between the government and officials or something like that, you’d call in a lawyer. Otherwise, you would often [agree, help] each other.

[i] Um, they’ve told us a lot about themselves.

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] At some point we have to come to an end, too.

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] If you want to tell us something else […]

[r] Hmm hm.

[i] […] then we ask you to tell us your closing words. Your last word.

[r] Okay, I was happy to have the conversation. I am healthy, live here in Bochum, go to school and soon I will start working. I will then work for myself and take care of myself. I am happy. What I want to say is that I am just happy. I am just happy. I really want to thank the people who welcomed us, I want to thank everyone. Thank God. I feel at home here. I no longer feel like a stranger here Bochum is now like my home. Even if I can’t see my parents here, even if I can’t see my family, I see a lot of family here and am happy. I am very grateful to the people here. What I can recommend to everyone is that everyone, man and woman, should make an effort to get up instead of just waiting for support. One should [show] oneself the signs that one can take responsibility for oneself. To take responsibility for oneself. Taking responsibility for oneself. That one does this for oneself. To do something good for oneself, to stand up for oneself, to be able to do something for oneself, something one can do [fo[r] one’s own family. And do what the population will also call good. And not just something that can benefit you alone. I would also like to thank everyone. My thanks go to everyone. I would particularly like to thank you, Mr Barry. Thank you for coming here and talking to me about […] [with me]. I am very gracious, thank you very much. Albarka [Thank you]. Merci beaucoup. [Thank you]