SU_A_24

[i] Day [name]. I would like to hear your story, who you are, from where you come. It is very honest, your story. Can you introduce yourself, who are you?
[r] I am [name], I am from Syria, from Aleppo City. And, I am now 25 years old, or no, twenty -six years old. I am from Syria. My parents are all here, family now. They come here from a year and a half. I learned to the second secondary school in Syria. And I have also had training for five years. And that was all fun. I would like to stay here to continue studying for a pharmacy assistant. But that also takes a long time, five years or six years. I have already asked, but it takes a long time. That’s why I said, no, I’m going to do something else.
[i] and you come from Syria?
[r] Yes, I am from Syria.
[i] from where do you come in Syria?
[r] from Aleppo City. Yes, that is the Aleppo city. They all know, if you ask Syrians people … Aleppo City, he has more business than Damascus. Damascus is the city of Syria, but Aleppo … So many people, they know about Aleppo, they have a lot of business than other cities. In Syria, a big city.
[i] Can you tell about your youth as a child? What was life in Syria as a child?
[r] That is a nice question. When I was four or five years old … I always stayed with my grandmother and grandfather. They always said, come [name], come and sit with us, sleep. I have all my life with my grandmother and grandfather, more than with my parents. That was from five years to seven years. Because seven years started the first grade. But I used to be with them. And I always do what I want with them. If I ask against my grandfather, I want to do that, I want to do that sandwich, I want that. He makes everything for me. If they want to go to a restaurant, she brings me. I always go to them. If they want to, for example, […], like here Bobbejaanland or something. I always go to them. That was very nice if I was small.
[i] Was you the only child? Or other children?
[r] That was my sister. My sister is big than me, two years. And that comes, we have another, two sisters. But that is the first month that was born and died. I have my sister, but she always lives at home. But my grandmother and grandfather, they have always come to me. Because then I wouldn’t like, then I would always sit quietly. That’s why I said, always come to us. Then I am my mother’s first child. But I have two aunt, but they don’t have a child. They always have such girls. That’s why I am their first son.
[i] First son …
[r] and they love me a lot, always.
[i] What was life in Syria as a child? Going to school, what was that?
[r] I started it with first year. That was difficult, but I always got positive. Always successful for second, third, fourth year. And then, the first secondary was almost good. But I had a little too little for mathematics. And physically a little too little, but the rest was all good. I have seen that friend of my father, he has a pharmacist. He said with my father, can he just come and watch and train with you? He said yes, no problem. That is why I always live with him in the Summer School, myself a job student. I always stayed in the summer for five years. And Wednesday too, when I go free after school, I go to him. I learned a lot. I also want to continue studying, but that is difficult. Because I am married now. I have such a longer study, that is also a bit more difficult. That’s why I went to another job.
[i] So you have, yes, how much, what age did you start with pharmacy assistant?
[r] I think 12 years old, I was. Yes, 12 years.
[i] to how old?
[r] up to 18 years. Or 13 years old, up to 18 years. And then I stopped from there and come here.
[i] can you explain, how is Syria? What does Syria look like?
[r] Syria, Syria is a very beautiful country. Syria We do every week, that’s only Monday. My father has, leave day, my father is a hairdresser he has Monday leave. Yes, and we go to all places of Aleppo. Because Aleppo is very large, we don’t go to all, all sides. But that is where they buy the material for the store. Where he buys, we also do shopping, we do everything. That is very nice, yes. Sometimes he does Sunday and Monday. We go to another city, where the sea is. Yes, we stay there for two days, sometimes three days. It depends on what it’s like. Yes, but Syria is a very beautiful country. We sometimes do it, I have already been with my parents and uncles and aunt. Together we go to another city, to Damascus, to Homs, to Hama. That is every city, it has something special to make. Before Hama, she makes Halawet El Jibn . [sweet cheese rolls] I don’t know what it means in Dutch. But it’s very tasty. We go to another city, to Idlib. We also eat dessert, that is very tasty.
[i] What kind of dessert? I don’t know, okay, in Dutch. But he calls Shabiyat [filo pastry with creamy filling].
[i] in Arabic? Shabiyat, Shabiyat Areeha. If you do on the internet, Shabiyat Areeha, who comes. If you taste it, it will be very tasty. Every time we go to a different city. But it is a very beautiful country. But yes, a pity, a pity that happened. We have nothing to do. But I hope it will be back as it was. I hope so.
[i] and Aleppo itself, how is Aleppo? Where do you live? In the house, in an apartment? How is the street?
[r] Yes, that street was good. That was a bit of busy street. To the city of Salahuddin. That is a bit very busy. And there … You do what you want. Nobody say, you can’t do that, you can do that. If you want to work, for example. So many people work on the street. That is no problem. Nobody says, yes, that is not allowed. Like here. Nobody can do this way. On the street with a small cart, Are there a few things. No, that’s not going here. But that is allowed there. The people are all life. Sometimes people are not rich but they all live. So you do what you want. That doesn’t matter. And… Yes, I live in Salahuddin. There is an apartment. We are three brothers and two sisters. And my parents was … Before we were born, it was very good to live. But my sister is first. And I am second. And it comes third. My brother. But he gave birth, and at home. Not in the hospital. Because that was a little less. He gave birth in the house. In our apartment. And he has … Had a virus. He has … Hepatitis B and C. He got that. And that first hour … They say … that doctor said to my mother … that son died. After an hour he started Vienna. Then they say he will live. Then … started difficulties. And then my father drove to my brother’s hospital. He stayed … he stayed in the hospital more than in our house. That is difficult. And every time my father is a hairdresser … he does … Yes, sometimes not open anymore. He lives in the hospital. Sometimes that store open. He doesn’t work well. And then every time … he sells something in our apartment. A seat, a carpet. And everything sold. To pay for the hospital. And then … He lives one year without a problem. And then … My uncle … He’s been here for twenty years. He was from the past in 2000. That was then. Yes, and … He called with my uncle. He says my son something like that happened. And every time I pay. But he doesn’t get anything. He gets antibiotics. He gets a syringe. But he doesn’t get anything. Always bad words. And a lot of lean. And when you see him … That’s just the legs. Without anything. And my uncle has here … The documents made for him. And my uncle … He is married to Belgian woman. And they made him together. And she comes to Syria. She brings my brother here. He stays here for four years. He has all the documents … Received all medication. And then it starts better. Get better. And then that doctor said … yes, up to here. We can’t do anything for him. He says that doctor … to my uncle … If he gets bigger … That virus … that first virus … B is gone. But virus C stay. He says when he gets bigger … If … Maybe that virus … He’s going to make it for him. Or maybe he will be strong … But until that virus. And… Back to Syria. That was the first year. Very difficult. And he doesn’t speak Arabic. If we want something from him or he wants something … We don’t understand him. That first year of him … He has done twice and to speak about … That was very difficult. Very difficult. Yes, that’s why … That’s why … that was the first year. Then came my second sister. That was good. Third is fine too, my brother. And then … every time we started to grow up My father has a small store. Pretty hard to live We always say ‘Al Hamdoulilaah’ about everything. I was 17 years old When I was 17 years old. But my father said … He asked me … Do you want to go outside? I said no problem. He said, I can work there. I can get more than here. I can do everything I want to do there. I say no problem. I came here. And… I came here with a visa. That friend of my father … He is a big businessman there. He is to Italy. Italy has been … Embassy. And asked: that boy, he works with me. And I want to send to Italy. To get the training. And I got a visa. I went to … I am leaving Aleppo to Damascus. And then from Damascus to Rome. And then from Rome to Napoli. I have there … My uncle has girls here works with him. That girl … She has a sister in Napoli. I went to Napoli there. And … I stayed with her for one day. That was very nice. I have seen Italy. That was very nice. That was her father with her.
[i] also Syrian people?
[r] No, that was Moroccan people.
[i] Moroccan people
[r] yes. He comes her girlfriend and friend so all … We ate together. Sat quietly. Talk, chat. That was very nice there. And then, the second day … Was awake. We ate a breakfast. And then leave. She bought a ticket for me. To come here. Because I had a visa. So I can go for all Europe. I’m coming here. With my uncle. I have three unclear here. Are all alone. Only one, he is married. And he has three children. I stayed with him the first month. Always. He has a large apartment. That is not an apartment, that is a house in Sint-Niklaas. That was very nice, also with him. Then, that visa is ready. I applied for an asylum. I have been in the asylum center for nine months. That was sometimes tough. Sometimes good. Why? Because I am leaving Syria. I always like Syrian food. Syrian cooking. And here … I see that is Belgian cooking. But… Every time I eat something … I say, that’s not good. I don’t like that. I like that. That was nine months. Sometimes my uncle. She comes to my center. She brings something. I say, today is the best day. When they come. That was good. Better than nothing. After nine months … I said my uncle … it’s enough there. You have orange card. You can start with a labor card. You can start work. He had a studio for me. Rented for me. And he came to the studio. The first day. I cleaned, cleaned. And the second day start from work. I have second -hand clothes Worked here in a large warehouse. And… I have already worked there for two years. I always go with my friend. He has a car. That warehouse here is in Zelzate. That is far from Antwerp. Yes, I have … I always go with him, there and back. And… That was too … The first year. That was difficult. I’m always alone. And at home. Normally in Syria when I get back from that training, at ten o’clock tonight. My parents there. My sisters. My all stood there. We are eating together. If we want to go to a place. To our family. We always go together. But here I was alone. That’s my uncle here. I have two or three uncles here. But that’s all busy. I’ve seen it that way. If you don’t work. You get nothing. And you always pay extra. For that tax. But in Syria, if you work. That is no problem. You don’t have to pay anything. If you have bought an apartment. Apartment or house. That is a difference between here and there. That was difficult for the first two years. But then the woman came. From two uncles. From Syria to here. She also came up with a visa. And then … I am free every Sunday. I’m going to visit. They cook. They cook every day. Every day I eat. Sometimes on that side. Sometimes on the other side. I eat different … Now I start the same system as in Syria. And then … I was alone in the studio. But I can’t cook myself. Sometimes … I look at YouTube. What should I do? I just cook … Sometimes tasty, sometimes not. But that goes … I have lived like that for two years. It’s hard, but …
[i] That’s beautiful. I’m going back to your life in Syria for a moment. A few more … Can you still tell … who were your parents? Are you from a large family?
[r] We have a very large family in Syria. Because… She is … five … She was … Five brothers and five sisters. My parents’ family. From my father. And my mother is … Two sisters. From my mother. And two brothers. If something can come there … The first comes sugar festival. And the second is a sacrificial party. If they both come … That’s not just that. So every time, every Monday … my parents … We go to grandma and grandpa for my father. Who all my father’s aunt, they come here. And every Friday we go to grandma and grandpa. My mother’s parents. And as well, they come. We stay until twelve, one hour. We are always … we are going home. Good food, make. Those guys are playing. And that is very good.
[i] How is their house? How is their house in Syria?
[r] That is a good apartment. That was on the ground floor. For my grandmother and grandfather. And that was seven rooms. Yes, and … seven rooms. He has such a L. So that apartment. And that garden too, itself L. Every room, it has door for the garden. Tonight, this afternoon.
[i] is that garden it is in the middle.
[r] Yes. Like this. That means … L. Here is everything … the bedroom. And here is life. Here is the cooking. You can, and then go like this. Yes, so. That was the apartment. And… Such a time … it all slept with my parents. Because it was hot. Doesn’t matter, have come. Are with his children. And the other children too. It’s all a big family. That was a very beautiful life there. I hope so …
[i] Strong bands with the family. Many cousins.
[r] Yes, that’s true. I would like to go back like that. Always when I talk to them. Via WhatsApp or via social media. They say when you come. When we still sit together. When we start talking. When we go to see you. Before we died. They say so. We would like to return to Syria quickly. Not just me. All, all people. I’m coming here. From two years ago. My parents come here. But are, they still have daughters, sisters. All leave. Some people died of that war. And … yes. If … If that party, or without a party, start every week.
[i] Two parties.
[r] parties.
[i] after Ramadan and sacrificial party.
[r] Yes. Sacrifice party. But that is not important for those two parties. The important thing is, every week. Two days we go. One day of that old grandmother and grandfather. And that other day on different. And all of them must come. Must all sit together. Eat together. If she wants to cook, my grandmother. Certainly, she can’t do alone. But they come to help. If she wants to do something. She makes such a big pot for all. He all comes to her. And … sometimes we sit together. Sometimes someone … He makes pretty much funny. Everyone laughs. Sometimes… Sometimes we are dancing. Music on. All dancing.
[i] You have a special tradition for dancing?
[r] Yes. We have a special dance. Syrian dancing. I love … I want to learn too. I’ve already learned. I always watch TV, how they dance. Sometimes if I am here alone. I am already married. And I have a son. Sometimes if I am alone here. I watch TV. And I do what they do myself. That is very nice. I would like to live here, same in Syria. I also want to go back there. Just visit. I can’t live there. Why? Because I leave for … Before I go to military service. I leave here. Now, when I go back to Syria. That will be a big problem. Maybe not anymore … they take me immediately … To … that … police station. Live there. And then next time … immediately until … Nobody knows why. Because I and my cousin … there is a week in between me and him. A week or a month. I’m coming here. And he goes next month, after two months he goes to military service. Now that he has died. Why? Because once he comes, he has leave. A week. And he comes … He can’t go to his parents anymore. Why? Because it is … The other side of … From that … Terrorists.
[i] is that all to …
[r] Yes, it is two sides. That side of …
[i] Assad.
[r] from Assad. And that side of those people are …
[i] against Assad.
[r] Yes, against Assad. And his parents were against Assad. He can no longer … they can’t come here anymore and he can’t go there anymore. He comes to my parents. And then … he stays for a week. And then back to another city. In Syria. And… He tells his friend. He asks how was that leave. He tells everything I have been to my uncle.
[i] Sorry that I … is it military service for Assad or for the other side?
[r] for Assad.
[i] He was in the military service for Assad.
[r] Yes.
[i] and he wanted nothing more than to the other side.
[r] He can no longer go to the other side. Because if he goes there … He will get dead immediately. That’s why he stays here. And… He tells everything to a friend of his. And … he says I have been to my uncle. I stayed there for a week. And now back here. He asks why not … Why not seen to your parents. He says: because they stood a different side. Against that Assad. And he was slept [slept]. And his friend too slept. His friend is awake the second day. But not he. Because someone comes … with guns. So he died. Why? Because his parents are sitting there. Not here. That’s the problem.
[i] Who was he killed by?
[r] I have not heard well about who. But I think … that friend told the responsible person of him.
[i] from Assad or the other?
[r] from Assad too. Why he works here. By Assad. And his parents there. Because they think so. His parents love other people. Against that Assad. And he wants to stay here. He can’t stay here. That’s why he’s dead. Yes … that’s difficult. Every time I remember about him. I say amai … Every time we go to our grandmother and grandfather. Grandparents. He comes too. We play together. Because I and he the same age.
[i] grew up together.
[r] grew up together. And now that he’s gone. And his brother same too. He moved. The war started. After two years he moves to Turkey. And then … Those parents say they say … go to Turkey, there is quiet. Better than here. And then … He also stays in Turkey for two years. And then he says … yes, my parents is here. How am I going to stay there in Turkey alone? Back to Syria in the morning. Regrettably. Now my uncle always as … until now … I have been here in Belgium for seven years. Until now, I don’t talk to my uncle. Why? When I go to talk to him, he will Vienna a lot. Vienna. Why? Because I and the son of his … is always together. When I go to talk to him, he always thinks about his son. Then I don’t talk. I say to my father: Sorry, but I can’t talk. If I go to talk to him, maybe … I don’t know … what am I going to do or what is he going to do. Yes, that is really difficult. I always say to my father when I talk to my uncle Greetings for him. And say, Inshallah … Future in order. That is really difficult.
[i] You left when you were seventeen years old. What year was that?
[r] That was in 2011.
[i] 2011 What was life in Syria? That was before the war.
[r] That was before the war. How was life like? Was there already … Problems?
[r] No, that was no problem. I left. That was all … all life. All are good. Very good healthy. That was … Yes, that was no problem. When I left, I was eighteen years old. And three months. Adult. But if someone wants to move, leave for another country, to train or to live, he must. He takes into account in the bank. He has account. Longer than eight months. And if he leaves, he must The airport must … have to put five thousand dollars on that bag. And… He must have proof why he is going there. If anyone asks. If he doesn’t ask, it doesn’t matter, by … Yes… Was with me … Someone asked me why you are going there. I say, I’m going to do training. He says, you have money. If you want something, or … If you want to buy something there. I say yes. He says, I can see. I showed it. And he says yes, okay. He has set a stamp. And then leaves.
[i] How was it? You are … you were … eighteen years between your departure?
[r] eighteen years and four months.
[i] How was it? Your father has asked you, do you want to go to Belgium? To Europe?
[r] He has already asked. That was a bit of the tough life. By my brother. He has sold everything. And he has … After four years my brother back. But he worked. A bit. I can’t work there anymore. And there I am a minor. And he always has, always working. He really has no leave. And that was hard to live. When I was seventeen years old He asked me. Do you want to go to my uncle? I said, no problem.
[i] You know your uncle well? A lot of contact with your uncle?
[r] Yes, every summer. He comes to Syria for one or two months. And … I know him well. And he knows me well.
[i] How was it? What was it like for you to leave Syria? Was it difficult? Comfortable?
[r] That was difficult. That was difficult. Before I leave, I prayed. To be in order. Very difficult. And I was at airport, I have me Like this… sat on the ground. And I said Dua [supplication] our God To be in order. No problem. And… Yes. I’m coming here. I already said that was … The first three years was difficult. Because we are alone. We are only here. But his wife come here. So it started A little bit fine. Because my parents said, if I want to say something If I want something needed I can’t always go to them. They always visit my house. If I want something, she brings my clothes to me. His wife is my aunt. She applies my clothes. She comes to clean For my studio. But I say, no, that is not necessary. Because I do it myself. I can do anything. They are cooking every day. Syrian cooking. Then sends to me. But I say, that’s not good. Because my parents are there. And I’m here. That’s not good. Before the war, that was difficult to live. After the war, how are you? Heavier than before. I said Move to Turkey. And I helped a little. I sent money to them. To help, his apartment. In 2014 I am leaving for there. To see, that was five years. Four years. I didn’t see him. I applied for a visa and leave for Turkey. I have seen. I’ve been fifteen days. That was really great. After four years …
[i] see parents again. How was the departure? How was saying goodbye to your parents? When you came from Syria to Belgium. How was it?
[r] was very difficult. Before I leave, my father had a very strong hug. And my mother too. She said, I have three tips for you. If you do that, You are always correct. Always pray, No more loose. When I lay When I talk something, always correct. Don’t say anything else. If I do that Then I’m always fine.
[i] What was the third tip?
[r] I forget. I said the second. That third is forgotten. What was that? An asylum center. When someone comes in new, He gets 7 euros a week. And eat and drink and sleep, That is all because of them. And I do 7 euros, plus 7 euros, plus 7 euros. When someone gone, I give him money from that asylum center. If someone goes shopping or something. I give money to him. To bring the cakes for me. And I bring him every week. Every week, I do a part. Five euros for this week And five euros for next week. Yes, so. I bring to him, Yes, you know, you’re not sure Everything okay. You can take good care of. I say yes, no problem. It was all right. Until, from 2 years ago, it was 2016. Or 2017?
[i] 2 years ago, 2016.
[r] They come before I marry, one month. Yes, that was all right. His departure from Syria in 2013. It was war. Are… That is once she was sleeping. And then that flood comes across the apartment. No one has died, but everyone, my father, always healthy, but because of that bomb, He now has blood pressure, He has diabetes, he has. .. I don’t know what he is. He always takes medication. Brothers and sisters, mother, that’s all fine. That’s why I heard so. And I say to them, go to Turkey, And I go a little bit of money, what I have sent to Syria to help. They have the apartment there. I have been there, two weeks. I have been to Turkey And I have seen my wife. Now, I say, yes, that’s. .. that was a very beautiful girl. I want if … my parents have asked for her parents, if we can, So engaged, they are no problem. We have seen there, we have together Walking, with her parents and my parents. That was all nice. And then back here, April 1 was, Or April 2, And … 2014. Yes, I came here, in Belgium. I always kept working And then, she went to Hungary, and After that Hungary, she comes here, always together with her mother, and brother And sister, because my grandmother comes here. She was my grandmother, and my wife, aunt, and my parents, She was all in Turkey. My parents came by boat to Greece, and then She also waited 2 years there, In Greece, and then they came here with a visa. My grandmother, she also comes by boat, to Greece. Then to Greece, to Serbia, Macedonia, Hungary, and then East Turkey, and then here. Germany, to here. But, that heavy wax, Heavy for my grandmother, she paid 20,000 euros. That was someone, Iraqi people, or I don’t know which country, He has had 15,000 euros from them, and he is gone. And then, that is, yes, that is already money gone, and then, they say to her, come by boat to Greece, and then to Greece, we go, step by step with you. And she comes to Germany, and then my uncle, he has been by car, and brings here. And then, too, she has applied for asylum, but she is not going to asylum center. She continues to live with him, Sint-Niklaas. In a minute, and then she has an identity card, she is 70 years old, that is old grandmother, she has received quickly. And now she lives here in Mortsel next to us. Every day we talk to her, when I am free, we go to her, with her, with our grandmother, me and my wife and son, and my aunt too. We are still two aunts here in Mortsel, and my uncle is also going back now in Sint-Niklaas.
[i] Now the situation is good.
[r] The situation is good, but not the same in Syria. If between that sugar festival and sacrificial party, when the whole family comes, we want three months extra to those two parties, to be ready.
[i] visit.
[r] Yes, visits. One day at uncle, second day at other uncle, so. So with uncle and such. But when it is all done, we go to my father’s cousin, my mother’s cousin, so. That’s all, yes.
[i] big parties.
[r] That is very big parties. We stay until New Year. Visits. But here, that’s one day. Visits, all, and the second day back to work. Yes, but that is not really good living, but about that. .. If we want to sit together like that With all the family. But that is good life better than in Syria. That’s extra fun. We do what we want. We have rented a large apartment here. We have cars, we have uncles. Not for me, but it’s for my family. They have everything here. I started here from work. I started from second -hand clothes, two years, and then stopped. I say, yes, I am here for two years, but I don’t know anything about this country. I come from asylum center to the studio in Antwerp, here in Bergen. That was one day. Second day back to work. I leave at seven o’clock, come at seven tonight. Always sleep. They come when I come, they will come to me around eight tonight. So also nine hours, I sleep. Sunday, sometimes also work. I don’t have any more time, because I say, yes, two years. Always there, in that warehouse here, all Arab people work. So I didn’t learn anything. I learned French, but I have all forgotten.
[i] You have learned French? If I have understood correctly, you are from Aleppo to Damaskus, From Damaskus to Rome, from Rome to Napoli.
[r] That is transit was.
[i] transit, yes.
[r] And then, I slept one day there, and then I come here.
[i] Zaventem Brussels? To where did you go, first period? That was from Napoli to Brussels, immediately. Yes, I come here, I’ve been to my uncle To Sint-Niklaas, stayed there for one month. And then that visa is on, I have applied for asylum.
[i] Where?
[r] in Brussels, a commissioner.
[i] How was that?
[r] That was … that was everything new For me, I know my uncle has asked. If you want to get documents here, everything is fine, You have to do that way. Because it goes Good for you for the future. I say no problem. I have applied for asylum That was nine months, I said that, that was difficult. And very heavy, but I tell you, I have nothing to do. That’s how I have to do it. Otherwise, I can’t.
[i] Did you get to know people there?
[r] people, I know a lot of people from all countries, from Somalia, from Afghanistan, from Belgium, from Polish people, from Ukraine, many countries.
[i] Friends? How was life in the asylum center? Did you make friends?
[r] Yes, because 4 people have to sleep per room. We have done two parts. The first parts for the boys, they are not married yet. And the other parts, that’s for people that as married, That is 1 room for the family. If not married, 4 people per room. Some rooms, 8 people, are then part, 4 here, 4 here. That’s hard for sure And we didn’t learn that with our country. But I say I can’t do anything. I have to wait. Always wait until it’s okay. Yes, and then.
[i] Have you learned French there?
[r] I learned French. I have had 2 level, from French. That was with us Very sweet teacher. And I always help with her, When the lesson is ready, we start from 9 am to 12 pm, when the lesson is ready, I keep talking to her, why? I say, I will always stay with her To learn extra from French. To always get practice. And she also says to me, that’s not what I want She also says to me, yes just stay here, We always go, I’m going to teach extra. Because those other people, When the break is, she walks outside quickly. If we are during the lunch break, She also quickly walks to the restaurant to eat. I am always with her She says to me, just stay here. She was very, I don’t know that word What is happy But as not happy, what is that word?
[i] Positive?
[r] Negative. Negative, because I said against her, I’m moving To Antwerp, after nine months. She says: why just stay here, You have learned French, I’m going to look for you, a small studio to live here, I’m going to look for you, A job to work, You can live better here. And I always come to visit you, if you need something, if you can’t do it, I’m going to the town hall with you, I’m going to make everything in order for you. I say yes, but there is my uncle, I have three uncles, I have family there, I’m going to them. She makes, You make it very thank you And he makes this way, but it is better for them. Yes, and then Was it negative, very angry. That is not against me, that is against the fact that I am moving. That was the first three years, Always she sends to me SMS, how is it, and so. That was good, but The third year was less SMS sends to me, why? I didn’t experience Don’t always talk French here. I have no practice Yes, every time you go less, I give fewer answers to her. I always say, yes, yes, I can’t do that, but in Arabic it is meant, but she says, yes, I don’t understand that. I just say what I mean, I worked in a warehouse here for two years, but I don’t have Dutch, if I also talk Dutch, I go to other language, or a year old, but a year old I can just a little, and she didn’t understand that, that was less and less and more.
[i] Was it a Belgian woman?
[r] Yes, that was a Belgian woman, That asylum center was in Liège, in French. Liège in Dutch, I think, yes, that was there. That was the first four months, I didn’t really ask that, that was the first four months, I was on a transit center, After four months, I moved to Liège. The first was in Charleroi, Marilois [?] Was, that’s after Namur. That was when I go there again I stayed on the road for two hours or three hours From there.
[i] OK. What was it like for you to be in Belgium? How was life here? Other than in Syria?
[r] It is not such a big difference, It is a big difference between family, Between food and drink. If we eat and drink something, that’s there, we have more than here, From vegetables, sometimes from vegetables, I don’t see that here. For example jam, That flower jam, That red flower, that is really tasty, next to that cheese and cucumber. In the morning or when you want, if you want to eat once, that’s very tasty, but here, I don’t see that. Is a lot of things, I don’t see here, I see a lot, that’s not really nature, for example watermelon, if I want to eat watermelon now, I see, but that’s not really, that’s all plastic that comes from the freezer. But there, that is, that is not time, if not time of watermelon, it will not come. As a watermelon there is In the summer, it comes a lot, And that is very tasty, so sugar, And very beautiful, that is really very important. That is the big difference between here and Syria. I would like to stay here That is not because, when I return to Syria, that military service will take me. But, I would like to stay here, because here, what should I say now I don’t know, also in Dutch, what I mean, but, nizam [order] here, in Arabic, More than in Syria. All articles here, it has changed completely from Syria. Sometimes here, that makes difficult something, if you started, or busy with documents, documents house, She makes it difficult, Like myself, I have requested nationality, they say, You must bring the birth certificate of your country, You have to bring original passport, You have to, I bring everything, And they say, yes, if you bring it birth certificate, you have to go back to Lebanon Forward, because everything to organize. Put a stamp at the Syrian embassy. I don’t know, another office, that makes it difficult. I say, I’m here, that’s, nationality, passport original, I am here then. They say, yes, that’s not enough. That’s one step To make this difficult. And the rest is all fine. Before I was faithful, that was very clear. Very good life. But after married, That was difficult, because I had a son and, I have to be okay To make him, that is difficult. Because that recognition is too late. We have applied for recognition for, they gave birth, But, three months before. But it comes too late. And then, that identity card, or residence card From him, when we go to doctor and so on, that will be difficult. Yes. That’s the difference, they make it difficult, but, here, those articles are Better in Syria so step by step.
[i] How did the war actually get there? How long were you in Belgium when the war in Syria started? How did you hear it?
[r] I always watch TV here. Because, when I talk to my parents, And I ask, what was like […], how that war now? They don’t talk to me anything. They immediately answer something else. They can’t, when they talk about the war, When people start talking via telephone, that […] Assad, that All military services and so on, They have a computer, and she Can listen to what like bad words, or something. Yes. Therefore, they cannot say anything, via telephone. Yes, it is difficult here Here comes a lot of bombs, that is, since the other … They can’t say anything. Otherwise, I can’t talk to my parents anymore, are all gone. Here, They come here, She tells everything. About food, sugar, Milk, or eggs. If we buy something that is very difficult. If we do something if it stood, Cars, you see four people from a police, And for example my father, he wants to walk, He can’t look at him like that anymore. If he looks at him, will immediately grab. That’s different. Here, if the police are there, you say Good afternoon, giving hand, everything, funny, is no problem. But that is between that war. For that war, that was nothing. If that police are on the street, you say good afternoon, he says good afternoon, then you can continue, that’s no problem. But between that war, that was nothing.
[i] How long were you in Belgium?
[r] that war, end of 2011, and I was here. That is more than 7 months, that war started, or 1 year about, less than 1 year. That started in 2011, end, December.
[i] How was it for you to hear that it is difficult there?
[r] That is difficult, difficult to see. Many people have died. Many people, they come on TV. Started that first war, it will not be on TV. And there, I can, I say to my parents How are you, everything good? They say, all fine, We have a very, very, very beautiful life here. They will no longer say via telephone. TV, it doesn’t matter. The first, yes, first period. But after that, that Great War started, comes up, people Died, it comes via TV. That was difficult. Many people here are nights … What does that call, mudaperaat , how do you say that? I don’t know in Dutch.
[i] demonstrations.
[r] Yes, is that? They make many people here, Why those people died a lot. That was once, one building. That was, all family is here. That is not our family, but others. Other people. And then otherwise all comes of all family died. That’s why those many people, they go to those squares.
[i] square? In Belgium?
[r] Yes, in Belgium. I have already seen via Facebook, I have not been there. But I have already seen That was once, I was Looking at Via Facebook. And I see those people stood what does it call? How do you say that?
[i] demonstrations.
[r] Yes, demonstrations. That was Sint-Jansplein. That is here in Antwerp. Many people come because those people are so deceased from all family. If all deceased, what are you going to do? Or brothers, or sisters, or father, or something. You say, yes, why do I have to live a lot here? I’m going to do something else. Together we are done in no time.
[i] Are you also of demonstrations? Or have you not done that?
[r] No, I have not been. I’m always busy with work. I leave at 7 o’clock in the morning at 7 o’clock tonight. I am very tired. And Second -hand clothes, that is hard work. I have to open 3000 kilos a day. Those big bags and the little one I have to open that little one and then the pants shirts, so. 3000 kilos, 3 tons, that’s heavy.
[i] But did you have contact with Syrian people here? Other Syrian people? No family?
[r] I have my friend, I have my friend, we worked together at the pharmacist, He is whole so, my brother, More than I love him a lot.
[i] He is here too?
[r] No, he is in Syria. But every three weeks, Two weeks, I send a letter to him. I always ask him, how is it, how he does. He also married. I have a wedding party in Syria before I come here. And I have that CD, I bring him to his wedding party. I always see how. And I see my boss in Syria. All girlfriends, I have all the girlfriends. I know a lot of people there, but I leave and I have broken my cell phones. I bought a new cell phone here and I have no numbers of them. That is why I can no longer in contact with them. When I talk to him, I say yes, just greetings, all how he asks about me. And so far I am looking for my boss via social media. I would like to contact him to ask what he is doing. But I haven’t found yet. I’ve heard about my friend, he leaves for to America, because he has A pass America. Nationality American. He and his daughter And son and sister are all … I want to search, But I haven’t found yet. I would like …
[i] contacts again.
[r] Yes, yes. But there is a lot of people, I see I know him very good, and I see via social media, but I see those photos, his family or girlfriend. She takes photos Via Facebook, yes, it is survival. But, she takes photos, But it’s good photos. His wax in costume or something
[i] Positive?
[r] Positive, yes He was here, But now he’s gone.
[i] have you seen that many Syrians have come here? Do you have contact with new Syrians in Belgium?
[r] I have already seen, seen a lot. Three years ago it’s not just a man, A person, but there was a lot of people. But that was a person, I always have him. He has his family, That wife and son and daughter was in Turkey. And he’s working here to go here To bring, but he doesn’t know that. And I say, that was for, I’ve already seen, from my uncle to him, seen, Before I leave for Turkey. I say, I come from Turkey, after two weeks, and I’m going to help with you. Then I was For a year and a half with him to bring all documents. The other people too, I sometimes see many people at the social service, that’s the OCMW. I see many people there, I go to someone, for example with him, or with someone else, to translate. But I see many people, are always not good, they don’t understand what that assistant socially say to him. I say to him, just […], I’m going to translate with him. In the past, last year, I was, I am talking more than now, but I had an accident, I was with my bike, and then quickly comes car car, and I had had three days in a coma, and here that wound comes here, I have forgotten a lot of words. For the accident I was better, from Dutch, better than now.
[i] You followed Dutch lessons here?
[r] Yes, I have Dutch lessons, and I have followed training, from Horeca [catering industry], and I have training from the seller, for example. I learned a lot, Dutch. Now a little less, but that remains, just.
[i] So you are, your first job was in the warehouse, second -hand clothes?
[r] Yes.
[i] Many Arabs too?
[r] Many Syrian people. There are also Moroccan people, but not much. Ten Syrian people, one Moroccan. Ten, for example, twenty Syrian people, an African people.
[i] That is a bit different than […]
[r] Because it’s hard work. People are trying, but they say, no, that’s hard for us, and then leave. But it’s different.
[i] You did that for one year?
[r] two years. I started in February 2012, until December 31, 2013. That is two years.
[i] And what was your next? What did you do about work?
[r] I stopped. I have been to RVA. To request unemployment, but I have fewer hours. They have calculated, I have fewer hours, Then back to the OCMW, that was the first time. Many people ask for me, When they come here, What I did? I went to the OCMW I have, If someone goes new, He gets money for that mobili …
[i] Furniture. But I didn’t do that, why back to work? But many people ask, What did I do? I say nothing, I haven’t had anything from them, Because I came back to work. And then back to the OCMW, but They have very clear to me, faster, Because it was a lot of work, and now it is ready. I just received benefits from them, without anything. That was very clear at the OCMW. I have studied for a while, because I went to the OCMW, but I am not talking anything, no Dutch, none.
[i] You studied Dutch at the time?
[r] Yes, I have Dutch, and I studied, and I followed sales training. I have an internship on Carrefour, Lange Lozanastraat, it’s not that far from here. I followed that internship, it was fine, positive, I obtained a diploma. But that hospitality industry, that was in 2017, started from February to April. And then that Easter holidays, the 15 days. That Easter holidays, I have found work, Middelheim hospital. And then, I called him after that vacation, I said, I can’t go back, because I have A job found Middelheim. That … In 2013 or 2014, I went to the OCMW, I will stay a year or a year and a half At the OCMW, I followed that training, I got that list, and then that, my assistant, socially, she has seen that I started, every time I want to go to her I bring someone to translate. But the last one five months, I always go alone I am better in Dutch And she says, yes, If you are good now You are very good now I’m going to send to other assistant To hear and search. I worked in […], That was Logistics Assistant, at the West Rusthuis, For old people, I do those borrowing, that many clothes. Nurses, she comes to start at seven o’clock, and I will start at eight o’clock. She makes everything clothes, everything clean, and all the elders, van cloths, So all away, and I make new, between eight and nine. I clean everything and at nine to ten o’clock, I bring everything, that blood, To test, I bring down, For that internist. And then, we make If someone’s birthday or someone have a party In this way we make decoration, together with that nurse and nurse, And I am sitting with them talk, we make dancing, That was very nice, that is logistics.
[i] Nice job.
[r] Yes, that’s nice job, that is logistics assistant, That was a year At the OCMW, it mentions Article 60. That is after a year, I back to RVA, to Work ABVV, that is unemployment. I have that first month From unemployment, I have been to all the interims, write my name, and she always sends me to Albert Heijn. I also worked as a seller for a few months. And then … The first year was Sint-Augustinus, then Albert Heijn, but I do together with Albert Heijn, together with …
[i] Middelheim Hospital?
[r] I have already worked.
[i] a yes, it was already ready.
[r] That first with Albert Heijn, a few months, I worked full -time every day. And I have too, then I started hospitality. Catering course I’ve stopped I called Albert Heijn, I’m going to stop, I’m going to do that training. And from February to April, from April, that Middelheim hospital called me, and then assistant social, And they called him, I said to her If you see, good functioning like that. Says to me. She called her, she says: I have very good boy, he always talks Dear boy. And then she called me, That is for part -time. I started from six to ten in the morning, from Hospital Middelheim. And then from noon to eight hours, At Albert Heijn. That was for a while like that. And then I had that accident, And now, I have very …
[i] It was an accident by bike.
[r] Yes, by bike, I have been at home for a long time And then I have Worked as a seller in the Handelstraat, that is besides that Stuivenberg. I have too Seller worked, and That was Promo Market, in the store. […] Shop, And then fainted back on the ground. I was free or I have finished, I think, in the morning, morning. And then afternoon I was free, ready from work, And I fainted. And my boss has seen me He takes me to a hospital He called to ambulance. I went to a hospital. He comes to visit, he says: It’s no problem, everything will be fine, but, The problem is, I forget, Sometimes, when I had that accident, I forget my name. The first week, I don’t know anyone, my wife, my parents.
[i] concussion?
[r] Yes, I don’t know anyone. But my boss has seen that. And he says, yes, everything will be fine. Do it calmly, I stay until Until May. Until May or until June. Yes, and then also unemployment, and then, I return to Albert Heijn, and I say, yes, something happens, I want to work, and he says to me, I now also work via interim, but that is not every day, three or four days a week. Yes. That’s here.
[i] Okay, I’m going back for a moment, for you, your parents have come here too, when did they arrive?
[r] They came in 2017, since May, yes, May 2017.
[i] and have they lived in Turkey for that?
[r] she was in Turkey, yes.
[i] When was that?
[r] 2013, they left for Turkey, and then …
[i] Where in Turkey?
[r] Mersin City. Yes, and Mersin city, That was in 2015, Then they have Been to Greece, with a boat, 2014 to 2017.
[i] Do you have everything heard, have you had contact with your parents during that period?
[r] every day. They have internet there, I call them every day via WhatsApp or Viber. I see them video and …
[i] How was it for you to see them again? You went to Turkey to visit them?
[r] Yes.
[i] What was it like to see them again?
[r] That was the first time, The first day I saw them, that was really … That was really … So very hard. I have seen them I cuddled so strong enough of them. I say, oh, leased so quickly for four years. But, quickly left, but for me that was very slow, because I didn’t see you. But yes, I cuddled for almost a quarter of an hour of them. That was, I am very happy, if someone says, yes, go there to do something, and here is your parents. I say, no, I am going with my parents, because I have not seen four years. That was really … I don’t know how it says in Dutch, but Al Farha Kanat Shedid Ktir [The joy was very intense]. Malakt Adenya, Haseet Haali, I thought about new born. I am a new baby like that Born again.
[i] new born.
[r] Yes, so. That was really …
[i] Only your parents, or also brothers, or sisters?
[r] That was all.
[i] Everyone was there.
[r] My two brothers and two sisters. And my sister -in -law was there. That’s my sister’s best man.
[i] brother -in -law.
[r] Yes, brother -in -law was also there. That was the first time, my sister was married in Syria But was I here, I haven’t seen Who is he, and when I talk to him, every. .. each… Every week, twice. I talk to him But I can’t see videos with him. Just, five minutes or ten minutes, I talk to him, How are you, how are you, that’s all.
[i] not met?
[r] Yes. I went to Turkey I see that brother -in -law. That was the first time.
[i] Did you also get to know your wife there?
[r] and I got to know my wife there. That was two weeks. That was very nice. Seen that vacation and my parents. And I also saw my wife. Say, all three, my parents and my grandmother and my aunt are rooms. My aunt is back to Hungary, and my wife was born in Hungary.
[i] Your wife was born in Hungary?
[r] Yes, born there. They have life within seven years or ten years. My wife is back to Syria, to her parents, are 25 years old in Hungary. Very long. Then back to Syria, they say, We’re going to stay there. After five years, that war started back. That war started. And then they are back to Hungary. My grandmother, She comes here, my parents here, And she goes to Hungary with her parents. In the summer, They visit here. We engaged two years.
[i] engaged for two years, yes.
[r] in the summer, they come, and in the New Year, as on Friday, She comes to visit. That’s time From school holidays. She comes here, because all the brothers and mother and brothers and sisters for my aunt She comes here, She has family. Yes, she is coming. And she comes in April too, and in the summer too. She comes to visit, yes. My that in mersin, That was very engaged. Summer has stopped, and Yes, we have Been to all sides. There was a lot of serious, people. Have moved from Syria to there. They open stores, so restaurants. They have a lot of dessert, that is different dessert. Ice cream, They make themselves, that is very tasty. And those people, they also have dessert, but That is not always dessert, sometimes something. I took it here, I always give her something at home, so presents. Yes, that was very tasty. The one in Turkye, the one in Mersin.
[i] And then, when did your wife come here?
[r] She comes in June, June 15, or 16, so.
[i] last year.
[r] That was last year, yes. She’s coming a week For our wedding party. To make everything right, We are married June 29, last year. And June 29, 2018 She also comes separately. Getting married the same day, separately. Yes, her name is [name].
[i] [name], yes. How was the wedding party? Have you given a big party?
[r] We have, that’s a big party. I have a generous room, in Abdijstraat. I have seen that, we rented it. And it’s two floors. First floor for women and second for men. We did that way. Yes.
[i] also traditional dance done?
[r] a bit. That’s not that much, because …
[i] tradition?
[r] Yes, you have to do it that way. Special people with special clothes come. But here was […] from Syria. Yes, but many people moved to Turkey. If the wedding party, then Turkey something, she goes with clothes and things. But not here, I haven’t seen it yet. I don’t know, maybe … I looked up a little bit But I didn’t see those people. And that’s why, I say, I’m just going to do a party.
[i] OK. Then you are now daddy, birth of son. How old is your son now?
[r] six months. Next week will start six months.
[i] What is it like for you to be dad? I used to be completely free. I am married But completely free. But now I am responsible for him And for her, because She is a new one here. She can’t take anything here. I don’t know much about Belgium either. I used to go to work. Back home. Sunday, I’m going to my aunt, or other aunt or other store. That’s all I do here. But here, now, when I’m free, I have to bring more, Walking to the park, To other places, going on the road. She would like to see her father But she can’t go to Hungary anymore, Because she is not yet in order with her documents. But if she’s okay, She goes first trip to Hungary to see. Mother always comes here, with her sister. But father has a restaurant there. Can’t close and come here. That’s why she haven’t seen him yet. Yes. Now, yes, it has changed completely, life, if someone has children. Now, when I see him, he is just Vienna, if he is sick, or something. If you see your son, or daughter, something like that, then you get a bit difficult. That is difficult. Why? Because she is sick. And I see him. But I can’t do anything. Medication for him, but I can do more than, I can’t do anything for him. That’s the problem. But we will continue. It has changed completely. Some people say yes, As married, That’s not the same If you are free. But that is not the same. As married, and you have children, Then your life has changed completely. That is much better. That’s better. You see from your children, That’s something else If you were a child. How were you with your parents? That is, I see this way. I was very sweet and very big boy and my son like that too. He is very good, he is very quiet.
[i] What do you want for your child, Perhaps for your children in the future? What future do you want for them?
[r] I want for them, that’s not alone For my children, that’s for all children, For the future, beautiful life, better than us. Why? We have seen a lot on our lives. That war, that … Sometimes on your life, A lot of people come, Not sometimes, there come a lot of people, but sometimes people, they don’t get well, they have something else, are dead. But I hope, those children no longer see, for such people. Nice life, beautiful studying, and they have a very high …
[i] Diploma
[r] diploma. I hope so for them, get a very high diploma, and a beautiful life. And no longer see what we have seen.
[i] And what are your dreams for the future, what do you want to achieve?
[r] my dreams is, my dreams is traveling. So I still want for example, I want to travel to … To Australia, for example. I want by plane, by plane, go to Australia, and then Another plane to other countries. Always with plane. I keep my hobbies that, when you start from work, The first, that second question, or third question, Are questions, what is your hobbies? I say, my hobbies is a pilot. They say, oh my, you are very, You are very expensive of hobbies, pilot, because that’s That is very, I think that’s very beautiful.
[i] see the world.
[r] Yes. That’s my hobbies.
[i] Yes. And would you also want to return to Syria?
[r] I want, when I go back I’m just going to visit. But I would like to live here. Because I have seen here That is different world, Between here and Syria, That’s different, A lot of nature here, there is also a lot of nature, but here, what I see, I have seen so when I go back to Syria, just visit. And I would always like to stay here.
[i] You see the future in Belgium.
[r] Yes. For me, for my son, and wife.
[i] Thank you for your time.
[r] You’re welcome.