SU_A_27

[i] Good day [name]. My name is [name] And I will interview you today for the Red Star Line Museum and the project “Specialy Unknown”. Can you perhaps tell me a bit about yourself? Which country do you come from? How old are you?
[r] Yes. I am [name]. I am from Iraq. I am 26 years old. I just live 2.5 years in Belgium. I speak Arabic, English, Dutch and a little Turkish.
[i] And from which city in Iraq do you come?
[r] I am from Mosul. Eh …
[i] And what did you do in Iraq? Have you already studied?
[r] I graduated, high school. And then 1 year at the university. Actually at a college. But I did not graduate from the war. Because IS came in on the exams the period of exams and I did not take the exams. Then in Iraq. Uh … I studied computer management. But I did not graduate from the war. I did a lot of sport. I was a member of Team Iraq. Really of high level. From world champion. From many competitions and such. Since 2011 it was actually my job, because in Iraq I got a wage and so for your sport. It is actually a support for your sport. So that was actually my job.
[i] And can you tell me a bit about your family? Do you have brothers or sisters?
[r] I have 5 sisters.
[i] wow.
[r] And 1 brother. My father has died since 2014. I haven’t seen him for a long time. Because I was in Mosul before he was dead. I was on … I left Mosul on November 2014 and he was on December 2014 died. So I didn’t see him 1 month before and I didn’t see all that period.
[i] And what was the reason?
[r] Just a heart attack. Yes. That was just nothing … nothing special. He ate a lot. He loved food. really and truly… So he ate too much that day … So his intestines were a bit swollen by the food and they had printed too much on his heart and … And his heart was stop.
[i] OK. And are your family still your brothers and sisters in Iraq?
[r] Yes, they are all still in Mosul.
[i] And what do they do?
[r] Eh … I have 2 small ones. One of 20 years, My brother. And my sister is 19 years old. They study at the university. The rest of the sisters are married. And they have children and live separately with their men. So … But at my house there are still my mother, my brother and my two sisters. Two little sisters. Yes.
[i] And do you have good contacts with each other so far?
[r] Yes we have good contact via Facebook. Happy that we have Have Facebook and a camera … But I haven’t seen them for a long time. Since 2014. Because I had no chance to go back to Iraq. Because it was dangerous to … I was in Baghdad first. So from Baghdad to Mosul it was really dangerous to go back. So my mother said: “Stay there and don’t come back.” “Because that was really a dangerous road from Mosul to Baghdad.
[i] Can you tell a little more about your childhood? What kind of child have you been? How was it for you in your childhood?
[r] I was an active child who always wanted to do sport. Always something, walk, jump and such. So I did football all my life. Like a goalkeeper with 1 arm. So that was real … people said: “That’s terrible. ” “” “” How can you hold the ball with 1 arm? “” But I was really good at that. I was really one of the best in our team.
[i] Did you have such a specific technique?
[r] Yes. I had special gloves. I made it so myself and cut it and such. So that was a bit ridiculous for the people. “How can you hold the ball? ” And I also played with older people. With the top of our neighborhood. So that was really great. And yes I have always done sports. And since 2011 I started with athletics. I’m actually with real sport … From people with disabilities started since 2009. But I swim first. And then … And then volleyball and basketball and then come back to athletics. And since I started with athletics I decided to keep doing really. Because the coaches and the trainer said: “You are really good. You have real talent to be in athletics. “” So I started from there. On the 1st year … I started in 2010 at the end of 2010 with athletics and on 2011 I was a member of Team Iraq for young people. Under the age of 23. I was almost 17. So I really started the team immediately. And my first game was in Dubai. In 2011. That was in IWAS [the international Wheelchair and Ampute Sports] A world championship for under the age of 23. So I was just at the border of the competition. There were 2 different levels. 1 level from 18 to 23. And the other from 15 to 17 years old. So I was 17 … just 18. So they put me with the elderly. So I walked with older people than me. I was … For the first time in my life in competitions with disabilities. Never participated in a competition so big. I was first … second in the world in 100m. And also second in the long jump. And third in the Triple jumping. But this competition was actually … the worst. The first game, but the bad game in my life.
[i] Why?
[r] In this competition I received a 1 -year sentence. That was the first game of mine with the team and I received a 1 year’s sentence. And that because I said something. Something that has a connection with the old government from before 2003. And I didn’t know that, I was young. I thought it was normal. Because then with us … we always say something of the name of Saddam Hussein. When we get up we always say: “Long live for Saddam Hussein. ” “We didn’t know what that meant. I was very young. I didn’t know what that means. Who is Saddam Hussein? I didn’t know that either. And we always say that at school when we get up and also sit: “Living for Saddam Hussein.” That was mandatory … We don’t think we shouldn’t say that. That is from the old government. So I thought it was just normal. I was very young. I was 17. And I didn’t know anything about it. I’m still growing. I come directly to the competitions. I didn’t know what the new system was and the new government. What does that mean … all nothing. So, I don’t know anything about it. So I said: “Yes … Within our team. So nobody has heard me from other countries, from other clubs [clubs] or from other teams or something. Team? … Nobody heard me. Only within our team. They said that to the manager of our team: “” [Name] said so. “” What exactly did you say? “Long live for Saddam Hussein.” “Just that was normal at our school then. That was then mandatory to say that. So I didn’t know that. Everyone says something else of the new government. From the old … but not from the government. Because there was a little racism in our country between two cultures. And I don’t want to say their names. So yes … The manager said, ” ” Who said so? ” And he cursed against those people. And everyone said: “” [name]. [name]. [name]. [name]. [name]. “” I was very scared because that was the first time and I knew nothing. Who is that manager? I don’t know him. I’ve never seen him. What will he do? Because everything is allowed with us. So we went back to the hotel. He said: “[Name], if you … No, that was the last day. So two days later he said: “[name], if you’re going to win tomorrow you get a mild punishment. ” “So on the second day I was really scared. He was on the line. And he looked at me. And I knew well that I have a punishment. But a mild punishment when I am going to win. So I was very scared. And the competition I was doing it was a triple jump. And in triple jump I was not good at because it is a bit … complex … complex?
[i] Difficult?
[r] Difficult … Difficult… Eh … How do you say that in athletics? Such a difficult task?
[i] task, yes.
[r] Yes that was a difficult task. Because there were 3 different steps. So it was triple jumping. And I had never done anything about triple jump. So I tried to win very hard But that didn’t work out. I was third. And he wanted the first. And yes … so I was really very scared and I didn’t really do my best But I didn’t know anything about triple jump. So we came back to Iraq. And I come to Baghdad to see. There was a small game inside Iraq. And he said, “” You can’t participate in the competition. ” You get a 1 -year punishment. You will no longer receive support from our team. You cannot participate. You’re just outside.
[i] And what feeling did you get?
[r] Unfortunately. A pity that I got that way. And the main manager of the Paralympic Commission In Iraq said: “You don’t get a punishment because you are still young. You are less than 18 and you don’t know what you are saying. Yes. I thought OK. I don’t get a punishment. But the manager who was with us, he was the head of … the parliament of the committee. There is a parliament. A small parliament in the Paralympic Commission. And he was the main manager of the parliament. So he said: “” [name] gets a punishment. So he must get a punishment. “” And I got it. So nothing done for 1 year. And that year, 2011, was really the hardest year in my life. In that year I got the punishment. And I fell on my back. I fell on my back. And then I had two hernia.
[i] two what?
[r] Two hernia. Double hernia. So in the back. So the vertebrae. In between cartilage comes out. So I have two. Double hernia. Then in 2011. Really 1 month or so after that match. And then I also have … Then I also drove the car and the car was burned. So this year the worst was really true.
[i] What was the reason?
[r] the fire? A petrol had come out. On the engine or something. And that was burned. And yes … I have my … Hardest [Dear] Friend … Lost that year. He was dead.
[i] By?
[r] Nothing. He wasn’t sick. Nothing … He was okay. I called him at 2 o’clock. at night. I said to him. I was in Baghdad. His name is [name]. “[Name], I’m not going to come back. I’m a bit angry with the punishment. I want to stay in Baghdad. To have a little other emotions and so on. He said: “Yes. Stay there. It is nicer there. Go to the concerts and so on. Make yourself happy. “” At 2 o’clock. And his brother comes at 8 o’clock in the morning to wake him up to go to school. And he’s dead. And they opened his cell phone and I was the last person who called him. So yes …
[i] Unfortunately …
[r] And he was really not sick. I was in Baghdad but I was sick, a little flu. But he had nothing of illness. Nothing, nothing at all. He was dead. And he was 6 months older than me.
[i] And was there no such an investigation? Why did that happen?
[r] That was just a heart attack. Heart Attack.
[i] And can you describe your life in Iraq for the war?
[r] My life before the war.
[i] yes in general life, the situation in your city.
[r] That was comfortable. That was okay. Not too bad. There was still and bombs … rockets and so … People kidnap, kidnapping? I learned it but I don’t remember the word anymore. So … Yes a lot of stress, a lot of exciting … Every day many people have died …
[i] So that was always the case?
[r] That was dangerous but you could still live. That was okay. I had many friends. I have my studies High study. So that was normal.
[i] And when did the war start?
[r] 2014. End of 2014. Since June 2014.
[i] And how did your life change after the war?
[r] Everything had stopped. No more sport. It was dangerous to go outside. It was dangerous to speak to your neighbor. If you say something they will kill you. Immediately just.
[i] And what was the reason? Why couldn’t you speak to your neighbors?
[r] For if your neighbor has contact with IS or something, he will say: ” Yes. [name] says something about you. We have to kill him. “” Immediately without reasons.
[i] So ordinary citizens were also from ISIS?
[r] Much. Or they were not of IS but they had contacts or friends, someone from the family. So … people speak, If those people come within their home and they say, between them: “Yes, [name] Has said this. ” “Aha. I’m going to kill him. ” “That is really dangerous to say something inside … And I was really … I was really crazy.
[i] What do you mean?
[r] What do I mean … I don’t agree with what they want. They want a beard, A long beard. I didn’t want to do that then. I had such a small beard. They always say: “” You have to shave it. You have to have a very long beard. “”
[i] They come on the street and say that?
[r] on the street yes. And say, “” That is not necessary. “” Jeans is not allowed. You have to wear such big pants.
[i] Traditional clothes?
[r] put on traditional things. I said: “No. I’m not going to do that. “” I have had a little problems with them. With speaking. But I was not afraid, but must, they are the government, were then … So I was a bit crazy to talk to them: “You can’t do that way. You have to do that way. I want like that. “” But … I was at the end what they wanted. Because otherwise I will be dead.
[i] And do you remember the moment when you decided to flee?
[r] That was really a surprise. I decided … I was … I went to Baghdad but I wanted to go back to Iraq, to ​​Mosul. The first time. That was in … August … 2014. So 1 month of them came [is]. And I went back to Baghdad to follow my sport and so on, but I had an injury in my back. Really a crack in my shoulder. So because of that crack I couldn’t do anything about sports. Why was I in Baghdad, right? Then I had to go back to Mosul. And when I came back my shoulder was okay, all the way back. And my friend has a sister. And her husband is someone from the government and he is not allowed to come to Mosul. And he said: ” Do you want to come to with us Baghdad like a guard? “” Because I know the way. I went to Baghdad a lot there and back. And I said, “Yes I’m going to come.” ”
[i] And was it a dangerous road?
[r] Very dangerous road. So I went back to Baghdad and then I didn’t come back to Mosul. First I thought I would go to Baghdad with them and then come back to Mosul after 1 week or so. But when I go to Baghdad came I say: “No. I’m not going back to Mosul. I’m going to stay here. ”
[i] In Baghdad was it more safe?
[r] Yes. It was a bit safe, but not entirely either. Because people in Baghdad say to people from Mosul: “You are all. ” “So that was also dangerous. I could not go for a walk everywhere on the street. I have to … choose the neighborhoods. So I had limited neighborhoods to go for a walk.
[i] So the people in Baghdad thought you were someone from ISIS?
[r] Yes. They thought about all people at Mosul. They thought everyone who got out Mosul comes is just real. And that was why I fled from Baghdad to Turkey.
[i] And the government in Baghdad and Mosul is different? Why was the situation so different?
[r] Mosul was under control of IS. So there was no government. That was completely below. Everything decides by is. And the government has nothing to do with us anymore. So yes … That was really dangerous to stay there. But my family remained a real risk there. They could not come out because that was a really dangerous road. Because the road is within the Iraq army and the IS. So if you want to flee, flee, then the army starts to think that you are someone from ISIS. So how can you continue? That was really a difficult situation.
[i] And remember the moment when you really realized: “Okay. I’m going to flee. What did you think then?
[r] van Mosul or van Baghdad?
[i] From Baghdad. From Iraq.
[r] From Iraq … Because in Baghdad … I was alone. I had no friends because I was afraid of making friends because that is a bit dangerous for us. I can’t go everywhere. And I thought, yes, I’m going to Turkey, because in Baghdad it is very expensive … It is very expensive to rent a house … Or something to do … And I could not only rent a house because it is also dangerous. When I rent a house, they will come in and … I kill me. So I thought yes …
[i] of government or of ISIS?
[r] not from ISIS no. Not Isis in Baghdad. But not in the government. Someone else. Other culture. Let’s call them that. So yes that was also dangerous. So I decided to … Then I lived in … In club, in an army club. That was so through someone who has … Asked against the manager of the club: “Can [name] come to live with you? ” “But the last days they wanted to put me outside. So if I was outside … There was safe okay … Because there was an army in the club. So nobody can come in. But if I want to rent a house, that is also expensive and that is not safe either. So I decided to go to Turkey. And I have the Iraqi Asked Paralympics: ” Can I play for Iraq from Turkey?” And they said, ” Yes, you can play for us. We are going to make a contract with you. That you play with Turkey for Iraq. So all the competitions you come to Iraq, you go to the competition with us. “” They said. So they said: “You have to make a report that you are going to stop from Team Iraq and that you are going from Turkey and that you play from Turkey for Iraq.” “Like a Quit ? They let me write like this: dismissal report. So I wrote that and I thought it was okay. They are actually my friends. Not just my boss or something. They have become friends. Because of all the competitions we participated and such. So yes they let it participate. And when I went to Turkey, nobody contacted me anymore. I also called them: ” When will we make a contract that I play from Turkey? Van Turkey for Iraq. ” And they say: “Oh, that is no longer possible. Sorry. That is not allowed. That is not possible. “” And so on …
[i] they were hurt?
[r] they lied.
[i] But was that because of the feeling that they were hurt?
[r] No. No.
[i] What was the reason for the lie?
[r] They just wanted me outside because I am Van Mosul. So actually said yes …
[i] So that wasn’t really a plan to continue? But you were planning to keep playing?
[r] to continue to play. But when they said: “” That is no longer possible. We are going to stop your contract. “” In Turkey is a bit difficult to work. To find work. A bit difficult to live there. So I thought’s coming to Europe.
[i] But how did you actually have flight from Iraq to Turkey?
[r] just plane. Not fled. That was a journey.
[i] That was official?
[r] Yes. Officially.
[i] And the boundaries are open?
[r] Yes. Yes with the passport.
[i] So no problem?
[r] no problem of Turkey to go to Iraq.
[i] And so far no problem?
[r] Yes yes. You get a visa.
[i] And how long did you live in Turkey?
[r] 6 months. Just 6 months. To collect money to get here.
[i] Have you worked there too?
[r] not me. But my wife is. I also played there. So that’s how I thought, yes … I will also do my sport there. With the Turkish team and such. They have promised me that they are going to support me to give money, give wages, an apartment and so on … But that was not the case either.
[i] So you fled together with your wife?
[r] with my wife to Greece. By boat.
[i] So can you tell a little more about the flight? How was it? Which means of transport did you use?
[r] That was just a black plastic boat, the small boat. That was yes … People say that was dangerous, very dangerous And I also see it dangerous, but that was a bit … I thought it was the fine trip. Really and truly. Because yes … To from Turkey to Greece to come by boat … It was pretty fast. That was 2 hours or 1.5 hours or 1 hour and 45 minutes. But… That was not really dangerous, because our driver was really good. He was really a good driver. He was really a fisherman. So he could really drive the boat well.
[i] And how many people were in the boat?
[r] 39. Normally they are 50. Or 55 something in a small boat. But we were lucky. So we were 39.
[i] And there was enough room for everyone?
[r] Yes yes. That’s a big boat. They normally have 50 people there. So we were happy with 40 or 39.
[i] And how long did it take with the boat?
[r] Yes … 1.5 hours. About 2 hours. Not that long. And I think it’s a nice trip. It was dangerous, I know. The boat was … yes every time so folded into 2 pieces and then back in 2 pieces and then all the way up And then closed again … So that was really dangerous. And that was also the end of winter. The end of … The beginning of February … So that was really cold and … And still rain. So the sea was really with high waves and so … Yes…
[i] And then you arrived in Greece?
[r] In Greece. We went to the border [border] Between Greece and Bulgaria. But that was completely closed. We thought we are going back to Athens and there is the organization that sends people to different countries. We have requested that to send ourselves back to another country and they did everything well. They sent us to Belgium because we because my wife has a sister here and two brothers. So they gathered the family.
[i] What is the name of the organization?
[r] Eh … I don’t remember that anymore.
[i] Red Cross?
[r] Yes something with red Cross and Proxis. Braxis or something … That is a Greece name …
[i] And Van Greece How long did you take flight to Belgium?
[r] That was by plane.
[i] AH also by plane.
[r] Yes also by plane. That was official.
[i] So you already had a special paper or?
[r] Yes from that organization. She actually gives our visa. From Greece to different countries.
[i] So you were happy? You didn’t have to walk?
[r] No. We didn’t have to walk.
[i] That was really fast?
[r] really quickly yes. That was official Greece to come here.
[i] So how long did the entire journey generally last?
[r] Ah … we stayed in Greece for 8 months or something.
[i] Ah okay … so you first had to stay in Greece.
[r] Wait a lot. We have waited a lot.
[i] In Athens?
[r] In Athens yes. But in an apartment. And they also pay for food and such.
[i] So the organization has taken care of everything?
[r] Yes they took care of everything. Yes we were really happy. Not many people were so happy.
[i] And what were you doing this time? Those 8 months.
[r] I was also working on sport. Really and truly. I once saw a coach of Greece in Dubai. And he came to me Dubai and he asks me: ” You have a good body, a good physical. You can do a lot. You are really doing well and so. “” That was when I was with Iraq team. And when I came to Greece I thought: ” I’m going to the Olympic Stadium to see who is there. “” And then I saw him.
[i] really?
[r] Really true. And he thought we had come on a journey. On vacation or something. And I said to him: ”No. We came by boat and such. We come through the sea like the ordinary refugees. And he was: ” What?. Why? What happened? You were the hero of Iraq. The member of the team. Why did you come that way? “” So yes. He helped me a lot. So that was … He helped me a lot. He sent me to the Paralympic committee in Greece. And the paralympic committee in Greece has contacted the paralympic committee of the world. And with the team of refugees. So they also contacted the Belgian Paralympic community. When the decision came to come to Belgium. So they have contacted the Belgian community. And the Belgian community has contacted the Commissariat. And they said: “[name] Goes to Rio.” I had the chance to go to Rio to the Paralympic Games in Brazil. In Rio. Yes I had the chance I had the qualification. And they said: “[Name], you can go there.” “And everything is paid for by the Paralympic Committee. But they ask for a passport. I had an Iraqi passport. But they said: “No. You are not allowed to go with the Iraqi passport. You have to have a Belgian passport. “” When I came to Belgium it was really fast. Pretty quickly to have all the papers. That was within 1 month. So month and 5 days I had all my papers in Belgium. I think that was the fastest.
[i] You were really happy.
[r] Yes really fast. And … but the Belgian passport was too late. 1 week late. So that was the red line … the deadline say they were 1 week before the passport. So that was …
[i] So you couldn’t go anymore?
[r] Yes I didn’t go Rio through the passport. It was 1 week late. But yes that was actually pretty fast to have papers. And everything was fast.
[i] And did you immediately come to Antwerp?
[r] Yes to Mortsel. In Mortsel we have lived in a social home for 2 months and then we have rented an apartment here in Antwerp Center. And… Because I am not going to I had been Rio I had a chance to go to London to the World Champion in 2017 in London. In Rio it was in 2016 … The world championship was in 2017 … I received an invitation as a world championship in London. And on the way I also found work. After 6 months. Yes after 6 months. I came to Belgium … On June 5. And on 1 February I started work.
[i] And what work?
[r] Fitness counselor in the Fitness Center Schilde. So I was really happy with my work. With fitness guidance. That was actually my dream job.
[i] Is it like a personal fitness supervisor?
[r] Yes fitness supervisor. So personal coaching. I did that too. So that was really fun for me. That was my dream job. I did everything for them. But they were a bit … Not really honest with me.
[i] Why?
[r] I’m going to say that, I’m going to tell about that. I got my job through VDAB. That was … Pretty fast, really after 3 months. I also did an interview with Kanaal Z. That is the channel of the government. That is also on the YouTube and on the website of the channel. And then I had none Dutch. Really little. That was second level Dutch or third then. So I really couldn’t tell anything. Now I tell a lot. Now I can speak a lot. But then I couldn’t tell or say anything. When I see the video I always laugh at my Dutch. But my Dutch is very good because of my work. So at work I had a language coach via VDAB. That was really concentrated on Dutch. On all the words I had to use.
[i] For your work?
[r] Yes. For my work.
[i] Such a special fitness words?
[r] yes fitness words, all device names, All exercise names and something like that.
[i] That’s important.
[r] Yes. That’s very important. So I have improved my Dutch in a small period. That’s why I speak now … not super but okay. Intelligible.
[i] yes for sure.
[r] Eh … I stopped fitness in December 2017. Because they have me … They really were not honest with me. They said: “We are going to give you a permanent contract with 12 euros per hour net. ” “But I had a VDAB contract for 6 months. That is a bio contract. And then 6 months of normal contract with the fitness. And they said: ” After 6 months you will receive a permanent contract with 12 euros per hour. “” And I thought, “That’s okay. That’s great. Nobody can find that. “” I did everything for them. I also worked in the garden. I did everything for the fitness. But everything changed the 6 months. They said: “” Yes, we’re going to give 3 months. “” I ask: “” Why? What did I do wrong? Why don’t you give a permanent contract like what you have said? ” Nobody says anything. I did a meeting with them. But nobody says why. I say: “Did I do something bad? The customers are very satisfied with me. “” They also bring presents for me. Really presents. I have a woman who comes from Italy and when she goes to Italy she always brings me something, especially from Italy to Belgium to give me especially. And another Belgian sir has me like that too twenty books given to me. That’s a gift. The other gave me other gifts. So the customers were very satisfied with me. And when I stopped from the fitness Everyone, all customers sent me a message: ”Why?. Why did you stop? We are really not happy that you stopped. “” But that wasn’t my fault. I didn’t do anything. Nothing special done. And they gave me a 3 -month contract. But I thought, I’m going to stop. Because you said a permanent contract, but now that contract is. That means that you will put me outside after those 3 months. Because they have someone who already 20 years in fitness worked and they put it outside.
[i] For no reason?
[r] For no reason. Because his wage was a bit high. So they have him outside. And someone who has also been working with them for 2 years. That was my friend. He was really a very good coach. And… And when he stopped getting customers come to the bosses and say: “” We want [name] Back. [name] Is a good coach. He is our coach. We want [name] Back. “” And there were around 10 or 20 customers who asked. And… The two bosses decided to [name] Back in the fitness. But after 2 weeks they also put it outside. So I thought … I’m going to stop myself. Nobody puts me outside. Nobody dismisses [dismisses] me. So that was the reason.
[i] And do you remember the first days when you came to Belgium? What was your first impression about Belgium and about Antwerp?
[r] It was cold. Yes .. I have … In Greece it was very hot. So I was wearing shorts and t-shirt. Without a jacket without nothing. And I came to Brussels that was June 5 and it was really cold. And I thought: “Oh. What is that? So very cold throughout Belgium? “” So yes that was the first impression. And I had to stay in the street for 1 hours or 1.5 hours. Because we were waiting for someone to come and take us with us. We had the papers and they said, “” You can take the train. “” But we have a friend here. He called us and and he said he comes to get us. So we had to wait 1.5 hours in the cold. So that was exciting. So that was a bit fast in Belgium. I did everything quickly from the start. From Dutch and … I came to Belgium in June 5 And in August I started with Dutch. So started immediately after 1 month.
[i] Yes. Your situation is a bit different compared to other refugees because normally they also live in the reception center for about 1 year.
[r] Yes.
[i] But you didn’t do that?
[r] No. No.
[i] That was immediately with Dutch?
[r] Yes yes. And I didn’t stay in the shelter either because I have my sister -in -law here. And we were always there. So yes. I may have stayed in the shelter for 3 or 4 days.
[i] And she also comes from your city?
[r] Also in Antwerp.
[i] I mean she is also out Mosul? Ah she is your sister -in -law?
[r] Yes she is my sister -in -law. My wife’s sister. So that was really fast … yes. The work too. Learning the language … It was also fast. The work was also fast. When I came to Belgium I was really like that … “Ah come on. Give everything. Come on. “Wake up in the morning and go to work. I was really happy … But because of the problems with my work, I regretted it a bit.
[i] And what was your first impression about Belgian people?
[r] Eh … In the beginning I was very happy with the Belgian people because I saw the people open … who always make new friends, who are always calm, who always want to do something, Who always want to talk, who want to go to TV. But after period that I have a lot I got to know Belgian people and really deal with it and so on has changed a bit. I see that Belgium … unfortunately they say that they are closed. And they always don’t want … If you have a Belgian neighbor And you say to him: “Hello. ” “And then you get a cold answer like that: you say:” Hello . . ” And he says, “Hello …” Without a really warm welcome. Like in the Netherlands, for example, I also have a family there I sometimes travel to the Netherlands. If you say to someone there ” Hello. ” You will immediately get you: ” Hello. Hello. Have a nice evening. Good day. “” Or something but not here … here you get little answer … Some people don’t answer . .. Maybe just with his hands or sometimes they look so … Aside to you and back and they say nothing to you. So I find that annoying. Because I am open and I always want to get to know people. I always want to go with people. I always want to laugh with people and get to know people. But I have that feeling that Belgian people do not want us within their communities. So a little yes … I regret it a bit. That’s a different culture and different mentality. With us is always, you can always go to your friend’s house. Simply without invitation. You can just enter: ” Hello. I want to come and eat with you. “” And that’s quite welcome with us. But not here. Here you must have invitation. You have to make an appointment in advance. You have to arrange everything. So I think the relationships are a bit more difficult. More relationships have a bit difficult here in Belgium. It is fairly easy with us. When you see someone on the street you say: “Hello.” “You sit with him and you talk for an hour. Then you get an invitation to his house. You go to his house. You get to know his family. And you are with them … You get an invitation to eat. And that all happens within 1 or 2 hours. Here… I have a colleague. I already have him Worked for 8 months. And I invite them to come to me but no one wants to come. They don’t want contact with other people … They always want to keep in contact. Like colleagues. Not anything else anymore. Yes so … I find that annoying but so … But I can’t do anything about it.
[i] And what relationship do you have with the Iraqi community in Antwerp?
[r] I don’t have many Iraqi friends either. That’s a bit difficult because people want here … They are not like us then. Because people have already changed here. They always want to get money … They always want to have money … They always want to sell something to you with a double price. They always want to do something do something wrong with you. So I don’t have much Iraqi friends. Not Syrians either. To be honest, I don’t have that many friends. Only at school, colleagues from school or colleagues from work. Old colleagues from the old schools. When I was in level 1 and 2. But not much real contact.
[i] And who are your friends?
[r] But I have 2 or 3 friends. Since I was in Iraq. I also have them in athletics, my colleagues were when I was in Mosul. They are also in Antwerp so we are always together. I also have another friend a member of Team Iraq. But he has a different category. He does power lifting. So he was also a member of Team Iraq. So I already knew him when I was in Iraq. He is also here in Antwerp so we are always together. But no new friends.
[i] But do you also have a bond with the others? You said you have a bond with the family members.
[r] yes with family though. Lots of family. I have my in -laws here. They also live here in Antwerp. My sister -in -law also lives here. My wife actually has many family members here in Belgium. And also in the Netherlands. So we are always together. We always make parties together. We are always together. I have very good relationships with my wife family. I don’t have a family here but she has her family here.
[i] And how long are you married?
[r] I have known her since 2011. So really yes …
[i] So 8 years?
[r] yes of 8 years. But we have been married since 2015. But yes. Our relationship was a bit difficult. So the only advantage of 2011, That I got to know my wife.
[i] And how did you get to know each other?
[r] She is my neighbor. So we lived in the same street.
[i] But you didn’t know her for that?
[r] No.
[i] In which city was that?
[r] Mosul. And we really moved to that neighborhood in 2011. And she also moved after 1 month in 2011, she also moved to our neighborhood. So we really came to that neighborhood together. And after 4 or 5 months we got to know each other. She was a friend of my sister.
[i] Beautiful, beautiful.
[r] Yes.
[i] And what is she doing in Antwerp?
[r] She studies Dutch but for her it is a bit difficult with her pregnancy. And she stopped Dutch. Because she has become pregnant. And now we have a child … She takes care of him a bit and she can’t start working. But she can go to school.
[i] And how old is your child?
[r] 1 year and half approximately.
[i] So you already have a real family.
[r] Yes a real family.
[i] nice. Maybe we can talk a bit about the impact of the flight on your life? Is there something that has changed in your character or in your mentality? What is the impact of the flight on your life?
[r] Yes. A lot has actually changed. Yes because I came from a country to another country that really far from …, social and culturally. Especially my … My food has changed completely. So it’s time to eat … No. But my food has changed completely. Was very greasy in Iraq. A lot. But now it has changed completely.
[i] Even if you are a sportsman did you ate a lot?
[r] A lot of food. A lot. For sport with us you have to Eat 5 or 6 times a day. But the big food really. But here I eat much less. That has also changed. My mentality has changed a lot. I used to make many relationships with new people, but now I did. I have actually become more open. So … Yes, that has a lot of impact on my career. How do you say that? I’m actually … My mentality has grown a lot. Because I have learned a different language. Actually learned two languages. Turkish when I was in Turkey and Dutch from the moment I came here. So if you have learned two languages ​​you will learn more culture, about those cultures and you also learn a lot about those people. And your mentality is becoming more and more open. And you get more people within your life. And yes … You really become … more aware?
[i] Consciously.
[r] yes more aware of your life, your future. If you become more open then you really make a good plan. You no longer focus on the materialistic things of life such as car, mobile phones, Accessories and so on. No because you really become aware that those things are just not for you. You really have to concentrate on your life, on your future. You have to build a good future for your children. So yes … I really became … more wiser.
[i] Is there also something that turns into your values? What might not be that important to you, but now it is really important?
[r] Yes. So study. When I was in Iraq, I always thought not to study. I thought to always work out. Sport is more important than everything. I didn’t want to study anymore when I was there. There I always went from school to the street to play. To the stadium to play, to the club to do something of sports. But now, no. Now that I want to study. Now I think studying is very important. That is very big change in my life.
[i] And what are you going to study?
[r] I think about three different things. The first is to do my dream study. That is sport and movement. Because I had no chance in Iraq to do that. Because with us in Iraq, People with rehabilitation, people with disabilities, should not go sports university. Because they … They actually have to do a few different movements. So with 1 arm they are not going to do that. I said: “I can do anything. I am one of the best. “” I was one of the best candidates. I was really the third candidates. On the admission exams then in Iraq. But they have said, “” No. The medical research says: “” You can’t go to the sport. “So that was my dream, university. And she is still my dream. But I find it a bit difficult here in Belgium. Because there are not so many posts to become a sports coach.
[i] Bullying?
[r] posts, yes, jobs, vacancies. So it’s a bit difficult here. But I might go to sports and movement. Or to something with ICT. Because when I was in Iraq, I also studied something with IT. And maybe I want to study it here too. Or maybe I will go even higher to a pharmacist assistant.
[i] So 3 different things?
[r] 3 different things. That depends on my work. I am looking for work. I might be starting a work soon. So if that work links to sports. So if that work says: ” Yes ​​okay. Sport and movement is a good choice. You can go there and you come back to us to work. “” That’s at Burensport. When they say, “” Yes okay. Then I will study sports. Otherwise I will discuss the other choice.
[i] And yes … If there was a reason, a possibility to go back and not to flee, would you change something or not? If you had a chance to do that again?
[r] If … yes I wouldn’t actually … I didn’t really want to go outside Iraq. But I was obliged. It was like a destiny . Everything was arranged that I have to go to Turkey. And then to Greece. So I didn’t decide anything. That was just … I don’t know who but my life is so drawn. So you have to do that way. I didn’t decide to do anything myself. That was really … The events arrived in no time. So I had to go from Turkey to Mosul to Baghdad. Stay in Baghdad for 6 or 8 months and then go from Baghdad to Turkey. Even without reason, without decisions, Without making a choice. Just go. To Turkey. Stay there for 6 months and then to Greece. In Greece for 8 months without a choice and without deciding yourself. And then come to Belgium. So that was really destination . So that was real, I really had no choice. But if I have the choice, Then I will also do. Because yes I see it now. Now I really feel better. I’m more open. I now realize a little more about my life. What should I do? What should I do? What are the opportunities? What are the possibilities? How can I work? I have learned a lot from here, Belgium, to come. When I was in Iraq I was always a member of Team Iraq. So I was always one of the best. Yes I received support. I don’t like … nothing worked. No not worked. I did work. But I didn’t need any money. I had it … If I stay there I wouldn’t just keep exercising. And I don’t like that for the future, I mean. Because for athletics you stay for example 10-12 years of sports. But after that? What are you going to do? So when I came to Belgium, I realized that I did well to come to Belgium. Now I realize, yes I have to work I have to build my future. Not always sport, sport, sports. Sport is not always, not everything. There are still many things we have to do. In the past my life was always sport. I went to sports, I come from sports, I’m going to sports, I eat for sports, I rest from sports, I rest for the sport. I do everything for the sport. That was my life. That was a bit difficult to live because everything for sport. I have to have a rest for the sport. I have to sleep for the sport at 10 am. I have to … I had to rest back from the sport. If you do sport you must have a rest. You have to eat well for the sport. Everything comes into contact with sport. So everything was really for the sport. I was happy with it but I was actually … My vision was a bit closed. It was only focused on sport. But now it’s a bit open. I see a lot more. I just don’t have … How do you say that? I didn’t have time to go with my friends. Or something to do with my family. Do everything you want. I only wanted to concentrate on sports.
[i] And if, for example, you would raise your child with which values ​​and stories are you going to raise your child? Only with Iraqi or maybe you can also take something of European values? What are the most important values ​​with which you are going to raise your child?
[r] Eh I have to Iraq learn two things: that they are caring and are hospitable. That’s the two things. And open. Hospitable also means open. So that, he has to learn those two things well from Iraq. He has to learn a lot from Belgium. That he can speak many languages. A lot of studying, a lot … Many books have to read. This is not the case with us. With us you just have to Watch TV. But not here. You have to read a lot here. Lots of learn. Concentrate on studying. And build new hobbies. I think hobbies is also important. Belgians also concentrate on his hobbies. I also think that is an advantage. So I want my son that things about it Learning Belgian and Iraqi community.
[i] Okay [name]. Thank you for the interview. That was very interesting. I wish you every success with your future. Maybe with your studies and with your work in the future. And good luck with raising your child.
[r] Thank you. Good luck for you. And thanks for you.
[i] Thank you.
[r] Thank you.