SU_A_14

[r] Hola [hello], I am [name], I am now 73, And .. I am already here in Belgium .. Almost 42 years. I come from a small village .. In Chile, a city almost by the sea, 500 kilometers away from the capital, from Santiago, I was there .. .. Sports teacher In high school. I am a musician, I play piano, guitar, And .. Other typical instruments from Latin America, And .. I was a teacher in the .. secondary school. And then .. Pinochet came with the state grip. After two years .. We had to leave Chile, Because of the political problems. Our music was protest music, against the Pinochet regime. We had to leave. We are at the end of the year ’76, come here, With our 2 small children. We are immediately in Antwerp arrived. The music from then in Chile was very different than now. ehem …. music, There were two types of music. Folklore music, and “protest music”, Or I have to say: Political music. Protest music is political music who pays more attention to the people, to the social situation of the people there, at that time, and, Here in Belgium we also have a small group with friends, To see if we can do something here with our music, Also here in Belgium.
[i] I have a small question [name], What kind of problems did you have there, With your music, with the group? Why did you say: “We had to leave”?
[r] Yes, ehem, after the state grip of Pinochet, there was a lot of control, a lot of repression against everything, what was against the system. Our songs, our lyrics were a bit more to Freedom to look for. And rights of the people. They were shocked that we can be more open. And From there, eh. I was a musician and There was a lot of control, And they arrived at our home, the police, To look for me. But I wasn’t there, already good. Was my wife there.
[i] at home?
[r] at home, yes. I wasn’t there. The reason can be my music. We can be closer to the people. And that was not good for some people from the system. Because, I was not a man with a weapon. I was not a terrorist. I was nothing of that. I was just the music. But for voice there was enough to say: “You are in that sense not in our line for us “, So, but yes …
[i] Why were you chosen for Belgium? Have you received support from the embassy?
[r] No, we didn’t get anything. almost a year for us, My parents -in -law came here. They had to leave Chile, Because he had to be in prison in Chile for 2 years. And to get out of prison, He had to leave Chile. And Belgium has it to him, asylum offered. To him, the family. So they came here Via, from then, the United Nations, For the refugees. But well, the Belgian government of the time, has helped us a lot, a lot. Bon, when my in -laws have come here, We did not have, where could also be. Allez, a place to come. So we are to Belgium too, We went looking for money for the tickets, very quickly pay for our house, all away the furniture and everything, And came here. And here in Belgium asylum requested as a political one. Here in Belgium. From then on the procedure was fast, After a month from the application, the answer came That I was allowed to be here as a refugee in Belgium. We had or I was 12 years old as a refugee here in Belgium.
[i] 12 years old.
[r] 12 years. As a pinch set in Chile I am my status of refugees, broken down, allez, disposed of. I was no longer a political refugee, Because if I wasn’t a refugee, if I was back to Chile, otherwise not. If you are a political refugee of a country, If you don’t go back to Chile, your country still fly back, travel back. So I broke down my status. So I was allowed to go to Chile. With other passport, a new passport.
[i] but … always like chilean?
[r] Yes.
[i] and what status do you have now?
[r] now?
[i] Yes, after 12 years.
[r] If …
[r] Refugee?
[r] No, I am here, My status is, “Allowed stay of the state” I can continue to live here With all … Allz, with identity card that, I still have to go to the municipality every 5 years now, To have my card renovated. Every five years. But I can continue to live here, And I am now retired here in Belgium. Finally, I am in Belgium, but, With a nationality of Chile.
[i] When did you arrive?
[r] We arrived in the month of November, Or yes, November, at the end of October.
[i] In what year was it?
[r] in ’76. We are directly in a group of … In the past there was a whole group of people here, The “Chile Committee”, From Belgian people with Chileans To help the refugees, that have arrived. It was very good. Because there are a lot of then, they become every time Groups of people who then came from the entire country. The first months I have here in Belgium, for us it was weird, The language was very strange language, a special language, But the people, they are like us. It was a Catholic culture. We are also a Catholic culture in Chile, The way to live, Was when you get there, in Chile. Our food was always good. Almost like us. Only the situation was different. We have more quiet here, being able to be more quiet. And then, I have the first two months … No, after a month, was my first job, I was a dishwasher in a restaurant. To wash up. Washing pots, dishes,
[i] Have you found that yourself?
[r] No. It was completely through the …
[i] Chile committee?
[r] No, it was through the social service of the municipality.
[i] Which municipality was it?
[i] Wilrijk, no?
[r] Deurne.
[i] Deurne, yes.
[r] It was in Deurne. From then was in Deurne. Everything was in the beginning through the social service of Deurne Rent a cottage, rent a small apartment, find work, Children to school. We have passed two small children, from 2 and 4 years old. This was more or less well organized. With work and with the children. After those 2 months I went to a language course, from 6 months, 8 hours a day, From then from the RVA. From then. For 6 months, 8 hours a day was really way too much, Were we a group of 10 people all from Chile, but yes … More Spanish was spoken in the course, Then would be handy. But the course was very good. I have a lot of grammar from then on, learned, a lot of grammar but not, But little to hear, And to talk to those people. Was little. But it was good, was very good. That was for 6 months. After that course I went to, Then to a course from the RVA, from then too. A course for, as driver [heating engineer] From then at that time. Place radiators, to install boilers, the calculation all, Technical course for 8 months, It was a very good course. And from there was my job until now. Because, after those 8 months I still went, Not because of the RVA, but for me, Start taking another course in the evening school. More higher in my job. The first was only working radiators, with the boiler, But then everything more technical things: Electricity, thermodynamics. And a lot, always a little more and more. I am in the evening school for almost 10 years, To learn more and more, always. For 10 years, until the last 8 years … no, The courses were recognized, The Ministry of .. How do they say that?
[i] Labor? No, right?
[r] Yes, The Ministry of Health, I think. Because, I was allowed to be as an inspector for for working machines. That they work well. The gas and control of the measurements. So that is completely different than in the beginning. I was always done in that job for 28 years, or more, Until I retired. The last 10 years, also a course, For air conditioning, air conditioner also done. To more, learn, Also in the atmosphere, in the space of driver [heating] Warm and cold well under control and everything
[i] You were very motivated.
[r] It was very good because … Belgium is a country with a long winter, So …. there was always work. Work all year round. Work in winter a lot, And after winter people want a check of the machines, Stayed work all year round. And he was my job, but my hobby Remains music. In this, we are with a group of people of 6 people, 6 men. A group of guitar with guitarra, quena, Charango [Latin American instruments] The group tried to help to those actions in Belgium for Chile. If there was an action, Were we there to play to make music To inform people, To show our situation here.
[i] The 6 people came from Chile?
[r] Yes, all from Chile.
[i] and the name of the group was? The name of that group was, bon, the group no longer exists, It was canto Libre [free singing]. Canto Libre van then we were almost for Playing 10 years. Sometimes playing two or three times a week. Here in Belgium, Holland, France, Luxembourg, England.
[i] only for one Latin American public or for everyone?
[r] No, for everyone, We were for almost 4 years or 5 years A permanent group for the “Chiro”, of the boys … the Chiro group, the Belgian Catholic boys, Chiro from the Catholic Church. We were a fixed group, Every week, as if there was a small party or something We were there to play with the group with those guys. And it was a lot.
[i] Were the songs your own songs? Or from the Chilean folklore or a bit of both?
[r] A bit of everything, from both. We had some people of us, and some songs from our classical musicians. From Violeta Parra, Victor Jara, or songs from groups such as Intiillimani, Quilapayun from then. It was a bit, a few songs, one that was sung in Flemish. It was a very good group, musically it was not bad, from then and for us too, huh.
[i] Which instrument did you play?
[r] All Latin American instruments, Quena, Charango, Zampoñas.
[i] And you can play everything?
[r] I can play a lot. I can do a lot.
[i] and also sing, or …?
[r] almost not, very little, In choir, in short sentences, actes well, But just don’t sing No, my voice is not that good. Yes and with that group, Very good, because Our audience sometimes there were people, from Latin America. At that time, many people had come to Brazil, Argentina, from Uruguay, Then they were there too, There was also a dictatorship there. We also performed for those people But for Belgian people sometimes … Sometimes there was a room full, 400 people or more, We were the only foreigners. They were all Belgian, Belgians, Dutch, or … We were the only “weird” People to play. That went very well because we can talk to people a lot, getting to know those people. I know people, I have … From then on people who are still friends now. From then, huh. All 40 years ago. Was friends of that time. Also some musicians, They are also … We played with, a few real ones Flemish folklorists, played. A few times with … allez, one after the other. Once, once we were played, for example with [name] Once. Other times with someone I don’t remember his name anymore The man is already dead that violin played, I don’t know the name. Also played with Juan Masondo, from then, long ago.
[i] and your colleagues of the group, the other Chilean, the other 5 people in the group, Do they still live here in Belgium?
[r] Yes, in Belgium
[i] Everyone?
[r] Yes, everyone in Belgium. Most live […] from here. And there were two people who came from Brussels, but actually We had to rehearse once or twice a week, so yes, should not come from far. Otherwise it won’t work.
[i] But they still live here or have they returned to Chile?
[r] they are, there is 1 who is back to Chile. And the others they still live, but yes, they are They are married to children too. All separate. But is fixed for 10 years, And a little falter with that group for another 5 years. People have to work, must […] This and this, it becomes less and less. And also the attention of the Belgian people around Chile was less and less. Because there are other countries that have been added to problems. In Latin America, What do you call that, who are in problems today. Nicaragua, Argentines […] And then the people of Africa, All the countries that have come and then, yes, we are set aside. Yes, but also because it was no longer necessary. Because Pinochet was away from the government of Chile. There are many people who are back to Chile. My parents -in -law, for example, are also back to Chile. And many people, we used to be … They said then in the beginning were round 4000 people here in Belgium Then in Belgium from Chile, huh. And now, if it Being 800 is a lot. Because most of Chile went back.
[i] You have decided to stay here.
[r] Yes, there was a while we too, too, Back to Chile, but, Our children are married here, with Belgians. Grandchildren. So yes, what are we going to do in Chile? So we stay here. Everything is still here. [Unintelligible] In Chile there is also my sister, my brother, my aunt, my cousin, and everything They still live there, But yes, we are here, my family.
[i] how do you feel like you are in Chili are for vacation? You go every year?
[r] every year when it goes, every year go to Chile for vacation.
[i] How do you feel there?
[r] now, well, in the beginning it was a bit weird. Strange, because people … The way to do there is a bit different.
[i] for example? For example, I went to … The first time I went to Chile, after .. 12 years. 12 years was the first time I still went to Chile. I was there and I feel really weird, the way to do, the way to think was a bit different, changed.
[i] The people who stayed there ..
[r] Another way to think,
[i] The people from there have changed?
[r] Yes, changed. And we here too, huh. We are here, more or less, programmed to do something. Here in Belgium. Not there yet, It is very difficult. The people there, they are very open, very friendly, but … Yes, in time […] They do everything very well for you, but the way to do is a bit different. From then, long ago.
[i] Maybe people were still scared because of the repression?
[r] now, not anymore, not today. But from then. They were afraid to comment. From then, Pinochet was only gone.
[i] Were they closed?
[r] Yes people from then a little scared to say something, to comment. But not anymore. Now it is completely different. But from then that were people. And really the people I know well, you can talk to, from then, huh. If it were people you didn’t know, we were not allowed to say anything. That was not from then, long ago. Today we are … People who walk, friend … talk so much, Do they do everything. It is completely different, but The rules …
[i] The first 12 years that you were here, Did you always have the plan to go back to Chile?
[i] We were always with the idea of ​​going back to Chile. We even went to the bank, To borrow money, We have sent the money to Chile, For another house. We didn’t have our own house. So a […] from then had started buying our house With money from here, from the bank. My father has a very beautiful house found, With a back garden and front garden, an entrance and two floors. Nice. We bought that For us, But at that time our children started to stay, stay to the school, study here, And in the end we stay here, until now. With children and grandchildren.
[i] e your feelings here Antwerp has changed a bit, have you always felt well here? If you have to compare with your first time here, has your felt a bit changed?
[r] After the trip to Chile?
[i] The first period before the trip to Chile and then.
[r] After a week in Chile, we had to adjust here, after a week there you are there as if, I am always there. Feels nothing weird, not special. And if you are back here we have to adjust for two days, But after a day or two you are here at home. So no […] to go to Chili, not me. There are people who do them, let everything fall here, and go back to Chile, they go to the mountains, to the sea, to the rivers, beautiful. It is very beautiful, but if you are there on leave, that’s nice. But to work and live there, It is completely different. It’s hard, very hard.