SU_A_31

[i] Good afternoon, my name is [name]. Today I will interview you for the project Specially Unknown, the European oral history project. And before I start with my questions, can you please tell me a little bit about yourself? What is your name? How old are you? From which country are you?
[r] Yes, thank you for giving me this opportunity to talk about these issues and myself. My name is [name]. I’m from Balochistan. Well, nobody knows about it. It’s an occupied territory divided into three countries right now. Pakistan, Iran and Afghanistan. I’m 30 years old and I was a political activist in Balochistan. So that was the reason I’m today here.
[i] And now, can you tell a little bit more about your country? Is there a national language or is there some specific ethnical group?
[r] Yes, it’s an ethnical group called Baloch, which is living there for, we believe, like thousands of years. It’s our land. And recently also, some civilization has been found there, the remains of a civilization, which also, in some things, some ways, cultural embroidery or many other ways, connect us to that civilization, which is, according to scientists, more or less 9000 years old. So we have been living on this land for years. And it was before the Confederacy. And then, when after the British, and I will make it short, because it’s a long history. After the British arrival, and then they left the region, so it was, again, announced, an independence, independent country Balochistan. And so, but after nine months, it was occupied by Pakistan. We have our own language, Baluchi, and another dialect, Birabi. Two languages are spoken there. We have our own culture, norms, values, everything according to a definition of nationalism, or we believe it’s a nation. We have those all, you can say, bits or factors of being a nation. And after the occupation, Baluchistan has never accepted this occupation by Iran before, and then by Pakistan. The other part was given to Afghanistan, which is not occupied by Afghanistan, which was given by a British […], if I’m not wrong, Durand, Mr. Durand. And this line between… the border of Afghanistan and today’s Pakistan. The part of Baluchistan was given to Afghanistan, and some parts of Afghanistan was given to Pakistan. That’s called Durand Line, which Afghans also don’t accept, and we also don’t accept that line, Durand Line. So they don’t have any issues with this. They also accept that this part has always been Baluchistan. So we don’t have issues with Afghans, but yeah. In India, people of Pakistan are fighting against the occupation of Iran and Pakistan. So there has always been war, especially after these occupations of Pakistan, after more or less 70 years it has been passed. So it has its ups and downs. Five insurgencies have occurred in the region. This is the fifth insurgency, which started in 2000, and still it’s going on. Currently these are the issues, I guess. And since you were a child, has the situation changed about the occupation? You said that it’s occupied by Iran, Pakistan, and has it changed, or has it always been the same? It has been the same, always. Well, in my area… In my village, of course, it has been now… it was occupied by Pakistan in 1948. So, yeah, when I was born, I was born at the end of the occupation. But the other one was occupied by Iran earlier. And what have your parents told you about this situation, about the occupation? Not very clearly, well, but it’s always a story, as I told you, it’s not the first insurgency which is going on now in Pakistan. It’s the fifth one. The first one was the very next day after the occupation in 1948. It was a kingdom, actually. The king’s brother started the revolution against the invasion. So those stories, and after that in 1958, another insurgency. And then 60s, 70s, it has always been war in its peak. And then it goes down, of course, by the pressure and counterinsurgency of the states. So it has always been this situation there. So we have heard about the insurgencies. And those people are called heroes there. So, of course, our parents have always told us about it. About the stories about how our ancestors, how our people have fought for their independence. So we kind of knew about it from the childhood.
[i] And how has it been for you to grow up in a country or in the area that is occupied by other countries? What feelings did you have since your childhood?
[r] Well, in childhood, of course, as I said, it was not so clear. And we were still like in the schools. And if I am talking about my childhood, it was a time when the last insurgency was in a kind of down position. And again, the things were like, you know, so-called normal, as they say, which were never normal. Because the fighting was still going on in other places. And people were migrating to Afghanistan and other places like Russia. And so fighting was going on in mountainous areas, in remote areas, which we people who were living in cities were not much aware of that. So that was a time, those some years. And, of course, the insurgency was in its down moments. So we grew up in schools, where there was Pakistani anthems and stuff. But there was always, there has always been an organization which is called BSO, Baloch Student Organization. Actually, that is what we call it, a mother organization, because it has always played its role in giving the knowledge to students, especially in schools and colleges everywhere. So it has always given this, played its role to let us know about our history, history of Balochistan and its occupation. And so… But yeah, life, because of the occupations, as you asked, there has been always division, division of people of this part. The other people, like same family, some of relatives live in the part of Pakistan side, others live in Iran and others live in Afghanistan. First of all, this division has always been a problem for the people of Balochistan because they couldn’t get connected easily. And after that, of course, these states have always kept these regions very backward. There are no much facilities of education, medical, and many basic facilities are not, you cannot find in Balochistan. So it has always been problems.
[i] And what was the situation with traveling from, for example, Iran to Pakistan or Afghanistan when you were a child? Like, was it possible or not?
[r] Well, I haven’t, when I was a child, I didn’t travel there. And most of my family is in this Balochistan which is occupied by Pakistan. But I’m talking about, in general, about the people of Balochistan which are living near the border areas. Their relatives and people are on the other side. So I didn’t need to go on the other side to cross the borders. But it has always not been easy for people. They need a visa and other all requirements you have to fulfill. And also checking and all. And we have always been seen as troubles who is coming, crossing the border from this side. And they were looking at us as troublemakers for them.
[i] So if, for example, a part of the family is living in Iran and part in Pakistan, then it’s also difficult to visit each other.
[r] Yeah, it is difficult. But it’s not impossible. It’s difficult, yeah.
[i] And what kind of documents did, how to say right, Balochian people?
[r] Yeah.
[i] Balochian people, what kind of documents they would have? Like the passport, is it written something about nationality, Balochian? Or it’s also only like Pakistan or Iran?
[r] Yeah, they are on whichever part in which state Balochian people are living, they have the identity card of that country. Unfortunately, we are going through this identity crisis. Yeah, and nothing specific is mentioned on these identity cards or passports.
[i] So you cannot even have it like proven somewhere that you are Balochian person?
[r] No, not really.
[i] Because like, for example, if we compare the situations, not the same, of course, but like in Russia, if you are, you have some nationality, it’s also written in the passport. Like, for example, you can be Ukrainian, but having Russian passport. But if you say about Baloch, it’s like, not like that. No, it’s written like Pakistan.
[r] Yeah, it’s written Pakistan, Pakistani, or Irani, or Afghani. It’s not mentioned, this person is Balochi. Only the region where the person is born, the city’s name or the area’s name is mentioned. But, yeah. It doesn’t show the identity.
[i] And what kind of feeling did it give to you to realize that?
[r] Always it has given us the feeling, still today it is giving that feeling. Like, as I said, we are going through an identity crisis. Like, we can’t say, well, we can say, but many people don’t know who Baloch is. People today in the world. Rarely know about Baloch people. Because it has always been suppressed. Their voice has been suppressed. They haven’t got the chance to raise their voice. And introduce their culture, or nation, or their name to the world. It is, until today, it is the biggest and complicated question. Even for me. If someone asks, where are you from? I don’t want to be called a Pakistani. I don’t want to be called an Iranian. I am a Baloch. But, as I told you, like, there is no document proof. Or, it is today, it is not recognized as a country or as a nation. So, we have always been facing this problem.
[i] Even in the world, it is not recognized?
[r] No, not today. It is not recognized as a country. Today. I am talking about the current situation. Yeah. It is just… They counted Pakistan, Iran, or Afghanistan.
[i] And now, can you tell me a little bit about your family? Do you have brothers, sisters?
[r] Yes, I have one brother and three sisters. They are living in Balochistan. Khuzdar is my hometown. I am the eldest one in house.
[i] And your mother and father, they still live there?
[r] Yeah, they are living. They are still there.
[i] And now, can you tell a little bit about your childhood? How was it? What kind of child have you been? A little bit about your character as a child.
[r] I will try to remember my childhood. Well, I was like, I would say, a spoiled kid. I grew up in a family, you can say, upper middle class or like in a family where my father is a doctor and educated person. And he always tried to give us a good education. The school I used to go, like, every day. And I was… known in the city. And that respect because of my father and family I had. I don’t remember much. That’s what I know. Like, as I told you, I was a spoiled kid in my childhood.
[i] And how was it in school for you? In the elementary school?
[r] The school was good. I always liked school and studies. And because maybe it was… This thought is given by… It’s coming from my father. He loves the education and these things. And so he has always encouraged us and told us the value of education and knowing in school. So I have always liked.
[i] And after finishing secondary school… school… school… Confusing with that. What did you choose to study in university?
[r] Its education system is a bit different there. First, the ten years it’s called metric. Then two years it’s called college. FSE. Then comes university. So after first ten years, it was the basic science and all subjects. After that I chose computer science for two years. Institute of Biology. And after finishing those two years in ICS, intermediate computer science. I went for… I studied a bit also marine sciences in marine university. It was the first marine university in Balochistan. It was new at the time. So it was a change. I thought I should go for it. And I also have done bachelor’s in sociology.
[i] So you have three diplomas.
[r] No, not actually. I couldn’t finish my marine sciences course because of this crisis in life. But I only could the bachelor’s in sociology.
[i] And did you get a chance to work in Balochistan?
[r] At that time I was studying. It’s actually different there as compared to Europe and these countries. Like people here start working in their young age after high school. But there it’s more like we start working after finishing education or something. We live with our parents. So all the expenses they cover for us. So I was a student. I didn’t need to work.
[i] And for your brothers and sisters were the same? Did they also study in the university?
[r] My brother is now going to be in university. He has just finished high school. And my sister is studying in… Medical college. She wants to be a doctor. Other sister has done… She has done master’s. So she wants to be a teacher. And the other one is the young one.
[i] And in which language is the education in university?
[r] The language is Urdu. Pakistan’s national language. As they call it. Well, it’s not… Even the language which born in Pakistan. It’s a language from India. It’s a language born in India. Urdu. It’s a mixture of many languages. It’s Arabic, Persian, Hindi. So it’s Urdu there.
[i] So to study in university you need to learn the national language of the country. That you like of the Pakistan.
[r] Yes. You have to. Yeah. For study in schools, if you are going there, you have to learn.
[i] And are there some schools or universities in Baloch language?
[r] No. There is no university or school in Baloch language. Like it can be in just rural areas, remote areas where there are no schools at all. So people just try to teach voluntarily. The people of town or by themselves, they sometimes use the language of their own language. Otherwise officially it’s not there.
[i] And how is the process of passing the language to the new generations? If it’s like there is no even official school, so how is it going?
[r] It’s always difficult. It has been difficult. That’s why we feel the… To work on our language, many people are working on their own, creating libraries, trying to get funds, even raise funds from public. Like do things there on their own to promote their language, work on our language, Baloch grammar. But from the state’s side, government has done nothing in this situation to promote this language. Actually they don’t want this language anymore. So that’s why these languages, both these languages are like on the verge of death, you can say.
[i] And what is the amount of population in the world that is still speaking these two languages?
[r] I don’t know exactly the numbers.
[i] Approximately, maybe?
[r] Not really. I don’t have any idea. I don’t want to be wrong about it.
[i] Yeah.
[r] More or less 20 million people, I guess.
[i] And as you say that there is no like school or something to pass the language, it means that it’s decreasing every year, the amount of people?
[r] It has got… I guess the word is diluted.
[i] Yeah.
[r] Borrowing via words. The other language influence is covering it. So we feel bad about it. Because our language is getting…
[i] Mixed.
[r] Becoming a mixture of languages. But still it’s there. It’s alive. And we are hopeful that we will work on it whenever we got a chance. Or if we got our independence, we can still bring it in its own original shape. But now it’s difficult to work on the language.
[i] And now you said that you started to study the… Marine studies. And did you manage to finish it?
[r] No, I couldn’t finish it.
[i] And can you maybe remember the moment when you realized that you have to leave the country, you have to flee?
[r] Yeah, countries… Well, I was already underground before coming here to Europe. I got underground long ago, in 2011.
[i] What do you mean by underground?
[r] Well, I was studying in university. So as I mentioned or not, I was a political activist. I was also affiliated with BSO, Baloch student’s organization, Azad. So we were struggling for the rights and educational rights. And also supporting the independence. Our ideology was… is still pro-independence. Independence of Balochistan. Which is not allowed there. Freedom of expression or asking for your rights or your independence. It’s some kind of treason for the state. And you get… people get persecuted for this. Get killed, get kidnapped, abducted. Many of the students and members of BSO-Azad, and activists, political activists, are still missing for ten, ten years now. Today, the chairman of BSO-Azad, the vice-chairman of BSO-Azad, Zakir Majid, Zayed Kurb, these all people are missing in forced disappearance. Forcefully they are disappeared. By the state, by intelligence agencies. So political activists, they are not safe there. So many of my, as I mentioned, my friends, my colleagues, were abducted or killed. So there was a time I felt like I’m not safe also. I’m not safe anymore. So I went underground. I was hiding myself. I left the university. My studies, that was the reason to leaving the studies incomplete. And I also left my home because they were threatening my people, my family. And they attacked my house two times with hand grenade bombs. So I thought now this is the time I can’t be a trouble for them. So I went underground like with the people of other colleagues. The same like-minded people. They were giving us shelter sometimes in this one’s home, in that one’s, in villages, in other cities. Hiding yourself. So for many years I was underground. Then I, this circle, this grip of state was going more closer and tighter towards us. All these political activists. And even the people who were underground, who were hiding themselves, they were being captured or killed. So it wasn’t safe there anymore. That’s why I decided to leave the country.
[i] But how does it work? Like if, for example, if they’re following you, do they also follow your family?
[r] Yes, they do. They threat families. In my own city, Khuzdar, some of my friends, they were also involved in politics. And they were pro-freedom people. Their fathers were killed. Their brothers have been killed. Even they were not involved. One of my friends younger brother, 14 years old brother was killed. Just because his brother was a political activist. So families always pay the price.
[i] And when you were doing these activities, did you realize what danger can it be for you or for your family?
[r] Yes, we knew the consequences, what they are going to be. We always knew it. But when I realized the misery and the pain. And about my identity, which I don’t have, my people don’t have. And it’s the richest, one of the richest regions in the world, if you call it, Balochistan. With natural resources, minerals, fifth largest gold mine, gas, everything. And those people are dying by hunger. They don’t even have their food, proper food and facilities. And this on one side, this whole injustice. So even knowing the consequences, it is death or it is family’s loss. You can’t just sit down in your house with all these thoughts. They were always bothering you. So I went with my will.
[i] And what was the feeling of your family? How did they react on your activities?
[r] Well, no, any family wants their child or brother to be killed or they will be in trouble. So they didn’t want me to be in trouble. But they also didn’t put that much pressure on me to stop. They knew it’s my ideology. I believe in these thoughts. So, yeah. When you take a stance on something, then nobody can stop you.
[i] And do you still remember that moment when you took last decision that you have to flee?
[r] Yes. I remember it. I didn’t want to actually leave my country. But as I told you, the situation was like that. And I thought there is no other way to live here and do something. So I thought I should leave. It was a hard moment to leave the place, the people, the country that you have been doing struggle for. And, yeah, it’s not an easy moment.
[i] But what was the last drop for you to decide, okay, it’s enough. I have to go. I have to leave.
[r] Well, it has always been enough. But I was hoping that I can survive. I can survive like this, in hideouts, in an underground life. But it was also hard to… I was already… Like, I already left everything. Even I was in Balochistan, but I…
[i] So you didn’t have any communication with your family?
[r] No, when I was there, no. Just for their safety, I didn’t want to be…
[i] And for how long?
[r] For… More than five… Six years.
[i] Absolutely no communication with your family?
[r] No. I was just hearing news from other people, my other sources or friends. Like, they are okay, they are fine. I was getting the news indirectly from other sources.
[i] But what was their information about you? How did they get information about you?
[r] The same way… Yeah. But sometimes for years, for one year only, they couldn’t get information about me.
[i] And can you tell a little bit about that day that you decided to leave? How did you find a way to go?
[r] Well, it’s not like… You cannot mention a particular day, like I just now decide and I leave. It was cooking in my head when the situations were getting worse there. And it wasn’t a decision made in one day or night. And I just left like that. And it’s also not easy. You understand? It’s very far. It’s not like… You can say Syria. You have to just cross one or two countries, all those machines see and you are here. And it’s a very long, long route. And finding your people and ways to there… It took time, of course, to plan. And to think about it.
[i] How long did you prepare for it?
[r] Well, the idea was in my head. So I was working on it, getting information through my friends. Like what could be… How could be the ways? What are the ways? How I can get out from there? So I got suggestions. I got ways. I got many help from my friends. So it took me more or less one year to think.
[i] To prepare?
[r] Yeah. Actually, a bit less than one year.
[i] And can you tell a little bit about the way from Balochistan to Europe?
[r] Yes. I left from Balochistan. I crossed the border. Iran. I went there. As we have Baloch people live there, so it was easy to get shelter there for a couple of days. And then from Iran to Turkey and Bulgaria. Serbia. Croatia. Then Italy. And then France. And finally Belgium.
[i] But, I mean, can you tell more a little bit about procedures? How was it to cross the borders? What ways? What transport did you use?
[r] It’s not fixed anything there. It depends on the situations. Whatever you get the chance. Normally there are people who help you for this. They take some money. And they help you to cross the borders. They know the ways and how it’s their business. So they know it very well. They used to just tell us, like, wait in a jungle near the border in the middle of the night, three, four, anytime when it’s clear. So you can just run to cross the border and run for kilometers. And then when you crossing a border and entering into another country, in a city or town, then we used to use local transport, buses or things. We always had the guidance from that person who was helping us through this. It’s their business, as I told you. They were getting money for it. So living in different places, sometimes in tents, in jungles, sleeping, like, you know, just under the sky, this whole time it was a nice nightmare. It wasn’t an easy time. So in different countries, different situations, sometimes we were living in the refugee parks, like in Serbia or Bulgaria. In Turkey, we were getting some places through the help of this guy, his friends. They have people everywhere, their friends. Sometimes they were hiring private small mini-buses. When there were a lot of people, or a group of 10 to 12, they were passing in the city, only in the city. But all the borders, you have to cross by foot.
[i] And were there, like, mountains or rivers? Was it physically difficult?
[r] It was, it was physically difficult. The weather, somewhere cold, somewhere jungles, mountains. Like, there are no ways. There are ways just to cross the border. You choose your own way. Where there is no particular way or road, you can go. So we were just following instructions like, okay, now we have to run for kilometers, just straight in this direction. And you just run. And someone can fire on you, and someone can even attack. Anything could happen.
[i] And who are these someone?
[r] I mean, the border police can fire or they can arrest. It depends. In different countries, they have different rules. And they can shoot also in some countries.
[i] And were you in a group of how many people?
[r] It’s different. When we started from Iran, we were 10 to 12 people. And then they get lesser. Some people stay behind. Some people get arrested on the borders. Police arrest them. Some people manage to just cross the border and escape. Some can’t. So at the end, we left just four people when we reached in Italy.
[i] And in the beginning, did you know these people before? Or did you just get to know them?
[r] No, I didn’t know them before.
[i] So just like random people.
[r] Yeah.
[i] And what was the most difficult point in the whole trip, in the whole thing for you?
[r] All of it was difficult, I would say. I can’t choose a particular one.
[i] But have you been prepared mentally for the whole trip, how it’s going to be?
[r] Yes. As I told you, I was already underground. I was living in mountains, villages, out of my house somewhere. Also in a river, in a mountain. Sleep under the sky. Sometimes no food for three or four days. And because of the hideout, we were hiding ourselves in villages, in rural, remote areas where there is no sign of human sometimes. So I have already passed through these all hardships. So I was mentally ready, physically.
[i] For you, it was not something completely new.
[r] Not completely new. I was expecting this. So it was what I was expecting.
[i] And how many days did it last to get from Balochistan to Europe?
[r] It took me one year. Approximately one year.
[i] So you stayed also for several months in different countries?
[r] Yes, in Serbia and Bulgaria we stayed a bit longer. Because at that time it was very hard to cross the border. Borders were sealed and very strict. So we tried three times, four times, five times. We failed to cross the border. Then we had to go back again. So it took us some months.
[i] And what were the procedures like when you entered Europe? And you had to go further. What were the procedures on the borders?
[r] It depends. As I told you, in many places they send you back. In many places they arrest you. Well, I didn’t get caught, luckily. I would say I was lucky. Normally when they catch you on a border they send you back.
[i] Back to?
[r] Back to where you are coming from. Which country you are trying to cross the border. So the border police is on the border. So they just push you back. They go away. You are not allowed to cross or something. They scare you sometimes. Just do some firing in the air.
[i] But you have never been caught?
[r] No. Well, as I told you, I was pushed back to the other border. But never got caught in a jail or something.
[i] And in which country you have been pushed back?
[r] It was first from Bulgaria to Serbia. And then it also took many attempts from Serbia to Croatia. That was also hard.
[i] And how is it going on that they catch you? At which point did they catch you?
[r] If I may answer the question.
[i] What was the situation in which you got caught by the border police?
[r] I mean, they didn’t arrest us or something. They just pushed us back. Like, go away. And they were standing there. So you just can’t go further. They said, go back. So you have to come back.
[i] But they are not standing everywhere on the border.
[r] Not everywhere. Not every time. Specific. Yeah.
[i] So you just need to get lucky.
[r] To find the loopholes. Yeah. To breach.
[i] And there was also a specific guide who was helping with that.
[r] Yes. There was. There was always… In every country there is one. They all are linked. The human smuggling is their business.
[i] So in Europe and every border there were the border police? Like, the borders were closed?
[r] Yeah. Yeah. Many places there were. Mostly in Eastern Europe, as I said. Bulgaria, Serbia. Those were quite strict. But after crossing the Croatia, we sometimes at one place we took a taxi. But then entering on the Western Europe, it was easier. We used public transports.
[i] And how did you decide to go to Belgium, specifically?
[r] Well, I just wanted to go to Europe, especially Western Europe. So it could be anything. I was on my way also, contacting friends. Thinking where to go exactly. But anything was like France, Germany, Belgium. Anything was fine by me. But yeah, later then I talked to a friend. He also suggested me. He told me that procedure in Belgium. Because he got recognized here as a political refugee from Baluchistan. I would say maybe he was the first case. As long as minorities. So he suggested me like Baluchistan’s case is acceptable here also. And many facilities he was talking about for the refugees. So that’s why I preferred Belgium. I made my decision at the end.
[i] So you had already contacted him before coming?
[r] Yes, I was on my way. I was contacting friends.
[i] And he lives in Antwerp or in Brussels?
[r] No, he lives in Oostende.
[i] And what was the procedure for you coming to Belgium when you arrived in Belgium? How was it?
[r] When you arrive, you have to go to a commissariat. I went there. They took my fingerprints. And details. And they sent me a temporary camp. In Brussels. Near to Brussels. For 8 to 10 days. Then I was again called for further details. And then they sent me to Lint. Kontich. Antwerp region. So I was moved there. And the camp. After that I was waiting for my first interview. I was given a date. I went there for my first interview. They asked me all questions about the situation and all. And then again I was waiting for my second interview. For some couple of months. I would say I was lucky. The procedure was a bit faster. In my case. But otherwise many people wait there for years. Two years. Three years. So my whole process took 8 months. I guess. 8 to 10 months. And then my second interview. My interviews were finished in 2 to 3 months. But I had to wait for my decision. Like more than 5 months.
[i] And what kind of questions did they ask you at the interviews?
[r] All about the way how I had arrived here. And what was my situation. Position there. My life risks. Life threats. I had to prove those all things. Newspapers. And my pictures of activities. Protests. I was in rallies I was participating in. Certificates. Recognition from my organization. BSO and BNM. So this was my first interview. These were the proofs I had to prove.
[i] And was it the reason why it was faster in your opinion?
[r] No. We never know what’s the reason there. I mean it wasn’t that fast also. But yeah. It took me 10 months completely. But I still. Yeah. It was faster I would believe.
[i] And you said you have to live in a refugee center?
[r] Yes. I had to.
[i] For how many months?
[r] This whole time. I was living there. 8 to 10 months. I lived in a refugee center.
[i] And how is the life there in the center for you?
[r] Oh well. Life is not easy. But still it was better what I have already I had experienced on the way. In Balochistan and high down in the mountains. There was shelter. There was food. There was bed to sleep. There was basic facilities. Medical. And it was nice.
[i] And before coming to Belgium did you have some image about Europe? About Belgium?
[r] Yes. I mean I was an educated person. And due to the internet we are connected to the world somehow. So I knew what people. I had the image already. And that’s the same image like people are open-minded here and you have the freedom of expression. You have freedom of speech there. You can live your life freely and safely. So that’s how image was in my head.
[i] So when you arrived here what was your first impression about the country? About everything?
[r] To be honest my thoughts when I arrived here. Well it was like I would say I achieved the target. You can say the milestone I reached there. That was it at that moment. Otherwise I was more focused on the subjective thing instead of the objective. So my case. What I have to do. Where I have to go. So I was in that situation. Well it felt nice to reach safely where I had to reach.
[i] And how many years you are already here in Belgium?
[r] Now, I arrived here in 2017. December. So 2018. Now it’s more than one year. One and a half year.
[i] And did you start your life in Antwerp?
[r] Yes. When I was in the center. So I tried to get scholarship in Antwerp University for the language. Luckily I got that. And I started studying Dutch language in the one year course. And this whole time I was living in Antwerp region. It was not Antwerp city. But yeah it was the region.
[i] In which region did you live?
[r] Kontich
[i] Kontich
[r] Yeah. Lint. The town’s name.
[i] And how was it for you to learn the Dutch language in the University of Antwerp?
[r] It was nice. It was a very nice experience. And there were many people from different countries. And also from many European countries. I got the chance to know people. And the education system was very nice. The way of the one year course they teach. They literally teach you the Dutch in one year. It’s very intense, well. But the academic skills and the way they use their way of teaching. I like it.
[i] And which level did you manage to finish?
[r] I finished two. Level two. Yeah.
[i] And why did you stop?
[r] Then I had to move to Brussels. Because of many reasons. Then it wasn’t easy also from coming to Brussels to university every day. And you can’t afford train, transport every day. And also when I’m living in that region so I had to learn French. To survive there. So that’s why.
[i] And why did you move to Brussels?
[r] Well, for many reasons as I say. Like I’m interested in journalism. And myself as a political person. As I believe as a political activist. And I think there are many international organizations, NGOs, human rights organizations. It’s the center. It’s the capital. Many headquarters of the World Human Rights Organization. They are there. So I will do some activities. I will be able to do some activities and get the opportunity there. That was the reason.
[i] And how long you already live in Brussels?
[r] In Brussels more than two months now. Three months.
[i] Did you already search for some opportunities?
[r] Just right now. Well, I was busy this whole time. All official works, the address change. And I recently also got my recognition as a political refugee. So I have just… After getting this, all this paperwork and official works, I was busy in there. But yes, I’m trying to know people. I’m trying to… I go to some events. But I haven’t found anything concrete, yet.
[i] But what would be your ideal place to work?
[r] Well, in this field, anything. In any human rights organization, any NGOs. That I would prefer.
[i] And would you like still to continue fighting for the Balochistan? For the rights of Balochistan people from here? Yes, I would. Of course. I will continue my struggle. By any means I can. By writing. By other ways. Raising the voice of the people who don’t have a voice. So I would like to continue this.
[i] Would you like maybe to study something?
[r] I would like to study journalism. I’m interested in journalism. So I would like to write about many… issues, unheard issues in the world. Not only in Balochistan. Yes.
[i] Did you already search for the university?
[r] Not yet. As I said, I just got time. Now my search is on. I also have to study… first learn the language. So, French. I’m going for that. For French classes first. Because I cannot… study right now. I’m not in that position also. I can study by myself.
[i] But there are also a lot of opportunities in… in Brussels to study in English.
[r] Yes, there are. I have done some research. So I’m going to try these all options.
[i] And do you still have communication with your friends in Balochistan?
[r] Yes, I do have communication with friends. Or like-minded people. Organization fellows. Political.
[i] Through which means of communication?
[r] Just through internet. Different apps there are. Blackberry, Messenger and WhatsApp.
[i] And with your family?
[r] With family… time to time… I now contact. But not on a regular basis.
[i] But how do you feel? Did it become easier for you to open up? Or to start to communicate with your family, with your friends, since you moved to Europe?
[r] I think, yes. It’s a bit easier. Because I wasn’t also feeling safe there. I could get trapped or traced. And they were also… getting pressurized. They should bring me back. They should make me… stop. Because they were getting threats from the intelligence agencies and from the state. So, when I was there, I was reachable for both sides. Here I am not. So, yes, it is safer.
[i] But how is your… how do your feelings changed about… about yourself? Like, about your situations? Do you feel more that you got the freedom now? That you got what you were looking for? What you were fighting for?
[r] After coming here, you mean?
[i] Yes.
[r] Well, I feel safe here, first of all. I feel safe and I have the freedom of speech here. That’s very important. And I can do any activities, any political activities. I can start an organization, awareness campaigns. I can do a lot of things from here without the fear of getting killed and persecuted. So, yes, it’s a big change.
[i] And do you feel like you want to bring your family also here?
[r] No. Well, I would like to, but they don’t want to come. They want to leave their place, their roots, their ancestors and their land.
[i] So, you are the only really so politically active person in your family?
[r] In my family, yes. On this extreme level. My father is a political… he was in his young age. He is still in politics. But more like in the middle way. They are not on the extreme level of like… What I call extreme is just demanding for your independence, which shouldn’t be called extreme. But for the region there, for them it’s extreme.
[i] And now when you live in Belgium, you got a chance to communicate with Belgian people. And what do you think about the culture here? About the values here? Is it very different from the culture and values of Balochistan, for example?
[r] Well, as I told you, I was busy in this whole procedure and official things. I didn’t get much chance to get to know people personally. And so… I didn’t get that much chance. But yes, I have interacted, communicated with some people. So I cannot say the whole about society right now. It would be early for me to say or reach any conclusion. But yeah, I see a difference. It is different. People here are more busy in their lives. They are in a rush. That is different. And they are so focused in their own life, daily routine, work, and the whole run and rush they are going on. They are, I think, not that connected as compared to Balochistan. People are more connected with the people of town, neighbors, everywhere. Yeah. But I haven’t got… a chance yet to be more in social life or community.
[i] But is it positive for you? Or is it very different for you to see all this rush and to be so focused on your life in comparison with Balochistan?
[r] It’s just different. Of course, lives are different. They are just one person of family works. All others just have their free time. So we do other activities we have to do. We have time. Here people are more busy and focused on many things. They are in many activities. And it’s a nice thing. In some way, I would say. They are taking part in many activities of life. And they are growing in many ways. It won’t be difficult for me. Of course, I’m going to adopt this life.
[i] And can you tell a little bit about the culture of Balochistan people? About the values that you have?
[r] Particularly, I don’t know what your question is, … more precise.
[i] Yeah. Like, for example, here you mentioned the values that are here. Like to be always focused on your life, career. And everything. And what are the values of Balochistan people?
[r] Well, focusing on life is more a general thing. You always… Everywhere people are in their ways. But as I told you, from here even I cannot… I haven’t reached a conclusion yet. I haven’t got the chance to know people more. I will. Of course, now I am getting settled. But yeah, in Balochistan it’s more a tribal society. People are… More close-knit with each other. Like in a town, everyone knows everyone. And they are participating in each other’s… Every situation of lives. Marriages, deaths, and sorrows. And happiness, helping each other. In every situation of life. What else I would say is… People are more patriotic there. Well, because of this situation you can say… For the land and… Political there. More people are like… Interested in politics, you can say. Or the situation of the region has made them… This way. And… It’s… As I said… It has never got the richest region. But never got the chance to get developed. So people have their own lands. Farming. Cattle. Many people still live in mountainous areas. They are nomadic. They move from… Every season they move in another places. That’s all coming in my mind right now.
[i] And… If you think about the values of Baloch people… And values about European… Like let’s say in general European values… What would you like to take for yourself… From Baloch values and from European values… And leave… Keep it for yourself and maybe for your children… And pass it to next generations?
[r] Well… I believe… in modern values. I have always believed in modern values. Because we reach them when we grow in some level. We meet those values. We choose values always. So… There are some in Balochistan like hospitality. In European I would say… Yeah, of course. These are the developed nations. These are the nations who have reached on some level. I would say we are still a bit behind. So… There are many things in modern values here. Like… Growing in different ways. Being human more. Doing something for humanity. Being aware of your surroundings and world. And technology growing further. So there are many, I would say. So I would go more with, of course, modern values. And about children, you asked. I don’t know I am going to have children. I am not sure about that. But if… If ever in my life I had… I will not pass my values to them. I would let them find… their own values. Or at that time. Their modern values. Or what values they choose. Just the basic. You can say I will pass on the core values. Like… Questioning something. Having a critical eye on something. Finding out about the truth. Like basic instincts. Otherwise they will have to choose… their own values. Ok, [name]. Thank you very much for this interview. It was very interesting. I wish you a lot of success with your future. And with your studying. And with your political activities. And everything. It was very nice.
[r] Thank you so much. Thank you. It’s my pleasure to have this opportunity to talk. Thank you.
[i] Thank you.