SU_A_22

[i] [name] can you first introduce yourself?
[r] Hello, I am [name]. I am 21 years old. I was born on February 22, 1997 in Maputu, that is the capital of Mozambique. My parents are Rwandans. And I have 2 sisters, two younger sisters. [name] and [name].
[i] where are your parents?
[r] My parents are from Rwanda. My parents are from Rwanda.
[i] Could you tell me What is the earliest memory you have? From the past. The oldest you can remember?
[r] No, I don’t remember anything. I remember that I went to school, but I had been for six years. Apparently it was in 2000 there were floods for a few days. Long rained in Maputu or in Bowani in Mozambique. And then I was on my father’s shoulders. I remember that, but it was three days, I think rained one after the other. That was in 2000, but I was three years old. I was one of the elders. I was also baptized when I was very young. Think a year and a half. Whether a few months old. But those are so things that I remember because I saw that in the photo. And then I try to remember that moment. That is very difficult. But I remember that when I was about 6 years old I went to school on foot. With friends sometimes, and that was nice.
[i] Back in those memories of the past. In flashes that you might see. Where did you grow up? And I have never been there, and don’t know what that looks like. I have no idea, I am a white young man of Belgium. How can I imagine what that was like? Where you were born and raised. What did that look like? That house, that street, that neighborhood? I’m going to start from the province. Because you have Mozambique on the coast of Africa, so Indian Ocean. There you have Maputu at the very bottom and in Maputu I lived in Patrice Lumumba. Patrice Lumumba is the name of a well -known politician from Congo. And my father happens to be called Patrice. I played that: Patrice lives in Patrice. And my mother’s name was Alice. Patrice and Alice that rhymes. But so Patrice my father, who lived in Patrice. My father had a pharmacy there. Lots of beach. I think orange beach, maybe it was orange because of the sun. A lot of sun. Always 33 degrees, 34. Really so of that, really very warm sun. Almost very years, only in July and August is it cold. But that is 18, 19, 20 degrees cold. But so a lot of beach. My father was first renting. I think from 2000 to 2005 or 2001 to 2005 on a street where different … They are not a row of houses but so Quintaal. How do you say that so Quintaal. A house that you build, a separate house, no floors, everything on the ground. Three rooms. The street it was just sand on the floor. The streets. From where we lived until my father was his work. I think, for 10 minutes, fifteen minutes steps on foot. But my father went by car. And many trees, “koku trees”. What is that? Is that a coconut? Coconut trees.
[i] palm trees.
[r] Yes, many palm trees, but also a lot of mangos too. Almost everyone has Mango trees. Especially fruit and the fruit there automatically becomes ripe. And sometimes there are many that they fall and then we went to ask friends: oh, can I mango with you, can I grapes with you? And then we climb the trees, and then we picked it and we ate it. So we almost never bought fruit, because we had it automatically. At home we had a mango tree. And then we moved to a street that was the case in 2005. But we had bought something like that and built a house there. And that house is still, we have lived there for a long time. But we lived with a large family. Was mum, mama, me, sisters and then such brothers and sisters came from my parents from Rwanda. That, they arrived the year. But they didn’t want to stay in Mozambique, so they went on to South Africa. We were always like that. We never lived with normal parents and children. It was always …
[i] More people.
[r] Yes, cousins.
[i] Can you say something more about those family structures? Who were your brothers and sisters? The names, the parents? Where were they born?
[r] My brothers and sisters?
[i] Yes. My father’s name is Patrice, and he was born in Rwanda in ’62. I have not been to Rwanda personally. He is 11 years older than my mother. My mother is also from Rwanda. After the genocide they fled to Mozambique. First to Congo I think, where they are married, and then to Mozambique where I was born and all my sisters too. My oldest sister was born in ’99. Her name is [name]. My other sister was born in 2007, [name]. We are three and we also lived with cousins ​​in Maputo in Mozambique. I don’t know all my uncles and aunts and cousins, because my father probably 10 brothers and sisters and some died during the genocide. My mother also has so much, but I think I know 2 or 3 on each side or something.
[i] You are the oldest? Always been?
[r] I am the eldest of my father’s children, I am the oldest yes. So I have to give an example and so on, too much pressure.
[i] Do you know where your parents come from? No province, no, I hear things, I have heard things from Botari, but I don’t know the provinces. I’ve never been there you understand. We hope to be able to go to Rwanda soon. Seeing or in the neighborhood, or where I go to my roots personally. It is very important that you go to your roots. See where you come from. If I make it I also want to do something for those people. Build a school or something in the municipality.
[i] in Rwanda then?
[r] in Rwanda, also something in Mozambique. Because I feel so guilt. I have to do something for the people there. I think school is very important because you can learn a lot of things at school. So I hope I have in one way or another … I would also like to work with UNICEF to do something. Because I was also helped by UNHCR or something. Those are those of those blue tents that help refugees. I was born as a refugee.
[i] That is from the Un, the United Nations.
[r] I saw photos, maybe it was in French, they were 5 letters.
[i] That is called UNHCR or something.
[r] I think that my father, my parents helped in Congo then. And that my parents are also married in that tent. I’m there … You were born in a tent of …? Don’t know. My father said that I was born in hospital in “Hospital National de Maputu”. But they lived those tents in Congo. Maybe they made me there. But in ’96 they arrived in Mozambique. I was born in February ’97. We were also helped by priests. My father wanted to be a priest, but then he met my mother and did not succeed. He is still very religious, my father. Christianity, a Christian. We are also Christian, we went to church almost every Sunday. We were raised like this too. But, that’s a bit like that …
[i] There are several things you have said what we will come back to. Because if we go into that now, it is a bit too chaotic. I’m going to try to remember them and so ask more about it in detail. What are the people in Mozambique? Maybe compare a bit with Belgium.
[r] in Mozambique … you have Nigerians, Mozambikans, you have Rwandans in Mozambique. I know many Rwandans who also went to the same church as me, as we do. And those Rwandans went to party almost every Sunday when someone was married. Super big parties. Because those Rwandans have stores like that, they sell food. Usually self -employed and such. I think my father was one of the first generation of Rwandans who arrived there. And then they started selling clothes to build something by little.
[i] were all people who had fled the genocide?
[r] Yes, yes most of them.
[i] are they well received in Mozambique?
[r] I think so, but I don’t know. My father has never received Mozambican nationality while he lived there for sixteen years. I don’t know if he didn’t look for that or not … We have almost never been traveling from outside. It was just working and staying there. I feel partly as a Mozambikaan and partly as Rwandan. You have Mozambikans who, yes, friends. But if I went to live or study far from the city, Then they also saw me as a Mozambikaan. Because I spoke the language, the dialects of Mozambique spoke. Where I knew that my parents were Rwandans, but they sometimes thought they were Burundies. So they called us Burundes. Burundes, and that was exactly a swear word. Because, yes, we are Burundans then, but I wasn’t even Burundes, I was Rwandan. But I thought that if they said Burundes, it was so precisely a swear word. You are not like that of us, you are Burundans. That’s how I grew up and many Mozambikans. But because we were not so poor, there were also people who wanted to become my friends. And because of other interests and such. I remember that I have stolen money from my father, I can’t say that. I was influenced by someone from the neighbors who said of going to steal this from your father. And that I was going to show that and opened it. I hope I’ll ever pay him back. I never discussed that with my father. But I also have that memory of … And then I got beaten, what the fuck why do you do that [name] and he hit me. Also a lot beaten when we were young, yes by … at school that was okay too.
[i] a hard upbringing, was different like here?
[r] It was, yes, I don’t know if that used to be, but there are also people here who used to think that succeeds … Well, I personally think that helps, but not always.
[i] What does family mean to you?
[r] A deep question. Family? Family is living together. Family is … Family is … communication, bond in blood, children, parents, large family. But friends can also be family if they support you in difficult times and such. And neighbors can also be friends, and friends who eventually become family. But family, I don’t know my whole family. And the problem in Rwanda is that I don’t have the same family name as my father, nor as my sisters. My three sisters are from the same parents, but everyone is a different family name. Because, we are first name, usually something in French, and then family name, usually something in Rwandan. So two names. There were three names in Mozambique. First name, middle name and last name. Same as their parents. And when I did that a lot, “[name]”, and then write my father’s surname because I wanted to belong to the Mozambikans. But when I grew then I thought, when I was in fourth, fifth, On the tests I wrote all those three names, but when I saw papers they were two names, [name] just. And [name] means “thanking to God”. [name], thank.
[i] And why didn’t you have your father’s surname? I once asked my father Or to other Rwandans who said it was a problem with genocide. Imagine that your grandparents, sir [name] did something or something. If you ever go to Rwanda, oh, [name] that is that, the ancestor has done something and that you can ever have consequences of your ancestors. Maybe it is also tradition, because if I others Rwandeese see then they usually also have two names.
[i] Or maybe your father had a name of hutu or tutsi or I don’t know what, and maybe if you have a different name, Maybe that is free from those worries?
[r] No, I don’t think so. I don’t think, I don’t know … From Hutu and Tutsi, I don’t know if, I thought that was more in appearance or something. I don’t think you name something … I just see, it’s just Rwandan names. [name], means God, and many people have that family name. My mother was [name], Alice of God. My father is [name], I don’t know what that means. My sister is [name], my little sister, that means being together. That is always something in connection with God, because they are very religious. In Africa many people are very religious because they live in misery and they have something to believe in then they forget that misery. I think it wasn’t something with Hutu or Tutsi. But I think, I believe that the story of that it will probably be something with grandparents. But it can also be the culture, because watch all the Rwandans who are in Rwanda, they all have two names. Also for the genocide I think, the president and everyone. So two names that is the culture there, so …
[i] Bizarre, right that you don’t have the same last name?
[r] Yes. I don’t understand that either. I might go back to Rwanda if I ever go back to Rwanda. That is also country to land. Especially in Western culture they do that. You are my seed, Give you my name too. I don’t know where that comes. I don’t know. I can’t find my family online. I also get messages from people in Rwanda van I am the son of that and the daughter of that, and she is your father’s brother or sister. I don’t know my family, and when my father dies now, Then I have … I know who I know, and the rest yes, sorry. I don’t feel like I know my family and so on. My family is just my father, my mother and the sisters I have. I know that, and the rest is just right for me. Just friends; I have friends at school I have friends of this, I have friends in the movie, or friends YouTube friends. Those are so different groups that I am in that way. I also see everyone as if so … It is difficult for someone who loves to talk about my family or talk about YouTube, so something else is different with everyone. It is hard to go home at home on my YouTube or about my … I also try to choose that other topics that have to do with those people or with what we experience together.
[i] What do you know about the flight of your parents from Rwanda?
[r] I know they first went to Congo, to Congo. It was usually in a group, and probably also on foot.
[i] Tell me as if I would be someone who knows nothing. You explain to me why your parents left Rwanda? What happened there? How or what, why? I don’t know anything about that …
[r] I am going to say what I have seen in the movie and try to link with what I have heard. In ’94 there was a genocide. The president then was Habyarimana, that was a Hutu and he was killed traveling on a plane and it is said that the Tutsi killed him to grab the state, coup. I think the president was later a Tutsi or something. The president who is there has been President almost all my life. And that is not democratic anyway. So the Tutsi killed the Hutu President, and then the Hutus of “Wow they thought our president”. The Hutus were in the majority anyway, they killed our president, They are going to kill us. And then I think of the Hutus Started to kill the Tutsis and the Tutsis started to kill the Hutus. So everyone went each other … but you also have the Elwatwa, another ethnic … I don’t know how that is divided, in provinces or something like Flanders and Wallonia … People said of you can see if someone is Hutu or Tutsi because the Hutu, that is what I also read on the internet … The Hutu are darker, thick and large and the tutsi are lighter and lean and so as the president now. But there are also children of a Hutu and a Tutsi, But what are they then? Are those 50/50 and such? How do you see that that? Those groups began to kill each other. But everything had started because the president was murdered. I recently asked what my father is and they are Hutu, my parents. But I don’t feel a hutu or tutsi, I just feel a bit rwande. But I feel more Mozambikaan. I am also in a group on Facebook Africans and I say allez there is no hutu or tutsi … There are just Rwandans for me.
[i] It’s what you say, because until recently you didn’t even know what you were …
[r] No, no, no, I don’t think that’s important, from Hutu or Tutsi. But it is important to know why did that happen. But Belgium has a lot to do with that and France. And when people ask “Why did you come to Belgium?” Well yes, because Rwanda was a colony of Belgium, and that there are many people … The Belgians are the reason why I lost many of my family members, and France and such. And they can say sorry, but I don’t get this “I hate Belgians and start killing Belgians …” I forgiven them, but I can see people who are my friends. Or I will probably marry someone who has done something to her grandfather or her ancestor. But I forgot that. No stress, no worries. No … no feeling of pain or something. That happened, ok yes. The genocide, the holocaust that is also a bit very dark. But I don’t know, so those big folk murders that happen, I don’t know why that happens. But those are things that stay that way, deep. And people can get psychological problems. I recently read that one in four people, Rwandans suffers from the …
[i] post-traumatic stress.
[r] Yes. At home we are four. Dad, me and two sisters. So one of us or more then those consequences. But, yes. I try to forget that. If I go to Rwanda, I will visit it where that is and so. But my father has experienced a lot. His father was murdered there, and his youngest brother is there too … not with shots or something, with …
[i] Machete.
[r] A machete, wow I have seen that in the film, that doesn’t look so nice.
[i] Hotel Rwanda?
[r] Hotel Rwanda, shooting dogs and then another. Because I went twenty years later … When was that? In 1994, so that was in 2014 I went to the library to look for Rwanda’s genocide and films about it to know more about it. You have more films that are pro-hutu than Pro-Tutsi. But I try to view that as neutral as possible. I think they fled shortly after the genocide. Or in those years. There are many thousands of people, if not millions died from April to July. I think they went to Congo like that. I don’t know how long they have stayed in Congo. And then probably to Tanzania. But my father had just graduated, I think if he had received a scholarship to study somewhere in France or something. I think I had studied it in Marseille. Something with radiography had studied it. And he went to work in Rwanda and then that happened. He had just bought a house in Rwanda.
[i] He was actually young and fairly successful?
[r] Yes, in Rwanda and then that happened. If you are smart, it doesn’t matter where you go You will make something of it anyway.
[i] and your father still has …
[r] Contact in Rwanda?
[i] Yes, among other things or does he still have a bad feeling about it? Do you think it would be difficult for him to ever go back to Rwanda?
[r] He says …
[i] harder than perhaps for you?
[r] for dad?
[i] Yes.
[r] I don’t think so. He wants that anyway. Who wants to see his house, Because some sisters are there. And that life of that house, they rent it out to other people and they use that money for their children there or to survive there. My father wants to see that because what he had bought was getting smaller and smaller a few years ago because people renovate it and such And they take a piece of land from him. And that frustrates him because he is sitting here and cannot do anything there. He probably wants to see and improve that. If I saw what he had, I would like to turn it into an international company, make it into a company. Not like a normal piece of land. But people are very materialistic and I think my father just wants to go to see how things are there and his things. Because he has things there.
[i] A jump in time. Afterwards in Mozambique, life there as you described it was a fairly good life. What has changes to leave there?
[r] Lately close to our street, a Rwandan was murdered. But apparently it was murdered by his wife. His wife had paid people to kill him. Probably a family quarrel or something. Imagine your wife paying so that you are killed. That was very bad and the TV had also come to film. That was very strange and in a bad way, and they also had children together. Probably killed for wealth. My father stole his car in 2007. It had an automatic car. No manual, but an automatic, and you just had to put it on D. It was nice, it was new. Someone had stolen it and he didn’t believe that then. It was also Rwandans who put it under each other, from the successful then. My father usually did not drive the car, because he usually had a driver who drove and such. They probably made a Masterkey that can open all cars.
[i] At that time your father had a pharmacy? Yes, he had a pharmacy, but not only with another man. They were partners because they had also studied in Rwanda together, they also knew each other. They are still good friends. They had opened that pharmacy together. And that man now has almost 10 pharmacies in Maputo or almost in very Mozambique. It is called Africa pharmacy. Then that Africa 1, 2 and 3 … And other names in every other district in Maputo.
[i] So the car was stolen?
[r] Then they wanted it and not found, the first day. Because they went looking in the Maputo Ciudade. While it went to Matola, that is the other side towards Swaziland and such. And then they no longer found it and then my father bought a second -hand car. Years later. That started to get unsafe. My father is too … People continue to wait for him when he came after work. But on that day he did not arrive at eleven or midnight, but he arrived a little later around one o’clock or two o’clock. And those people said to him, ah that took a long time to get here and then my mother was there and my father just drove on. The streets were small, and then those people started to follow him and he said they shot behind his car. He thought they were going to kill him then too. It became unsafe and it wasn’t always … The Mozambikans said they were Rwandans. There were also Rwandans who were jealous of … And sometimes there have also been riots when the price of the bread rose and the price of the bus rose. I saw that instead of arguing for the Ministry of Food or the Ministry of Work, the Mozambikans, classrooms went the stores of Rwandans are going to break and Nigerians also had stores. The local Mozambikans started to open that to steal food there and so … And then I thought they are really focusing on foreigners, on Rwandans and such. The police were there, but it did almost nothing. Sometimes you had to pay the police so that they came to defend your store. That was really ridiculous. I experienced that and saw all. I am once my mother’s store, people have to open that, but it was really closed. They wanted to open that, but that didn’t work. And one of my uncles had taken a machete. I was really so “huh, huh”. You panic, because people want to … Why do they want to steal or open our things? Then he has good people, just those there, who have taken him and: don’t do that. Those people are a lot. They can take that machete and then use it against you. That was very bizarre. And when my mother died in 2011. And then really my father was no longer sitting. His mother, my father’s, she died. Then a year later his father also died. My father was very scared because we didn’t have family and so on. We did have a big one … but yes, I was 14 to 15 years old. If he died a year later after our mother, I would be 15 years old. And then I would … What would I do then? Even though we were rich … You are stupid, you are super young, you want to enjoy. And then he made the choice to leave everything behind and go to another country where the future is safer, say. Or where the government would do something if it would die for us. Although I see it anyway. If he die the government wouldn’t you … There are things with dead that are probably you can, so that you can graduate. But in Maputo, see yourself. I also become independent in Mozambique in Mozambique, also opening a store. That’s what I saw. When I arrived in Belgium I thought, there is another way open. I can make a lot, I can be more creative. I was always creative. When my mother died I had to process that in one way or another and then I started writing texts, rap. I started raping in Portuguese, and that helped me to process that.
[i] Do you have a lyrics or song?
[r] I have songs online in the Portuguese that I wrote.
[i] Do you have a text or a piece? A text not necessarily about my mother, but about … They were usually American instruments that I used … something of text? I may have something on my cell phone But I don’t know or on my laptop. Not such a text no, they were usually punch lines. So cleverly handle text and such. Puzzling, rhymes, many rhymes. I also wrote when I lost my mother I felt it was my fault because I didn’t talk to her in the last days. When she went to hospital I was laughing with my friends. It was the last minute, the last few weeks I have massaged her feet and such. She asked that. She was also very religious in the Iglesia Universal. That is a Brazilian church where such a pastor prays and you also ask you 10 percent of your entrance to give every month. And my mother went there once and then she came from: “I was healed”. I was really happy with it; “What? Does the church really work?” And then I believed that. But the sea then watched the TV, because from midnight until seven in the morning it came on TV. She looked that and she believed, because people: “I don’t go, I can walk now”. Like that of those things. I thought: “Is that real? Mama is healed, And she is happy and so. ” They probably had prayers for her. And then three days later she was In bed again and she could no longer get out of bed and such. But yes, she said I will die. I said, “Mama, no you’re going to live for a long time. I was fourteen then. Yes, I completely massaged her feet, I remember that. I don’t know. I think she has lost a lot of blood in the hospital. I hate hospitals, I don’t like hospitals much. I think if you go to a hospital, you die. You don’t get alive from that. And when she was sick, my father did not first go to hospital. Because he was a pharmacist, her insulin or something or in water has given. And she was in bed there with getting that and so on. And then she went.
[i] Your mom had a lingering disease? Was she sick for a long time? Or short? I don’t know how long she was sick, but she became thinner and thinner. I don’t know if she ate. But we were young and they didn’t say anything to us of what they are ill …
[i] have they kept that secret? Yes, yes. I don’t know if that was good, but I would have preferred them to have said that. Because I had enjoyed the last moments with her. If you know something, then you are ready. When they went to the hospital, and my father came back, they came in car. When he returned I said; “Where is Mama?” Mama went to the hospital and I thought of okay I have to go. I am going to go tomorrow morning, and my cousins ​​had come and we had prayed together in the morning. Around four to five o’clock my father came back to the hospital for a day. He came to me and just gave me a hug. And then I knew, yes mama is coming back. I knew that. It was the first time my father cuddled me, I think if I remember.
[i] Do you still pray?
[r] Vienna?
[i] Pray. Or you still pray sometimes?
[r] Pray. If I have exams. If I didn’t learn well.
[i] In which language do you pray? Nowadays I try Dutch or in Portuguese. Usually it is in Portuguese, I think.
[i] What do you say then?
[r] When I eat then I say: “Deus obrigado pa la comida”. Then I thank, thanks for the food, thanks to keep us strong, Give us strength so that I do my exams well. Amen. Then I say something like that. But I go to church less and less.
[i] Have you always gone to church in Belgium? In the beginning. When I went Mozambique, we also had young people, but I went to Belgium, old people. I thought in church I will meet beautiful girls. Probably my future girlfriend who is also religious and then we get married. Nobody, old people. I thought this is not motivating.
[i] Which church did you go to in Belgium?
[r] We went to ordinary church, Catholic Church, of the congregation or the city. My father went there to pray, so that we were going to be well received in Belgium and also continue to believe. But I got older and Christianity, but I think … I tried the combination of the real world and … I still believe in God, and that we are here by God in one way or another. I still believe that very deep. That doesn’t stop me to enjoy life or enjoy … And in Mozambique, the lifestyle of Mozambikans is also the same, partying and making music. That is also the same as here. The problem is that there, even though we were all black, they focus on you as a foreigner. Especially where you lived, they knew that. Here in Belgium, yes, I strike hard anyway. And that’s okay, I’m an African. But I also feel more like a world citizen now. I don’t feel like Rwandan, Mozambikaan or Brazilian or Belgian. I just feel like a world citizen. Can I call Theo Francken?
[i] No censorship.
[r] No censorship, explicit content.
[i] Yes, please.
[r] So in 2013 we came to Belgium …
[r] When you left Mozambique to Belgium, do you remember the day?
[r] Yes, that had to happen quickly. And we were not allowed to say goodbye to nobody or not saying that we were going to Belgium. So I said I’m going to study to South Africa, Against my best friends and yes I will come during the holidays. But I also didn’t know we could stay in Belgium. So we went, we came to Belgium by plane. It was very cold in Belgium and I didn’t expect that. I didn’t look for it again and so. That was at the beginning of 2013, when we arrived in Belgium, it was snowing. It was the first time I saw snow in real life too. I know we at Noordstation then, If we started requesting asylum so the morning after then and so on. And there …
[i] You came with a tourist visa? Or what kind of visa? I don’t know, we had a passport. I have not seen or kept it personally and so on. It was all with my father. But then I didn’t see the passport anymore. It was all, a smuggler, I think something like that. Pays people to come. It wasn’t so we come as a tourist or we come as a visitor and such. But then I didn’t know that. I then followed my father and such.
[i] But it was with a normal plane?
[r] Yes, a normal plane. Oh, hard done. First to South Africa. And then in South Africa, what had to be difficult to do in Africa itself within the plane. Other Africans: Where are you going, what are you going to do there? Everyone was just whites in line, we were in between, they kept us apart. And they left everyone, and then: yes, we will almost miss it. No, no, no. Then a man comes to check our passport. Yes, where are you going? Belgium … Bruxelles … So arrived there. Then we were allowed. I was really angry because I saw that they were discriminating against us so in line. What the fuck? Why do you stop us? I dared, but my father was a bit scared and waiting for them to say something. They then let us in and then we went on the bus as the last, bus went to the plane. Then we were on the plane. First and only so far in an airplane. That didn’t feel good. And then when we arrived in Brussels, we no longer had our suitcases. I said: and our suitcases? And we said that will take that later. We left for avenues, losses. My father said: we’ll go after it someday. I was trying to remember: “What was in those suitcases that I am so important …?” Don’t take that much, okay I take those clothes. Real Madrid pants, I just took T-shirts. So little taken and also a chessboard and such. And then they said it’s too much. Leave all of the sisters in one suitcase. And then we arrive here and we don’t even take those suitcases. It is better that I had left everything there. I just had that bookbag, I still had it. Then we applied for asylum. And then they sent us to Limburg. The asylum application was also in a row in the morning and so cold and then scan more clothes and then they scan your body. I thought what the fuck is this. I think we applied for asylum on February 20, Because two days later my father had his first interview and it was the day it was my birthday. I had my sixteenth birthday in Brussels. It was the worst birthday ever, because I went to Brussels with my father from Limburg. And then I was there at the North Station so alone. Yes, I am sixteen. Yes, my Sweet Sixteen, it was the opposite of Sweet Sixteen. When I was fifteen in Mozambique, my friends took so eggs, when someone’s birthday, eggs hit his head, sand on his … It was real, you had to walk far, they celebrated your birthday. But then I was there at the North Station. Were people who also just arrive, usually sleeping, so real at the entrance. There I, my father was taking on the interview, and I wasn’t because I wasn’t that old yet. But I had gone with my father to see by train and such. It was switching from Limburg in Overpelt and Zo, there we were in the Center Valkenhof. But so yes, that’s my sixteenth birthday. And then my father also took a second interview a few months later. But yes, I couldn’t go on Facebook either, nothing had to say. Because, yes, Africans are also a lot … If you say something that is not happening yet, it can have bad, bad influence or giving bad chance and such. They are often the case … I don’t want to remember, but my girlfriend and ex at the time. My ex … I had money on my cell phone, so from calling credit. I just sent everything to her so suddenly. And so: why do you send that? I said: just yes. And the school started the week after actually. It was all so fast. I couldn’t have said goodbye to her either. It was a part of my life that I left behind, so fifteen years bye bye. From the plane I saw Africa and such. But I thought I will come back someday. When Belgium it was completely different. The weather was different anyway. If you are going to travel somewhere, look it again first. See which clothes you need. I came … imagine that I would come up with this. That’s not good. I thought it is just as hot everywhere. Then I have … if you travel then you will get smarter. Then I thought of: O. In detail is warm, then it is the other way around. Then you start so … If you see it or experience things, then you know that. Then you can link and such. So the weather is very important when you travel somewhere. But requesting asylum, we have done them they have taken fingerprint, name of our things and such. I don’t know what my father said of, in our file. But yes, they first gave our paper. Okay go to Centrum in Valkenhof in Neerpelt. It was almost a border municipality with the Netherlands, all the way in Limburg.
[i] Did your father spoke English.
[r] My father does not speak English, he speaks French. I also thought Belgique, that’s French. So in We had Frans at school at school. I took all my papers from French … I had to do something about the 2012 Olympic Games, I think it was in France. And I was the best in French in my class. But my French was so broke. Not really super, but I was the best in Mozambique in my class of French. I then took all those papers from French, I will learn that, I will practice that in Belgium. And then we were on the train; “We arrive in Neerpelt Station”. I hear that and shit. I can’t do French so well, but this is not a French at all. And you also look on the train, some flat land and such. France is Paris … what is the … do you understand? Or Belgique, that must be city like Brussels. And there was just cows and green, I thought: we are probably in the wrong country. And then wait in the station, it’s really small, so nothing. But in Mozambique we didn’t have a train or train station. […] Then such a person came to take us to the center, and we lived there for four months. Learn Dutch there at school. In March we started going to school until June, vacation. But after four months you can request asylum and house if you have a large family. So then they gave us a house in Izegem. They don’t take us there, so we had to go to Izegem ourselves. So we had one room with four beds. My father, we all slept in the same room. And there I started my YouTube channel, I think.
[i] in Izegem?
[r] No, no, no in the center. I remember the last days, the last months of 2012 in Mozambique I looked a lot at Photoshop. How do you take a vampire with a photo that you … Hair does, how do you get the teeth with the Photoshop Tools, and how do you change color from the eyes to red and such. So I was looking for that in Portuguese. Then I also started … I was looking for something if I had a problem. How do you install a new font on computer? Then I searched that, and if I knew that I made a video of it and posted it on my YouTube channel. And always about Photoshop and computers. I was looking for a problem and then I made a movie about that. So people instead of looking for the video, they also looked at mine, because mine was usually shorter. But it was really brackish quality. It is still on YouTube, you can hear so bad audio. But I did so so much because I couldn’t be busy with music, but I still had to be creative to forget that we were there and was bored. So every time after school I made a movie in Portuguese about Photoshop. And then we went to live in Izegem. In 2013, in the summer in July. In Izegem I didn’t know how long we went to live there, but we lived there for four years. I obtained my diploma there. If I know, I would have searched a friend then. Because you don’t dare to look for a friend, make a connection with someone, because you don’t know how long this will take … I thought of normal you shouldn’t think about that and just start something and then you see. But I didn’t dare I was uncertain because maybe I should leave the country in 2016 because we also got negative. I think 2017 I started working for the first time, or 2016, I would have done a holiday job. Or maybe in 2015 … a neighbor knew … I was seventeen or almost eighteen. Or nineteen, I don’t remember. How old was I when I did my first holiday job? I think it was then 2015 was. Because the neighbor said, I know that place, it was a restaurant. And then I had to do the dishes, and that was very nice because I was also busy with something else. And I also continued to make youtube videos. I was also very afraid of doing YouTube, because I thought if I do youtube, Then I have to film my life. And you don’t want to film your situation in the center, that’s not nice. On YouTube people always show beautiful things of watching, oh my car, look like this … What the fuck, you are not going to show depressive shit, because nobody should see that. It was very difficult to think … I make movies … I thought you know, the first photoshoplesses were without a camera, it was just taking the screen and my voice just.
[i] In the asylum center. How was that there for you there?
[r] The asylum center. Many Afghans, young Afghans who were without parents. They usually went to play football and such. I also wanted to play football, but I was not allowed to go in the car. My father had to do everything for me than if I wanted to play football. He had to register me there, and see how to go there by bike. It was nice that we ate together. We had hours to eat. s In the morning, in the afternoon and in the evening. Everyone came and every room had a table where you were together. And Wednesday after school it was chicken with salad and fries, that was the best day. I didn’t understand why they had half a day at school. But it was cool. Quick cycling from school to it Center to eat those fries. You also knew on Wednesday is fries and meat day eating again. It was very nice. And the different cultures when we played football in the center with other young people. It was nice because we also had a field, a football field. And there we played football, and even when I was in the OKAN, reception class for foreigners newcomers. There are Poles, Afghans and Africans, all playing football together. It is football that brings people together. It was nice to see those various young people doing something together. But also, yes, you also learn a little more about other cultures because we lived there, Africans than with Muslim women who are completely covered or with other young people. Sometimes a fight arose, but you also have assistants who are there to guide things. And every room also had one week to work, that they have to clean the entrance, or have to do a task and then they get a little money from the center. I think 2.5 euros a day or something, I know a lot that was. It was cool and we had a TV there. Oh, Champions League I also looked at so much. We sit there with others so football in the evening. 2b, I also got to know the channel 2b there. That has probably also changed its name. That is Q2 now. You had a movie there almost every night and they spoke English, I couldn’t English, but I read the subtitles in Dutch, and that also helped to learn Dutch quickly. The little things … we also had internet there. And then I could log in again on Facebook and see the friends. Many messages from [name], where are you? In Portuguese … Yes, send to Belgium, because I was in Belgium for six months or a few months. Then I could, about that, I couldn’t see it anymore, but I did not dare face-to-face against my friends: it is true, but I am here. But they already knew. I had also made a song with the title “DIDJAR”, Reizen. And that was for my girlfriend. I said: “Sorry baby, I have to travel from my dad, I have to become a doctor “. That was really the case … I had made that song with two other people. And when she listened to that song from: o, [name] really meant what he said in that song. Those are so secretly things that you do and not say. But if someone watches it, then it makes the connection.
[i] Were you not angry with your dad that you had to leave?
[r] I was angry that I was not allowed to go behind those rates. Still a bit actually because, I don’t know what was in those rates, but I know something was important. Where are the photos of my girlfriend and me. We had many photos together. I don’t know what was in it. Things they give me … The most expensive T-shirt that my mother ever bought for me was also in those rates.
[i] Why did you not want to get or search for father those rates?
[r] Because probably was dangerous or something that they were going to see us.
[i] Maybe that wasn’t …
[r] Yes, yes, yes, also from: we are here, come, we are not going to go back. They are probably going to be difficult and the police come from what you come to do … It was more difficult if you say you are coming to visit someone. In Africa they can’t check that. But if you say you are coming to visit someone here, here they can check that., You understand. I think if you travel to a country, you must have reason or something. I don’t know, because I have never traveled with a plane. They say, “Why are you coming here?” I come for a festival. Or I come for … I don’t know, think. But he had such a vague reason. In the asylum center as you describe it for you as a 15-year-old boy that was an adventure. For your father that was probably not an adventure?
[r] Oh, my father was really an opponent who … I think it probably also experienced something in Congo. Don’t know. That … I don’t know what happened in Congo in the asylum center, but it had trauma, or scared. Or scared, especially to the girls than that other guys may then deal with. I think a bit of concern as a parent. But for me, I would not do anything criminal there or deal something or deal with drugs or something. No, I wouldn’t do that in such a center. No, no, no. There is nothing, isn’t it? You cycle, your sport, you shower, you … with other people you don’t know.
[i] Afterwards life in Izegem, when you arrived there?
[r] That was good neighbors. If you have good neighbors who touched us. Where is the Aldi? Because we knew to buy the Aldi of things to eat. They immediately took us to the store the first day. […] With their car, and that was far.
[i] You have good memories of Izegem?
[r] Izegem yes, if I have to choose a house in Belgium, then that would probably be Izegem.
[i] You would think, that’s a small village … wasn’t that difficult?
[r] Yes, but I sometimes went to wash once when someone came: “How does it feel to be the only black on the street?” Or in the street or something. I didn’t know what to answer. I said, “Yes, it feels good.” The only Africans here. But they were also others … it was very far, but West Flanders … I love that … of that rural feeling. If I am old, I would like that. But now that I am so young, I want in the city in Brussels. So busy and such creativity … But if I want to rest like that, I would go to West Flanders. Really total peace and such. That’s cool.
[i] How did you decide to continue studying after your studies?
[r] That was by chance. I first went to Bruges or Kortrijk. Or to the Vives of Howest because I had my diploma in 2017. I thought, okay, 2017, if you continue to live in Izegem, I will not go to Ghent anyway, because I knew I couldn’t do it or I was allowed to go from my father. Don’t go on a room and such. So I went to see where we live, and what is close by … So I had to help you choose things during your last year. So I had a few options. Creative things, and also things with technology. I wanted that, I know for sure. So I went to the open house of Vives in Kortrijk to see for design, programs, Photoshop and technical things. Making drones or programming things I started to see. Or in Howest was also something computer science, IT. Then I thought I can restore computers and laptops if they are broken. But in the sixth my teacher had said, [name] do nothing with math … I had that in my head, seeing something that has no math. And then, four years after Izegem, we had to leave the social house, had to go to Brussels. I don’t know why it is, but I think it was something from Theo Francken that he had said with people centralizing or something. So I thought everyone who was still in an asylum procedure had to live in the center of Brussels.
[i] You had to go to Brussels? Yes, we had to go to Brussels. It was not our choice. No, no. We had to go there.
[i] From Izegem to Brussels?
[r] Yes […] It was very happy for me just because I had just graduated. I thought why this happens. And also that I had done the fifth again and it worked out well. I thought, okay, Brussels, I have more choice which school. So in the center. Oh, here, the Ritcs was also one of the schools that I had in things, in the school’s brochure … In which direction, then I thought … Ah, I’m busy with YouTube … Image, sound and assembly. There will also be cameramen or with film, because I filmed almost every week. Filming things about my daily life. I thought assembly I like, so those puzzles. I also had “the smartest person” in Izegem Get to know, with Eric van Looy and Zo. And then I was watching and I thought of wow. It was the penultimate episode. Then that was done and I wanted to know who was going to win, you understand. Then I thought, the person who mounts that, probably already knows that already. I want to mount “the smartest person”. That’s why I am going to study assembly, if I then assemble who the winner is. Then I am not going to say it to nobody and everyone is waiting at home while I know. So … That is one of the reasons why I went to Ritcs. There was an admission test, and I didn’t work all that summer. But worked on the … Because I took that very seriously. I have seen many Flemish films, I searched for information about the RITCS, saw that Stijn Coninx was there. I started to see Stijn Coninx films. So in all the … you have to say why you want to study there and which programs do you find cool and such. Make a mood board with your favorite movies. So I did all that and so did Stijn Coninx, From yes, because I knew he was working there. So just mentioning things to make with school. But I had also seen a lot of Flemish films. I thought that was very cool that films were made in Flanders. In Africa where I lived it was not, especially fiction not made, Or probably yes, but I didn’t know that. So then, we just thought in Brussels, we are not going to study in Bruges or Kortrijk. I thought I do that admission test and then I was inside the Ritcs. They asked why we should let you through and not the others? I said yes I am different Look everyone is different, everyone is just creative … So you have to involve everyone. I think it is important that we have different visions of different people on one subject. That was what I said of, to the jury of the RITCS. And he said: oh, beautiful, good. I thought, yes, okay We also had a photo assignment and I was inside and now I am in the second year on the RITCS Montage. I am also tired of that here in Belgium.
[i] Why did you have to move from Brussels again and to where? From Brussels to?
[r] Now we have moved from Brussels to Geraardsbergen.
[i] Why didn’t you stay in Brussels?
[r] Why don’t we live in Brussels? So in Brussels … when we had in Brussels, we had an orange card … That’s not official … That is a document that you have to extend every three months or every month. But on August 1, in August 2018 we received papers. What is that? A certificate that we are registered as refugees somewhere here in Belgium. So Belgium accepts us as refugees. So I think they protect us as refugees when we are abroad or something. So we have a card where that stands up. If you get that then you can no longer live in a social house, then you have to look for your own house. Try to improve your life then. Then I am not a refugee who cannot work or cannot do anything. You have to try to do something then. My father has searched for a house, all summer I think. He had also seen something in Liedekerke, was not allowed or other places. They always asked to see the income of the last three months and such, and because he is unemployed, it could not show that. But then they found a house in Geraardsbergen. In Geraardsbergen they have found a house from other African family. And they wanted to rent to us. A fairly large house with three to four bedrooms. My sister who is almost ten or eleven years old: I no longer want to sleep with her other sister, also sleep separately and such. It was the first time that we finally have a bedroom.
[i] How was life in Brussels? The change from Izegem to Brussels? Was that fun or did that give more problems? Were you more anonymous because there are more foreigners? How was that in Brussels?
[r] Brussels was more chaotic, beautiful, French, Lots of French. On the street everywhere is just French. In the beginning I had to look so hard for places where they spoke Dutch. When I learned Dutch I started hating French. I hate French, I hate French speaking. I don’t know, I really feel like a Flemish when I hear so French. What the fuck, and especially in Brussels. Then why don’t they speak Dutch, it makes me so angry while when I came to Belgium I thought in Belgium they just speak French. That is very strange that I …, but I can do French. Je parle Français. Je peux parler Français. [I speak French. I can speak French.] Mais en Brussel tu doit parler les deux langues.[ But in Brussels you have to speak the two languages.] You have to speak the two languages. No, no, no, nothing against the French speakers. Frans is much bigger and much more international than Dutch. People also come from the train so much, people talk to me on the street automatically they appeal to me French. Also the conductors and such: “Bonjour”. No, I speak Dutch, come on, do it normally. But you have to get used to that, Dutch. Brussels is more life, in the summer there is always something to do. Also in the winter there are always parties on the street. I have found the library in Brussels, The largest library and that is Dutch. Both Dutch -speaking and French -speaking libraries. So if I went to that Dutch -speaking person, I had no friends there or something, but I started choosing Flemish films there, Look to learn a little about the culture … What has already been done here? If I want to do something new, what should I do? And choose books. There was also internet in the library. I like libraries. Libraries are the most beautiful places where you can rest, sit and learn something. That was the only place where I still felt good, so to speak in Flanders. Also in the station, because you hear Dutch. But everywhere and all shops, French … Everything is French in Brussels. But now I know a few organizations, I started volunteering at the Flemish Youth Council. That was also in Dutch. Then I started doing volunteer work at various organizations and so I have more Discovered Dutch -language places in Brussels. There are, because Brussels is bilingual. In the summer there is always something to do in Brussels. You had a market in Izegem. Nobody cycles. Everyone after school went home or they went sports. But I didn’t do that from sports, I cheat, I did chess in Izegem. But in Brussels no …
[i] The adjustment to Belgium went well. You speak Dutch, French and things are going well at school. You have done a lot in a short time. You will feel good. But how was your father? Was it different for your father?
[r] Yes, because he doesn’t want to talk about that either. Then I can’t really know that. But what I see, I think that … Depression is anyway. He also tries to hide … It is still not crying of men’s mentality. I don’t know if it is trying to show that it is strong so that I stay strong, but it is also very stubborn. I tell him, “If you want help, say it, I’m going to help you. With what I can help you.” He is still going to do groceries alone on foot. If he says it to me, I can also go and wear things. But he doesn’t say that, he is very closed. While I am more open, and I talk about feelings and I try to lie less as possible, say. You don’t have to lie, or you shouldn’t tell the whole truth, or something, but communication is very important. I asked in the beginning, we have to make rules at home who does the dishes, when and so of those little things of what are we going to cook. If we know from Monday we will cook this, and Tuesday this, until Sunday. Then you just have to buy the same every week, And then everyone knows what is expected of them. But he is so much we will see what we do … There are days when there are dishes while I did not eat at home and I come from school, and I wonder why there is so much washing up. And after two or three days I think I am going to wash it and then I was everything. And is still […] there, but nobody … There are no rules. Perhaps that is because there is no mother figure to organize that. I say from, “Daddy, you have to try to do that.” He doesn’t want that and he just buys things. Always eat rice and fries and beans and it always cooks the same, because it doesn’t know what it should cook. There is no spaghetti once, it simply cooks what is there. He always buys beans, because those beans like because his parents probably made that in the past. That is improvisation, you can see that we are now a lot of improvising. If you start cooking every day, food will also break. Because there is no … I think structure is very important. Had to be a structure of we are going to do this, do this, so long. Then I can calculate what is needed when and so. But he tries, he said, “You can only say that I am not a man if I can no longer pay school for you.” He pays the school for me and the transport, and so on those things. But I don’t know how difficult it is for him. What I see is that he has no work and until when can he be able to pay the rent and pay school for us … I say, “Do I have to stop school and then look for work, or combine that?” Do I have to do a driver’s license now? We also don’t get a pocket money or something. When I asked that, he said: if I am rented my houses in Africa in Mozambique then I can get money and give you. No, no, no. Only when we asked that and such, Only then … I said: you can’t even buy underwear for yourself “. That was the moment I thought of what the fuck, ok I’m going to look for work. That was the moment that I got the strength to look for work and hard work it is. And non-stops and since then I have not stopped working and volunteering. Just being busy with something, then you don’t think about those problems.
[i] your daddy, who wants to work as a pharmacist?
[r] who did not want to work as a pharmacist, Because that’s not what he studied, it was radiography. But I say yes that is not possible, because you don’t speak the language or you have to know people. I think you have to start from below, volunteers can also start with this … He had been to UZ Gent a few times and probably knows a good doctor who was going to help him, but when we had been negative, then stopped. But he wants to do something with his diploma. But his diploma is long ago and that is now very … With computers and such. So he now learns to work a bit with computer and with smartphone, recently has a smartphone and WhatsApp and such for almost one year. He is trying to understand that now. Because the technology is now changing a lot, he would have to learn something. He speaks French, I think he would work super well in Brussels or Wallonia. I think he shouldn’t think he wants to do something with his diploma but be open to everything. But yes, we are difficult, my sister is 10-11 years old, she is not allowed to go to school alone. My father takes her, and especially in Izegem we only had 1 key and always had to be someone to take her back. It was often combining. Our father said: I am your father and mother at the same time. Now I am older and older, to be independent, And I had a fight with Dad. With 16.17, 18 and 19 years, so doubt to leave home and start a life of its own without worries. Sometimes you have to detach tires from something that stops you in order to continue. But I thought I don’t want my sisters to go back in the future and that they say: where is that bad brother or brother who left us. And then we had no papers yet, That was the most difficult time. I was exactly a pussy … We come together here, ok we stay together. I thought everything should happen automatically.
[i] The day you received papers, was that a Turning Point?
[r] my father … I was in school and my father called, o, We have positive! I thought what? I was really happy because when I also had the news I had that I could start on the VRT-Next and so in the summer. And when it was so at the end of May, but the problem was that we were moving again from Brussels to Koekelberg. And when my exams started and that I couldn’t study well during the relocation period. I didn’t feel like moving during the exams. But I almost always have to move during the exams. You lose a lot of time by cleaning up and taking your things. I thought: no, let me concentrate on something. And that is why I wanted to live something alone and something to choose. I’m here, I’m going to study, I’m going to make my schedule myself. That’s why I wanted that. But, so positive … yes, but after five years you think fuck yes … The worst would be that we have to leave the country … Wow? After all that effort and then we got positive. I am getting happy, but then you think: okay, I will probably be allowed to work more now, but I was already allowed to do that with limitations and such. All I haven’t done yet is that I can now go abroad. I really want to go to the Netherlands, preferably before the year, eat a good KFC.
[i] Have you not been to the Netherlands yet?
[r] No, no, no.
[i] since you are in Belgium? Have not been to the Netherlands yet?
[r] No, no, no.
[i] But that’s around the corner …
[r] No not yet. I went to Paris once to France with school. You have those GP so weeks with the school. But then the following year we were no longer allowed, because our papers were no longer valid. I have that in August and it is now October. I want to go to the Netherlands with those guests in one of these weeks, check Efkes in Amsterdam. That is so close. I am thinking, either by train or being able to go by bus. What is cheaper and better and so … But I want to go to the Netherlands this year and probably as many European countries as possible next summer. Because now that is allowed, now that is allowed, now I am someone. But I was born as a refugee and I hope to die as a king. That’s a song. I was born as a refugee, but I want to die like a king.
[i] is that a new song?
[r] No, no, no. That is a line that I thought in my head. But I am thinking how I can link that. I was born as a refugee. If I write a book about my story, it will be the title. But, I want to die like a king … I don’t know if that should come afterwards Or at the end. It must be such a link. King … What is King? Someone who looks up to everyone, Whether it lives well. With a big large seat with lions and all. Such a king of the jungle. Do you understand, the king has everything for himself. But a refugee is someone on the way … If you are born like a refugee on the road and then you die like a king, then that is … that must be super. I think I will never be a king, because that is in the family. That must be in family. That’s a comparison. What does a king do? Everything is done for him. If you have already achieved a lot and have helped many people, that is also a life like a king. That I didn’t have to worry about eating at home, being able to rent from my house, Being able to pay rent, that you buy a house … or maybe a castle. A king lives in a castle eh. A castle is ridiculous … those are materialistic things. The most important thing is being happy.
[i] Have you always been happy since you left Mozambique? Not in the beginning. But most of all, I am a fairly positive person. I always try to see the positive in the people. Until I met N-VA … Then it didn’t work anymore … also the media and all those negative things. With IS and SO, those attacks. When I lived in Brussels, when I am in the tram or metro, I think who are the people who were in the tram when they exploded. Because I saw that in the news blood and so … But they are always so busy, and if that explodes … You see everyone, children, women, Young people, French speakers, foreigners, tourists … You see everyone in that metro, tram, everyone like that. If I was in Brussels like that, I was trying to think of … When that attack was who was all …? I try to look at the faces in no time and I think: imagine this explodes now? From wow … What happens … I don’t know. Yes, I don’t know. Life is something strange, so, that just like that … Islamic State is, that’s not good what they do.
[i] If you make an analysis … How different did you become from when you were in Mozambique?
[r] I am older. My father says Europe has changed us. I think it’s just the age. In Mozambique we had a father relationship so aloof. I just went to my father to ask for money and permission. Now too, but less permission because he always said no. So at a time when I say 17, 18, I never ask him again. I am no longer saying where I am going. He has my number, and if he needs me, just call me. That is a click that I was awarded in my head. Why do I have to ask permission if he starts saying no. I say, I am going to go my father, to my father if I just need money from him. When I say money, I have money for school, look that is this … Then I show that. Or there is a problem of something, but I am not going with my personal problems so to him, because … I asked him: “Why isn’t you open? Why do I feel like I can’t go to you? ” He didn’t know how to answer. But I don’t feel that I can trust him. He doesn’t give me that sense of safety. That’s why I hardly talk to him. But I think the older you get the better you can deal with your father. I am still going to stay his child, but it will probably be difficult for him to be open to you or to talk to you about everything and such. But he also said when our mother died: I’m not going to look for another woman and so on. Yes, I don’t want to … he will probably treat you badly. But he has to do something that makes him happy … If you think a woman can make you lucky, we will also be happier. What I would like is to make it Belgian Dream. Making and then probably buying a house for my father, or a house where we are all going to live together. And that he can work and enjoy his last days, because he also fled a lot … from Rwanda, Congo, Mozambique … That also does something to someone if you can’t stay stable in one place like that, you can’t develop well, or not well, yes …
[i] Another chapter, something completely different that we have not yet talked about. Have you ever had to deal with forms of discrimination in Belgium?
[r] Anyway, I am very aware of that because I know I am black. Sometimes I forget that I am black because you don’t have to think much about that. But sometimes, if it is something small, I will see who the person has done that. Ah yes, a racist. Then you think that automatically, and especially in public transport. In public transport, on the train, in the metro or on the tram. And then nobody comes to sit next to you. They prefer to stand, because … while there is room … ahh a racist. I, when I’m seat, I don’t stand I’m sitting next to that person. But yes, if there is room. In Africa we had to fight like this to go on the bus and all kept stuck so. And here … I have not yet experienced discrimination immediately, I think. When they speak on TV about refugees, I feel that they are probably talking about me. Someone immediately came to call like that: “Profileers.” That has not happened yet. But the people think so. Who will dare to say that?
[i] There are people in Antwerp who do … Yes, in Antwerp. Antwerp people have a big mouth. I hate Antwerp residents, oh my god. No, cut sorry! I don’t hate Antwerp people. Antwerp people dare … but the Dutch have a big mouth. They say immediately, but Belgians are still too sweet. They can think so, but they usually don’t say that. Sometimes they can say and hurt you … but imagine, I am from the left and you are from the right … We can talk. Why do you believe that? Because I think those people are coming to take advantage. Why? They get money from … but you used to know what it was like? All that gold comes from here in Belgium from Africa. Ah, yes? Yes, and through slaves … My ancestors were slaves. I didn’t know that? This way you can talk about that in a normal way. But there are people who are not open. I think so, and that’s the best way. You must be open to other opinions. Listen by both and then make your own opinion. That’s the most important thing.
[i] We are almost there. What is your relationship with your country of origin?
[r] What do you mean? Mozambique or Rwanda?
[i] you know that?
[r] I don’t know. I don’t feel like Rwandan at all. My father is angry that we don’t feel Rwandan. I feel Mozambikaan. Mozambique … Moçambique, nossa Terra Gloriosa [Mozambique, our glorious land] Pedra a pedra construindo o novo dia [Rock by rock building the new day] Milhões de braços numa só força [Millions of arms in one only force] Ó Pátria Amada, vamos vercer. [O beloved fatherland we will be successful] That is the hymn national of Mozambique. Pátria Amada. That’s … What is that? anthem what is that?
[i] National anthem.
[r] National anthem. of Mozambique, indeed. That is the national anthem of Mozambique and we always sang that before we went to class. Every time with the flag of Mozambique so up, all of all, all classes in a row. When we went to another school, we went praying before we went to class. But not here in Belgium. You see the football players and they don’t know the national anthem. I don’t know … it’s less nationalistic. I think that’s very much … I would love to … “For prince, for freedom and for right …” “For prince, for freedom and for right …” I always like folk songs. I don’t know that of Rwanda. A bit, wait. Rwanda nziza Gihugu cyacu [Beautiful Rwanda, our country] Wuje imisozi, … [Full of hills, …] And that is always when there is a party in the country than sing that and so with different instruments. But I hope that I will get to know Rwanda better in the future. That is my parents’ country. I always say I am a mozambikan with Rwandan parents. But I feel more Mozambikaan, I would also Brazilian. I would also feel super good in Brazil. Because in Mozambique they speak Portuguese. We grew up with Brazilian TV programs, Brazilian soaps and Telenovelas. So Brazilian women are also good actresses. Yes I was, Brazil …
[i] Maybe your vision will change if you go back to Rwanda? If you get to know where your parents come from.
[r] I don’t think so I don’t know. Rwanda … yes. Rwanda is Rwanda. Rwanda Stays Rwanda I might think I could be the president of Rwanda. If I were President of Rwanda … I would care about the people. Building streets … I would really make Europe from … I would start from the edge to the center … Of most people from the center … but start from the edge. Everyone on the edge gets a job. We do this and we build streets here, we create jobs … and we see … I don’t know if that is possible. Many African politicians put in their pocket and do nothing for the people. It keeps running, it keeps working. I think I would give more, give something to the city. Changing something so that the future generation can live and study safely there. I don’t really miss my Rwandan … I want to know how it was and see where my father was born. Here you were born, Ah Oké. But I also have in Mozambique experienced that we ate with our hands. We had food every day, I think. When I was so big six to seven, when I realized. We also had people who cook for us, a cook and people who worked for us we had servants and such. My father saw in Rwanda how bad it was, but I am now happy in Belgium with the fact that we just have water from the tap. You just have to open the tap and water comes out. Those are those things that I was so happy with in Belgium that we had. I feel more Mozambikaan through the language, through the culture. I might ever go to Mozambique as a tourist. They have beautiful beaches that I have not seen in the north of the country. So well -known parks and so on, but when you are born there you think this is not special. Yes what is this, they are very beautiful things, probably also very nice topics for films and documentaries and such. I also want to make things about the people from there too. To show the world of: look here turns or this works like this. And hopefully achieving something with that … But I would like to build schools … I don’t know, I wouldn’t want to teach there or something. But I would like to build schools and then … Look here is school someone wants to arrange that? Ensure that it turns and such. And there so a […] community, did something and … But first I have to make it, say in Belgium. Or do something internationally. Then okay, yes, all gold back to Africa. No, no, no. First become king in … First become king here … First make it or … Normal life in Belgium. I now have the feeling that we are surviving. Allez, my family and me. We are surviving. I want to come the moment we start living. When are we going to start living? That is now some survival. People who make decisions over us about us, where we have to live and so … You first need a good basis to keep the building stable. If you start building things like that here, yes, at a moment the building will fall when you are completely upstairs. And that’s a pity … If it is very stable and then you build like this, Then that just remains stable, you understand?
[i] It is also a fact that you cannot build anything without papers. And you only have it. Without a residence permit …
[r] Yes. And the problem is … one of the good things is that I didn’t stop … I don’t go to school because I don’t have any papers, I’m not going to start college anyway. I don’t know, it was such a mix of chance … I don’t know obrigado de Deus [thanks to God]. It was a mix of chance and making decisions and also God … And I don’t know where that will stop. But I am very grateful.