SU_A_17

[i] Good day [name]!
[r] Good day [name].
[i] I will be interviewing you today for the Red Star Line museum and before I start my questions, could you tell me a little bit about yourself, please? What is your name? Which country are you from?
[r] Yes. My name is [name]. That’s actually an Arabic name. But it’s [name]. My surname is [name]. I’m from Afghanistan. Actually, the south of Afghanistan. I already studied. I got my bachelor’s degree there. English literature. The languages and literature. After my studies…that was in 2015 I left for Belgium.
[i] Can you tell me a little about your family? Do you have any sisters or brothers?
[r] Yes. I have a beautiful sister. She’s the oldest in our family. Two brothers. I’m the middle one. And mum and dad. So we live together. As you know about our culture Afghans usually live together. In English, we call that a ‘joint family’. So my older brother lives here with me. And the rest of my family is there. In my country.
[i] And what kind of child were you? Can you tell us about your childhood?
[r] When I was a child I wasn’t very naughty. I was very calm. But that was… I did a few naughty things. And I was my daddy’s little girl. Why do I say my daddy’s little girl? My dad loves me the most among my family members. I was a little more intelligent than my brothers. And sisters too. So dad loved me the most. And everyone respected me too. Not very naughty… but a few things.
[i] And did you go to school?
[r] Yes. Together with my older brother. And the little one was still very small. My school wasn’t always in the same place. The first school where I started, was in 1996. When we were in Pakistan. And we were refugees there too. The political situation in our country was not good. At that time, the Soviet Union was in Afghanistan. I spent the first years of my schooling in Pakistan. In Peshawar. That’s in the north of Pakistan. And then we went to Islamabad. I studied there for the fourth and fifth years. I still remember a few good things from there. Yes. I still remember some good things from there. We didn’t have schools for boys. So we went to girls’ schools. And also what I find interesting was that I also fell in love with a girl. She was my classmate.
[i] And how old were you?
[r] We were children. Really. Back then I didn’t know why I thought she was so beautiful and interesting. And I always wanted… to talk to her. But when she happened to come over to me I couldn’t talk to her anymore. When I think about those thoughts now I know that I was simply in love with that girl. And what I found interesting about her little face… She was very friendly and calm… But the most beautiful part were her dimples. Do you know what dimples are? When someone smiles… Not everyone. Only a few people have them. When she smiled those dimples immediately in her cheeks. So I thought that was really beautiful. Even now, when I see a girl or a man, it doesn’t matter but with those two dimples… I think that’s beautiful.
[i] And do you remember the period when you went from Afghanistan to Pakistan?
[r] No. Not really. I was born in Pakistan. So I don’t really know how we went from Afghanistan to Pakistan.
[i] And how long did you live in Pakistan?
[r] We were maybe… from 1988 to 2003. So that was almost 15 or 16 years. Yes, we were there in Pakistan.
[i] And then? Did you go back?
[r] Yes, we went back to our country. The US came there. So the situation had improved a little.
[i] And how long did you live there?
[r] From 2003 to 2015 I was back in Afghanistan. In my own country.
[i] And can you tell us a little more about those years, please? What was life like back then?
[r] Yes. Life was really beautiful. The first years when we were children we worked together with my dad. He was alone, so… You know there’s no social system or anything like that there. Like in Europe. So in the morning we went to school. The three brothers. And from afternoon until evening we worked together with my dad. We had a… actually not a shop but a big place where we kept our things from Bekister.
[i] Whose?
[r] Bekister. That’s a Dutch name. “Formwork” I think in English. For example, if you’re making something you use a few… things before you make the ceiling. In English, we call that “a lenter”. If you know what that is. So we had those things. That was a construction company. But yeah. That was a really good life for us. And we earned very well. So when we were a bit older, in my teenage years, we already had a car and our own house. A very good life. Yes. And I already worked at the American Embassy in 2007. at the American embassy. As a trainer. And then back in 2010 as an interpreter for the American army. So those two were the main reasons why I had to go to another country. Or I had to leave my country.
[i] Can you tell me a little more about that?
[r] Yes. That’s a bit of a difficult situation. You know the situation in our country better. People who worked for the government or for the US are the enemies. They are against the Taliban or ISIS. So yes. The first few years were very good. The situation was very good in our city. But in the end from 2013-2014 they gained a lot of control over a few cities in our country. So they caused problems for people who worked for the government or for the US. So that’s why I had to leave my country. That was the hardest decision I ever made.
[i] And can you tell us a little bit about your life at university? Did you study in Pakistan?
[r] No. Not all of my studies were in Pakistan. I was in Pakistan until the 7th year. Then we went back to our country. And we had a very difficult education system. A student has to go to school until the age of 12 . From year 1 to 6 there is primary school. From 6 to 9 there is middle school. And from 10 to 12, there is secondary school. So you have to study until secondary school. Then you have to study for another year. That’s not really studying. But you have to repeat the knowledge you acquired in your previous studies. Practice, basically. And you’re going to take a big exam. We call that a “Concour exam”. And if you pass this exam you go on to study something… engineering, medicine or something like that. Literature. They look at your marks. If you get the highest marks you can study medicine.
[i] And how was it for you?
[r] My exam wasn’t very good. My marks weren’t very good. So that’s why I studied literature.
[i] Didn’t you have time to study?
[r] Yes. During a period of one year I didn’t have time to study. That year I was very busy with my dad. In 2010 or 2009. I was very busy building with my dad. So there was no time to practice anything. That’s probably my… in English we say “bad luck”. Every year we had to take exams after one year. At that moment I thought: “’Ok. I still have six months to study”’. And then the government said that the exam would take place after six months. Oh no! Why is that? So there was no time to study. That’s why I didn’t get good grades. But I’m still happy. I’m very happy that I studied literature.
[i] Why did you choose to study literature?
[r] When you take that exam you get a piece of paper that all the faculties are listed. So the people with the highest marks are the first to choose. For example, there are a maximum of 360 points for this exam. If you get the highest marks for example, for medicine from 300 to 360 points. It’s very difficult to get that many points. Not difficult, but if you study well, it’s no problem. Then you’ll get it anyway. But then you can study medicine. From 280 to 300 points, you can study engineering. From 260 to 280, you can you can study economics. And from 240 to 260, you can study literature, and… ‘Agriculture’. What do you call that in Dutch? And those subjects anyway. So that’s why I chose that. They sent me straight to literature. So that wasn’t really your choice?
[r] Yes, it was. That was my choice. I already chose that. You have five choices. You can choose five subjects. For example: medicine, engineering, economics, literature or something else. And they’ll look at your grades. Which choice is perfect for your grades? So yes.
[i] And how were your university years?
[r] Student life is always great fun. So I studied English literature. So… So English or the languages of other countries are always a bit difficult. But there are also too few people who study other languages in my country. English or Arabic. We have five languages at our university. Arabic, Hindi, English, Pashto and the two official languages of our country. So only for Pashto and English do you have to take another exam. Because everyone wants to two languages. And I took the second exam too. And I got the highest marks. 243 00:14:57,466 Because I had already studied English. And the university years were very chill. What I really liked was that the teachers were very young. And when you have a young professor they’re very curious. They think about new methods to teach. And they also want you to make contact with other countries or with other universities. They give you books or syllabuses that are up to date and modern. But in the other faculties the professors were old. We don’t have a ‘student-wise’ system in our country. That’s a ‘professor-wise’ system. Everything is done by a professor. Students are very lazy, we could say. So we were lucky that we had young professors. And they gave us very up-to-date information. And the lectures and the books. There were five naughty men in our group. Me, and the second is a director of a large course. An English and computer course. So he’s the director. The other person, my classmate is now a director of something in economics. In the Ministry of Economy. The third is a freelancer or a business manager at a car company. And everyone has a good life.
[i] And did you have the opportunity to graduate?
[r] Me? What do you mean?
[i] To get a degree?
[r] Yes, yes, yes. I have a bachelor’s degree. And after my bachelor’s degree I went to several companies to apply for jobs. That was within a year. But then I got into a political problem… So I decided to go to another country.
[i] So was it immediately after university?
[r] No, no. The last year of university. When I was at university… And I’ve said this before. People from ISIS or other people had control over a few cities of our country. So at that time, our city was almost safe. But when I graduated, they gained more control over more cities. So I got a few warnings from them.
[i] How did you get such a warning?
[r] They send you a few papers.
[i] By post or email?
[r] We don’t have post or email. Through their own agents. Yes. They have their own hidden agents. You don’t know him. But he’s in your neighbourhood or in your village. You don’t know him. But he will give this piece of paper to you in the evening at the mosque. Or slip it under your door. Or something like that. So they were in the mosque.
[i] And what did they write?
[r] That I had already worked with the American army. Something like that. And that I am the greatest enemy of Islam. Or something like that. But yeah…
[i] And that’s someone from ISIS?
[r] That person was from the Taliban. ISIS doesn’t have control over us now. They do have control, but that’s just a few cities on the other side of the country.
[i] And when exactly did you decide to leave after this message ?
[r] After this message my dad and the whole family and decided that I can now leave the country.
[i] Was that just for yourself?
[r] That was just for myself. What is ingrained in the culture of my country is that if you are against someone you cannot do or say anything bad against his wife, children and also the elderly. That’s cultural. We have a lot of respect for those three types of people. Children, women and old people. Mum or dad. That’s why. They also received a few warnings. ‘Where is your son? ’Where is he?” ‘If you don’t bring him to us we’ll kill you.’ But they’re just giving warnings. But I hope they won’t say anything to them. But I’m still afraid of them. Of course. They’re my family.
[i] But were they really in danger?
[r] When I call my family, for example, now or later, they’ll tell me anyway. “Okay. We’re safe. That’s no problem if you’re happy there. We’re happy here too.” But still, I don’t think so. They’re not happy. They’re not in a safe situation. I know the situation in our country. But… I hope. That they will come here.
[i] But was the situation always this bad? Can you remember that? Or has it changed now?
[r] I’ve been in Belgium for three years. Actually, I have no idea if that has changed or not. If you look at Facebook, WhatsApp or Twitter you see a few people who have positive ideas and then you automatically become positive. But there are always people who give you examples from their own situation. So that’s terrible.
[i] Do you have a lot of contact with your family?
[r] Yes. Fortunately, I am now. But six or five months ago we didn’t have internet in our village. So I just had to call And that costs too much. So I could only call every two or three days. To my dad, mum, baby, wife or my uncle. But now, luckily, the internet works in my village. And I call every day.
[i] So you’re married?
[r] Yes. Yes.
[i] And how long?
[r] That’s a very good question. In our country, people marry very early. For example, I was 19 years old.
[i] And her?
[r] The same. 18 or so. Not 19. But 18 anyway.
[i] And where did you meet?
[r] She’s my…she’s the daughter of my uncle. So basically my cousin.
[i] Ah, is that normal in Afghanistan?
[r] Yes. That’s normal in our country. Your uncle’s daughter or your aunt’s daughter. Grandma… not grandma, but yes, like that. That’s normal in our country. How long have you been married? Almost eight years. Yes. From 2010 to 2018. That’s 8 or 9 years. And do you have a child?
[r] Yes. We have a child, yes. Very nice.
[i] And is it a girl or a boy?
[r] A boy. Yes.
[i] And how old is he?
[r] Seven years old. Almost eight.
[i] And how long have you not seen your child?
[r] In July and August I went on a trip. And I visited my family. In Pakistan. I invited them. They had to come to Pakistan. And fortunately, I saw everyone there. So I was travelling there. Yes, I hadn’t seen them for almost three years. But luckily, last August and July last August and July.
[i] And do you remember the first day when you came to Belgium? And can you tell us a little about the flight?
[r] Come on. The first day and flight… You know better. When a refugee begins his journey to Europe or the US or another country then it will always be very difficult. So it took me a month to get to Belgium.
[i] What means of transport did you use?
[r] First by plane from Kabul to Tehran. In Iran. And from Iran we sometimes went by car, sometimes on foot. So in different ways. And we had a lot of problems.
[i] For example?
[r] For example, I’ll tell you about the biggest problem. We were walking in the mountains. We had to walk for two days and one night. And where was that? When we were crossing the border between Iran and Turkey. 00:25:46,428 00:25:46,428 And we were in Turkey. On those mountains, I saw a boy. He looked about 16 or 17 years old. And he was dead. And he was lying between the mountains. And everyone was just passing by… And even me. And we just looked: ‘Come on. He’s dead.’ He had dust all over his body. And no one was there to help him. Or to look for something in his wallet to perhaps contact his family.
[i] And did you know the reason? What happened to him?
[r] The reason is simply thirst. If you spend two days and one night on a mountain and then back down and then climb again and back down without a break or even with a break. Every 2 hours you can sit for 10 or 5 minutes. And if you don’t have any water with you… Or you do, but not much. Otherwise you wouldn’t be able to climb for so long. So you had to have a small bottle of water. And that’s not enough. That is for two days and one night. That happened to us too. But luckily we were three best friends together. And my cousin. The other two were my friends. So we were together. What did we decide? Each person should have two bottles of water. In his backpack. And when you’re tired then you have to give your rucksack to me. When I’m tired, I’ll give my rucksack to you. We had to help each other. And that was a very good idea of ours. That’s why we were lucky.
[i] And were you three best friends from the same village?
[r] No, no. My cousin was. That’s my cousin. He already worked in the ANA. The Afghan National Army. And we just saw the third one there. And we became friends. So yeah. So that wasn’t from before. But he’s a good friend now.
[i] And what other difficulties did you encounter during your flight?
[r] Come on. Every situation is difficult. When you cross one country, the second country is always going to be difficult. For example, when you go from Turkey to Bulgaria you have to walk for five days and five nights through the jungle. Climbing and walking. Five days! And you had to carry small bags of beans or something like that to eat. But you couldn’t even eat. You don’t feel like eating anything. Because you’re only thinking about your goal. Your ‘target’. When am I going to get to Bulgaria? So yes. Every situation is difficult.
[i] Can you please tell us a little more about the borders? What were the borders like?
[r] The borders are always difficult. And you always have to hide. So the police or the army of the country can’t see you. So you have to hide. What do you call that? You have to choose the most difficult roads where no one goes… The most difficult paths… So that’s the path you have to take. And you must always remain hidden.
[i] And how did you know which road that was?
[r] We didn’t actually know. We were with a person from this place. So he was our guide. We were allowed to follow him. So we followed that person.
[i] And did you pay him?
[r] Yes, yes. You have to pay.
[i] Each person or in a group?
[r] No. You have to pay in general. For example, I already paid that in my country. And that person is in contact with the other… That’s a big ‘chain’. That’s how you say it in English. So you don’t actually know who that is. But he knows you only by the name of that person. That person from your country. So that was a difficult situation.
[i] So which countries did you have to go through?
[r] So the first country was Iran. Iran, Turkey, Bulgaria, Croatia, Hungary then Austria, then Germany and then Belgium. So there are 9 or 8 countries.
[i] And how long did the trip take?
[r] As I said, one month.
[i] And did you have a chance to sleep?
[r] Yes, yes. In a few countries. For example… Ah sorry, I forgot Serbia too. When we went from Bulgaria to Serbia it was ça va. So we were in a safe place. There were a few buses or trains to Germany that we could easily get on and go to Germany. So that was good. And in Bulgaria there were also small rooms only for two or three people. But there were 20 people in that room. But we could sleep there. A bit difficult, but it was okay. Yes…
[i] And sometimes in hotels too, right?
[r] Never. Come on. I told you we had to hide. If you go to a hotel everyone will see you. Do you understand? So you can never go to a hotel. Well, in Turkey it wasn’t so hidden. But you can’t go with 5 or 6 people together. If you walk around there alone no one will ask you: ‘Who are you?’ ‘Where are you going? ‘What are you doing? Ca va. That’s fine. But if you’re going somewhere with a group then a police officer or someone else might ask you: ‘Give me your ID.’ So I was in Turkey for seven days. We went to Zeitoun Borno Park. We saw some of the most beautiful places in Istanbul. I really like Istanbul.
[i] So you also got a chance to enjoy yourself?
[r] Yes, yes! That was a small part which we enjoyed. That’s true. In Turkey. And then in Bulgaria, never… The hardest country is Bulgaria. I think so.
[i] Why?
[r] If you go from Turkey to Bulgaria you have to walk through the woods for 5 days and 5 nights. No room. No hotel. Nothing. You have to sleep in the forest. And then we had bad luck. It rained every evening. Until morning. What did we do? We tied lots of trees together and we burned them. And we sat together with a few people. Then we could sleep. But I couldn’t sleep. Maybe just me and a few other people. The rest of the people were sleeping. Even when it rained.
[i] And didn’t you have tents?
[r] No tents. No. But we did have large rubbish bags. We bought them in Turkey. Everyone had a large rubbish bag. If you put it on like this it comes up to here. So you’re safe. Come on. Crazy times. Yes. Everyone had it like that.
[i] And when you were in Afghanistan did you already have an idea that you would go to Belgium?
[r] No. I never thought that I would come to Belgium.
[i] And how did you decide that?
[r] Come on. That was the political reason I already mentioned…
[i] No. I mean how did you choose Belgium over other countries?
[r] Ah yes. I have a a few friends and my cousin who have been living in Belgium for 7 or 8 years. So that was the main reason. And besides that, I also checked out a few countries. For example, Germany, Belgium… Brussels is the heart of Europe. Everyone told me that I would get my papers there quickly. And that the people are friendly to refugees and so on. And I thought: ‘Okay. Belgium sounds good.’
[i] And when you were in Afghanistan, what image did you have of Belgium?
[r] Come on. If you live in Afghanistan you’re bound to have a grand idea of Brussels and the Atomium. From France and Paris everyone knows the Eiffel Tower. We read that in our books. We have a very large picture… One day I will go to the Eiffel Tower. One day I’ll go to the Atomium. Yes, we had a big image of these countries. But when I came here it was so normal. So what I thought and I said… That it was good that I was in this country. The thoughts were beautiful. But now that I live here I don’t feel like going to the Atomium. I’ve already been there two or three times. But now I don’t feel like it anymore. It’s not that far from here. It’s almost 30 minutes. From Antwerp. So yes. We have a very broad image of these countries.
[i] Do you remember your first day when you came to Belgium?
[r] Yes. The first day was… It wasn’t that special. It was midnight. when I arrived in Antwerp.
[i] You came first to Antwerp?
[r] Yes. To Antwerp. So Antwerp was the first city in Belgium. And that’s why I’ve been living here until now. I think Antwerp is a very beautiful city. The studies too. And it’s also the city where I’m trying to make my dreams come true. So yeah. And then after one day, that was in the evening when I came here and after one day we went to Park Spoor Noord. and also to the Scheldt. I didn’t know the names. Spoor Noord or Schelde. But I think those two places are very beautiful so far. And I feel like going to those two places every day. Yes. Those were the first places. Did you also visit other countries in Belgium?
[r] Yes. Only the countries that were on our way. As I said: Serbia, Bulgaria. Those countries. Not as special as now. For example, now I’ve already been to the Netherlands. My classmate lives there. To France. So not like these two countries. But only the countries along the way. So never.
[i] And how long have you been living in Belgium?
[r] Almost three years. So yes, three years. Exactly three years.
[i] What have you been doing during these 3 years?
[r] A lot. A whole lot. The first 13-16 months I was in the asylum centre. The first 13 months. And that was in Wallonia. It’s called Tournai. The city is called Tournai. Doornik in Dutch. That’s where I learned French. After the positive decision on my application for asylum I came to Antwerp. So in January 2017 I came to Antwerp. So I have been living in Antwerp for about two years . And I have been working here for one year. At the Arenberg Theatre. And I’ve also learned Dutch. I took a few courses. Up to level 3 at Linguapolis. Now I’ve become a student this year. Master’s student in communication sciences. That’s in English. At the VUB. Communication Sciences. So now I’m already a student.
[i] And do you feel that you are already integrated into Belgian society?
[r] Yes, yes. I feel that I am already integrated.
[i] Why?
[r] The biggest part is my Dutch. I know it well. I understand the people. So yes. I’m already integrated.
[i] And how was it in the beginning? The first few years?
[r] The first year was fine too. Ca va. But when you live in an asylum centre you get into a lot of trouble. Or you feel that way. Yes. That was a very difficult time.
[i] And what problems do you mean?
[r] The problems, for example… a person like me who has had a good life in his country, has obtained a degree. But when you come to an environment where everyone has a negative idea… The people who live in an asylum centre have really negative ideas. ‘When will I get a positive result? When…?’ And I was telling everyone : “Look! You mustn’t think about those papers. You must think about something else. You’re already in Europe. They’ll give you freedom. For example, study. First, what is the most important thing? You have to learn the language. If you live in Wallonia you have to learn French. In Flanders, you have to learn Dutch.“” But there were a few people who were good. But the rest were: ‘No, no. First I have to get papers.’ That wasn’t good. I don’t think it’s very good. The first year was a bit difficult. But it was cool. I’ve made a lot of Belgian friends. And I also found a very friendly teacher. For French. Who came to our asylum centre twice a week. And gave us lessons us. Special French lessons. I’m still in touch with her. Sometimes in French and sometimes in Dutch. She is very friendly. I call her ‘mum.’ And wasn’t it possible to go straight to Antwerp?
[r] No. That wasn’t possible. I tried many times to go to Antwerp or Flanders. I asked: “Look. I want to learn Dutch. I want to live in Flanders. What am I going to do now? If I live here for a year and then there.” But at that time, a lot of refugees were arriving. So they couldn’t arrange that. Or come up with a solution: ‘Okay. Go there.’ There were also a few asylum centres in Flanders. But you couldn’t choose. They said: “If you want to go, just wait for the positive decision. After the positive decision you can go there.” That was mandatory.
[i] And how long did you have to wait?
[r] That was 13-14 months.
[i] And was the decision positive the first time?
[r] Yes. No… At that time… Now there are a few more interviews. But we had two interviews. A short interview of an hour or half an hour. And a long interview of 2 to 5-6 hours. So after the second interview I got a positive decision.
[i] What questions did they ask you?
[r] The same ones you’re asking me now. About my life. What was the problem? How did you get here? What was the biggest problem? And about my family. That was like this interview.
[i] And then you came to Antwerp?
[r] Yes.
[i] Did you start learning Dutch right away?
[r] After three months. Yes. After two months. In February 2017 I started my first Dutch course.
[i] With which organisation?
[r] That was with Encora. A language immersion course. The fastest way. We did 1.1 within a month. Then 1.2. And after 1.2, I wanted to learn academic Dutch. So I asked Atlas: “Look. I’ve already studied. I got a bachelor’s degree. I want to learn a little academic Dutch.” And that’s why I took a few exams at Atlas. And they sent me to Linguapolis where I started at level 2. And I studied there until level 3 .
[i] And how was it for you to learn Dutch?
[r] Dutch wasn’t that difficult but still a little difficult. I find Dutch really difficult. I know six languages.
[i] Which languages do you speak?
[r] Two are official languages of my country. I am fluent in them.
[i] Do you speak two languages in your country?
[r] Yes, yes.
[i] And is that normal?
[r] No. Not really. Why? My mother tongue is Pashto. That’s really difficult. So the people in the north of the country speak “Den”. So for us it’s very easy to learn their language. But for them it’s really difficult to learn our language. So they understand it but they can’t speak it. That’s a big problem. And most people can’t understand it either. But we understand and speak their language. And also Urdu and Hindi. Hindi and Urdu are the same when spoken. But the written language is different. And I don’t know the written language of Hindi. And when I was in Pakistan I learned Urdu. Then English, French and Dutch.
[i] So already 7?
[r] 6.
[i] 7.
[r] Ah yes. With Hindi. Yes. Actually, there’s no big difference between Hindi and Urdu. So only the written language is different. I don’t know that. But I can speak it. That’s the same as Urdu. So if I see someone speaking Hindi then I can easily speak to that person.
[i] So that’s why it was easier for you to learn Dutch?
[r] Yes. It was easy for me. But it affects my English. When I speak English with someone now I use a lot or a few words in Dutch. So that’s why I find this language a bit difficult. That has an effect on your other languages.
[i] And why did you choose to study communication sciences?
[r] My profession is actually communication. Those languages. So I want to study something a little further that has a connection with my background. And communication has this connection with my previous studies.
[i] And what is the plan for your studies? And what will you do after your studies?
[r] Right now I’m studying journalism and media in Europe. Sorry. Yes, sorry. And I have plans to work here in my field. That’s also the advantage of my languages. I’m not sure. But I hope so. That I’ll find a good job. In my field.
[i] As a journalist?
[r] Yes. As a journalist. Or something in communications.
[i] In which language would you like to do that?
[r] Come on. Definitely in Dutch. I live in Flanders. Allez… I live in Flanders. Sorry. Dutch is the most important. But along with Dutch, the other languages are a plus. I find the communication interesting. And I feel good in this area.
[i] And are you planning to bring your family here too?
[r] Yes. I’ve already sent all the paperwork the Belgian embassy. And I hope they will come here soon.
[i] And do they have any idea about your life here in Belgium? I mean, when they come here do they have a plan or what they’re going to do? Are they going to study or work? Or do they not know yet?
[r] My family?
[i] Yes.
[r] Yes. My dad always forced me to study. And he has big dreams for me. But he’s still my dad. And besides studying I also have to work. When you live here, you have to pay for everything. For your rent, for your clothes, for food. And besides, I don’t know how it is for other people but with us we live, as I said, in ‘joint families’. So I have to support my family financially. I also have to send them some money every month. Because the situation there is not so good at the moment. Not like it used to be. I already told you that. Almost everyone is unemployed.
[i] And your family too?
[r] My dad is old. He can’t work anymore.
[i] How old?
[r] 60 years old. So he can’t work anymore. My little brother is still a student. At university. And we are two brothers. We have to support our family.
[i] And your wife? Doesn’t she work too?
[r] Come on. In our country, it’s a bit difficult. For women to work. And she didn’t study much either. Only until the 9th year. I told her: ‘You should continue studying.’ But she doesn’t want to. I don’t know why. I want her to study something. “Look. You have to study. If you come to Belgium you have to know a little English. Also Dutch. If you know a little English you’ll easily learn Dutch. But if you have no idea you’ll find Dutch a bit difficult.“” But yes. She’s also a bit lazy.
[i] And do you already know when it will be possible to bring your family here?
[r] Come on. I want to go today or tomorrow. But that’s not possible. But I hope soon.
[i] And how long has it been going on?
[r] It’s been a little longer. I don’t know why. Almost 9 months or 10 months ago I sent all the paperwork. And I got the answer after 9 months. And it was negative. And when I ask them: ‘What is the problem?’ In the original marriage certificate the date of our marriage was but the translator made a mistake. He forgot to translate that. Yes. I got a little angry at that person. And then I called him: ‘Look. You have to look carefully.’ And he said, ‘You have to look too. If you do something.’ So it went wrong. Now, two weeks ago I was sitting with my solicitor. And he said, ‘It’s very good that the date is in the original.’ So we’re going to translate it again. So I’ve already translated it again and given it back to my lawyer. So hopefully.
[i] And how much do you have to pay for these papers?
[r] That depends. So you have to pay a lawyer in advance. That’s 600 euros. So that’s the initial payment. There may be additional costs. We can’t say. That’s 150 euros per hour. I already paid 120 for the translation. But they said it wasn’t a good translation. They’re going to recommend another translator or an interpreter. So I have to pay for the second time.
[i] How much have you paid in total?
[r] I paid a lot. For my dad and mum and their papers I already paid 700 euros extra. When they were in Pakistan. And for the rest… how do you call that? In English, it’s “’miscellaneous”’. Small things. If you add them all up it comes to 2000 or 3000 euros.
[i] Are your brothers coming too?
[r] No. He’s not young. I’m going to try to do something for him to come here. Yes.
[i] Is it possible?
[r] Yes. A little difficult but possible.
[i] And what’s your plan? To bring everyone here?
[r] Come on. Definitely. And our family isn’t that big. Two brothers. One sister. And mum and dad. So it’s not such a big family. Like a real Afghan family.
[i] Is it just part of Afghan culture to be together with everyone?
[r] Yes. Uncle, dad, mum, everyone! Such a big family. So my dad is the oldest of our family members. Among the uncles, aunts… So everyone respects my dad. And when my dad says something everyone has to do it. Yes. So he’s the oldest. My uncle, me, everyone has to listen to him. So yes. We still live together.
[i] But when they come here do you all live together in the same building?
[r] Yes, yes, yes. That’s why I’m trying to bring them here. I’m rushing to bring them here.
[i] Do you already have a plan for your future here in Belgium?
[r] Come on. Why not? I feel at home in Belgium. How do you say that in Dutch? I’m not sure if my country is going to be okay. If everything works out, I want to go back there. But… No one knows. Whether it will be okay. We can only hope.
[i] Are you aware of what’s happening in Afghanistan right now?
[r] Yes, yes. I’m also writing a few sentences on my Facebook page. So yes… So if we look now at how the situation is it’s a bit difficult to know. But the President who is now in power is very cool. Very good. And I hope that… in six months there will be elections. The elections. So I hope he becomes president again. And for the second time, he’ll do so many good things that we can expect from him .
[i] What specifically do you think will change?
[r] The biggest thing is… We have a lot of water. Rivers. But we can’t control it. The water goes to Pakistan and Iran. That was their advantage. They never paid us. Now we have the water under control. And yesterday we got some very good news. Pakistan says, ‘We will pay now.’ If we get money for our water then Pakistan and Iran will have to pay us 15 billion dollars every year. These two countries. And our country’s budget is 10 billion dollars a year. So that’s how we’re going to save 30 billion. So that’s just for water. We have a lot of mines. In Dutch it’s also mines. Afghanistan is a large country. We also have many precious metals. We have diamonds, rubies and many other precious metals.
[i] And do you know what the biggest problem is with the situation in Afghanistan?
[r] The biggest problem is… lack of education. That’s the biggest problem. For example, what is my idea? If I could recommend something to the president of my country or someone in power I could recommend I would definitely say that he must first educate every person . He must give a book to people. If a person has a good education he or she will not want to fight. So that is the biggest problem. So almost 70% or 90% of the population in my country has no education. So they don’t know who their friends are and who their enemies are. And who should I be friends with? For example, if someone from another country gives them money and tells them to destroy the bridge. Or that they should make a bomb or that they should shoot someone . That’s the biggest problem. But if he or she uses their head ‘Why do I have to shoot that person?’ He’s also an Afghan. He’s my countryman. But that’s the big problem. First, we have to spend almost half of our budget on the education system . We have to improve it. So I can only recommend that.
[i] And why do you think that’s not happening now?
[r] That’s not happening because of… corruption. Corruption is rampant in my country. So that’s why I hope that this president is very good. And he has done a few things very well in a few ministries a few things very well. He has appointed very good people as ministers and administrators. So we are hopeful. That everything will be alright.
[i] Is there anything you really miss in your country? When you’re here in Belgium.
[r] Yes. Definitely the climate…
[i] What is the climate like?
[r] The climate is…
[i] Yes. I mean what kind of climate is there in Afghanistan?
[r] Everything. For example, if you live here in Belgium you only see the sun for two or three months of the year. But in my country we see the sun every day. In summer or in winter. It doesn’t matter. From 5 or 6 in the morning until 4 or 6 in the evening. During these hours, you’re bound to see the sun. You get a lot of energy from vitamin D. You’re “energetic”. We can say that in English. And here you feel a bit dull. No energy. It’s always so dark. So yeah. I miss that.
[i] And something that’s in Belgium and what you can’t find in Afghanistan ? Something special that you like in Belgium?
[r] Yes. The way people meet each other. The way people react to situations. For example, if someone in Afghanistan pushes you on the street no one will say sorry or please to you. They’ll give you an angry look. But here, even if it’s your fault the other person will say sorry or please to you. For example.
[i] And can you please tell me what you think the impact of the flight has had on your life? What has changed in your character?
[r] There are many changes in my life. And the biggest one is that I have become very positive. Yes. I am very far from my family. There are things that are very difficult. But when I was in my country… There, you feel very scared all the time. Every day you get a warning or something like that. You can’t concentrate on your job. Or on things you want to do yourself. But here I’ve become very positive. And what I really like is that everyone supports each other. For example, the government and the people. When I say to my colleague: ‘Okay. I might want to start my own business.’ ‘Oh, that’s a great idea! You should go for it!’ That’s something you can count on. On your colleagues. To talk to them. And that motivates me. But if you ask someone else the same thing: ‘Look. I want to do that…’ ‘Ah, okay. That’s a good idea, but…’ But! But is always the biggest problem. 1170 01:08:01,250 ‘But you’re going to make that less… you’re going to do this and that…’ That’s the problem. That’s why I say that I’ve become very positive here.
[i] But why do they think everything is so difficult?
[r] The biggest problem as I’ve already said is a lack of education. Most people have not received an education. They don’t think broadly. They think immediately. So they have no idea how to live. And what they should do. And so they also don’t know how to respond to a difficult situation. So they don’t really know. There are a few people who are very positive. Even my friends. And I love them. I’ve had a lot of contact with them so far. They are also positive. But most people are not like my friends. And I’m among the negative people. And yes, something else special. I am the only person in my entire family who has a bachelor’s degree. I’m the only person. And the second is my little brother. So now you can get an idea about the mentality of my family. You know? If I’m the only person, how much trouble did I get into during my school years? Even my dad has also thought a few times when I was having a hard time at work or something: ‘I might not let [name] go to school anymore.’ Maybe he thought the same thing. But how did I turn that into something positive? With my teacher. My teachers always motivated me. And they invited my dad and mum to school. ‘Look. Your son is very smart. You shouldn’t let him work. He should study!’ And my dad became so motivated. “Okay. [name] is my son. Not the teacher’s. But he’s very kind. And he loves my son. Because of his intelligence. Why shouldn’t I let him study?” That was a turning point in my life. That’s why I studied in my country. And then my little brother. I always motivate my dad: “Look, Dad. Let him study. I’m going to help you in your construction company. I’ll do everything. But let my brother study. That’s why he studied too. So yes.
[i] And is there a difference between the mentalities of Belgian and Afghan people?
[r] A very big difference.
[i] What is the biggest difference?
[r] The big difference is the positivity. I also gave you an example. If you ask a question to your colleague: ‘I might study something.’ He or she will motivate you. For example, if I now ask my colleague or someone else a question: ‘Look. I want to continue studying.’ ‘Ah [name]. Go study! That’s a good idea!’ They’re going to motivate me. But if you ask the same question in my country, everyone will say: ‘Yes, but…’ But that’s the big problem. But you’re going to waste your time. You won’t get results and so on… Just that negative mentality. 1250 01:12:29,619 There are a few positive people. 1251 01:12:32,194 But there aren’t enough of them. So that’s a big difference. Positive and negative thinking.
[i] And I asked you to bring a special object with you. Can you tell us a little about it?
[r] Mmm, special… Come on. Every object is special in my life. But right now… I think my mobile phone is a special object which I use to contact my and hear them… So that’s a special object for me. Yes.
[i] Okay. Thank you very much [name] for the interview. It was very interesting. And good luck with your studies. And with your future in Belgium. And hopefully you can bring your family here too.
[r] Thank you, thank you.
[i] Thank you very much.
[r] Thank you.