SU_A_08

[i] Hello!
[r] Hello!
[i] Tell me about yourself and your life in your country?
[r] My name is [name], I am 20 years old. I come from Syria, I lived in Idlib. When I left Syria, I was 14 years old. We lived in a small town.
[i] Idlib?
[r] Yes, the name of the region is Idlib. We lived in a small tourist town in Idlib. My father was a carpenter and he worked in Syria and Lebanon. At first I lived with my grandmother and not with my family. Later I lived with my family. I rarely saw my father because he was usually in Lebanon. He travelled a lot between Syria and Lebanon. I was a student and got excellent grades at school. I have three brothers; I am the only girl. My mother did not work.
[i] Three brothers?
[r] Yes, three brothers, three boys.
[i] How old are they?
[r] Two of them are twins; they are 18 years old. The third is 16 years old.
[i] Are you all studying?
[r] Yes, we are all studying. No one is not going to school.
[i] What was your financial situation like in your home country?
[r] It was good because we lived in a tourist area and there were no economic problems. Most of the people who lived there had a luxurious life because everyone had farms, swimming pools and restaurants. So our situation was good. My father worked in Syria and Lebanon, and everything was fine there. We didn’t suffer like other regions.
[i] What level did you reach at school before you left Syria?
[r] My level at school?
[i] Yes.
[r] I was at level 8 (level 2 in secondary school).
[i] When you left Syria, did you leave alone or with your family?
[r] First I migrated alone with my uncle, then my family followed. We migrated in 2011, at the beginning of the civil war. The war had been going on for a few months when my father decided to migrate so as not to live in a war zone.
[i] Were you happy in your country?
[r] Of course, we were happy. Everything was fine and it was always peaceful. People lived a comfortable life. There were no problems, especially in the region where I lived. It was a beautiful area, with friendly people, swimming pools and farms. It was very beautiful there.
[i] Were there no political problems, religious problems or other problems?
[r] There were some problems, but not major ones. For example, we didn’t have freedom of expression. People just focused on their lives, eating, drinking, studying and going out with their friends. It wasn’t easy to improve yourself, realise your big dreams or talk about your personal beliefs. My grandfather had many books and wanted to set up a large library in his house, but the government wouldn’t allow it.
[i] When you decided to migrate from Syria to Turkey, you migrated with your uncle, but your father, mother and brothers stayed in Syria, right?
[r] Yes, my father wasn’t in Syria, but my mother and brothers stayed in Syria.
[i] Was your father in Turkey or Lebanon?
[r] My father was travelling between Turkey and Lebanon. First he was in Lebanon and then he went to Turkey.
[i] Did he work in Lebanon?
[r] Yes, he worked in Lebanon.
[i] And in Turkey?
[r] No, he didn’t work in Turkey at first, but later he worked there too.
[i] What made you decide to migrate to Turkey with your uncle?
[r] To escape the war. When the problems started, my father decided to migrate to escape the war.
[i] How did you migrate from Idlib to Turkey?
[r] Idlib is next to the Turkish border, it only took fifteen minutes to reach Turkey. Everything went smoothly, we just went to the border. It was easy. We left at the beginning of the crisis, so there weren’t many people yet. There were no checks or checkpoints along the way, we travelled easily.
[i] By bus or by car?
[r] By car, then we walked for another five minutes until we reached Turkey.
[i] So the road was easy and there were no problems?
[r] Yes, the journey was easy.
[i] When you arrived in Turkey, did you meet your father? Or did you stay with your uncle?
[r] Some of our relatives had been living in Turkey for a long time, like two of my aunts. Part of our family lived in Syria and part in Turkey, so we went to our family who lived in Turkey and stayed with them.
[i] Were there any problems with housing, finding a home or a job?
[r] No, finding a home was easy. After a few months, we moved into our own home after my mother, brothers and father arrived from Syria.
[i] Was this in 2011?
[r] Around 2011 and 2012.
[i] How did life in Turkey compare to life in Idlib?
[r] It was completely different, with different languages and different people, but the culture was not different. The culture is almost the same between Turkey and Syria, especially in the region next to the border; the people there have many similarities. The language was difficult; it was completely different. I knew a little Turkish, but not much. The language was new, but the people were very nice. The people who lived in the villages were very nice.
[i] Did you go to school in Turkey?
[r] After six months, I went to school. There was a small Syrian school that had just been set up. It was in a normal house, not an official school. It was set up for Syrian refugees, to get them back to school instead of doing nothing. In six months, there were about 30 Syrian families. The aim of the project was to help Syrian refugees continue their education instead of staying at home. They rented a house and turned it into a school. The rooms of the house became classrooms. Some people volunteered to teach at the school. The director brought the Syrian curriculum from Syria, and then we started studying.
[i] Was this school recognised by the Turkish Ministry of Education?
[r] Not in the first year, but we continued studying so as not to forget what we had learned before. And after a year, the little school was recognised.
[i] What level did you study?
[r] I studied at this school for three years. Then the situation changed dramatically, with many schools and many people arriving, so I went to another special school. This one was better and fully recognised. I learned three languages there: Arabic, Turkish and English. I finished secondary school. Then I took the national intelligence test.
[i] Is that the entrance exam for university?
[r] Yes, it has a special name in Turkey, but I don’t remember what it is. I took this test, then I took the Bachelor’s test, and then I got my secondary school diploma.
[i] Did you then do a Bachelor’s degree at university?
[r] No, I took the test to get my diploma recognised because without this test I wouldn’t have been able to go to university. You need that Bachelor’s test for all universities. After I took the test, we couldn’t migrate to Europe yet, so I went to a language institute. I learned English and Turkish. My brothers also studied, then they started working. Life became difficult because everything became more expensive. Apartment rents became more expensive and there weren’t enough jobs. You could find a job, but the salary wasn’t enough. We worked hard but weren’t paid well. My father and mother had a shop. It helped refugees and newcomers. They make all kinds of handmade products. There were many young Syrian widows whose husbands had been killed in the war. It was very sad. Many girls who worked with us had lost someone in their family in the war. Some of those girls had no one to help them or give them money. There were many orphans. My parents started this project to help them. The girls worked with my father and mother in the handmade products. Turkish citizens bought their products. It was a good project. My parents also set up a nursery school.
[i] That’s great! Was your uncle the only one who supported your family financially?
[r] No, my uncle didn’t live with us anymore, my father helped us.
[i] Your uncle lived with you in the beginning and helped you, right?
[r] Yes, my uncle was with us at first, but then he left and stayed with his family.
[i] Your father was a carpenter in Syria, did he do the same work in Turkey?
[r] No, he decided to work in the small business he had started with my mother. It was a small business, but it was used to help refugees. The girls who worked there made things, and these things were presented in exhibitions.
[i] Was the income from this project enough to live on?
[r] We didn’t earn much, but it was more to help the refugees than for the income. The refugees did various jobs such as sewing and wool production, etc. They did other work too, but I don’t know what it was called. The income wasn’t very good, but it was enough.
[i] Where did your three brothers study and work?
[r] They completed secondary school and two of them worked, but the third couldn’t find a job. The two brothers who found jobs worked in mechanics, not with cars, but with machines, mechanics related to machines.
[i] So they didn’t go to university?
[r] No.
[i] The three brothers?
[r] Yes, the three brothers.
[i] How many years did you stay in Turkey?
[r] Six years.
[i] From 2012 to 2017?
[r] Yes, from 2012 to 2017.
[i] Why did you decide to migrate to Europe after 6 years in Turkey?
[r] The project my father and mother had set up was not enough to improve our lives, to go to university and study like other students. Life in Turkey was very expensive. Life in Turkey is cheaper than life in Europe, but our expenses in Turkey were higher than our income. My brothers wanted to go to university. They didn’t plan to work all their lives. They barely earned enough to live on, so my father decided to migrate, and I also wanted to go to university, but you need a lot of money for that. Tuition fees are also expensive. That is why my father decided to migrate to Belgium in 2016.
[i] Did your father migrate alone?
[r] Yes, he migrated alone.
[i] Did your father choose to migrate to Belgium, or just to a country in Europe?
[r] No, he chose Belgium.
[i] Why did he choose Belgium?
[r] He chose Belgium for me… because I was 19 years old and because only Belgium allows sponsors to invite their children who are over 18.
[i] What about other European countries?
[r] No, there is no family reunification for children over 18 anywhere else. My father had friends in Sweden and Germany, but they couldn’t bring their children who were in Turkey over. That’s why my father decided to emigrate to Belgium, to have me with him and help me go to university. He wouldn’t leave me alone in Turkey. That’s why he chose Belgium, because he could get a visa for me from there.
[i] When your father decided to emigrate, what did he do to reach Belgium?
[r] He emigrated by boat across the sea from Turkey to Greece. The boat sank the first time, but some people rescued him. It was terrible. We couldn’t call him for two days; there was no network or other technical problem… It was a difficult journey.
[i] Did he migrate with the help of smugglers?
[r] I don’t know much about it, but there was a town on the border between Turkey and Greece. He stayed in that town for a month until he knew what to do. Then he contacted someone who told him what to do, and then he migrated.
[i] How did you feel when your father told you that their boat had sunk in the sea?
[r] We were very scared because we heard that many people died in the sea, children, women… Many people had already died when he migrated, so we were very scared and my mother asked him to come back. She said we didn’t want to migrate anymore because the journey was so dangerous. Most of the boats sank in the sea and most of the migrants died, but my father said he would try again.
[i] Your father was in danger when his boat sank and he tried again anyway? Wasn’t there another safe way to migrate to Europe?
[r] I don’t think there was another way because they didn’t give visas to Syrians. I don’t know, but I think this was the only way to migrate and the fastest way, because if there was another way to migrate, the procedures would take a long time.
[i] On which attempt did your father manage to come to Europe, the second or the third?
[r] On the second attempt.
[i] He managed to reach which country in Europe?
[r] Maybe it was Italy! I’m not sure. I can’t remember the country. I remember him saying Greece, then some countries next to Greece, then Italy, then Germany, and from Germany to Belgium.
[i] Your father’s migration story was difficult.
[r] Yes, it was very difficult.
[i] Did he tell you stories about what happened to him during his journey?
[r] Yes, he told us that when the boat sank in the sea, he saw a father with his children drowning. He told us very sad stories. He saw many migrants sinking in the sea. My father could swim because there were many swimming pools in our town, so he tried to help them, but because there were so many, he could only help a few people. The smuggler who was with them did nothing, he left them behind. The smuggler saw that many people were drowning, but no one knew what to do. He told us very sad stories. When they reached Europe, there was no food and their clothes were wet and in poor condition. The food they had was barely enough to survive. Most migrants did not know what to do after they reached Europe. They didn’t know what to do next. Many of them followed my father because he had asked what to do before he left.
[i] How old was your father when he migrated?
[r] 39 years old.
[i] Did your father tell you how he felt when he arrived in Belgium?
[r] He was very happy because he was recognised as a refugee in just one or two months. He didn’t stay in a refugee camp or anything like that, he stayed in a nice flat. He didn’t struggle to survive in Belgium like others did when they arrived in Turkey and lived in tents. When my father arrived in Belgium, he stayed in a flat and was happy.
[i] In which city?
[r] Here in Antwerp, I think.
[i] He came to Antwerp?
[r] Yes, he had a friend there and he went to see him.
[i] Did he stay with him?
[r] No, he met him and then he applied for social housing in Brussels. They gave him social housing and he lived there, not in a camp. He was happy that he didn’t have to stay in a refugee camp.
[i] When your father started the family reunification procedure, how long did it take?
[r] About a year.
[i] In what year and month did he arrive in Belgium?
[r] I think in September 2016.
[i] In September 2016?
[r] I’m not sure, maybe earlier. I can’t remember.
[i] So at the end of 2016!
[r] I think it was at the end of 2015.
[i] At the end of 2015?
[r] Yes, he was in Belgium for the whole of 2016.
[i] After he applied for family reunification, when did you arrive in Belgium?
[r] 2017.
[i] In which month?
[r] March.
[i] You were in Belgium in March, right?
[r] Yes.
[i] In Antwerp?
[r] Yes.
[i] Did you travel from Turkey to Belgium by plane?
[r] Yes, by plane.
[i] So there were no problems or difficulties during the journey, right?
[r] No problems.
[i] Did you migrate with your mother and brothers or alone?
[r] We were all together.
[i] When you arrived, did you arrive at Brussels or Antwerp airport?
[r] Charleroi!
[i] Charleroi airport?
[r] Yes.
[i] How did you feel when your plane landed at the airport?
[r] I was so happy because I hadn’t seen my father for two years. I was so happy and I was the first one to see my father, before my family. I was so happy to see him, he looked well, I was happy. I hadn’t seen him for a long time because when we were in Turkey, he was usually at work. Even my brothers grew up and didn’t see him for a long time.
[i] Had you been to Europe before or was this your first time?
[r] No, this is my first time.
[i] What did you think of Europe when you arrived?
[r] Very quiet. It’s not busy like Turkey. It’s quieter here, but people aren’t very sociable. Most people live alone, they don’t interact with each other. Most people live very individual lives, so we felt very lonely. When we were in Turkey, we also lived in a quiet region, but that was nothing compared to here. It’s even quieter here. What was the first thing you did after arriving in Antwerp? At first, we lived with our father in a small flat, so we had to look for a bigger flat. We looked for an apartment for a long time. They wouldn’t even give us our identity cards until we found a bigger apartment.
[i] How long did it take you to find an apartment?
[r] A month and a half.
[i] Did you encounter any difficulties in finding an apartment?
[r] Yes, a lot… There were many problems and we suffered a lot because the apartment was very small when we arrived. Our father couldn’t rent a bigger apartment until we arrived because he was alone. If he rented a large apartment that cost 800 euros, there wouldn’t be enough money left. He said, ‘When you come to Belgium, I’ll rent a bigger apartment.’ When we arrived, the apartment was very small, with only one bedroom. It was very difficult for us because we had never lived in such a small apartment before. Our house in Syria was very large and it was in Arabic style, and our house in Turkey had four rooms, it was also large. So when we came here, our house was small and we couldn’t find another flat because people here may not want Arabic tenants. They also want people with a permanent job or with whom they have had contact for at least three years. So most of them refused us, they said no… no… And when we found an apartment, it wasn’t through us. A friend of our father worked in a rental agency, he looked for an apartment for us and we had to pay him commission. I don’t know what it’s called, if this name is correct, commission.
[i] Do you know how much you paid?
[r] Yes, about 400 euros. We also had to pay the owner a deposit. It was difficult. I think the hardest thing for us was that when we came here, we stayed in a small flat, and suddenly, after living in a big flat, we were living in this small flat, and we couldn’t leave this small flat because no one wanted to rent to us. No one wanted to give us a flat. We told them there were only six of us, but no one wanted to give us a flat.
[i] After you found the apartment, what was your next step in your life in Belgium?
[r] We applied to get our identity cards. We applied for them, then we received them. Then I went to school and all my brothers went to school too.
[i] What level did you attend at school?
[r] The first level.
[i] I mean, you studied at school in Turkey and completed secondary school?
[r] Yes, I went to a language school in Belgium and not to the state school, but my brothers went to the state school, they are now in secondary school.
[i] Did your brothers go to secondary school before they learned the language?
[r] No, they learned the language and then they went to school. They went to language school for a year and then went to secondary school.
[i] When you started learning the language, tell me, how did that go?
[r] It was difficult but not very difficult. Life here wasn’t that difficult for me because I speak English. I mostly spoke English and my life was fine, but studying at university was difficult. I have to complete all the Dutch language levels if I want to be accepted by the university. So when I started, I started with something simple, not something difficult like university or anything. I completed three levels. It was a nice experience because it was a new language and many things are similar to English, so it wasn’t difficult at first. I studied at the CVO school for five or six months. I passed all the levels because it was easy. It was easy for me because I’m used to studying under high pressure and taking exams, so it was easy for me. The CVO school wasn’t difficult either. When I decided to go to university, I discovered that my Dutch wasn’t good enough, as it required a very high level of Dutch. So I decided to study Dutch at Linguapolis, a faculty at the University of Antwerp. I went there and passed level 1 and am now at level 2. There is one more exam and then I will go to level 3.
[i] What was the most difficult thing in Dutch?
[r] There are many words that are similar. Most words have the same form, but the pronunciation is different, with only one or two letters different. Writing is also very difficult. I listen to Dutch, but I spell in English, which made it very difficult for me. The exam I will take is written because I failed the writing test. When I hear a word, I write it in English, but Dutch is completely different. You write what you hear. Writing was very difficult for me and it is still difficult.
[i] How about listening and speaking?
[r] They are easy, but not very easy. I got excellent marks in oral exams, but writing is very difficult.
[i] So after you pass the third level, you can enrol at university, right?
[r] No, the fifth level.
[i] So after you’ve reached the fifth level in Dutch, you can go to university, right?
[r] Yes.
[i] Which university and which faculty?
[r] The University of Ghent, the Faculty of Journalism.
[i] The Faculty of Journalism? Why do you want to study at the journalism faculty?
[r] It has been my dream since I was little, because without the press, people would not know what has happened in our country: the war, everything that happens, migration, the suffering of the people, murder and destruction. Without the press, people would know nothing. If no one writes about what is happening, no one knows what is happening.
[i] So you want the world to hear your voice and the voice of people who have lost their rights, is that your dream? If Allah wills it, if Allah wills it. I wish you success.
[r] Thank you.
[i] So you are going to the University of Antwerp, excuse me, Ghent, right?
[r] Yes, Ghent.
[i] Have you enrolled yet?
[r] No, after I complete the fourth level in Dutch, I can enrol.
[i] How many years will you study at university?
[r] Four years.
[i] Four years?
[r] Yes.
[i] Did you ask the university if they recognise your diploma that you obtained in Turkey?
[r] Yes, they accepted it and I translated it. They accepted it because I took the university entrance exam after I obtained my diploma. I had it translated and made sure it was equivalent to the European system (ISO). I can use it to enrol and study at any university.
[i] You mean…
[r] It wasn’t difficult, and the university accepted it. They even contacted my school in Turkey after I told them I was studying there. To be sure, because some people use fake diplomas. I studied there and brought the transcripts, the name of the school and the address, and then contacted the school. My diploma is Turkish, not Syrian, so it was legalised by the Turkish Ministry of Education, not the Syrian one, so I didn’t encounter any obstacles.
[i] Tell me about your experiences when you arrived in Belgium, the pros and cons?
[r] The advantages are that you can dream and make your dreams come true. You can do what you want to do, you can really make your dreams come true. You can also study what you want to study, because in Syria that is difficult. It is difficult to achieve what you dream of. You just dream, many people only have their dreams, but here you can dream and you can work and study to make your dreams come true. No one will stop you. You can build your life; of course, nothing is easy, we are not in heaven. You can improve yourself, work and do what you want to do. There is no problem achieving what you want, no one will stop you. If you really want something and you decide to go for it, you can do it. Learn the language, study and build something for yourself. The disadvantages I encountered here are that some people are racist, or perhaps they are not very open-minded. This was difficult for me. Racism should not exist in a civilised and developed society. If someone is civilised and educated, they will never be racist. Racism still exists here. Some people have this problem, even though they are educated, civilised and have studied at university. They discriminate; they don’t know the Arab world, our culture, our life and our religion very well. They ask why you wear a headscarf. This is my life and no one has the right to interfere in my life. We respect others; I come from a country that has six languages. In Syria, we also have people of different faiths, but few people know that. Half of us are Christians, and the other half are Muslims, and there are also Jews. In Syria, we have people of many religions, many groups and many languages, all living together in peace. I did not know before that there are atheists in Syria without religion, but we all lived together in peace. Those who have visited Syria know that racism does not exist in our culture, because we are very simple people and we do not think about such bad things. Everyone can do what they want. In my family, there are Christians and Muslims, and they live together and no one interferes in each other’s lives. When I came here, I noticed that people interfere in the lifestyles of others.
[i] Have you encountered any problems because of your headscarf in Belgium?
[r] When I came here, I didn’t expect it to be so difficult. In Turkey, there aren’t many women who wear headscarves, only a small percentage, but I didn’t encounter any problems. When I came here, I didn’t expect my headscarf to cause problems one day. When I enrolled in language school, I had only been in Belgium for a few months. Because of my headscarf, the teacher ignored me when I spoke; she didn’t respond to me. I didn’t know why she was doing that! Is it because I’m Arab or because I wear a headscarf? I don’t know what the problem was. I encountered problems again, on the tram. After I got off the tram, another woman also got off and started saying nasty things to me. I asked her, ‘What’s going on? Why are you saying this to me?’ I didn’t know what was going on, but another woman from Morocco came up to me and translated what she was saying. Another problem is that people look at girls with headscarves as if they are uneducated. What you believe has nothing to do with ignorance, because what you believe is personal. This is my own life, I wear what I want and do what I want. We are now in the 21st century, if we still judge people by what they wear, we will never be civilised, we will never be a civilised nation or a civilised society. When I go somewhere, it annoys me when people say mean things or look at me in a mean way or don’t want to be friends with me. Even at university, I don’t have many friends. They try to avoid friendship with me because I wear a headscarf. They always see us as ignorant people, they don’t talk to us because they think we don’t know much. They think that a girl who covers her hair covers her thoughts. The problem is that I see that Jews also cover their heads here, and they are very extremely religious. They don’t go to Belgian schools, they don’t go to university. They have their own schools and their own religious places. Everything they have is private, they don’t associate with non-Jews, and they will never integrate, but they are still respected. No one says anything about the Jews. No one says they are more conservative than Muslims. We go to public schools and universities, go to public restaurants and go to shops. We have no problem with that because we are an open-minded nation, but they are very closed. And yet people here respect them. No one talks about it or says they are ignorant people. Even in some schools here, I see teachers or students wearing crosses. I respect that and it doesn’t bother me because your faith is a personal matter, I don’t interfere in other people’s beliefs. So why do people here interfere in our beliefs? Why do they keep asking me why I wear a headscarf? I wear it for myself, not for you. When I wear a headscarf, I’m not hurting you or putting you at a disadvantage. My headscarf is something that belongs only to me, it’s something I believe in, something I respect, and I have my reasons for wearing it. I respect what I do. I will never deny my religion and my traditions to make people happy. I know that many girls who came here took off their headscarves because of social pressure and how people look at them as if they are ignorant. When they no longer wear a headscarf, does that mean they have become smarter? When people abandon their beliefs, do they become smarter? When someone’s beliefs are no longer important to them, do they become smarter? And when someone is a strong believer, does he become ignorant? They say that if you are a Muslim and you wear a headscarf, it means you are ignorant! Why do we link beliefs with intelligence? They always think we will never achieve anything because our faith will prevent us from developing.
[i] Local elections are coming up in Belgium. In a few days, the local elections will begin. Are you worried that the new authorities will ban headscarves in schools?
[r] There is now a law in schools that bans headscarves for students under the age of 18. The problem is that a civilised society is supposed to respect people’s beliefs. Regardless of who someone is, respect their spirit regardless of how they look. Unfortunately, they do not understand this idea. And if a Muslim girl cannot do what she wants because of her appearance, how will she live in that country? And if she decides to return to her country, she cannot be who she wants to be there either. So here we cannot do what we want because of our appearance, and in our country we cannot achieve what we want because there are no opportunities.
[i] What will you do if they ban headscarves at universities?
[r] I would be shocked that after all the developments in Europe, they would go back to a time when we judge people by their appearance and not by their actions. I think I would return then; I don’t want to stay in a place where I am not respected.
[i] Where would you return to?
[r] To Syria or Turkey or a country that respects me.
[i] What will you do when you graduate from university and want to start working?
[r] Many people told me that I won’t find a job because it’s difficult to find work as a journalist. And that my headscarf will make it even more difficult. The people I spoke to, Belgians and Arabs, told me that it is very difficult to find a job in journalism, especially with a headscarf. They said, ‘You’re going to study something, but don’t expect to find a job easily.’
[i] So what is your plan to solve this problem?
[r] I don’t know yet, maybe I won’t go to university, maybe I’ll go to another country where I can find a job in journalism.
[i] Regarding your social life, tell me about the contacts between Belgians and Syrians here?
[r] I have two Belgian friends, a male friend and a female friend. They are very nice and very respectful. In every country, you find open-minded people and narrow-minded people. I have many Belgian friends, I live in a nice place, in a village called Borsbeek. It is very quiet and the people there are very nice and helpful. When they saw that we were good people, they did not reject us. There is a big difference between Antwerp and the village where I live. I encountered many problems and difficulties in the city, but when we go to rural areas where there aren’t many young people, most of the older people are nice. I only encountered problems in the city, but the people in my village and my neighbours are very nice. The only problem in a village is that you can’t find everything there. Do you hang out with your Belgian friend, visit her at home or learn Dutch from her? Our friendship is not close, it is not very deep, but I have a Belgian friend and my relationship with him is very good. He is very friendly, he supports me and tells me that wearing a headscarf does not make you ignorant. The percentage of people who look at me as ignorant because of my headscarf is low, but it hurts me what they say. I only have two friends now, even though I’ve been in Belgium for a year and a half. A male friend and a female friend. People have a lot of influence on you because you feel sad when you see something bad in them, and you feel happy when you see something good in them.
[i] How do you get along with Syrians?
[r] I don’t have many, just two or three friends.
[i] What do you do in your daily life?
[r] I take care of my family.
[i] You take care of your family at home!
[r] Not only at home, because my father died two months ago, so I have to take care of them.
[i] How old was your father when he died?
[r] 42.
[i] That’s sad. How did you feel when your father died and you were left alone in a foreign country?
[r] It’s very difficult, I was devastated because I never saw my father very often. I only lived with him for a few years. When he died, I felt like I still needed him. The first year we lived together was here in Belgium. It was the first year we had been together and I felt like we were just starting to get to know each other. It was the first time we had been here in Belgium together. So when he died, I was devastated, especially because I have three young brothers. It’s hard for them to grow up without a father. I was devastated, but I accept Allah’s will.
[i] Do you feel that all the responsibility for taking care of your family now lies with you?
[r] Yes.
[i] Who takes care of the needs of your home and family?
[r] I do.
[i] Do you take responsibility for taking care of your three younger brothers and your mother?
[r] Yes, and also my studies and future university studies.
[i] Do you have any relatives here who can help you when you encounter problems?
[r] No, no one. No relatives, just a few acquaintances, but they are not close relationships. There is no one from my family here.
[i] Does this make you worry about the future?
[r] Yes, of course! The loneliness scares us, because we’ve never had such a quiet social life before. Moreover, it’s difficult to find company when you’re so sad. And even if I did find someone, they would never care as much about me as my father did. Life here is very individualistic.
[i] How would you compare your social life in Syria with your life here?
[r] Social life in Syria is completely different. Everyone talks to each other, everyone knows each other and everyone visits each other. The relationship between family members, neighbours and friends was very strong. Our neighbours were like family, our friends were like part of the family. We didn’t distinguish between them. We never asked them: ‘Who is your family, who is your father, what is your religion?’. Social life in Syria is very good, but there are other things that are not good, there are also disadvantages.
[i] Did you expect to encounter problems because of your headscarf before you came to Europe? And what was your image of Europe before you came and after you arrived?
[r] Not at all, I didn’t expect to encounter problems here because of my headscarf. I didn’t expect that at all. I thought that nobody interfered in people’s lives, that nobody would be interested in whether I wore a headscarf or not. That’s the only thing that shocked me when I came here, that people interfere with what you wear. I thought nobody would be interested in what I wear. I thought they would be interested in who I am, my knowledge, my culture and my level of education. I was really shocked when I discovered that they interfere with what you wear. That was the problem, I was confused, because how can people here judge others because of their appearance, even though they live in a modern society? That is the only major problem I have encountered here. That and the fact that no one wanted to rent us an apartment, possibly because we are Arabs. Those are the two biggest problems: finding a home and wearing a headscarf. You notice that some people respect you, but others have no respect for you at all, which has a negative impact on us. I want to work, but I am worried whether they will accept me. I’m worried they’ll ask me about my headscarf. I have no hope of finding a job one day, because so many people have told me that I won’t find a job because of my headscarf. That’s my biggest concern.
[i] How is your experience with Belgian food?
[r] It’s difficult to find food in the area where I live, because there are no halal restaurants. There is no Halal meat at all. The village is very small and there are not many restaurants. Belgian cuisine is very simple, unlike our food, which is more difficult to prepare. Most of the food here is not organic either. I notice this difference because I lived in an agricultural area in Syria, with many farms and vegetables. We bought fruit and vegetables directly from the farm.
[i] In Idlib?
[r] Yes, in Idlib. That’s why I notice a big difference, because most of the food here is not organic. Most of the food is not organic and there are not many farms for fruit and vegetables. Maybe we have a similar climate, but not in terms of fruit and vegetables. As for the meals, I don’t know, I haven’t tried much Belgian food yet. But the food here isn’t difficult to prepare. It’s not like Chinese food and it doesn’t take much time to cook. So there’s a big difference between our food and their food. Our food is very difficult to prepare, which is a problem for us.
[i] Do you cook at home?
[r] Yes.
[i] Are you a good cook?
[r] Yes, very good.
[i] When you want to buy meat, where do you buy it?
[r] At an Arab butcher’s shop that sells Halal meat.
[i] Does that butcher live in your village?
[r] No, there is no Arab butcher’s shop in our village. There are no Arab shops, not even an Arab bakery, nothing like that. All the shops are Belgian. When we want something, we go to Antwerp to buy Halal meat and Halal food.
[i] What is the name of the village where you live?
[r] Borsbeek.
[i] So you always go from Borsbeek to Antwerp to buy food?
[r] Yes.
[i] Is it far? How long does it take to get there?
[r] Between half an hour and 40 minutes.
[i] Do you go shopping once a week?
[r] Yes, once a week.
[i] Isn’t that difficult for you? Do you have a car?
[r] No, I don’t have a car. I take the bus.
[i] Do you take the bus and carry everything yourself?
[r] Yes. Sometimes my mother comes with me, but without a car it’s very difficult. Taking the bus is annoying because it’s sometimes crowded and the buses are often late. I don’t know why they’re usually late.
[i] Do you have a driving licence?
[r] No.
[i] Not even in Syria?
[r] No. I was still young in Syria, 14 years old.
[i] Or in Turkey?
[r] No, but my father had a driving licence in Turkey.
[i] Tell me about the good things you have experienced in Belgian society.
[r] The people in the area where I live are very nice, and they have a very simple life. When you do something for them, even if it’s very simple, they appreciate it enormously and see it as something big. One day during Ramadan, we made Fattoush and gave it to our neighbours, which is something we always do in our country during Ramadan. I was still new in Belgium. I make the same food here that I make there. Our neighbour really liked it and the next day she came to us and said, ‘I want to pay you for the salad.’ I was surprised because we never ask for money for something we give as a gift. She was very happy and thought it was such a nice gesture on our part. She started crying and became emotional. She said, ‘You are good people.’ Another situation was with our next-door neighbours. The neighbour made a scarf for me for the winter. She bought wool and made it with her own hands. They are very good to us and we are good to them. Our neighbour who lives below us loves us very much and we love her too. We buy gifts for her and she buys gifts for us. She comes to visit us all the time and we made Fattoush for her. She liked it very much and was very happy. One day she was ill, and I visited her to see how she was doing. She fell and hit her head. I cleaned the wound and took care of her. She started crying and said, ‘You are good people.’ Her daughter had abandoned her. She said, ‘You are very kind people, and your presence makes up for my daughter’s absence.’ My brothers take care of her and I also take care of her. She always comes to our house to visit my mother, because my mother rarely leaves the house, especially since my father passed away. Although she and my mother do not understand each other very well, they continue to visit each other. She is a very kind and sweet woman. When my father died, she cried for us. She said, ‘You will be lonely like me.’ She brings my mother gifts and said to me: ‘You are like a daughter to me. Don’t be sad when your mother is gone, I will be here for you like a mother.’ The people in the village are very kind and grateful. They appreciate everything you do for them.
[i] What would you like to say to the new city council?
[r] I wish that these kind people would be part of the new city council and influence the decisions. These people have a good impact on us. Just as the bad things have a negative influence on us, the good things have a positive influence. They even help us forget the racism and the bad things that have happened to us. The good people really help us forget the bad things that happen to us. Those good people must have a voice in the city council. We want them to have a positive influence and compensate for the negative influence. Some Belgians are worried because they think that Muslims in Belgium want to turn Belgium into a Muslim country. What would you say to them? If we wanted to make them Muslims, we would have made the Christians in our own country Muslims too. If we wanted to influence others, we would have done so there. Many Belgians don’t know that there are many Christians in Syria, Lebanon, Palestine and Egypt. The percentage is very high, not 2% or 3%, or 100 or 200 people, there are many. We have not interfered in their beliefs at all. I am not interested in converting people to Islam, I am only interested in improving my life. Their faith is their choice and I did not come here to change it. On the other hand, I do not want them to try to change us either. I am not at all interested in converting them to Islam. If I wanted to convert them, I would have done so with my Christian friends in my country. Everyone must make their own decision about what they believe. We have our religion and they have theirs. We believe in our religion, we respect it and we grew up with it. I also grew up with Christians in my country. They must understand that this is not the first time we have seen Christians. In our country, we have Christians and churches. If people here read history, they would know how many old churches we have in Syria. We love their churches and we respect them because they are part of our history. It is not true at all that we came here to convert them. We love their religion and we respect it. Syria was originally a Christian country in the past. It was not originally a Muslim country and now we are a secular country. We never thought of converting Christians here or in our country. We came here because there are more opportunities in life here. I did not come to change anyone or influence anyone.
[i] What things and memories do you miss from your country?
[r] My relatives in Syria. My mother’s relatives, my grandmother and my grandfather. We miss them all the time because they are the ones who raised us and lived with us. We miss our house, the big house we left behind, our farm. We don’t have a farm here, no swimming pool, no land, nothing. We also miss nature; we lived in a very natural area. We had a big house, a large farm, a swimming pool and good people in our lives. I miss nature very much.
[i] And your friends in Syria?
[r] I miss them very much.
[i] You have no contact with them anymore?
[r] No… Because I was very young when I left, all contact was broken off. I didn’t know that my friends there were non-believers until the war started. I lived in Syria for 14 years and grew up with them. I was with them every day. We ate together, we studied together, at the same school, the same secondary school, we were together all the time. I didn’t know then that they were non-believers. This makes me glad that we weren’t interested in each other’s beliefs.
[i] Has the war in Syria caused destruction in your region? Have any of your family members been killed?
[r] Yes, 70% of the area where I lived has been completely destroyed; buildings, farms, everything has been destroyed. My uncle was killed there during an air strike. Another uncle has been detained by the Syrian regime for four years, we know nothing about him. My grandfather’s house has been destroyed. The situation in Idlib is very difficult and it is now one of the most dangerous cities in Syria. My grandfather and my grandmothers are there, they have not left.
[i] Do you think the revolution in Syria has helped or caused a lot of damage?
[r] No, it caused a lot of destruction and changed people’s mentality enormously. It created racism, wars between people, many died, bloodshed, many detainees, orphans, martyrs… The war is terrible and many people regret starting it.
[i] Finally, what would you like to say to the Belgian people?
[r] I would like to say that Belgians are not fanatical people, they are very nice, but there are some problems they don’t know how to solve, such as racism. There are many good people, but there are also some bad people. The voice of the good people is not loud enough. Although there are many good Belgians, we do not hear their voices. Usually, during municipal or party elections, the extreme parties win. There are many good people, they should stand up and make their voices heard.
[i] Regarding … the complete disappearance of your fear of the future, since Belgium became your country and you are staying here now, do you think the situation will get better or worse, based on your personal insight?
[r] I think it will get better. Because… Belgium should be a truly democratic country, because there are people here of all beliefs. There are people from different countries, different people. There needs to be a law that respects the beliefs of all those people.
[i] Regarding racism, some people are afraid of the unknown or they are afraid of change, this causes fear for them and they try to protect themselves. Do you think that many people do not know your intentions?
[r] We have no intention of changing other people. First we have to change ourselves before we start thinking about changing others. Our intentions when we arrived here were not to change others. How do we feel about changing others, and are we changing? There are many girls and women who took off their headscarves because of the pressure on them. Who is trying to change others here? We stopped thinking about changing others a long time ago; we are the ones who are changing now, and defending our beliefs has become less important. We must first be able to protect our own beliefs before we can even think about changing others. As I said, if we wanted to convert people, we would have converted the people in our country. We respect the beliefs of all people, but we also expect them to respect our beliefs.
[i] If a journalist in the future…
[r] If Allah wills it.
[i] What do you expect the Belgian media to tell people?
[r] They should report more good news about refugees and stop portraying them in a negative light. The media play a very important role. Without the media, people would never know what happens in wars. The media have a great influence on people. When they show a good image of something, people will respond positively. People will then respond personally to those who do wrong. Now the media show a very bad image of refugees. That is why many people unintentionally respond badly to refugees.
[i] In your opinion, the media are…
[r] The media should show the good things.
[i] …the media are responsible for people’s negative reactions towards refugees, aren’t they?
[r] Yes, I think so. There are several reasons, not just one.
[i] When a refugee does something wrong …
[r] Yes, they judge us all when one person does something wrong. Just as there are good and bad people in Belgium, there are also good and bad refugees. Every person represents themselves, they don’t represent everyone. When a Syrian does something wrong, judge him or her alone, but don’t judge all Syrians for what he or she has done. When a refugee who isn’t even Syrian does something wrong and is then punished for what he has done, people criticise all refugees. This is not logical. If someone has done something wrong, punish him or her alone, not everyone else. Some people do wrong things, but others pay for their mistakes.
[i] Thank you very much, [name]! And I wish you a happy life, and I hope you overcome all the obstacles that
[r] As Allah wills.
[i] now and in the future stand in your way. I also wish that you find people who have a merciful and kind heart to compensate for the death of your father.
[r] Thank you!
[i] And I hope that you find people who will support you in this difficult life here. Thank you.
[r] Thank you!