SU_A_42

Good day [name] !

[r] Good day!

My name is [name] .  And I will interview you today for the Red Star Line museum for the Specially Unknown project.  And maybe before I start with my questions you can tell me a little about yourself? What country are you from? How old are you?

[r] I am [name] . I am from Iraq. I am 28 years old.  And I now live in Antwerp.  And I work too.  And I’m a student too.  That’s just a little bit about my life.

[i] And in which city did you live in Iraq?

[r] I lived in Baghdad.  In the capital of Iraq.  Not a small city…no.  A little bigger place.

[i] Could you tell me a bit about your childhood? What was it like for you? What kind of child have you been?

[r] Yeah…maybe I’ll never see that time.  Not with my children or with other children in the world. Or maybe I can find it or I don’t know. But mostly not because it was very simple.  We worked with papers and glass balls. With plastic balls and stuff like that. On those streets and simple life.  There were no mobile phones or tablets. Not so many computers.  Nobody used such things, I mean handy… So yes. We had feelings in everything. In every thing. Yes not like now social media…and so things. It was between real people. Playing together… Yes it was really fun.  Sometimes yes…I think… I miss those days. But…

[i] And can you tell me about your family? Do you have any brothers or sisters?

[r] Yes, I just have one brother.  But to me, all my nieces are also my brothers. So I am the oldest of them all. I mean nicthjes and nephews are the children of my aunt and uncle. And yes…they feel me.  Or they made me like an old brother before them. Yes.  And I miss them all there in Iraq.

[i] And what was the feeling of always being the biggest brother?

[r] Yes, I am proud of myself that everyone loves me.  And I love them too.  And…yes I…  how do you say that…  I behave yes…my behaviour with them is to listen to them….  to problems or just to talk in general…  I sometimes give advice….  like I do away with pain….  If so, yes…and I also do funny things with them and I always try to make them happy. That’s what I can do. I do what I can. Yes…

[i] And how was school for you? Do you remember your school days?

[r] For me…I was really calm, yes…about a calm child. And…it wasn’t so special things but I have a lot of relationships…I have a lot of colleagues. I have many friends so far.  I have many friends so far. I have relationships with my colleagues who were with me in those…yes…in high school…no…  when I was 5 years old such a small child.  So far I have put them on Facebook. And sometimes I talk to them and stuff.  Yes yes yes.  I especially love those relationships after I came here.  I think life…normally it is beautiful and also too short.  I say, “How long am I going to live is it too short anyway?” because I feel that I…  is not 28.  I feel younger…  I mean from the outside there is something and from the inside there is something else. That’s how things are…yes.  So yes, sometimes I see these problems… and those things between people….  and that is not necessary!  Why? Life is too short.  Live your life!  Be happy! Make good relationships with everyone! Try to help everyone.  Yes, just positive…  Also when problems arise.  In every thing there is a positive side. There is a white light in that side.  Also in problems.  And normally everything goes to the end. Everything goes by. Away.  And just be positive.  And live your life.

[i] And did you enjoy studying at school? Was it easy or difficult for you?

[r] My studies were difficult.  I was in…not in special…  I mean with money private…no…. it was also normal school of government. But it was really special…  When I…  was 7 years old.  Until 12…not until 12….  Normally it’s until the end of your university. My school was the most special school of all schools. And that’s really special in…  in Iraq if you ask people about that school. From 7 years old to 12 years old… it was special and I learned a lot. Also the foundation of my school was perfect. That’s why I think in such a way and… and I do all those things….  in my life.  And the next one was American school. Baghdad College.  Maybe or yes… people in America also know this school. Or you can also search the Internet: Baghdad College and you’re going to see the history of that school. It’s American and the building is really special. We studied there from 12 years old to 18 years old. There were all books from the university. I think they were from Oxford.  We studied chemistry.  I’m going to say “exact sciences” in English: chemistry, physics and…  mathematics, geometry and algebra.  And what else?  Ah yes and biology.  These courses were in English.  In English sorry.  We still had history for the first year. And in the second year I think…no until the third year there was history and also religion and Arabic and…this was in Arabic. That was special for the country itself. Because for example geography… geography is for Iraq itself or for the countries…. just between us…no, not between sorry next to us…  I mean the neighbouring countries or something in general or history for example…. history of Iraq or something of Iraq… or those countries that had an influence on Iraq…yes. Er…yes.

[i] And why did your parents choose to send you to the American college? Or why did you choose that?  But I think more your parents because you were 12 years old.

[r] Yes…  My mother always wanted the best for us. And normally also my father.  But my mother was someone who… took care of us.  So…  She’s about to finish university she…  chose?  She chose everything for us until the university. until the end of the university. And we always listened to her and stuff. But right now we didn’t listen to her very much. I mean listen to her demands. She wanted many things like every mother. She wants the best for her children. She wants a lot for her children. So yes.

[i] And what was it like for you to study in that college? What did you feel?

[r] It’s not a college.  Many people say, “The name of that school is Baghdad College.

Ah ok. That’s just a name.

[r] Yes. But when I say, what is the name of your school? or where are you studying?  I mean, when I was in that school. I say, “Baghdad College.  ”Ah, what are you studying?” ”Oh, wait, ephemera! It’s a regular high school. We say high school or Baghdad College. Here’s the thing.

[i] And did you enjoy studying there?

[r] This school was really magic.  Every person in that school has something special.  He’s an abnormal person.  When I see someone from Baghdad College and I see an ordinary person, they are completely different.  Their behavior, their way of thinking, their cleverness…  Yes, cleverness…  Yes that… I don’t know how to say it. Yes yes yes. Yes I am now on Facebook group of the people of Baghdad College of the 60s.  Yes people are old.  And everyone is outside Iraq.  And they have special places.  For example, professors…  Yes yes…  Every person has something special.

[i] So you’re lucky to have studied there.

[r] Yes, yes, really!  And hopefully that’s right… I thought my children would study there too, because I’ve never seen anything like this school. Not only will you be taught there, but they will also give you an idea of how to get along with people…. and everything in your behavior.  We are crazy. Everyone is crazy.  Playing, thinking…but in our lives we are different.  And maybe you’ll find that now.

[i] And then when you were finished you were 18 years old? And then how did you choose what to study? And what did you choose?

[r] Normally my points weren’t that high.  The result of the last year was not so good. So…  in my previous university normally I had to choose 2 directions: sciences of physics or sciences of mathematics and computer application. Normally I love both…  but I like mathematics yes I don’t know…

More interesting?

[r] Yes about.  If I remember studying, I don’t find exact sciences very interesting. If you study mathematics in general it is not like you use mathematics for other things. Do you know what I mean?

[i] Yes, yes.

[r] I used that…  the mathematics in the normal life in our lives.  That’s why.  So I just chose math and computer application. And yes.

[i] So you went to college to study that?

[r] Yes yes. I have a bachelor of mathematics and computer application.

[i] And how many years did you study that?

[r] I studied for 4 years.

[i] And after that? What did you do after that?

[r] Hoho…  Looking for work.  I’ve been looking for work, but I’ve also done a lot of work. Every person…  when the university is finished and he wants to work in his direction. For me it was a bit difficult because for math you usually work as a teacher or teacher.  But you can also study something with computers or something because mathematics is how to say the sources of science.  So if you can do mathematics, you can usually do a lot.  Yes, that’s why.  Yes teacher was a bit difficult because the situation is not so good. And I started with regular jobs in shopping. Yes once was like in the library. Next to the university and me…  I wrote…I was typing the students’ projects.  And I made them…  For example, they wrote on the paper… and I had to type everything…  typing on a computer and making it beautiful, making a frame for example.  The big one and the small one in Microsoft Word. And that was about the first job. And then I started with…  Alfa Consult.  It was… I was like a communications engineer. We worked in…we worked with… with a network between the banks of Iraq and the Central Bank of Iraq. It was…yes…it was fun with everyone there. And…  and also good experience like first job in this company. It was really new to me.  But…I learned a lot.  I got to know a lot of people.  And…then I found life in Iraq…  difficult for me.  Right now and for the future.

[i] And what was the hardest part for you personally?

[r] For me personally yes…  I’m going to talk about myself personally. For me it is difficult…  first the situation…  for example the safety, the electricity, the water…. these things…  also those…  Yes mostly these things but also these people… People started to change…  They started to become stronger and firmer… And this problem is for nothing…  I mean…someone becomes firm with his cleverness with his…  ”knowledge”?

[i] Knowledge.

[r] Knowledge and…  They become firmer…  But you become firm for nothing. or you do…yes.  Also normal people come for a fight or something…. or yes…for me it got really weird.

[i] But did that happen because of the political situation because of the war? Why did people start to behave like that?

[r] For me…  is that the…character of those people…everyone The people in Iraq or in another place they have no real rules…  no real rules like here in Belgium.

[i] Do you mean laws?

[r] The laws…they don’t have exact laws because the law is the real basis of a country. And the stronger the rules, the fewer problems there are.  Also the people start to do the other things because if the rules are…  education…  yes education…  and also those…  all people aren’t going to lend money to you… I don’t know how you say that in Dutch, sorry.

[i] To borrow?

[r] Like borrowing.  But for example I come to you and I want something from you and you say: ”No. You have to pay something under the table. I’m going to take 200 euros.  Like this.  If there is a law, then no one will. For example, here in Belgium no one does that.

[i] That will be punished.

[r] Yes…that’s why!  So the character of the people is like this. I mean in Iraq or in other countries. When you say to each person: ”You get freedom!” And then it starts depending on a person. For example a person who has studied very well and he has very good parents or… people around him….  who are good with him…  or the situation I mean that…  the form of his life.

[i] The environment.

[r] The environment of him has the influence.  Like here.  I came here from Iraq but…  I know everything about the bad and good things. But I start to choose.  But how do I choose?  From my past.

[i] Past.

[r] Past.  What have I studied? What have I learned? That question comes to me once.  Sorry came to me once.  I say, “How can I do everything? How can I live here alone for 5 years? How can I?”’  When you think about it, it’s really hard. But how can I do that?  And I’ve never done that.  In my family in my house it was like this: if you want to go outside I mean to sleep in your friend’s house or also in your aunt or grandmother’s house it was about forbidden in my family. You have a house, why are you going there? Back to it”’ That’s all. So it’s hard.  But when I think I say, “Okay. But I’ve learned a lot. I’ve studied a lot.  My family does a lot.  That school does a lot.  That’s why it’s like training to do something.  So we go back to the situation.

[i] Yes. Why did you decide to flee?

[r] Therefore. The people were given a little freedom. And that freedom gets worse because nobody can see.

[i] So because of the political situation the situation in Iraq has gotten worse with those people and with that environment and with the relations?

[r] Yes, it has. This is normal because politics is the…  the head, the parent of a country.  So if the parent isn’t that good, the children aren’t going to be good either.

[i] So that really became too difficult for you to stay daat?  Do you remember the moment when you made the decision: “Okay. That’s enough!

[r] My decision was in the second year of college. I was thinking but I didn’t know where and how. How? What am I going to do? How am I going to live? My life was really simple in Iraq. Just school, home, a little with friends, maybe a cafe… Drink something and then go back home. Or something to eat, maybe a little play with friends on computer or like that and then back home. But at times everything gets wider and wider…  and life wants more from me.  Then I just had to study and now I have to work and then I have to buy a house or make something. And then I have to get married and make children and family because that is the system of life. Why do you come to life?  You are going to do all those things.  You go to school, study, work, make family and then…back out of this country…of this life. That’s it.

[i] So you felt that it wasn’t possible for you to do that in Iraq?

[r] It was difficult.  I think about myself and about my future and also about the future of my family that yes… pf…  Education is bad…  Medical services were also bad. And people work and try to make some money and the situation remains the same for them. Not for…  The situation in Iraq always changed. Sometimes worse, sometimes a bit worse… But normally it’s not good.  I mean for people here in Belgium… It’s bad for life all over Europe. You can’t feel that you’re really human there. That you really are a…  that you can really live.  People go to other countries as tourists to have holidays.  And they find, “If that’s beautiful! That’s nice” And when they go back: ”Ah…”.  They feel that it is like a prison. That’s about what I mean.

[i] And when did you decide to flee? Do you remember that day?

[r] When the opportunity came. I always live with chance.

[i] And when exactly was that?

[r] Um…  It was exactly…

[i] Or about?

[r] Yes, about 2 years after my graduation.

[i] So in what year was that?

[r] Yes in 2014 or 2015 approximately.

[i] And how did you get to know that it was possible to go to Europe?

[r] I was in Turkey.  And I was on Facebook…  I saw a friend on Facebook… and he said, “I’m in a country of Europe”. And I said, ”Okay. How can you go there? How did you go there?” And things like that. And he said, “Okay. I’m gonna tell you and I’m gonna help you. He just gave information to me and some cell phone numbers of those people he contacted in the same way and so on. And yes.  And I also came…for me it was by plane. by sea and so on…

[i] And why with the airplane?

[r] I was alone.

[i] But normally refugees come in illegal ways.

[r] You mean walking and all that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[r] That was the last thing for me. The last chance. I said, “I’m going to try with a plane.

[i] Because you need a visa to come to Europe.

[r] No. I have done so… of Greece.  But how did you go to Greece?

[r] With the sea.

[i] Ah with the sea…okay.

[r] It was yes…

[i] So first from Turkey to Greece with the sea?

Yes with the sea. Yes like any person who comes here as a refugee.

[i] And how was the way for you? Was it difficult or easy?

[r] The road…it was beautiful.

[i] Beautiful?

[r] Yes…I told you that there are positive things even in difficult and difficult situations. I was yes…I was enjoying every moment. And now when I remember that I find the good and beautiful adventure I have done in my life.

Did you go with this little boat as well?

Yes, that was with a small boat. About 5 meters or so.  With 46 people.

That’s really a lot for a small boat.

[r] But I was one of the first people to get into the boat because that’s what I had to do…that was the situation. And then I didn’t feel anything…I was so I just wanted to do that and that’s all! Dead or not dead…  I got it…how do you say that?  My reserves…  I brought my reserves with me. When that’s done I’m going to do this and that… About a bit of information…that’s what I mean… And it wasn’t that hard.  I was always about clean.  I talk all the way. I was about clean. Nothing happened to me. I mean problems or something…. Everything was fine. It was good.

[i] And how many days did you have to do that to go from Turkey to Europe?

[r] I think that was 20 days or so.

It’s really long. Did you have to stay in different countries?

[r] You have to yes.  You have to stay a bit in a few countries. But yes… sometimes it was…  It was about 2 weeks in Greece. That was too much. Really.  2 weeks. That wasn’t 20 days. Less.

[i] And did you stay in a hotel? Where did you go there?

[r] First it was in Greece. On the island itself.  Yes, just together with those people.  Like an asylum centre.  But after that it was a bit difficult. Normally it is difficult. I mean for ordinary people it is difficult. But for me I liked it. That’s the situation… What is it going to give me, for example? A villa or a car?  Okay normal. I’ll be right there.  Illegal…  What should I expect?

[i] So you were a little prepared?

[r] Yes yes. I say okay. That’s the situation so I have to live with the situation. Yes. That’s all.  And I have to do so. Also here now in this situation. I have to live like this. With my situation. If you don’t want that, then leave it and leave. That’s all.

[i] And why exactly did you choose Belgium? Maybe that’s a typical question.

[r] Um…I didn’t choose anything.  At first I just knew 2 people in Austria. And I wanted to go to Austria.  But they said: ”Don’t come…  There are many people and…  You’re not going to get anything, I mean papers and you’re going to sleep in the tent too.”’ I say, “Okay. But where should I go?” They said, “Go to Belgium! In Belgium there is about good weather. And they give the papers quickly.  Not so bad or they won’t make it too long. Or…and they are good with people with a migration background. Like those things.  But I knew almost nothing about Belgium. I didn’t know where Belgium is on the map. Really.  Yes, I told you: my life was really simple. I didn’t have much experience.  But I used a lot of things here that I learned in the past. Because I’m alone…  So everything I’ve learned I have to learn even more.

[i] So you just chose to go to Belgium on the way?

[r] Yes that’s why. Just.  But normally I have chosen almost nothing.

[i] And do you remember that day when you arrived in Belgium? The first day?

[r] Oh…

[i] What was your feeling?

[r] It was like a shock.  I thought Belgium wasn’t like that. Or that just Europe isn’t like that. Because Greece is not like that.  And…  I found many differences. I was on the plane and upstairs there was beautiful sun… that…  with blue sky and all that.  And then the plane goes down. In Brussels.  And the weather starts to get darker. Wait ephemera wait ephemera!  Where am I?  Yes, it was yes…  And then I’d say, “Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, o, oh, o. What’s that?” And the second thing was…  That was in Brussels North…  I was looking like this: ”Nobody! At 7 o’clock there’s no one!” A few people, not so many.

[i] At 7 p.m.?

[r] Yes in the evening.  I was like, “Where are the people?” And then, “Okay, I want a hotel. I want to stay somewhere and so on. I look like this and I don’t see anything. Just a street… No movement, no lights, nothing. I look, “Maybe I can find something there. Yes, that was the first day.

[i] And then what did you do in the first few months?

[r] Ah yes. I was at the hotel.  In the first day I stayed in a hotel. And then the next day I went to the commissariat too early in the morning.  Yes, I said: ”I’m here. I don’t know what you’re going to do. Yes, I didn’t know what they were going to do. Maybe they’re going to do this or that in that situation. But I move and I see.  They say, “Go like this.  Okay. Where? What?  I mean, it wasn’t just, “Go like that! But I understand and then we talk to them. They took an X-ray.  And then they’d say, “All right. To Chapels. Asylum center.  With three friends. Three people. And we are in the same…  we were in the same…  room.  And so it took 3 months.  And then I got a paper. For me it was in the beginning.  So there were too few Iraqi people. And they didn’t make too many problems either… I think… for the government…  So Iraqi people are good.  Not like that…  They didn’t make any problems and stuff.  That’s why it didn’t take that long to get the papers. And also my story was good.  It was about the situation and the problems with some people. And things like that.  Yes…  I don’t normally want to remember these things because I dream a lot.  Not every day…

[i] You mean the nightmares?

[r] Like in Iraq or… how I got here…where is Belgium and all that? I told you about the people who are going on holiday. If they just go on holiday and back, they’ll find a big difference. And how do I feel when I’ve been outside Iraq for 5 years? And between normal people and stuff.  I dream that I am in Iraq.  Big difference, big difference… Sometimes people can’t imagine.

[i] And how did you see your first years of life in Belgium? What did you do?  What was it like for you to find your way here?

[r] Em…normal…  I don’t have much information about what I can do. But I do… I took the first steps. Like learning Dutch and then, for example, questions about Article 60. PCSW questions about Article 60 to work. About this contract of article 60.  And then I wanted to study.  And I also studied for a driving licence. And I also asked about Article 60. But it takes a bit of time.  I have worked and also studied. And then I stopped working and started again. And then stop again… and then another job…

[i] So you studied here in Belgium too?

[r] First there was the language. And so far. But I think this is the last course for me. I mean, I’m going to quit the language. And…yes, I’m studying.

[i] What training have you done?

[r] Not quite done yet. Only a few… Because every 6 months I do a new module. Now I’m studying AutoCAD.

[i] Car?

[r] AutoCAD.  And I did 1 semester of Photoshop. But I still have to do another semester. And I think about… about studying more but maybe later with a new job.

[i] And how did you find these courses?

[r] Normally at Encora school.  They give evening classes.  I looked it up and I saw it and I signed up as well.  That’s the second time I’ve studied with them. And it’s fun. Now I follow AutoCAD 3D. Yesterday the first day was just… My head was broken…

[i] Yes, because you work full-time, too.

[r] Yes, I work, too.

[i] And where exactly do you work?

[r] I work at Levanto in carpentry as a draughtsman, programmer, and operator. And about project manager because I supervised the project from zero to 100%.  That’s why. Yes. And…  That’s my job for the moment.  Hopefully part of my job… because I’m currently doing a lot in this company. But maybe later on it will be less… We’ll see.

[i] And how do you like to work in Belgium compared to Iraq? Are there differences?

[r] Eh…  At the moment I can’t find any differences. Between two countries.  Normally the difference is big.

[i] But for you there is no difference?

[r] No. It is great. Therefore, I cannot say difference.  Normally if there are two things that are equal… if they have similarities…  or something close to each other….  But not so…  other things… complete things… Like a…  An example I don’t know…  Now I don’t have an example but…  Maybe just that…  this country and that country. That’s all. There are similarities but for other things there are many differences. But in Iraq the traditions are beautiful. The real traditions of Iraq are beautiful. And the history…I mean what they have done is also beautiful. And I’m proud of that.  But as we say, “We live now. That’s not about history or anything else. So as life, not just in Iraq but everywhere if you don’t like it or if you can’t live try to change it because you only have one life.  1 life! Not anymore.  So try what you can do but safe and good for you.  Because if you start with the first one you might not feel it but you will feel it later. Like those smokers…  Those smokers they are okay.  “Ah, I’ve been smoking for 10 years.  “I smoke for 20 years and I have nothing. Yes, but wait a while. Every thing takes time. So first you do that…  But maybe you go with time… I say it’s like a punishment of life. Like karma. What you do later you will get the result. Good or not good.  So the beginning is the most important thing. How you are going to start. So that’s why. So your life has to be like this.

[i] And are you happy with your life in Belgium? Are you happy that you made that choice to come here? And to change your life.

[r] For Belgium…  Belgium is big in my heart.  But sometimes I find the situation or the tradition or… the style of the people here in Belgium is a bit not difficult but… for me is yes as difficult.  But I don’t know how to say that. Because yes I have other…  differences there are big differences. For example, I’m not from Europe itself. So I have about the same environment. Whether you come from America, for example… I come from oriental place.  I come from people who have feelings and emotions…. And the emotions there are very important. Yes…  I think that’s a big difference.  Here in Belgium the emotions are a bit too low. Yes a little too low.  That’s why…  And also my family is there.  So I always talk to them.  So my head, my thoughts and my heart are always with them. I can’t do anything…  except when…  here in Belgium against them or…  not what I’ve learned or…  Yes, like those things.  Sometimes I do things but normally they don’t know. But I try to…  not like…  back to my origin.  But I am open-minded. I accept all the people. For me, all the people are the same. Who are you? You are human. You were born like me. And you are going to die like me. That’s all. Who are you in your life? Are you doing well? Perfect! I’m glad you’re doing good.  If you do bad try to become good. Try. Be happy!  Be positive! Do what you can!  Live your life! You have 1 life! And so things. So the people are the same for me all over the world. Here in Belgium you have many nationalities. Many Africans, Arabic, American, from South America, Europe… Different! Also from Asia.  You can see everything.  But people are people.  Names, religions, countries…  Have you chosen any of these things?

What do you mean?

[r] Have you chosen any of those things? Countries, religion, names…

[i] No.

[r] No! So…That’s not my problem. I’m like that. Human.  That’s not my problem. That’s why.

[i] And what are your future plans? What are you planning to do here in Belgium?

[r] I have a plan. Normal because yes… man without a plan is almost dead.  But…for the moment I don’t want to say that. I want to do something… maybe…  Maybe other people can see that. But I do have a plan.

[i] But do you have a plan to make family for example? So getting married and having kids…

[r] Ah, these things are going to come anyway. I don’t think about it. Because a woman or a girl who is going to come is going to arrive on time and says: “I’m good for you. I’m a fitting person for you. I can’t say, ”This one is good. It is good. Or okay I’m going to try with that one or with that one…”. No. I don’t have time for that. Really. So I just leave it that way until a girl comes. Because if you want something…  and you do a lot of things: “I want that and I want this!” Then it’s going to be bad. Really. So just leave it that way.

[i] But maybe in the future when you have children with which values and culture of which country will you raise your children?  With Iraqi culture or with Belgian culture? What do you want to teach your children?

[r] The culture of the country itself.

[i] Which country?

[r] I don’t know.

[i] So you haven’t thought about it yet? Have you thought about it?

[r] Yes. I have all the plans.  I already have a plan for 20 or 30 years. But yes.

[i] But I mean is it important for you to teach Iraqi culture to your children?

[r] Normally yes.  It’s not about Iraqi culture for me… For me, the right things are important.

[i] What are the right things for you?

[r] Think carefully, watch, listen and learn.  Trying not to hate anyone.  Be positive!  Live your life for real!  Do what you can.  I didn’t do something in my childhood.

[i] Childhood.

[r] Those hobbies.  In Iraq it was very difficult for me. That is the situation of my family.  And I couldn’t make my family happy. Hobbies are important for children. I want to see my children my son or my daughter in what things they are interested in. So I will try to give that to them. So that’s one important thing.  They need to do 3 things.  A good certificate, sports, they need to learn something from childhood just sports, they keep doing that from childhood. And also a profession.  Profession except that certificate.  For example you are an engineer but you can also be a carpenter. Or you love to do it. Or you want to be a musician. Or you are a football player.  If you can do that, for example, become bigger with your hobby or with your sport okay.  Not just a normal sport right away… normal sport? Okay, so you have a job. Like a hairdresser or…  other things.  So you have two things.  You can use your certificate for your life. And you can also use your profession. Or you can use both. That’s my plan or my points for my children. That’s important.

[i] And what is the most important quality of a person? That you want to have children. Such a thing of character.

[r] Do you mean this girl?

[i] No no. Your children.  Or just in a person. What do you think is important in a person?

[r] Important in a person? Um… The important thing in a person is that he is his plats or his position or yes…he does his position…  in a perfect way.  For example…  Those things in our lives…  people think it’s just a name… for example…  Do you have a sister? Do you have a brother?

Yes.

[r] So you’re a sister to your brother. I don’t know what his name is.  It’s not just a name.  Sister is not a name.  Sister is a job, a profession.  That woman, that wife…  That husband, that man is a job. That father is a job. The kids, the boyfriend is a job. The girlfriend is a job.  What should I do with that person? That’s like a job. You have to give something. You have to do something. That’s an important thing that people need to understand. That his position is a job. Not just a name. “He’s my friend.  Ah wait ephemera! Do you know what ”friend” is? Do you do all the things of a ”friend”? All points of friendship?  That’s not just a position at work: you’re boss or director. You are a servant or a worker or you are a blah blah blah. No no no no. That is something else. This is not money. That’s for life. Normally, the director at work also has to do his job very well. Dismissal is different.  Right? So this is also very important in our relationships. You need to know your job with your friend. How can I talk, feel and suchlike with that person? And most of the time it’s the same thing. Everyone is looking for care, someone to listen to them, and… what else? Wait and see…  Sometimes everything comes together but yes….  Um…  Safety.  Reliability.  For example a lot of people here…or not here I mean in the world when you talk about problems or about something in you everyone wants to talk about it…  Here there is such a memory…within you. You always want to empty it a bit. But who should you talk to?  Sometimes people don’t have anyone to talk to. Why?  The people around him don’t do his job well. Their position is not good.  For example, sometimes a boy talks to his mother like me and she doesn’t listen or she doesn’t feel him. Pain! Pain!  Either you talk to your brother or your sister and she doesn’t listen or she doesn’t care. Really hard!  Or your friend…also a friend.  Normally your friend has to listen to you. Listen. You’re in pain, I’m going to stay with you. No problem. Do you need something? And so things.  You feel that you are not alone in your life. And that’s also one of those problems here in Belgium. It’s not just…Just…  I feel like a lot of people here are alone. Not all of them.

[i] Lonely. Loneliness.

[r] Loneliness?

[i] That’s when you may not be alone but you feel like you are alone. So ”lonely”.

[r] Ah…that too.  If you have many people but nobody does his position. Right?  For example, I have a wife. I don’t have a wife. But for example I have a wife. But she doesn’t do her position.  I have a wife. But in reality in my feelings I don’t have a wife.  I have a friend.  But if I have something he doesn’t listen or he doesn’t come or he doesn’t help. So name, name, name, name, name…  Name is not important.

I agree with you.  Okay [name] . Thank you very much for this interview. It has been very interesting.  I also learned a lot.  And I wish you good luck with your future plans. I see that you really have a lot of plans.

[r] Hopefully everything will be all right.

[i] And thanks again for the interview.

You’re welcome. And I was happy to do that. And hopefully I can tell people how I say that?  That people can learn something too. Or just remember something from the information. Because a lot of people know a lot of information but they don’t see it or don’t remember it or something. Hopefully! [i] Thanks again!