SU_A_23

[i] Good day [name]! My name is [name] and I will interview you today for the Red Star Line Museum. And before I start my questions you can tell me a bit about yourself please? What is your name? Which country do you come from?
[r] Okay. So my name is [name]. I am from Chechnya. Yes. I arrived here at the age of 6 with my parents. Because there was war there. And I am currently studying physics. I also studied music. But not finished.
[i] And from which city in Chechnya?
[r] Grozny. That is the capital.
[i] And so how long have you been living in Belgium?
[r] Now 18. Almost 19 years.
[i] And when exactly did you come to Belgium?
[r] We arrived in November in 2001. November 8 I still remember. And we are now 2019 so yes, 18 years. And I was 6 years old then.
[i] And you still remember that day?
[r] Yes. I never forgot that. My parents once said that to me once: ” Yes. November 8 we arrived here. And since then I know that.
[i] And I know that you were really small then, but what do you remember from your country and your city?
[r] Yes. There is 1 image that I always remember very clearly. When we lived there … We lived in apartments on a high floor. And yes there were 3 apartments that were like that. And in the middle you had a garbage dump and dogs were always playing there. So that is what I remember very nicely. And that is the only one. For the rest … I remember what our bathroom looked like with yellow and blue tiles. But I don’t remember so much from the country itself. But I know nature is very beautiful there.
[i] And did you already have friends in Chechnya then?
[r] Eh … I don’t remember specific friends, but I think I played with people from the area. But I had a very good relationship with my cousins ​​there. The children of my aunt and so. I often played with that.
[i] So you had a big family?
[r] Yes. It was quite a big family. My mother had a sister and her husband and their children. And then a brother and … yes. Also many neighbors for example. There was a close community.
[i] And do you have brothers or sisters?
[r] No. I am the only child.
[i] And did your parents told you when you were a child what the reason for your flight was?
[r] Because there was war there. Between Russia and Chechnya. And yes … I think my mother told me that but I don’t remember. That she first tried to flee with me without my father and my father would come later. But that is then 2 times failed. And the third time we finally all gone together. Yes. There was war there so we had to leave.
[i] And why hadn’t it succeeded 2 times?
[r] Ehm … Because yes … So the person who wanted to convey the people by boat, for example, I don’t remember where to another country I think … He had just stolen the money and then it would have left … Let nothing of themselves know.
[i] And the third time in what way have you fled? Also by boat?
[r] Yes. So I don’t remember that much anymore, but I know that there was indeed a boat and we had to cross a river. And then we had to walk a very long piece to the French border I thought … But there we were imprisoned one night or … I don’t really know anymore. Put in prison for a few days. And then they brought us to Belgium. And so we are in Belgium arrived.
[i] When exactly did you start asking your parents about the reason for your flight or about your origin?
[r] I always knew the reason for the flight. So I always knew we had to leave because there was war. But I think I started asking a little questions about how it happened around my teenage years. I remember that but parents didn’t like to talk about it. What is normal … It is of course difficult to think about. So after that I didn’t ask so much about it anymore because I didn’t want to hurt them … To think about that. But… A few years ago I think around the age of twenty, maybe I still asked a little bit more. But since then it is actually no longer that strong.
[i] And what exactly did they tell about Chechnya?
[r] About Chechens themselves they don’t really tell that much. It is mainly … I know the family feeling along my mother side that she misses that very hard. Because all her family is actually there. And here is a number of people. But she always tells about how they got there and how they had fun or how they started playing together and those things … And that there too … Be spas. Yes, No spas but so mountain where you can go to make a ” spa ” with it. She often talks about that. That it is really beautiful there.
[i] And if you ask about the decision to flee what do they tell you? What was the most important part to decide to flee?
[r] The most important was safety. And have the chance to be able to study for me. They wanted a better life like everyone else who flees. And that wouldn’t go there. And they wanted me to be 100% All my chances would get to develop myself and study well. And without having to grow up with violence and war around you.
[i] And what were their professions?
[r] My mother was a hairdresser. And my father was … I know he was once a mining builder … And later he was a builder, I thought. But actually I don’t know that so well anymore.
[i] And have you asked them about the images of Europe and of Belgium when they were in Chechnya? What images did they have about Europe then?
[r] I did not ask and we never talked about that. But I think they Maybe Europe saw as a better place to go to, but in the end they always knew that Chechnya would really be their home country. And that there is what they would really feel 100% good.
[i] And what have they actually left behind? Did you have your own house?
[r] Yes. We had an apartment … Yes. We had an apartment. They had to leave that behind. And family of course too. So it was the most difficult, I think. It’s easy to … Leaving an apartment or a house or something equipment, but family is something else of course.
[i] And you know why they Have chosen Belgium?
[r] So I think they Belgium did not choose and that they first wanted to go to France. But France brought us to Belgium. So it is actually coincidental that we are here. I also don’t know why they had chosen France I think … Friends or relatives who were also there had said: “Oh! It is really beautiful here. Come here! “” But that didn’t work.
[i] And have they told you about the route? What means of transport have they used?
[r] Yes. So there was a boat. Also truck. They told me. That we had to hide from the back of the truck. And on foot. That was it especially.
[i] Where exactly on foot?
[r] On foot we went to the French border. So that was … We then got out of a boat from somewhere and then we had to walk for a long stretch of water. And so we tried to go to the French border.
[i] And do you know how long the entire flight lasted?
[r] I think about 1 year. Because I left out Chechnya when I was 5 years old. And at the age of 6 I arrived here, but in the meantime we also have … I think lived in Poland for a few months. Yes … a few months I think. In a refugee camp.
[i] So you left together? With you 3?
[r] I think yes. If I remember correctly.
[i] And have they told you something about the borders? What was it like to cross boundaries?
[r] They didn’t tell me about that.
[i] And when you arrived what procedures did you experience?
[r] In Belgium? Eh … I know we first had to apply for a yellow card, I think it was, a temporary residence permit. And then you got a … I think that yellow card was for 1 year or something like that. And then I also had a kids ID for a small child. And later we had to get a pink card, which was then valid for 5 years. After that we received such a residence permit really such a card. And after 10 years we had Belgian nationality.
[i] So wasn’t it a problem to get documents from asylum seekers?
[r] Yes. It was a problem. I remember we … would almost be deported back to Chechnya. But in the end we managed to stay here. And I think that was because my teacher from then from primary school she helped children a lot who might have to go back to their country. And then they wrote letters with everyone his name to send to the government. And in this way it was taken into account Seen from: ” Look. It is really doing her best. And let’s leave them here. “”
[i] So actually a teacher helped you?
[r] Yes. Indeed.
[i] And what did your parents told you about the arrival in Belgium? About your first days in Belgium.
[r] They have me there … In fact, my parents didn’t tell me much. But I know it was just very tough. Because you arrive in a country where you don’t know anyone. You don’t know anyone at all. You know nothing. And then yes … I think you feel totally helpless and despondent … So yes. But I think they have had a lot of help …
[i] From whom?
[r] From like … Social workers I thought. I know that we also had to live in a hotel when we arrived in Belgium. Or had arrived in Antwerp. And so my father learned a little Dutch by watching TV in the hotel. Because then he didn’t go outside or he didn’t have any friends … He tried to learn the language in this way.
[i] And what was their first impression of Europe? Were they satisfied or disappointed?
[r] I think they were satisfied at first. It was especially nice to be somewhere where there is peace. And where you don’t hear guns or where you are not afraid that your life will be taken. So I think they had a lot of rest in that.
[i] And did you also have to stay in a shelter?
[r] Yes. We also stayed in the shelter in Sint-Truiden. I think that might be for 1 year or something. Or also a few months … I don’t know so well anymore.
[i] And what exactly do you remember from that time? Of your first years in Belgium. I understand that you were very small but maybe a few images.
[r] Yes. In Sint-Truiden, for example, I remember in the asylum center there was an indoor playground for children. And there was a ball pool with a lot of colored balls. And I played a lot in that. So I remember that from then … And when we arrived in Antwerp I remember there was a girl In the kindergarten class where I was. And she spoke Ukrainian so she was the person who helped me with everything. She had become my best friend. For a few years.
[i] And do you still have contact with her?
[r] No. Actually not anymore.
[i] And when you arrived in Belgium you didn’t speak English or Dutch?
[r] No. I just spoke Russian and Chechen.
[i] And how fast do you have Learned Dutch?
[r] I think that in 1 year anyway I could do quite well Dutch. And I also learned English by watching TV. And by the fact that I was 10-11 years old, I could actually speak English.
[i] By the school?
[r] No. Through the TV. By films. Because you also had subtitles in Dutch and so I quickly learned to read. And then immediately learn to hear and express English.
[i] And for your parents, how quickly did they learn Dutch?
[r] For my parents it took a little longer for 3 years … But… Now they can just speak Dutch well. They are very well integrated in that area.
[i] And how old were they when they came to Belgium?
[r] How old were they? Around 32. 32-36.
[i] And have they learned Dutch at school?
[r] Yes. They are to … I no longer know which school but a school for refugees where you can learn Dutch. They did that. Also business management courses. My father did that too. And for the rest by working or doing internships … Through the environment.
[i] And do they have jobs now? What do they do?
[r] My mother is now a saleswoman. And my father is currently unemployed.
[i] And did he do other jobs?
[r] Yes. My father worked at a renovation company where, for example, they had to make cooling at supermarkets or such small things. My father did that.
[i] And do you remember how were the first years at school for you?
[r] The most difficult year for me was the third kindergarten because I couldn’t do anything at the time. But from the first grade I already started making friends and I was actually … I got pretty good points. In primary school I got one of the highest points, I think.
[i] And what was it like for you to make friends at school?
[r] It was always difficult for me to make friends. I was always shy. And I never knew how to start talking to someone I don’t know at all. And even now I sometimes notice that I like that … A little not knowing what should I do or what should I say. But otherwise … Once I had made friends it was easy to open …
[i] And do you think there was an impact of your flight?
[r] I think yes. Anyway because you still don’t know the language 100% and you’ve experienced so much … So I think that … Make more difficult because you are going to close a little bit.
[i] And what might be different … Your feelings … Your feelings compared to your life in Chechnya? What is it something else for you?
[r] My feelings then? Oh … that’s a difficult question. Should I think … I think I … Once I was adjusted and made friends it was normal for me to be here. And I didn’t think so much back to Chechnya anymore. But I only think when I arrived here that I was homesick and that I wanted to go back to Chechnya.
[i] And why do you think you had those feelings?
[r] Because I didn’t know anyone here and all my friends and family were there. My cousins, my nieces. I had a very good relationship with them when I was small. So I missed that then.
[i] So they are now all the way in Chechnya?
[r] Yes.
[i] And do you still have contact with them?
[r] Not so much anymore. There is family … but a little further family who also lives here. And I have contact with that with my niece. From here.
[i] And at school it was, yes, how were your relationships with your classmates? Did they know you were a refugee?
[r] Yes. I think they knew that. Yes. I was able to handle my classmates pretty well. There were a few people with whom I could be better friends. But for the rest, I always felt that I … I didn’t always feel at home … So I felt that there was something else … But I was social …
[i] And … If they got to know you a little what was their reaction that you were a refugee? Was it positive?
[r] Yes. There was any anyway, there was understanding. Because I wasn’t the only one. There were several refugees in my class. So they understood it anyway. And I also received support and help. They didn’t look down on you because you were a refugee. So that’s nice.
[i] And how old did you feel that you were a bit different? That you were a refugee?
[r] Eh …
[i] Or do you still have that feeling now?
[r] No. Now I don’t have that feeling anymore. But I think around the 5th-6th grade that I really thought completely then: “Okay. I belong completely here. “” I’m good where I am. And that I had less the feeling of: “Ah I’m a refugee …” So around 5th-6th grade that was actually gone.
[i] And do you remember that time what exactly happened when you got this feeling?
[r] I just think because I got older. And you stay at that school … And you feel more and more at home. And you can integrate better and better. You know the other classmates too. So then they also become better friends of yours. And so quietly I felt more at home here than there.
[i] And do you occasionally visit Russia?
[r] The last time I have been in 2015 was. That was 4 years ago. Or yes. 3.5 years. But I don’t really need to go back.
[i] Why?
[r] Because I feel better here. The people here … Or the people there just think in a very different way. Like ” the woman is special to make children … And you can study but when you graduated then you have to get married and do what your task is as a woman. “” While here is much less And because I grew up here, it is also how I think. So that’s why I prefer to stay here.
[i] And your parents? Do they often go to Chechnya?
[r] My mother goes back every year. My father has not been there for a long time.
[i] And why not?
[r] I think it hurts too much for him to go back. That it is easier to stay here instead of confronting what happened there. That’s why I think …
[i] And are there any problems in Chechnya? I mean social problems …
[r] Eh … I already know … I think it is quieter politically there now. But.. I think … What I remember when I was there in 2015, there is probably a bit of corruption that they told me. And … Yes. There are many people who build their houses for example. But that the financial pressure is quite high there. To make a lot of money because otherwise you can’t live.
[i] And what are other differences between your mentality and Chechen people?
[r] I am … I think I’m calmer. I am so … More from yes … everything in time. You shouldn’t worry. A woman is not a baby machine. A woman can also start working and studying and making a career. And how it yesterday Women’s Day I thought a lot about that. I think that is especially the biggest difference. Equality between men and women. Yes. That’s it.
[i] And in Chechnya is it not the case?
[r] Yes. In Chechnya it is not yet 100% so. She … So what they say is that the woman is holy and that is why she must be protected by men. And she must be cared for. And she must be kept safe. What in itself … In itself that is nicely said but … They perform it in a wrong way. By forbidding the woman for example or by suppressing her … As a result, she might not always be able to express her opinion.
[i] And if you go to Chechnya then you also have to wear headscarf?
[r] No. That is not necessary. So there are many women who don’t wear a headscarf there. So that shouldn’t be done at all. And I don’t do that either. But I will feel less comfortable to wear jeans, for example. So when I got there I always do skirts or dresses.
[i] And if you don’t do what would happen?
[r] I think people would just look at me from: ” What are you wearing now? How do you dare to do that? “” But now I don’t know anymore. Maybe it has changed there. But I remember when I was there, a few years ago, it wasn’t that normal. I think I was there 1 month about … And at that time I think I saw 1 woman with pants on the street. And that was it.
[i] And have you asked your parents about their integration? What was it like for them to integrate here? Was it easy or difficult?
[r] I think it was difficult. Because they are not alone … Yes they come … They end up in a world they don’t know at all. And that too … Very different in terms of norms and values. And for them that was too … I think they might think Europe was bad … Because everyone is here loose and everything is allowed. And there are no rules … I think that’s what they thought. And that it became even more difficult for them. Yes.
[i] And you think they already 100% Be integrated in Belgium?
[r] Yes. In terms of language.
[i] And in terms of mentality?
[r] In terms of mentality that will never happen. That’s normal. They grew up in Chechnya. 30 years. Or maybe almost 40 years. So that’s normal too. That they go like this … That they keep thinking in this way in terms of mentality.
[i] And if they live here what differences are in mentality with Belgian people?
[r] Eh … I think … The difference between my father for example and the Belgian people, The typical Belgian people is that my father is very direct. So he will immediately say what he thinks. And I think Belgian people might be a bit more careful … They are not going to lie to you. But they are going to keep it calmer. I think that’s the biggest difference.
[i] And for your mother?
[r] For my mother … I don’t really know. For my mother, the most important thing is the family feeling. And I think they might have a picture that family in Belgium is not that important. But that is of course not true. I see that it is also very important here. But I think it’s the hardest for my mother.
[i] And who do you think is the most integrated? Your father or mother?
[r] My mother. I may think because she is also my mother that she better understands me in some areas. For example, when I say: “But why do I have to do that? If a man doesn’t have to do that. “” And my mother has something of: “Ah yes. Okay. You are actually right. “” So she understands me in that area.
[i] And if you tell your father that?
[r] Yes. I don’t say that to my father anymore. Because he … Yes he just has his own idea. And that stays that way. That will never change. So he is sure he is right.
[i] And what relationships do they have with the Chechen community in Belgium?
[r] Only their own family actually. I think … my father’s niece lives here. Together with her husband and their children. And that’s the only thing. Not for the rest. Nobody.
[i] And do you know if the Chechen community is great in Belgium?
[r] It’s pretty big. Especially in Belgium in itself. I know in Antwerp … Is it a big community. And I also think they all know each other a little bit but not 100% personal. I think they just … “I know your mother. Or I know your father from there and there. “” And whatever happens a lot is the people who already lived here also say to their family in Chechnya: “Come here. ” “And then it gets bigger and bigger.
[i] So everyone knows everyone?
[r] Yes. A little bit.
[i] And for you too, do you also have relationships with your community?
[r] No. I have always kept myself outside. Because in the beginning also … I think when I 10, 11, 12 years old, my parents would like to have as many Dutch -speaking friends as possible so that I would learn the language well. And because of that I have never really had deeper ties with Chechens.
[i] But know people, Chechen people?
[r] No. Not either. I don’t know much there. I know a few. But not so good. Simply superficial.
[i] And if you go on the street, for example, would you recognize a Chechen person?
[r] Yes. I recognize them. Because yes … For example, those women have such a headscarf or so usually … They are very recognizable to me. But even when I walk on the street with friends and I used to say: “Oh look. That’s a chips.” To recognize Chechens. That’s funny.
[i] And do you think a lot Chechen people are who live in Belgium or in Europe that are already integrated and who have other mentality?
[r] I think there is anyway. I think more younger than older people. But I also notice that … Especially with men that has to change very strongly because the men who live here and those are young men around my age 25 years so something that they start to think stronger how they think in Chechnya about woman and man than in Chechnya herself. So I think they are freer about their opinion about wife than the boys who live here. I notice a lot there … Yes… hypocrisy and those things.
[i] And have you ever tried to have contact with Chechen people here or not?
[r] No. I never wanted that.
[i] And why?
[r] Because I just can’t get there anymore … Their way of thinking is just too primitive for me. I am not saying that they are all that way but … Most people are very … Yes… As if they are still in the 16th century live. So it seems …
[i] And what do you think is the reason for such a mentality?
[r] Because they are their … Because they live here … So they no longer live in Chechnya which means that they will stick to those ideas even more strongly to those values ​​because they want it to survive. But on the other hand they want … Yes … they are not going to see that time is evolving. And… There are, for example, revolutions of young people with the climate marches and with those ” me too ” movement … And against racism … So much is coming up … But she … They stick to their values ​​because they no longer live there and they don’t want to lose that. So I think they are afraid that they would also lose themselves if they would see other things differently …
[i] And do you think it is ever possible to integrate for them in Europe?
[r] That’s possible anyway. But that is not going to happen in 10 years. A lot of time really has to go there. That is really about a few generations I think … So maybe 100 or 200 years.
[i] And do you know why Chechen people have so strong values ​​and why they try to keep these values ​​so strong?
[r] Yes. My father told me that. More often. So then in Chechen in the past … I think 1940 or 1950 Maybe … If Russia wanted to commit a genocide in Chechnya and that they therefore often have those events where they wanted Chechens, yes … eradicate … out … Perhaps it is too strong, but that they have always had to fight to continue to maintain themselves and to survive. That they also wanted to retain that fighter mentality. Because they don’t want to lose themselves. So much has already happened … They want that to stop. So.
[i] And what are the most differences between mentalities between you and your parents?
[r] The biggest difference is really the relationship between men and women. That is the biggest difference. Because they … Still so … So not my mother, but my father still has an image that a woman is weaker than a man. And I tried to change his ideas about that, but he doesn’t want to accept that.
[i] And how did you try?
[r] I tried to talk to him. He once said to me: “” A woman stands for love and care. And a man invented war. And that is why a man is stronger than a woman. “” And I try to say, “” But why should that be stronger? And why is war something good that a man invented? “” And I try to say from: “” Why can care and love and …? I think he means more fighters with the war and so the strong qualities of a man. And that the woman has weaker qualities. But then I try to say: “” Why can’t the one be in the other? ” And the other not in one? And why can’t that live together in harmony? “” But yes … No answer. No response.
[i] And do you think it is ever possible to change his thoughts? Uh … I don’t think at the moment. He is also a little older. He is 55 I think. And that is difficult to change people of a little older age of thoughts. Because they have been thinking in such a way and that’s just a part of them. But I want … I have already inserted a lot of energy and at the moment I just think: “” So long that you don’t hurt people then you have to think how you want. “” And I will think how I want. Then let’s live in harmony then.
[i] But in general what relationships do you have with your parents?
[r] My bond with my mother is stronger than with my father. I can … I can handle my mother better. Because I so hard with my father in those areas, I bump into it That it is a bit harder to talk to him. But in the end … I still love them. Those are my parents. They have done so much. They also sacrificed so much. And I have a lot of respect for that. So that’s what I feel.
[i] And do you live far apart?
[r] No. Not that far. I think one by bike 10 minutes or fifteen minutes.
[i] And how often do you see each other?
[r] I think … Once every 2 weeks maybe 2 times … something like that.
[i] And have them Belgian friends?
[r] Yes. My mother does have colleagues that she can handle well at work. But not really my father. Because he is also unemployed … He is usually at home. And then he does something at home. He cooks. Or maybe he goes for a walk in the city. So he has none Belgian friends. No.
[i] But you have Chechens friend?
[r] None Chechen friends. He does have … I think Ukrainian friends or something. He once played in a music band. And sometimes he still has contact with those people, I think. I think those are Russian and Ukraine.
[i] And do they have many contacts in general with the Russian community?
[r] No. Not really either. No. My parents just try to live their own lives. And yes. To stay calm. Not too much to mix with other people.
[i] And for you? Do you have more Belgian or Russian friends?
[r] I have one Belgian girlfriend and for the rest I have yes … From different countries actually. Bengals, Brazilian … Yes. Different countries. And 1 Belgian girlfriend.
[i] You said about your high school … And what did you do afterwards?
[r] Then I studied music at the conservatory. First in Leuven, Then in Antwerp. And now I study physics. My first year.
[i] And why did you choose music to study?
[r] I always wanted to make music. And I always wanted to become a musician. But… I also didn’t really think about … What I might want to do differently. Music was always very logical to do. Because I’ve always … I had been in the music school since I was 7 years old. And then yes. Until the age of 18. That is very long. And I thought: “Yes. I’m going to study music because I really can’t do anything else. “” I thought at the time. And that’s why I started doing that.
[i] What specific in music?
[r] First composition. So write music. And then music theory.
[i] And have you worked in this job?
[r] No, no. Yes I have given tutoring Piano lessons given to children for example. I really enjoyed doing that. But not a real job job.
[i] And why did you decide to change to physics?
[r] Because I was no longer happy to study music. I think I realized that I just wanted to do music as a hobby. And find out a bit what I want to do. Or does not want to do in the music. And I always wanted to do something with science in the past. But… I’ve never done that. That was just as short that I thought: “Ah. I would like to do that. Because I remember that my grandfather was a scientist. But yes. Never further thought of. And never done again. And then last year I suddenly thought: “Oh. I actually want to do that. “”
[i] and how are physics studying?
[r] It is very heavy. But very interesting. It is what I expected. It’s really … yes. You must be able to think very carefully about certain things and make connections. It is really a very interesting study.
[i] And what are you planning to do after your studies?
[r] I would like to do research in astrophysics. To the universe and so, see what is going on.
[i] So now you do your bachelor or master?
[r] Bachelor. First bachelor.
[i] And then you still plan to do a master?
[r] Yes.
[i] And what relationships do you have with other students?
[r] Yes. I get along well with that. Those are of course 18-year-old, 17-year-olds and 19 like that. So they are younger than me. But they are really nice people. Yes I feel they think older than an 18-year-old.
[i] And do you feel that there is a difference between you and Flemish people?
[r] No. Not really. I feel no differences. No.
[i] And have you ever experienced difficult situations with Belgian people? Something about communication?
[r] No. Not either. For me everything has always gone very smoothly.
[i] And for your parents?
[r] For my parents … Communication for my … Do you mean the Dutch language itself? Or in general?
[i] In general communication.
[r] Yes. For my father, for example, I know that he had a lot of trouble with some colleagues because yes … Mentality differences. My father is just very strong in how he thinks. And I remember told him there were once at work … He then said Belgians who bully someone … At work … And he has become angry about … And he has … Try to help that person and become friends with that. Yes. My father had a lot of trouble in those areas. With Belgians.
[i] And your mother?
[r] Not really my mother. My mother is also very quiet. And she is … She tries to understand the other person. And that is why she was also more natural with her, I think.
[i] And what feelings do you now have about Chechnya? Do you think it’s your mother country? Or Fatherland?
[r] Fatherland … no. To be honest, I don’t have any tires with that. For me my country is … Yes … I … It’s hard … Because Belgium is not really my country either. But I feel 100% at home here. And in Chechnya I feel 0% at home. Yes. That’s a bit … Yes. That’s what it’s like.
[i] And why do you say that Belgium is not your home?
[r] Because I … Not born here. That’s very strange. I have been living here for a long time. Almost all my life. And I feel at home here. But in the end this is not where I come from. I’ll come from Chechnya. And that’s my history. And that is why I may not have that kind of feeling for Belgium. As a Belgian would think: “Oh yes. Belgium is really my country. No. That’s not the feeling that I have.
[i] So you think it is important to be born in a country to have the feeling of homeland?
[r] I think yes. I think so because … You then come to a foreign country where you have to learn everything. And where you were born also has a lot to do with your parents. Yes. Everything to do with your parents of course. They are the one who creates you … And… The place where you were born is … Is what your history consists of. Yes. I think that’s important.
[i] And do you know a lot about the history of Chechnya?
[r] I don’t know much about that. Just things I looked up myself. And things that my parents told. Like those genocides for example. I didn’t know that in the past. I had to learn that.
[i] And what do you know about that war with Russia?
[r] I think there 3 wars were. And that the person we fled was the third war, I thought. And eh … It took a long time … And like every war … violence, painful. I remember that I was in bed with my parents and then there are men with masks on and our parents came in their bedroom through my parents and then we had to leave quickly … So I remember that.
[i] And who were those people?
[r] I don’t know anymore. I think those were the Russians. Yes. Those were Russians anyway. But I no longer know who exactly was. They had masks on.
[i] And do you often think about that situation?
[r] I don’t think about that often. Sometimes they just come out suddenly but I don’t really think about that. It doesn’t hurt me anymore to think about that. Because I know that is in the past and now we have a better life.
[i] And if you look back at your flight and your childhood what impact has that done on your life now?
[r] Fleeing? I think … That I am there … It is better to move my pain in other people. That I … It is better to understand what another feels or trying to understand what another feels.
[i] And what feelings do you now have about your flight? About Chechnya?
[r] I am … Yes. I am happy … That we have fled anyway. It was then at that time … I think that at the moment I did not realize so well what was happening. And that that is why I may not remember much. But at the moment I am happy that it happened. Because we were allowed to stay there, our lives would look completely different of course and we might not live anymore. So yes.
[i] And are you planning to have family or children?
[r] Yes. I would like to have children.
[i] And do you already have an idea how to raise your children? With Belgian mentality or also a bit with Chechen?
[r] I’m just going to raise them with a mentality that you should be a good person and that you have to accept others for how they are. And that you must be tolerant and respect everything and everyone. That is how I would like to raise them.
[i] And what plans do you have for your future?
[r] I would like to finish my studies. Very happy. Later yes. Work. Doing research. And then make children. Start children.
[i] And if you now think of Chechnya what are your first associations? Who come in your head.
[r] Chechnya? War. That is the first thing I think about. War. Pain too. But otherwise … A strong sense of community. That is a lot there.
[i] Is there something that is very positive a positive association that you have about Chechnya?
[r] Yes. There are for each other. So try to help each other whatever happens. That’s the best I think.
[i] And I asked you to bring a dear object. Can you tell me a bit about this object please? And why is this object so important to you?
[r] So I brought this chain. Because I … I got that from my mother. And… I actually have … My mother always wants to give me something when I go to their home. And she wants to give me clothes or give me food. Or give chains. And then she has given me this and … For me if I … Looking at this I think of my mother and that I have a lot of respect for her and that she is really a strong woman for what she has gone through and she always stays positive and she always tries to laugh or make someone else laugh. So that’s why I brought this …
[i] So you have really strong relationships with your mother?
[r] Yes. Quite. Yes. I love her a lot.
[i] And that you are something specific to Chechen culture? Or is it general?
[r] That’s just general. I think … Certainly daughter mother because we are both women then you know more or less … What your mother or what your daughter experiences and that you also feel better.
[i] And what values ​​would you like to take from Chechen culture and from Belgian culture?
[r] I think … So … What I like is the values ​​of the Chechen and the Belgian culture that are the most important values ​​for me and are also just The values ​​that every person should take into account and that is especially respect yes respect for another person and being tolerant and trying to help. Yes in Chechnya, that is a lot that people want to help each other. So that’s something I like to take with
[i] And here in Belgium?
[r] In Belgium it is standing up for yourself. So dare to say your opinion, Don’t just let yourself be done. Those are the two things that I find very beautiful.
[i] And is there something you don’t like from Belgian culture?
[r] Eh … I think in Belgium, some people are still very casual about racism, for example. I think that it must be worked on very hard on that. Yes… The Dutch I know say that it is also difficult in the Netherlands. But I do have the feeling and other people who tell me that when they go to the Netherlands that they feel better there at home than in Belgium itself. So I think Belgium can make a lot of progress there in terms of racism, for example.
[i] And have you thought to perhaps try to live in the Netherlands?
[r] Yes. Sometimes I think about that. To live in the Netherlands or in Germany for example. Because I want to try something new.
[i] And you think you Belgium would miss? Do you already have a feeling that you are really a Belgian? Is there something that is important to you here?
[r] I don’t feel Belgian but I don’t feel Chechnyan either. I just feel me. And I think I would certainly miss Antwerp. Yes. Antwerp is very charming. Those houses, those old houses are very nice. And Antwerp is not that big, but it is nice to be here. So I think I would miss it anyway.
[i] Ok. Thank you [name] For this interesting interview. And I wish you good luck with your studies and with your future career.
[r] Thank you.
[i] Thank you.