[Plays Oed]
[i] Thanks. That’s a nice piece you played.
[r] Thank you.
[i] Do you know what you played now and what instrument did you play, did you play this song?
[r] Yes, I composed this song a month ago and it’s called The New World. And the reason was that I saw that boat of fugitive, sunk in the sea. That’s why I wrote this piece. And yes this I do on oed. And oed is an instrument from the Middle East and the difference with oed and guitar. Oed is actually the predecessor of guitar. And he plays with, yes, plectrum and the big difference is that it’s not fret so you play completely fretless. And specifically comes from Middle East.
[i] From the Middle East.
[r] Yeah.
[i] I see a CD next to you.
Oh, yeah.
[i] Actually, I can do it myself, and can you tell me something about it? [name]
[r] Yeah, this has been a project from, yeah, about five years now. I have a lot of concerts in Amsterdam. And when I was in Holland. Then I started performing a lot in Amsterdam. And often with musicians about music and stuff. But I’m surprised that a lot of musicians especially western musicians had no idea at all about eastern music. So I had to explain the whole time. And they didn’t know if the oed with, so this instrument fits with, fits with western instruments as well, like piano and clarinet. So I thought, hey, I’m really going to make a project where I say connect the oath with piano and clarinet. That’s actually why I was, I made a cd, it’s written for piano and oed and clarinet for music. So kind of integration in the sense of music. So integration not just in the sense of people who just want other… society, but also how do you deal with music and culture? Hence have this, this was the cause of.
[i] And what year did you CD…
This was 2010.
And have you sold a lot of it?
[r] Yes, I have, by the way, it’s called “Under Another Heaven”. So not the heaven where I was born, so Dutch heaven, that’s why it was kind of a… Maybe in front of the camera. Yeah, kind of, yeah, it’s kind of vague that I’m actually ending up in a different heaven now. And this was in 2010 and I’ve, yeah, sold over 600 CDs so…
[i] That’s quite a lot for a CD.
[r] Yeah, still, I still got it. So if I have a gig… And then I’m gonna take that CD with me and I can sell it.
[i] Can they order people or is it at the bookstore, yeah, I mean at the music store?
[r] Yes, of course, at music stores as well, but also through my website www.monirgoran.nl. But they can also buy them personally when I’m performing.
[i] How important is this CD to you?
[r] This has been very important, this CD was open to me. So for me it was actually…that it was, for me, the new corridor in the Netherlands, like passport. This was for me a kind of passport that I eventually made myself. But because of that I had made a lot of acquaintance. And a lot through this cd I got to know a lot of people. And a lot of people liked it as well. So it was a kind of passport for me.
[i] Okay, so nicely said passport.
Yes, but in the sense of, yes… Passport in the sense that as a musician I can now perform anywhere, yes.
[i] This is very nice for you.
[r] Yeah, thanks.
[i] Did you tell me when you first came to Holland?
[r] Yes, I came to Holland at the end of 1999. It was in the summer, so I think I’ll take a look at September 15th. Yeah.
[i] And did you come straight to Utrecht or was it somewhere else?
[r] No, in the beginning I went via Maastricht, so to speak. So I came via Belgium to Maastricht and after that I went to the temporary [temporary] asylum seekers’ centre. And after that I was in Geleen for a while, so in Limburg, I lived there and from 2000… According to me 1 [2001] I went to live in Utrecht.
[i] What was your impression when you first came to the Netherlands?
[r] Yes, it was really amazing that everything is different here. We had to do everything again… everything again. And everything from the beginning, just like you were born. If you’re in Holland I thought oh, am I born again? Then with different culture, with different colour, with different, yes, experiences. With different kinds of people. Yeah, this was for me, yeah, very, yeah, amazing.
[i] Did you have to get used to getting to know new people, speaking?
[r] Yeah, of course, sure. Look, I’ve got quite a bit about… western literature and western history. But still, if you’re really there, really, it’s different. Then you really have to let me know how that works first. And at first it was hard, because you couldn’t understand… what it… How should you adapt to that culture and in what way? But, yes, as soon as you stay in the Netherlands any longer, you start to, yes, understand.
[i] And you live in Utrecht?
[r] Yes.
[i] Where do you live, in which neighbourhood?
[r] Hoograven, yes, in Utrecht.
[i] What about it? Are you happy there? Do you have good contacts with people?
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Very good. Yeah, it’s very good. I’m married, too. I have two daughters. And, yes, I live very well with others, so good neighbors and, yes.
[i] And are you gonna visit each other or are you gonna visit each other?
[r] Oh, yeah. Yeah, every now and then, but yeah, you can, if you compare it to where I’m from. Yeah, those… I mean, the connection between people, especially here, a little less, I miss.
[i] What do you miss?
[r] Do I miss it when I compare it to my other life when I was in Kurdistan, Iraq. Then I still miss the connection between people here that the real everyone… goes… First for themselves and then with others, so, but I miss that kind of relationship here in Holland.
[i] So you see the society of Kurdistan, Iraq is very different from here?
[r] Yes, of course, but that’s what I want to say. I don’t mean negatively, it’s kind of, how do you say? Look, um… all the places, I think, where you are in this world has advantages and disadvantages. And I see it that way.
[i] And when you see yourself like that, are you integrated in Dutch society?
[r] Yes, I think so, integration is a concept, I think it’s relative. So integrating what is for me means… That you’re just good with people. And can you also adapt to what people here have the norms and values of people. And I think I can integrate well in this country.
[i] And what kind of education have you done here in the Netherlands?
[r] Yes, I had done some training. First of all, yeah, I did NT2. I did music conservatory, but I didn’t finish it. But I also did training for computer ICT.
[i] Where was that music education?
[r] In Arnhem, that’s classical department, guitar classical.
And what can you tell me what you learned there?
[r] Oh, I learned very well, very well I think it’s essential of music I learned there. Do I have to be that way, very honest. Because that’s where you learn, especially when you’re at the conservatory, you really learn how to produce the piece of music. And in what way should you… play it. And that was actually very essential for me.
And do you still have contacts with those students from back then?
[r] No, unfortunately not, no, yes this was ten or twelve years ago now, I think. Or thirteen years ago, yeah, something like that.
[i] And what are your hobbies?
[r] Yes, there are many, I have many hobbies. I love to read, I read all kinds of things. Philosophy, poems, stories, short stories. And occasionally scientific, but I also like sports. I always go running, running, and also sometimes I play tennis. And cycling too.
[i] That’s part of it.
[r] Yeah.
[i] What’s your interest, what’s your passion? What do you get excited about? What makes you enthusiastic? What makes you happy?
Oh, everything to do with meaning. Look, I’ll be happy if I have a good lunch, for example. Or when I listen to beautiful music. Or when I go out with a good friend. So for me, it’s a lot, that makes me very happy and interesting.
[i] About love, you said you’re married?
[r] Yeah, yeah.
[i] Long ago?
[r] Yeah, yeah, now I’ve been married almost 13 years. And we met 14 years ago. So I was just in Holland. And my wife yes, we still live happily together. And we have two children. And yes, love goes well too.
[i] That’s nice for you.
[r] Yes, thank you.
[i] And you said you live in Utrecht, but you go to Amsterdam a lot?
[i] Talked about it. And when you go to Amsterdam, what’s besides you playing and stuff… What’s your feeling, what’s your impression of the city of Amsterdam?
[r] Oh, this is a really great city and it makes me feel like it’s really a metropolis. When I’m in Amsterdam, I don’t think I’m in Holland. Yeah, well, I mean, on the one hand, yeah, I’m in Holland, but on the other hand, there are so many nationalities. So many other activities in Amsterdam. And so many, look, when I’m in Amsterdam, I’m obviously going to talk English to people. Now that has become normal that everyone in Amsterdam almost speaks English. And… I also find the city very lively, when I look for example. In Amsterdam you can go anywhere to a restaurant with a lot of different cuisines. For example, Italian, French, Japanese, Chinese, Turkish, Moroccan, Iraqi, Kurd [Kurdish]. All those nationalities then you think, jeez, this is really a lively city for me. Yeah, and when I have gigs there, and after gigs, I often eat there and then I often go to the Iraqi restaurant, yeah.
[i] And where did you perform in Amsterdam?
[r] Yeah, last time was at, uh, Bob House Vel [The Bob Vlake House]. And this was a, I think ten days ago, yeah, this was in Amsterdam Keizerstraat.
[i] And what occasion was it?
[r] Keizersgracht sorry, yes this was Liberation Day and I have, yes, performed there with…yes, with my colleague [Name].
[i] Was a nice performance.
[r] It was a nice performance, yes.
[i] And did you also perform somewhere else in Amsterdam?
[r] Yeah, oh yeah. I also performed everywhere at Bimhuis. Performed at [Podium] Mosaic, and, yes, there are a lot of places where I performed. Also at the zoo, but I forgot the name in Amsterdam. I think Zoo, no.
[i] Artis.
[r] Yeah, Artis. Yeah, I performed there too, yeah.
[i] And are you going to Amsterdam, besides just, day with your wife or alone, are you going to Amsterdam too?
[r] Yeah, too. I used to go there a lot, more than now. It was because my father lived there in Amsterdam. And unfortunately, he’s not anymore. But also that I often, yeah, go to museums with my wife. Look very nice museum. And I also have friends there, I go to visit friends. And I like Amsterdam, my favourite city in the Netherlands.
[i] Okay.
[i] How long have you lived here now? [name] For 16 years.
[r] In Utrecht, you mean, or?
In Holland, I mean.
[r] Now, yes, it’s almost 16 years.
[i] And what about your nostalgia for your homeland?
[r] Oh, yeah, that’s, uh, homesickness, I guess. With your day, sometimes when it rains here, I get homesick a lot. Because in my childhood I always had, when I remember it was sunny and when it rains here in Holland, and it often does, unfortunately. Then I think oh my gosh, I just want to see blue skies. And I often miss this, and that’s, that’s for weather. But I’m also homesick for other things, like friends. I used to have a lot of friends. And in our culture, people have a lot of friends. And sometimes I miss that. And fortunately now we have Facebook and through Facebook we have found some friends. But then there is always a kind of nostalgia for the past and for youth and for… Then and to that time and to the food. And family and everything.
[i] And do you visit your homeland?
[r] Yeah, I went there last year, yeah. Yeah, I go there once in a while. And then I often go for family visits, so I also want to see my brothers and sisters. And family and friends, too, and, yeah, I’m gonna do this a lot.
[i] And what kind of family are you from? How was…
[r] Oh, yeah.
What was your family like?
Yeah, my family, I had a big family, I guess everybody has that in the Middle East. So me, we were 11 people with my parents. So 9 kids and two mom and dad, but also my grandmother lived with us when I was very little. And we actually came from secular family, so we’re from secular family. And they often loved art and culture, but also politics. So we… As far as our family is concerned, it’s very important that we actually loved art more and also politics.
[i] And how was your childhood? What did it look like?
[r] Yes… childhood is difficult, look I had a good childhood. But on the other hand, it was also bad. If I compare it with now, these days youth here in the Netherlands. Because I was 5 years old when the war between Iraq and Iran started. And this was, that’s how I got thrown out with the war. And when I left the country, there was also a kind of war with America. So I’ve seen a lot of wars in my youth. That’s on the one hand, but on the other hand, I also had a lot of good memories. Especially when I was in high school. When I was an adolescent and in love with girls. I remembered that I often skipped school and just went to other schools where girls were watching girls. That’s what I did, that was also good, say good feeling, makes me feel good.
Do you miss that time, if you think about it now?
Once in a while I miss time and I think that makes sense, because I live in, yeah… I had lived in Iraq for up to 25 years and so I have lived in my country for a very long time and every now and then that just comes up. And especially if you do it with the weather that I just told you and then it really comes to mind and sort of… And by the way I also have my CD I have one, one piece I called nostalgia what you’re asking now. So I thought I had a lot of nostalgia in that period and when I was 10 so I wrote a piece, yes, for piano and oed.
[i] It’s nice that your feelings your nostalgia can lose your thoughts or use your art with your music.
[r] Yes, it’s very beautiful. I think that’s one of the things that really calms me down. But also things that calm me down are just, like me, if the weather is nice then I’m going to enjoy life like this. That’s when it really comes and that’s when it calms me down.
[i] Do you also listen to other musicians?
[r] I think I listen to other musicians more than my own CD [laughing]. Yes, of course I do. But the older you get, the more critical you become. So, because I’m getting a little older now, I used to listen to music just like that. But now I really want to listen to music with attention and especially structures.
[i] And which musician, for example, do you listen to?
[r] There are a lot of differences. I think it’s actually general…
[i] What do you like best for yourself?
[r] Yes, that’s hard to say.
[i] Okay.
[r] Because the pretty one comes naturally whether it’s jazz or Middle Eastern music. Or Arabic or Kurdish, or classical, or… flamenco. There are so many different ones and we live in a period where everything blends actually. Like, like I told you, like… Like Amsterdam. There are so many beautiful things. But I’m gonna name what I like. I like classical music, Bach for example. It’s very beautiful. Beethoven, they’re my great master. But I also like romance very much. Especially Spanish musicians. Tárrega, for example. And also Albanais. I like modern music very much. Especially Russian [?] musicians. And also music from Latin America. I think it’s very beautiful. Flamenco. I often listen to it. And I also listen to Middle Eastern music. Especially that meditative side. I think it appeals to me very much.
Are you inspired by them too?
[r] Certainly. Sure, that’s… …I think subconsciously. And sometimes consciously. But… but… The music… just touches me. If it’s beautiful. So I’m not gonna see if it’s… if it clicks. Kind of, that it, it just has to click or not. That’s how it works with me.
You play, I know, two instruments.
One you’ve already played.
Yeah, it was oed.
And you play the guitar, too.
Yeah, I just told you about the guitar. This is guitar, so I don’t think I have to explain to people, but [plays on guitar] I’ve done classical and I often try for classical music. But I also play… Not only play the guitar, classical pieces, but I also sing. Yeah.
[i] Singing.
[r] Yes.
[i] Would you like to play something for us at, what you want.
Okay, see if you can do it. [Guitar playing] [Guitar playing and singing] [Guitar playing and singing]
[i] Beautiful.
Yes, thank you. This is on guitar, yeah.
[i] Sounds very emotional song to me at least. Can you tell what it was about, little bit the music?
Yes, this piece is very old actually, this is 19…89 [1989] by my brother, old brother has composed, written and also the lyrics and later I just arranged it for guitar, so to speak. It’s about, yes, this is 1988 when a lot of Kurds in Kurdistan have been arrested and disappeared by former Iraqi regime, among them, two cousins of mine. And my brother who wrote that text for them. It’s about their… soul.
[i] So it’s a real story?
[r] Just like Jews in Holland.
[i] And at what point do you decide which instrument you’re going to play?
Ah, this is a good question, this is, I often work with my colleague so [Name] and…. If I… We also have some kind of program, show. And performance is about the story of the flight, how we came to the Netherlands. Then I have discussed with him when he recites poems, for example, then I’m going to play more oed, while he… If, for example, he has just told a story, then I’m going to make music. Or I’m going to sing. So this is different, this has to do with the program how do you go with the program…
…tune it.
[r] Tuning in, yeah.
And… do you have a religion, do you believe in anything?
No, of course I believe in myself, but religion as far as God is concerned, no. I’m an Atheist, so… And there are a lot of people in our country who were raised. That’s just for your information, because there are also a lot of people who… raised in… Secularism and they don’t actually have religion.
[i] And how could you describe yourself? What kind of…
[r] Person.
[i] Person are you, yes?
[r] Okay. I actually love myself… and I love others, too. And I often go, when I keep something to myself, I want the others, too. So if I have something for myself, I want to share it with other people. And I think that’s because I see myself as a person who always wants to help others.
[i] Helpful.
[r] Helpful and I always actually want to make people happy and happy.
[i] And what about your health, are you healthy?
[r] Well, happily healthy and I got a little sick a while ago. I have, I had a little high blood pressure, but right now I’m fine. And I’m exercising so it’s going well.
[i] Do you have any fantasies in your life about, like, your future what do you want?
[r] Oh yeah, of course, yeah, without fantasy, I think, one can’t live, so of course I always have, look always I kind of when I go to bed and get up I think, yeah, I’m born again. So for me every day I have a new path I have to choose in my life and go 100 percent for that it’s going to be something completely new, something completely new, something completely new, something completely new. So for me fantasy is very important, plays a very important role in my life. And I always want it to do something I haven’t achieved so far. For example, as a musician I want to get more attention and I often do more, for example, contact and networking. To broaden my networks and because I often listen to my story through my music people also listen to my feelings to my, yes, personality.
[i] How long have you been living in Utrecht?
[r] Yes, 13, no sorry, 14 years.
[i] And how do you like Utrecht?
[r] Oh, Utrecht? Yeah, Utrecht’s become my second city. I’m from Kirkuk, where I’m from. So where I was born and sometimes I think I was born in Utrecht. So Utrecht actually became my second hometown. And this has to do with, because my two children who were born here. And I often go to city with my boyfriend, with my friends. Do we often go when the weather is nice, just walk along Oude Gracht. And sometimes we go for a sandwich, a nice sandwich and I enjoy the atmosphere actually in Utrecht. But I also think Utrecht has a lot to offer culturally speaking.
[i] And do you also here …
[r] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[i] With art, with your performance?
[r] Yes, yes, of course, I think Utrecht is one of the social, say, city in the Netherlands. Because there are a lot of activities here, for example… Literature House, Rasa for example, I have performed at Literature House and also at… other places in Utrecht I have performed and at Sju house and yes.
[i] What is Rasa anyway? Which place?
[r] Yes, Rasa is actually meant for musicians especially for world music. And Rasa is going to invite all the musicians in the world… that have to do with world music and is actually often performed there by people who come from Japan. So with also crazy instruments that we’ve never seen. They come to Rasa and then you can go there for very little money and enjoy your day. For example, the last time I played music … South Korea. It was really great music and also from Vietnam was really beautiful musical instruments. Really beautiful stringed instruments and sometimes you have very nice music from Latin America with rhythmic like, very beautiful. So for me Rasa is really one of the most beautiful places in Utrecht.
[i] And do you feel safe in Utrecht, but also when you are going to perform in Amsterdam? Do you feel safe?
[r] Safe in what sense?
[i] Just safe, when you go outside, you think, yeah, I’m just safe here. That it’s not violence, that it doesn’t see bad people. That you’re comfortable with yourself.
[r] Yeah, yeah.
[i] No problem?
[r] Yeah. I feel very safe, and this is certainly because I feel on the inside how important democracy is. Democracy offers everything to people and I often have to say that often… somewhere when democracy comes, it means that people can feel safe and express their opinions safely. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[i] So you’re saying that democracy creates security.
[r] Provides.
[i] Provides security.
Yeah, provides security and also provides the feeling… that you’re something. That you mean something, that you can mean something to others. And I certainly will when I go outside. And I see so colourful people, for example when I go to the city of Utrecht or when I go to Amsterdam I see so colourful people of different nationalities with different ideas. Churches, people who believe in churches, people who believe in mosques. People believe in other things, people don’t have faith. This is such a bundle. A bundle makes everything strong. And that’s yes, this offers.
[i] What are your future plans, is a new CD coming, for example?
[r] Yeah, yeah, yeah. I’m busy right now… I’m working on… new CD, but this time, I think it’s gonna be vocal, so singing with guitar and oed. And I hope I can get inside… I’ll be done with that CD in a year’s time. And in the future I’ve just made a flight story with a colleague I just told. And we just want to conquer Dutch with our flight story, yes, it’s a very special story.
[i] Did you bring this up with another organization?
Yes, yes, we have… …many times, so we’ve also performed a few times. And last time we performed it in Amsterdam, it was real. The audience was very enthusiastic and we had a very good reaction. And next week we have good, we go back to Amsterdam to Bimhuis. Then we’re going to pitch there. And we’re going to show a piece of our performance. And we hope to go on tour in the Netherlands soon.
[i] You said you would, yes I wish you the best of luck with that.
[r] Thank you.
[i] You said your first CD was all music, no…
[r] Vocal, no.
No vocal, no singing with that. And now you’re gonna sing with a vocal.
Do you know anything you’re doing for a new CD right now, or is that a lot to ask?
[r] Yeah, I just spelled for you, but I’m gonna think of something again. I’m not gonna tell you everything.
[i] No, no, no. Look what you want, a piece of cake.
I played piece.
Sounds very nice.
Yeah, thank you.
[i] Have you changed into Holland, or the other way around? Have you learned new things here? Or what were the things you learned here?
This is the most beautiful question I’ve ever heard, really in my life. Because you are when you come here, or at least what I felt when I came here, to Holland. I just said, I was reborn here. And that means, everything to do with you in terms of personality, in terms of feeling, in terms of perspective. Are you going to come here again… see if, yes, discover. Actually discover. I can get to know my personality better here through my environment. My culture when I go back to Iraq and Kurdistan. Then, thanks to the Netherlands, I will have got to know my culture better. Criticism, how should you be critical? In what way, thanks to the Netherlands I am very much now I know when to be critical? When should I give my vision? When not? So I have to look at things, for example, look sharply at the form. The, and also if I compare me now then. Before I came here. I think I’ve become a totally different person. Then, yes, 16 years ago. And thanks to the Netherlands, really totally different, I got different perspective in life. Got different feelings, got to know different culture. And also inside you hear that you’re actually… I learned it here. That I now know who I am and what I want and what I actually have. And Dutch people are often going to say, show what you can do. Showing you how to do your best, this sentence, for example, I think it’s the most beautiful…
[i] I see that you have become completely happy with the question actually, a lot of things come true.
[r] Yes, it is actually, I think, I think, I myself think, if you ask this question to foreigners or natives, foreigners are sorry. I think that’s what they actually felt. If you say so, yeah, and how do you feel that and what was it? And what changed your perspective, for example. These are, I think, more difficult questions that have to do with your feelings, but to actually put them into context or form is often difficult. Because it has to do with something that is in people’s feelings.
[i] Are you proud of who you are?
[r] Yes, I am proud of myself, and also of my work what I do. Because I think what I do is, of course, in the Netherlands as a musician you can never get rich, but I have become richer inside. And I do my best to just make other people happy from my music as well. I’m very proud of that.
[i] You say you’ve become rich inside. Can you explain to me more, what do you mean by getting rich inside?
[r] Yes, that you got rich through music, but also through culture and literature. Go discover yourself [unintelligible], then when you are discovered yourself, then you know who you are. And what is your task in this world? Then you’re glad you know. Because that is actually the most difficult question there is. Who am I?
[i] I know that besides your passion for music, but you read, you’re a good reader actually.
Yeah, I read, yeah. Do I have to tell you anything about that?
[i] Yes, please.
[r] Books what I read, yeah, I actually like. The books I read are different. For example, I like philosophy, but I don’t go deep into philosophical conversations. For example, there are people who are really specialized. But I just want to get to know it a little bit, the philosophy to see myself better and see the world better. And I also like literature, I read literature to see what are the possibilities in literature. And why people are like that, and why they actually write like that. In what way why written that way what is the purpose of? So this is curiosity, and I love science especially about the universe. I like it, yes, so. Universe is something very abstract to us. And if as soon as I discover something abstract or that abstract knowing then, for me, actually. So that’s why I love, yes, literature and science.
Do you also read novels?
Yes, novels, yes, of course, and short stories. I have novels. I also read Russian novels. But also Dutch novels, also Middle East novels. And sometimes one novel appeals to me very much, others don’t, but I think so with everyone. Yeah. And adding one, for example, I love history very much.
[i] History.
Yes, history.
[i] What kind of history in general?
[r] Very general, for example, now I’m working on history of Sumerian [Sumerians]. And Sumerian were first people who actually lived in Iraq. And they also made some kind of civilization. And now I’m reading a novel about that, about history. And also about cuneiform writing. It’s also very special that she’s got the language. Yeah.
[i] I think there’s also an Epic Gilgamesh.
[r] Yeah, I haven’t read Gilgamesh, I’ve heard Gilgamesh. And I know the story of Gilgamesh, and, the king actually. And but I haven’t read this yet, but maybe next year.
[i] Will come.
Yeah, I guess so.
[i] And what were the most important events in your life in Holland?
[r] In Holland.
[i] Yes.
[r] In Holland were the most important events when I moved to Utrecht. From Limburg, I lived in the city of Geleen and then I moved to Utrecht. And in Utrecht, actually, I got to know the Netherlands better. Because in Geleen you didn’t have so many cafes and not so many things where you can see other people. But in Utrecht, when I came here, I often went to ‘t Hoogt for example to pubs, multicultural pubs. And that’s where I got to know Dutch society a lot.
[i] So that was very important to you?
[r] Yes, that was really important, yes, turning point in my life in Utrecht.
[i] And what were the important events in your homeland?
[r] Yes, unfortunately.
[i] Remembrance or remembrance is also possible.
[r] Unfortunately, unfortunately, I must say so. The war with Iraq and Iran, and war started when I, I remember when I was 5 years old. And then those planes started bombing. And I didn’t know anything about it, so we had to take shelter right away. And yeah, it was a terrible story for me, and I can’t leave this behind. Always comes back to me. And also about those Kurds who then in 1988 under 2 cousins of mine. I just sang the song, 180 Kurds have disappeared. And I was very sorry too, did my… Yes, history really touched my feelings.
[i] You play 2 instruments, you’ve made a cd and you’re making a new cd with vocal singing in it. You’re married, you have 2 children. I consider all that kind of stuff as a contribution. Your contribution to life, and your contribution to the city of Amsterdam and also to Utrecht. Is there anything else you want to add, do you understand?
[r] Yeah, contribution, yeah, okay.
Yeah. I just want to play it a little oed if I can, okay?
Yeah, sure.
[r] Look, contribution, that’s a tough word. I think every human being on earth has a duty to contribute. And, but I was born, I guess, to be a musician. So I can always with music something maybe make people more cheerful and curious. Yeah, I’m gonna play something, this is purely based on… [Votes oed] [Plays oed]
[i] [Name], thanks for the call.
[r] Please.
[i] Very nice to hear your music too.
[r] You’re welcome, and you’re welcome.
[i] Yes, thank you.
[r] Bye.