SU_A_26

[i] Hello. Tell me about yourself and your life in your country.
[r] My name is [name]. I was born in the Lebanese refugee camp of Palestinian descent from Gaza. I was born in Lebanon. I lived my childhood in Lebanon in the refugee camp. After I moved to Lebanon, I moved to Jordan. Since my father carries a Jordanian document, they call us NAR because they are 67 refugees, not refugees. We moved to Jordan in 1994. From 1994, I lived my whole life in Amman. Of course, in 1995, my father died. My mother took me out of the house and I lived alone. I rented a house and lived there alone. I used to work in the consulate. I used to work in the police station. I didn’t study, of course. I was only in the 4th grade. I spent my whole life working in the police station. I have no family because I didn’t have any help at the time.
[i] How many siblings do you have?
[r] I have siblings from my mother and from my father. Everyone in the country has siblings. My mother and my father have four siblings. I have a brother in Jordan. He is a big married man. He has children. I have a sister in America. It’s been two years. I have a sister in Gaza. I haven’t seen her for 22 years.
[i] How was your school life?
[r] My school life started in the 4th grade. I graduated from school.
[i] Why did you stop studying?
[r] Because no one cares about the school.
[i] They don’t care about the refugees in southern Lebanon?
[r] Not at all.
[i] How are things in southern Lebanon?
[r] There are ’48 things and ’67 other things. The ’48 are the ones who care about the refugees. 67 refugees have nothing to do with us. Not in any way.
[i] When were you born?
[r] I was born in 1980. In 1980.
[i] When you were in high school, how old were you?
[r] I was around 90 or 91.
[i] Were there refugees?
[r] Yes.
[i] Were there many Palestinian refugees in the area?
[r] Yes.
[i] No one cared about you? No one cared about you?
[r] No. I lived with my mother. My father was in Jordan. My mother and my father were separated.
[i] You lived with your mother alone?
[r] Yes.
[i] How did your mother take care of you?
[r] She used to work.
[i] What did she do?
[r] She used to work in a candy shop. Then she got married. He felt uncomfortable because I was with her. My father came and took me from her.
[i] What did your father do?
[r] He used to work. He used to go to Iraq and bring goods from Iraq and Turkey. He didn’t have a specific job.
[i] So life was hard for you.
[r] Yes.
[i] How did the Lebanese treat the Palestinians when you were in southern Lebanon?
[r] The Lebanese took away the idea that the Palestinians are the ones who destroyed their country. Because of Palestinians, Lebanon has been in wars. Because of Palestinians, Lebanon has been displaced. The Taliban are 82. In 1982, he told them that this is all because of the Palestinians.
[i] And what is the reason? Why did the Palestinians cause these wars?
[r] They were expelled from their country.
[i] And they want to come back?
[r] And they want to come back.
[i] And of course, no one looked after them or cared about them?
[r] That’s for sure.
[i] Okay, when you moved to Jordan, do you remember in what year, approximately?
[r] I think it was in 1994 that I moved to Jordan.
[i] And how was your life in Jordan?
[r] I mean, as a 1994-child, I was 14 years old. It wasn’t about racism, it wasn’t about the fact that you’re from Gaza. It wasn’t about these things. There were many things that I wasn’t aware of. I lived a normal life. Then my father kicked me out of the house. His mentality was very difficult. I left the house and lived alone. I used to work and spend my time on my own.
[i] Did you face any bad treatment from the Jordanians?
[r] As a country that I live in, I didn’t face any bad treatment. I faced bad treatment when I was sent back to the world. When I decided to get married. My wife is Palestinian-Syrian. That was in 2010. I went to Syria. I met my mother. My mother is Lebanese-Palestinian. She can’t enter Jordan. And I can’t go to Lebanon. I went to Syria in accordance with the Syrian embassy. It’s considered a tourist visa. The children of Gaza were told to give us a tourist visa.
[i] When you started your life in Jordan, you didn’t go to school.
[r] No.
[i] You lived with your father. Then you decided to work.
[r] Yes.
[i] What did you do in Jordan?
[r] I worked in the bus. I worked in a restaurant. Then my mother-in-law took care of me. I opened a shop. A mobile. Yes.
[i] When you got married, a Palestinian woman lived in Syria. Did you go to Syria or did she come to Jordan?
[r] No. I went to Syria. I took care of everything in Jordan. Then I went to live in Syria.
[i] What year was this?
[r] This was in 2010.
[i] After you got married, how did you spend your life in Syria?
[r] I didn’t continue my marriage in Syria. Because they had problems.
[i] With whom?
[r] The Syrians. They had problems. I was offered residence in Syria. My parents rejected my residence. They said, you can live there. You don’t have residence there. You can go back to your country. I want to get married there. You don’t have residence. I couldn’t accept it. I tried many ways to get a residence in Syria. They didn’t allow it. When the situation in Syria started to develop, I went back to Jordan. I moved my wife to there.
[i] So you lived in Syria without a residence.
[r] Yes
[i] And you lived with your wife?
[r] Yes
[i] Did you have children?
[r] No
[i] After living with your wife, did you decide to go back to London? In in which year was it?
[r] In 2011 So you lived in Syria for almost a year No When I went back to Syria I went back to Amman I went back to Amman I went back to Syria in 2011 I wanted to settle completely in Syria I settled everything in Amman and settled in Syria This was in September 2011 I settled in Syria
[i] Was it difficult for your wife to leave Syria?
[r] No, it wasn’t It wasn’t difficult It wasn’t difficult because I settled everything in Syria. They didn’t allow me to stay And you won’t be able to live without a residence. I mean, in terms of work and so on No one will employ you and you won’t have a residence.
[i] Okay. After you moved from Syria to London with your wife.
[r] I moved to Jordan without my wife.
[i] Without your wife, okay.
[r] I moved to Jordan so that I can take my wife. When I settled in Jordan My wife sent a letter I was going to return it to Jordan by necessary causality. But, the Syrian Ministry of interior Leaded me that I’m a Palestinian from Syria So I made this decision As my wife, I’m worth staying in Jordan And my husband should stay in more terms I didn’t know why you didn’t hire your wife I know this from the Ministry of Interior.
[i] Why did you tell them to take such a decision?
[r] The reason is that they don’t want Palestinian refugees to help Syria to enter their country. Any decision, for example, that the Syrian regime is gone, we will deal with the Palestinian refugees.
[i] Do you have many Palestinian refugees in Syria?
[r] Approximately 750,000.
[i] How did you solve this problem?
[r] I didn’t solve the problem. I solved my problem by shooting. Saeb raised a claim that he doesn’t want me to come to Jordan. And for the record, there is no Palestinian from Syria to enter Jordan. Except those married to Jordanians.
[i] You suffered a lot from this situation.
[r] Of course.
[i] You couldn’t marry the woman you loved.
[r] Of course.
[i] What did you decide in this case?
[r] He raised the issue of a trial. He talked to a lawyer from Syria. And the trial was satisfactory.
[i] What was the future plan after this step?
[r] This was in 2014. In 2014. After that, in 2015, a woman was proposed to Jordan to marry.
[i] From which nationality?
[r] From Jordanian nationality. Palestinian, but from Jordanian origin. From Palestinian origin, but no Jordanian nationality.
[i] Did you marry her?
[r] No. She refused because I have been married for two years in Jordan. From Gaza.
[i] And the refusal came from the wife’s family?
[r] From the wife’s family. The woman’s family. From the wife’s family.
[i] This is a tragedy.
[r] Everything else is a lie. Even my mother’s level, if I want to visit her, I’m not allowed. I’m not allowed to visit her. Because I am not Jordanian.
[i] Where did your mother live?
[r] She still lives in Lebanon. At the camp of the party.
[i] What did you decide in this case?
[r] I decided in this case. I’m not a human being. I’m not asking for a daughter. and I refuse to accept that I am a Ghazali and that I have no rights in the country caused me a lot of problems in my life it caused me a lot of problems in my life, even psychologically I started going home, sitting with myself, crying why is this happening to me, why this, why that it led me to think it led me to the idea that I want to commit suicide, I want this, I want that I started having very strange thoughts I organized my things in the country, I carried myself and went to Turkey from Turkey I entered Greece.
[i] To flee the first thing was your decision to emigrate. that your life in Jordan or Syria became impossible of course,
[r] My life in Syria is impossible because I am not a supporter of the war in Syria. Why do they want to send me to Syria. And I have problems with my relatives and I have problems with my family. I couldn’t even say that I want to take my family and live with them in Lebanon because I am not allowed to enter Lebanon. I couldn’t say that I want to leave Turkey I don’t know what is going on in Turkey, I don’t know anything about their life. Everything was closed in my face. Everything was closed in my life. I tried to say that I want to go to Egypt. Egypt is not allowed to enter it. Under the age of 40, people in Gaza are not allowed to enter Egypt
[i] And of course, those who are born in one of these countries are not given citizenship
[r] No, no, not at all. I carry with me my identity, if you want to show it to you. Jordanian. Temporary residence card for the children of the Gaza Strip.
[i] And with this identity, you don’t allow anyone to have an official job?
[r] No, of course Gaza, even in Jordan. Even the private sector the priority is for Jordanians. The priority is for those who carry Jordanian citizenship. Whatever your experience is. Many employees, when they made these decisions for the Gaza Strip. Many employees took them out of their jobs because the priority is for them they have to work to be born in the country. And then to be born again. And then the Gaza Strip must issue a work permit in Jordan, so that they can work. They have been living here for 50 years. Not a day and a day.
[i] And how was the living level of the children? Was it average? Or below average?
[r] Below average
[i] They had a difficult life. Now you have decided to leave Jordan, Syria and move to another country. Was Turkey your only destination?
[r] No, Turkey was my destination.
[i] What was your goal as a country?
[r] My initial goal was Belgium.
[i] Why did you choose Belgium? Because many times, as we follow European news, the minister of Belgium has said that the Palestinian right in any European country should not be taken. He was the one who asked for Palestinian rights and they are the ones who are asking for Palestinian rights. And when the Arab countries protested, they said that if you have good intentions and you want to help the Palestinian people, you do not want them to enter your country.
[i] True. This is the same thing that happened to me. So now the European countries are ready to help the Palestinians and give them residence, whereas the Arab countries have closed their doors to the Palestinians.
[r] Yes, that’s right.
[i] And this is what made the Palestinians…
[r] Saudi Arabia recently made a decision to ban anyone who does not have Jordanian citizenship, even at the level of his life, which is a sin for Muslims. Yes. Saudi Arabia has banned the children of Gaza from going to Jordan, because they do not have Jordanian citizenship. They only allowed those who have citizenship to enter Saudi Arabia. If you do not have citizenship, you are not allowed to enter Saudi Arabia. When there was a media uproar about this decision, they changed it and allowed it again and again.
[i] Now, was the journey from Jordan to Belgium easy or difficult?
[r] Of course it was difficult.
[i] And how did you deal with it?
[r] I had a shop and arranged my things. You know? And I went out. Because I did not have a single percent hope of living in this country. A lot of my psychology was exhausted. As soon as I really delivered ideas that I wanted to kill myself, I wanted to kill myself. Many strange ideas started to come to me when I entered the house.
[i] When you took the immigration decision, did your father want to give you any knowledge?
[r] No. No one knew that I was going to go to Saudi Arabia. I went out without telling anyone. My father, may God have mercy on him, of course, died. My father told me, I do not have anything in Lebanon. I do not have anything to take decisions from.
[i] So, the mental problems affected you a lot.
[r] Of course.
[i] You separated your father from your mother.
[r] I am human. Since I was a child, there was no family connection. I have a brother from my father’s family. His mother is Egyptian. He was born in 1983. I do not know his name.
[i] You did not accept him in your life?
[r] Not at all.
[i] Who of your brothers did you accept?
[r] My father’s brothers, my mother’s brothers, and my mother’s brothers.
[i] Because they are all young people?
[r] No. My father and my mother have two daughters. Two daughters and two sons. My daughter was born in the United States. She was in Jordan. Jordanian nationality, since her husband is Jordanian. My brother is from Jordan. My sister is from Gaza. They have been together for 22 or 23 years.
[i] Did any of your brothers try to help you and take you to their country?
[r] I do not have any brothers. I have brothers in Gaza.
[i] And in the United States?
[r] I have brothers in Jordan. I have been in the United States for two years. I went to Europe before.
[i] You have finished your work in Jordan. You have cleared your accounts. You want to emigrate to Belgium. What was your journey like?
[r] I entered Turkey by plane. This is the only good thing about Gaza. If you enter Turkey by plane, you will get a visa for the airport.
[i] Did you go to Ankara airport?
[r] No. I went to Ataturk airport.
[i] In Istanbul?
[r] Yes.
[i] Did you settle in Istanbul?
[r] No. I entered Turkey on June 5, 2016. I entered the island of Mytilini in Greece on June 5, 2016. I was in Turkey for three days.
[i] How was your journey from Turkey to Greece?
[r] I went by these boats in the sea.
[i] Didn’t it bother you to drown in the sea?
[r] No. I was working in the army when I went to this body of land. Our families were not coming for the poultry. I thought we will die from suicide. So I was yeasted from my life. I transferred to Ben Adam and thought about suicide. If I had a piece of paper with me, it would be fine, because we are honorable to the Arab countries, but we are not honorable. The Arab countries only respect what is with you. They don’t respect you as a person.
[i] After you moved to Greece, how was your first reception in Greece?
[r] We were welcomed by the Greek police on the Greek border. Of course, they hit us.
[i] They hit you?
[r] Of course. They left us without water. They put us in the cold in the morning.
[i] Where in the cold?
[r] On the deck of the ship.
[i] Why do you think they used violence against you?
[r] They were trying to force us to go back.
[i] Because Greece doesn’t want refugees.
[r] Of course.
[i] How did you feel in this situation?
[r] I reached a stage where I didn’t have any feelings left. I wanted to either continue my journey or die on the ground.
[i] After they took you and put you on the ship’s surface, where did you move to?
[r] They took us to the island of Mytilene.
[i] And what did they do there?
[r] They took us to Lesbos.
[i] What did they do?
[r] They marked us and put us in a camp. There were around 4,000 or 5,000 people in the camp. It was originally 2000 people.
[i] How many days did you sit there?
[r] 50 days.
[i] And then?
[r] Then I was imprisoned. From the camp to a closed camp.
[i] And why did they do that?
[r] I don’t know. They took a new general. And they started to lock the youth in the camp.
[i] And then?
[r] I was imprisoned in a camp called Xanthi. In the area of Kavala. They took us out in the last 12 hours. They kept us for 10 days. 5 days in the center. And 5 days in the center of the city of Kavala. To the police. And then they put us in the closed camps. I spent 5 and a half months in a camp called Xanthi. And a month and a half in a camp called Drama. These are my closed camps.
[i] They don’t allow you to go out?
[r] Not at all. Not at all.
[i] And how was the treatment inside the camp?
[r] Very bad.
[i] What did they give you to eat? For example?
[r] They gave us breakfast. A piece of croissant. And for lunch, either lentils or pasta. And for dinner, the same thing.
[i] And the reason they put you in this center was to wait for a certain decision? Or certain procedures?
[r] It’s a precaution. I was telling you it’s a precaution.
[i] So there are no quick procedures?
[r] No.
[i] Just a precaution?
[r] I didn’t have time. No, they interviewed us. They interviewed us. I was forced to apply for asylum. I am on the island of Lesbos. My fingerprint is criminal. When you enter a country, or any country you enter, you have to wear a criminal fingerprint. And when we were contained, we were ordered either to apply for asylum or to return you to Turkey. This was my fear that I would return to Turkey.
[i] After the interview, did you make a positive decision to accept your asylum?
[r] No. I left the camp and my decision was still not made. They told me after the interview that after the second interview, in 90 days, the answer will not come. I am not allowed to go out, I am not allowed to wear more than that.
[i] And they will leave you alone to go out?
[r] Yes, they give me a paper and I go to the refugee center and I submit it to take the ausweis, which is like the orange card.
[i] Only if you take help from here.
[r] Only if you take help in the streets, you do not take help Unfortunately, the Greeks are like you, a person. If you come with them, you have a special situation, a private life. You lie to them, you have conflicts, etc. They can make you sit in a camp. And the priority is for families. A man like you will tell you to go and take care of yourself, you have no place here Neither in a camp nor elsewhere I lived for two years and a month in Greece After the camps, I did not find help from anyone.
[i] How did you manage?
[r] We used to sleep in an abandoned school in Athens. In an area called Khazakia.
[i] How did you eat and drink?
[r] An organization used to put breakfast and dinner.
[i] What did you decide to do after that?
[r] Nothing, nothing else. I decided to stay, I did not have anything to do. I did not leave, I went to the UN, to the Brexit I went to more than one organization. I told them, take my name, my phone number, the ausweiss number and we will talk to you. Ten times I reviewed the UN on this topic. Every time I went to them, give us your phone number and we will talk to you. And in the end, you did not contribute anything.
[i] So ultimately, nothing happened?
[r] In the end, I received a letter in Greece.
[i] When you became a legal resident?
[r] I received a letter in Greece. The same day I received a passport I stayed and went to Belgium.
[i] When you booked your trip to Belgium, was it by plane or something else?
[r] By plane
[i] And in which airport did you arrive?
[r] By Charleroi.
[i] What happened to you when you arrived at Charleroi airport?
[r] Nothing happened.
[i] Did you intervene without providing asylum at the airport?
[r] No, no, I did not provide.
[i] Okay, now that you have arrived at the Charleroi airport. And what did you do later?
[r] I went out, I told them, I want to go down to… I asked, I mean, there was a lot of Morocco there. At the airport door. Of course, they worked on the taxi. I said that I want to go down to Brussels, to the city. Buy a ticket from here or get out by taxi
[i] Did you buy a taxi?
[r] I bought a ticket for the bus and got out on the bus I went down to Brussels, the city.
[i] And in Brussels, what happened to you?
[r] Nothing happened I waited, I talked to my friend He came to me and took me to the asylum center.
[i] Didn’t you have any fear that they would return you to Greece again? And that you would have to stay there?
[r] When I got out of the airport door, I didn’t leave them, I didn’t leave them with anything. And actually, if they put me here in prison, I’m not ready to go back to Greece. Because I suffered a lot in Greece. First prison and then I was thrown on the street. The area where we were sleeping in, the abandoned school. A political party that protested against the government. I don’t know what happened to them. Every day they have problems. Every day I have tears in my eyes. Every day like this, every day like that. I mean, human beings live in isolation. They didn’t offer me anything I just know that I have to stop living in Greece. Or that I have to hold on to something.
[i] And after you applied for asylum in Brussels, what happened to you?
[r] They temporarily placed me in a camp. After temporary camp I went down to Commissioner-General. When I went to the Commissioner they sent me to a refugee camp for an indefinite stay. They established a date for me to go down to Commisariat on 2 August. I went down and did my first interview
[i] When?
[r] In 2018. I did my first interview. I didn’t get a permit.
[i] What happened to you?
[r] I didn’t get it under Dublin Regulation. They didn’t give me anything. I did my interview directly. He asked me how I came to the country. I had told him everything honestly. I didn’t lie to him.
[i] And what was the result after the second interview?
[r] I still didn’t do a second interview for the first time.
[i] You are now living in Belgium with the orange card?
[r] Yes.
[i] And how do you see your life now?
[r] I have been living in Belgium for about 12 months. I have problems again because I can’t sleep well. Or in other words, I am afraid that if I enter the house, I will wake up. I will stop sleeping. I don’t know how to sleep. Sometimes I feel like I want to sleep in the bus. But when I enter the house, I wake up. I don’t know how to sleep at night. Sometimes my whole body is asleep and my head is busy thinking. I have a lot of things on my mind. I do this, I do that. I took 12 pills. They took me to the hospital. There is a man with me at home. He asked me why I am doing this. I told him that I want to sleep. Maybe I will wake up in a month.
[i] And you are now living with your friend at home?
[r] No, I am staying at a social residence, social.
[i] And I think that in the interview, they refused to give you asylum here in Belgium.
[r] Yes.
[i] What do you think is the reason?
[r] I don’t know. They didn’t refuse, yet.
[i] So, you finished the first interview and the second one didn’t end?
[r] The second interview didn’t end yet.
[i] And usually, do you know how many procedures you take?
[r] It depends on the facilities. When they open the file, some people came after the second interview. Some people came before us and haven’t done it yet. I don’t know. Any procedures from them, not from me.
[i] When you arrived at Charleroi Airport, you entered the city and you arrived in Brussels, How was your first impression compared to what you saw in Arab countries?
[r] My first impression, honestly, I felt this feeling not when I entered. I felt the feeling that I am a human being, I felt that I was being treated like a human being. When I came to the hospital, when I took the medicine, I was trying to commit suicide.
[i] What did the hospital tell you?
[r] I felt that I am a human being, that I am a person in what they are interested in. Because, as they say, in an Arab country, it is normal for a person to die together with a person who is willing to die. My father died because of a dog.
[i] So, you are now living in this period, the period of fear. The fear of the second encounter and the decision.
[r] Of course, this is a thing.
[i] How do you plan for the future now? For example, if they reject you.
[r] It is the same, this is not a future. It will be destroyed. It will destroy every future. Why a future? I mean, the country I entered, and I was ashamed of my whole life, which is Greece, and they did not offer me anything to mention that I am a human being. I mean, frankly, for me, Greece is like any Arab country.
[i] And now, when you go home and sleep, do you get some…
[r] I take painkillers, I live on painkillers.
[i] Do you get certain pills?
[r] I get them. I get them. Frankly, for a while, even a few days ago, I had an appointment with my doctor, and I do not know how I got it, because she gave me another appointment, and I closed the line with her, and she asked me to change my docter. I mean, I do not know what I am doing. Sometimes, I do not know what I am doing.
[i] But, I have been patient for a long time, and you do not have the patience and tolerance now.
[r] It has become, that even the pills I take, I feel that negativity is not giving me anything positive. I mean, painkillers are normal. Like me, I am not taking them. I take painkillers, but I am not sleeping. I just have to make a promise to my doctor, The doctor said no, he will give you a reaction in a day or night, not in two days, not like that, not like that, not like that.
[i] What is your dream if you were accepted in this city? What do you want to be?
[r] Of course, the first thing I think about now, and my main idea is work.
[i] Do you want to learn the Dutch language?
[r] Of course, this is my dream, of course.
[i] Did they give you any courses in the center about the Dutch language?
[r] No, I did not take any courses in the center because I did not take long in the center. I registered them, and I registered at home in the school. I took seven classes, and the school, after the test, I went to it. My friend helped me a lot with the test, so he succeeded in it. They put me at a higher level than I was. I returned to the test from time to time, from the beginning to the end. Because the course was very fast for me. So they told me, you have to go to the open school, to the open school.
[i] Okay, when you first arrived, you were in Brussels.
[r] Yes.
[i] Was the center in Brussels or did you move to Antwerp between here?
[r] No, the center was in Hasselt.
[i] So when you went to Brussels, they sent you to Hasselt.
[r] Yes.
[i] And from Hasselt?
[r] From Hasselt, I went down and did the interview. They told me, I did not meet the Dublin conditions. But I did have the right to get social housing. From 1992, I had the right to apply for social housing.
[i] And when you asked for a house, in which city did you choose?
[r] I chose something close to Brussels. I told them, you know, Mechelen. They asked me what is close to the capital, for example. They told me, there is Mechelen, there is Antwerpen. I said, so I want between this and this. I asked for Mechelen.
[i] And you said, there is Mechelen.
[r] No. No, I am now in a region called Niel, which belongs to Antwerpen. But Mechelen comes from it, and Brussels comes from it, which is Boom.
[i] Yes.
[r] Next to Boom. So it is the connection of these three cities, almost together.
[i] And when you come to Antwerpen, you come to visit?
[r] Yes, of course.
[i] Okay, and in the Niel, or in the Boom region that you live in, did the Dutch tour begin here?
[r] The Dutch tour began here. I was planning to go to school after the second test on the 28th. I went to school on the 28th. And someone came out, they were hanging out with me in the test. They put me at a higher level than I was at the beginning. So she called me and told me to wait for a call from us to determine the date for the study.
[i] So how is your life in this city without the Dutch language?
[r] It is the same. I don’t go out or go home.
[i] You didn’t meet any people from your country?
[r] No.
[i] And how do you live these days?
[r] I don’t know. If I have things to go home and buy, I go home.
[i] Do you face any difficulties when you work in the supermarket?
[r] No.
[i] Okay, you have decided to work now. If they agree to give you a residence and live in the city, what do you want to do?
[r] Anywhere.
[i] But of course, you have to learn the Dutch language first.
[r] This is the basic principle of the language. Because without the language, you won’t work.
[i] Okay, if you work and succeed and get a job in this country, what are your future plans?
[r] In terms of?
[r] An independent project, marriage.
[r] Of course. I am now 39 years old. It is possible that when I see a child in the street. My heart is beating fast. Why don’t I have a job? Why? Why? Why? I think about these things a lot. But sometimes I say that this is my fate in life. This happened to me. This happened to me. So, I say that everything is my fate.
[i] Do you feel lonely?
[r] This is what I have been feeling since I was 15 years old.
[i] Do you hope that you will be lonely now? That you will speed up? Do you hope that the Belgian authorities will accept your decision?
[r] I hope so.
[i] Until you start your life again?
[r] I hope so. And did you have a good impression in the first interview?
[r] Honestly, I was very relaxed in the first interview. I mean, I don’t know. I felt very relaxed. Because I don’t have a lie and I didn’t write it. I didn’t write my stories. I told a real story from my life that I am living. And I hope that I will get a job here. I was asked, he told me that Jordan is a safe country. I told him that I didn’t tell you that Jordan has missiles. Really, Jordan is a safe country. But for my friends, not for me. I am very depressed in Jordan. I am dealing with the worst treatment. I am working in the government, in return of being a Gaza nuclear power. It’s not my fault that I come from Gaza. No one chose what I should be. It is my right. My second mother went to jail when I saw her. And my wife didn’t allow me to allow her into the country. Why, when the time comes to pay the state, you consider me Jordanian? And when the time comes that I want to leave the state, you consider me a Gaza or Palestinian? I went and did a surgery on my chest. I went to a government hospital, one of the most expensive private hospitals in Jordan. They asked me for 1,500 dinars for it. And for the Jordanian, you don’t have to pay 35 dinars. Just for the insurance and so on. Since they have the right insurance.
[i] Did they give you the right insurance?
[r] Not at all. A while ago, they made a decision for the children of the Jordanians. Ghazawi’s mother must be a Jordanian. But Ghazawi’s mother is not Jordanian. Only Allah can help. I went back to our Palestinian embassy. He said, we have nothing to do with you. The Jordanian is responsible for you. We are not responsible for you. We are responsible for the Palestinian who came. We are not responsible for the Palestinian who came. And if you have children in the future, will you make sure that your children don’t see any of the things you saw in your life?
[r] One of the reasons that made me leave was this. I said, if God wills it and my things are gone and I get married, my son won’t live the life I lived. I won’t force him. I won’t force anyone to live this life. Neither the enemy nor the beloved. Because it is really a tragedy. When I tell you that my father is forbidden to see, my wife is forbidden, everything in your life is forbidden. Why? Because you are Palestinian. It is not my choice to be Palestinian. It is not my choice.
[i] The Palestinian issue has no solution.
[r] There is only one solution. There is only one solution. Why should we return to it?
[i] Do you think that the Palestinians have lost hope that there will be a solution for the Palestinians?
[r] I have lost hope in life.
[i] No one is thinking about losing me or anyone else.
[r] Honestly, no. Honestly, no. The line that I live in is in it, and the line that is outside it is outside it. I have realized that our entire dealing with the Arab countries is a message for the Palestinian people that they should get rid of us. Don’t be genuinely wrong. This is the message for the Palestinian people. Every Palestinian has to have the lifeline and make sure that he and his people can go back. This is a message to the Palestinians living in Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt or anywhere else: ‘Leave and emigrate.’
[i] Where did they go?
[r] They all left and emigrated
[i] What if European countries closed their borders? Where would they go?
[r] They would be in the sea It’s a Palestinian word. The poet told us that Palestinians are not allowed to live. The poet told us What is it called? The Egyptian word. The Persian word. The Egyptian word. A polytheistic word. This means that all the people in Lebanon. All the people who live in Gaza, Egypt America, they all live in Lebanon. Any person with them. An example, for example, my family, they don’t feel that I am not around them. I am sick, no one looks at me.
[i] There is no communication between you and your mother?
[r] Only on the phone, nothing else. Only on the phone.
[i] Did your sister, who succeeded in traveling to the United States, succeed there?
[r] She succeeded. She took a flight to the United States.
[i] Do you wish to settle down after the suffering that cannot be described in words?
[r] Of course.
[i] How will the news be if it comes to your acceptance in this country?
[r] It is like my acceptance to heaven. I really suffered a lot as a human being. I suffered a lot in my life. I did not live a life. I did not live a life. I did not honor my country or my people. I told you, the most situation in which I felt that I am a human being, I was here when I entered the hospital. I left the hospital and from the care of the doctors, they would come to visit me at home and sit with me at home. If I die, 60 deaths, in any Arab country, it is impossible for me to see it.
[i] In the Arab countries, we used to hear the Palestinians in Gaza, throwing a fire with gasoline.
[r] This has happened in Jordan a lot.
[i] Even in Jordan?
[r] Yes, the Palestinians in Gaza are in Jordan. A while ago, someone burned himself at the Gaza camp. He died.
[i] And the governments did not take any action?
[r] No, the governments were making decisions every day. A while ago, they increased the price of bread in Jordan. They lifted it. They had to support the bread from the state. The price was cheap. The government raised the support. And they closed the price. They gave the Jordanians coupons instead of subsidising the bread. They gave extra money to compensate for the higher price of bread. Gaza turned out to be out of the question. They replied to the MPs’ request. The situation is like this. Everything you put in, every decision you make for the people of the region, that is what you’ll do according to the law. Although people from Gaza have been living in Jordan for more than 50 years. The people of Gaza are not allowed to own property. If they want to register a car in their name, they must request permission from the police. People from Gaza are not even allowed to work as taxi drivers in Jordan. You cannot obtain a commercial driving licence; they will only issue you with a private driving licence. If you want to buy a car… you need permission from the police to register it in your name. Houses are not allowed to register your name. If you are a doctor, you are not allowed to practise your profession in Jordan.
[i] That’s why now there are revolutions in all Arab countries that demand to change their governments.
[r] There are dictatorial governments, not governments.
[i] They only care about…
[r]
[r] Een president die maar 4 jaar moet blijven, maar in plaats daarvan 20 jaar or 30 jaar blijft. This is a dictator.
[i] And they only care about what is around them.
[r] Of course. The army is not there to protect the country, but to protect the person who sits on the throne. But unfortunately, this is what we are talking about. We can’t talk about anything else.
[i] Do you feel freedom of speech here?
[r] Of course.
[i] Freedom of opinion?
[r] Of course. As long as you are not wrong, personally, personally, I am right. No one has anything to say to you.
[i] Well, after you have mixed up now, have you mixed up with the Belgians? Have you met any Belgians?
[r] No, unfortunately.
[i] What languages do you speak?
[r] I speak a little English, a little, not much. I learned a few words in Dutch.
[i] And do you want to mix up with people who walk on the street?
[r] This is the whole point, with the school, with this and that. I wish, I even asked my assistant to see any volunteering work for me to mix up with people. I said to myself, my work may change my mentality about this. I wish that any volunteering work, not in return for money, I don’t want money. A volunteering work, to mix with people, to get out of the situation, I get out of the mood. I’m in, I get out of the thinking I’m in, I mean, let me end up with something else.
[i] And how do you spend your time at home?
[r] Sitting.
[i] I didn’t think, for example, that you would take any hobby, sports, reading a book.
[r] Honestly, I put my head down and go down to register for a sports club. But in our area, there is no place where I can go down and see someone. I don’t know.
[i] And do they give you the opportunity to play in a club or not?
[r] No, it’s on my own.
[i] And is the opportunity you have now enough for you to live?
[r] No, the food and drink is good. It’s a temporary period.
[i] And health care?
[r] Yes, they give you excellent health care.
[i] I hope you succeed in your life. And I hope you get the quick acceptance in the fastest time in Belgium so you can start your life again. And you get the person who will help you in your life and forget the suffering you have seen in your life.
[r] God willing.
[i] And you start working here in the country. And you start paying back the years and the suffering you have seen in your life.
[r] God willing.
[i] And I wish you always success. And thank you very much. Thank you very much. God bless you.