SU_A_12

[r] Hello, my name is [name], I am Venezuelan, born in Ecuador. I have three brothers, two of whom two have already left Venezuela. One is in Paraguay with his whole family and the other is in Ecuador with his family. And my parents, who are also Ecuadorian, lived in Venezuela for many years. They made their life in Venezuela and now they’ve had to return to Ecuador. I made my life in Venezuela, really. I got married. I have three children. Venezuelans.
[i] What did you do in Venezuela before you left?
[r] Well, I’m a director, I was the director of a preschool in Puerto Ordaz, Olívar State. I had my preschool for over twenty years. I have a degree in psycho-pedagogy with two specialisations. Learning disabilities and difficulties. And in addition to that, I have a graduate in early childhood education.
[i] So, you worked as the director of…
[r] a children’s education centre.
[i] And, let’s say, until when? Until when did your life go on normally? And at what point did you feel that there was a political problem in the country? Or something that started to make you and your family uncomfortable? Was there something that marked a turning point in your life?
[r] Well, yes. Our life, to be honest, was pretty normal. You could say that. It was a family life, totally. Where every weekend we would get together at one of my brothers’ houses, my parents’ house or mine. one of my brothers’ houses, my parents’ house or mine. That was a regular thing, every weekend. We would barbecue and eat typical Ecuadorian, Colombian and Venezuelan food. It was always like that. It was very family-oriented. We shared all the activities of our nieces and nephews, our children. We all participated. But there was a moment when everything started to change. They started to protest against the government. They no longer agreed with everything that was happening in the country. At that time, Chávez was in power. When Chávez came to power. I remember the oil strike. When we wanted to remove the president because we didn’t agree with his government measures. And the country came to a standstill. There was no petrol. We practically came to a standstill. Everything stopped. All the companies.
[i] What year was that?
[r] What year? 2000. ¿2002? Yes.
[i] Did civil society decide to stop?
[r] Yes. There was a big strike. But he left his post. He left. They managed to get him out of his post. They took him to La Urchila. The island of La Urchila. The island of La Urchila. And the next day. When, after we were all celebrating that we were finally going to have elections again. That things were going back to the way we were used to. A life, you could say say, normal, peaceful. Where you went to the supermarket and got everything. Pharmacy, food, hospitals, everything. The next day we woke up to the news. Chávez back in power. So, well. But that was one of the first big steps taken to try to get Chávez out of power. From then on, there was, I mean, there were marches all the time. Civil society shut down the streets to protest. It was a civic protest. It was not violent. They had placards. They were with shouting. We shouted. We sang. For Chávez to come.
[i] And what were the measures taken by the Chávez government that were most criticised by the population?
[r] Well, I remember one that was… I’m referring to education. He wanted to change… Well, in fact, he changed Venezuelan education a lot. And then the slogan came out, don’t mess with my children. OK? This… Because he sought, well, and succeeded, to change even the school textbooks. School textbooks no longer tell you the story as it is. They tell you what they want you to know. They don’t let you use any book you want anymore. In schools. You have to use the books that the government has allowed to be published. They are books made by themselves. Santillana and other publishers are out. You can’t use them. Back then, there was a lot of indoctrination. They want to indoctrinate their people. This one was… Even for preschool. Preschoolers had to form a Bolivarian movement. They had to wear red berets. And we had to present them at a military-style ceremony. Five-year-old children I’m talking about. Because mine were in preschool. We had to choose a president from that group of children. To me, it was meaningless. That’s the truth. Nonsense. I tried. While I was there. Not to bring, honestly, Chavista doctrine into my preschool. In fact, all my representatives agreed. Because we all knew what was going on.
[i] What representatives?
[r] Parents.
[i] Ah, right.
[r] Parents. The parents and representatives. Parents and children agreed. That they didn’t… That wasn’t instilled in us. Even though the Ministry of Education required us as an institution to do so. We had to set up these groups. We had to take minutes. Who the child was. I mean… It was a whole process. However, in my preschool, everything was paper-based. I mean… But never… Yes, I had the berets made. The berets must be at the preschool. Um… Because we were being supervised. The Ministry of Education. Um… They sent a supervisor to make sure everything was the way they said it had to be. So, at least that was one of the things that… That had a big impact on us. Don’t mess with our children. We told them. In the end… In the end they did it, didn’t they? Because now you see the books, the texts, everything… They did it. There’s no way to oppose what they say. But… But we did go out to protest. And that was one of the things they did. I don’t know what that would be… I mean, I don’t remember what the… The other… This… The other things that caused so much…
[i] But they were protests… Were you allowed to protest?
[r] At that time, yes. Besides, we live in Puerto Baja, Bolívar State. Which is… Far from the capital. Where there was more reprisals was in the capital. We were still kind of light. Like… OK. You guys are far away. And in fact, we didn’t see everything as intensely as it was being experienced in the capital. For us, it was milder. But… That’s how it was.
[i] And… OK. Then there was a period of protests. And… Did those protests continue?
[r] Yes, that continued during… The entire Chávez period. Then Maduro came along. I mean… Yes. But there was a moment when those protests… This… I imagine that the government began to smell something. I don’t know… And they started to… Massacre us. Because what they did was massacre the people. For protesting. I mean… Just for protesting. Yeah… Going out to protest… In Venezuela… Saying what’s happening is a crime. I mean… If you go into a supermarket… And you’re going to see that there’s nothing… There’s nothing on the shelves because there’s no food. If you take a photo… You could go to prison. If you put it on Twitter… You write the supermarket… Santo Tomé de los Olivos… There’s no food… You can go to prison. Just for posting that kind of news. Facebook, Twitter… That’s already forbidden. I don’t know…
[i] And in Puerto Ordaz… What percentage of the population went out to protest? For example… Was it the majority who disagreed? Or…
[r] At first… At first I would say… The thing is… Puerto Ordaz… As I was saying… It was a town that was… Kind of far from the capital… It was the beginning… It wasn’t the majority… The truth is… This… Well… That’s how I saw it… But as it progressed… All this… And we saw the machinery… Everything that was coming… Moving forward with this government… I’m telling you… I mean… When the protest was… Hands off my children… Practically… The teachers… Parents and representatives… I mean… The schools themselves… We went out onto the street… Then… That’s when we started to see… This… That we didn’t agree… We didn’t want our children… Indoctrinate them… I mean… No… But…
[i] And how did the government respond to that?
[r] Ah… Yeah… The government got tired… And started to… Attack us… They released… The National Guard… That… I don’t know… Why? I don’t know… For national security… I don’t know… But they told us who they were. But he forgot he was… Attacking his people… Because they attacked us… Us… We didn’t have any weapons… We don’t have any weapons… We don’t have guns… Nothing… The most we had were… Carteles… Más nada. That… That was our weapon… A piece of paper… Saying… Demanding freedom of expression… But… Nothing else… And they… Well… I don’t know… The bomb is tear gas, they throw it directly at your body. I know a boy in Puerto Ordaz, where I live. The boy was sitting outside the housing estate where he lives, with two other friends, and the guard came by. There had been protests, but they weren’t even protesting at the time, they were just sitting outside their housing estate. And the National Guard command passed by and shot him, and took the boy’s eye. Why? Why did they do that? We couldn’t find any reason, really. We don’t understand what went through the minds of those people who wear a uniform, and who we thought were going to protect us. And in the end, they were the ones who attacked us. So we have no one to defend us. We have no one to defend us. We’re left with only our cries. Nothing else, you know? Just shouting. Calling for freedom. That’s all we want. Give us back the life we had before. It’s not possible that you watch the news and see lots of children dying in the same hospitals because there is no medicine. Women are giving birth on the floor because there is no medicine, no beds, no doctors.
[i] And what is the reason is this shortage, this shortage of medicines, of products in the supermarket?
[r] Look, it’s because the government doesn’t give you access to these kinds of products.
[i] They control who gets them.
[r] They control everything. They control everything. So now, what they do is there’s a CLAP box, a famous CLAP box, which contains rice, a tin of tuna, which they say isn’t tuna. I don’t know, because I’ve never received that CLAP box. I left before all that. But they give you a little box with three things, four things, and that’s it. And with that they want to silence the people, but… Of course, that box costs money, no, that box isn’t free. You have to buy that box. It’s not like it’s free. So, but they have all the power. They closed the companies. They expropriated them. They went to the companies that were producing and… Expropriate! That’s in the news in Venezuela. When Chávez went to businesses and said, ‘Expropriate!’ That news became so famous. And all those companies that were expropriated are in ruins. I mean, none of them, none of them are producing anything, nothing, nothing, nothing. They went bankrupt. So…
[i] And what was the purpose of bankrupting them? To impoverish the people and take away their resources?
[r] And to have us in their power. To have us in their clutches. Why? What are we going to do?
[i] And how did you meet your basic needs for food and medicine?
[r] Well, look, that was really quite difficult. Because we had to share everything. This… Among all Venezuelans. In fact, we pass on news to each other. A typical WhatsApp message that you’ll see among Venezuelans is… There’s sugar at such-and-such place. There’s milk at such-and-such place. There’s flour. Those are the messages that are normally sent. So… Look, there’s sugar. And someone from the family would run to join a huge queue to get some sugar. The milk is somewhere else. And we went… I mean, it was like looking everywhere for food. And when was there food? Because the truth is that there wasn’t any. So what we were doing was hunting for where it was.
[i] And that… In the places where you got things, were they shops or government offices? How was that food distributed?
[r] At that time they were shops. We normally arrived until… We were in Venezuela until 2014. And they were shops. This… Sometimes you got it from friends. We were there and… We had friends and… Who worked in the big supermarket chains and… Knowing that I had a preschool, because I had a preschool at first. And I fed the children. I gave them breakfast and lunch. So… They, of course… They supported me. Look… Since this is a preschool for children. Until there came a time when I couldn’t take it anymore. And I told the parents. No… I provide childcare services but not meals. Because… I can’t get the food. My husband had to go everywhere. I mean, he had… He left his… Whatever he was doing. Work. Because he had to go get food. Because I had to feed… The preschool kids. Because it was my responsibility at that time. So… I spent all… All day looking for food. The truth is that it was… really difficult. Really difficult.
[i] And was it the same with medicine?
[r] They were worse. The medicines… They were… What? The… I mean… You know… If you can’t get flour… Well, you can substitute it… With rice, for example. But when you can’t get medicine… For… Simple things. Diarrhoea. To stop diarrhoea in a child. You’re getting dehydrated. You can’t get it at any of the pharmacies. You start to panic. You start to… I mean… There’s nothing to do. The truth. It’s… It’s quite… Traumatic. It’s… Frustrating. I didn’t know… How to describe it. Above all… There’s no breast milk. I mean… There is formula milk. There’s no breast milk. There wasn’t any. You saw all those desperate mothers. Because some children are allergic to lactose. How do you do it? No… There wasn’t… The mother didn’t produce milk. It’s not that she didn’t want to give it to them. It’s just that suddenly she wasn’t producing any. And that baby was crying. How do you do it? I mean… So many, so many cases.
[i] And the hospitals were working?
[r] No. No.
[i] No.
[r] How do the hospitals work? This… You can see it on the internet, in the news, women giving birth on the floor. Sometimes outside the hospital, not even inside. Outside. There are no beds. Eh… There’s no medicine. They’re… With bacteria. The… Surgical beds.
[i] Medical instruments.
[r] Instruments. So there’s nothing. It’s completely deteriorated.
[i] Everything’s been abandoned.
[r] Everything, everything, everything. But of course, you can’t go into a hospital and take pictures of that. Or film it. Because you’ll be arrested. And those who have done so are in prison. I mean, everything… If you suddenly see the news about the president of Venezuela, Maduro right now, he’ll suddenly say that the hospitals are wonderful. That everything is excellent. But it’s a lie. It’s a lie. Because people go in with hidden cameras or sometimes the nurses themselves. They come after you and look for you at your house and you go to prison. Because you can’t do that. That happened six months ago. Some nurses are in prison, they were taken away for filming the woman who gave birth on the floor. Because there were no stretchers, there’s nothing.
[i] But the people of the regime, I imagine they do have access to healthcare and everything.
[r] The people in the regime, I mean, the top brass, as we say, they’ll be taken out. They don’t use the hospitals. Not even the missions, there was a health mission, I don’t remember the name. But they had free healthcare for the people. Where, never, because they didn’t go there. You went, by the way, we had a friend who had a car accident. In Umpata. We were at my son’s basketball tournament. And the lady had to slam on the brakes and she slammed on the accelerator. And she flew with a truck over a swimming pool. Well, it was an accident, of course. I was in a village, in a hamlet. And there was what they had put there. Free medical service from the government. Do you know what they gave him? They gave him a pill to kill the fleas. That’s right. When she arrived in Puerto Raja and was able to leave for good, a doctor, I don’t know what. She had problems with her spine. Of course. She flew with the truck over a swimming pool. And when she got there, they didn’t even know how to use the scanner to X-ray her. He didn’t know. The technician who was there, a technician, who was supposed to be there, didn’t even know how to use the machine. That’s how bad it was.
[i] And were these people unqualified? Or were they people who had just left the colleges that they themselves had created?
[r] A bit of everything. So they weren’t prepared. And also these doctors that it produces… Doctors that the government produces in two or three years. And we call them quacks. All they do is give you pills to shut you up. I mean, nothing. There’s no…
[i] I mean, there’s nothing. There’s no substance. There’s nothing valid. Just a name.
[r] Just the name. Advertising. Exactly. And say that there is no food because the opposition does not allow food to circulate. That there are no medicines because the opposition won’t allow… And people with low income don’t believe it. The truth. Why? Because all the news that comes out of Venezuela and all the channels have a doctrine. There’s no longer a channel where you can speak freely. Where they report the real news. There isn’t one. That’s closed. There are no international channels they can watch. Well, that’s… They’re all locked in a dome. And of course what the people see. You see the news there. Everything is wonderful. Everything is excellent. And if something’s missing, it’s someone’s fault. Nothing but the United States. I mean, no. And people from those low-income areas believe it. The truth. They believe it.
[i] And at what point did the situation become more complicated for you?
[r] Look, it became complicated in general for the whole country. Pienso yo. Cuando… Our leader. Because he was our leader. Leopoldo López. This… He turns himself in and they put him in prison. It was like euphoria among the entire Venezuelan people. To take to the streets, to protest. I mean… He was like… The one who was leading us. The one who could get us out of this. A person who was prepared, educated. I mean… And suddenly… They took away our opposition leader. Then the people started to take to the streets. It was… It got violent. The guards got really violent with us. I remember right now… This… Of course, we went out to protest. We never missed a demonstration in Puerto Ordaz. All the ones here. Ahí estábamos. Siempre. This… We were with a group of mums from the… From the other mums of your children, right? The little friends. They called my husband the bodyguard. 00:26:10,745 But he’s tall and big. So we all used to hang around him. Like he was protecting us and stuff. And we were a group. I mean… I can tell you. That was… Imagine. That was our weapon. I mean… Gritar. And this was our bodyguard who was… Always by our side. Right. I remember one day when… And we went. We left in the cars. This was a motorcade. No. Let’s honk our horns. Of course. There were tanks from… The government all over the city. They always brought out the tanks. War tanks. This… Ah. That was the day that… The military. I’m telling you. He took the boy’s eye out. For twisting it. She got furious. I mean… I mean… It’s not… Why? Why are they attacking our children? Our… Our young people. I mean… Why? And what’s more. Not even… That man. That boy. He wasn’t even protesting. He’s just a boy… Calm down. He was outside your organisation. Talking when… Well. We went out to protest. And we went out in a car. Everyone was carrying things. And we… This… We gathered together in an organisation called Los Mangos, in Puerto Blas. Because in front of the Los Mangos Organisation there was… There was an armoured vehicle. The armoured vehicle was parked there. Of course, everyone arrived and we shouted at them… Oh… That it was the government. Go away. They’re murderers. We started shouting. When things were going well. Things get kind of very… very intense, very tense. I don’t like it. I’m a very nervous person and I don’t like violence. I don’t like it. And my husband says, ‘Well, stay in the car.’ So he leaves me parked on the street, inside the van. And he gets out. Twenty steps to here, the armoured car. He yells and I don’t know what with… with the other group of people who were there. And these mums I’m telling you about. But when that part started… When the violence started, I preferred to stay close to them. Because you don’t know how these guards might react. I mean… At a time like that… It scares me. To be honest, it scares me. Well, I stayed in my car, very calm. With the air conditioning on because Puerto Hernández is a hot city. So the car has air conditioning, my windows… And I’m looking back at the tank, how people are shouting, I don’t know what. When suddenly I feel like there are lights in front of me. And I’m calm, alone in the van. I don’t know how to drive, really. I don’t like driving. When I look like this, I have the tank. Another tank. It came straight at me. Thank God. There were so many people that when they saw that armoured vehicle coming. They started… Screaming and I don’t know what. The armoured vehicle stopped in front of the truck. He grabbed a tear gas canister. And he threw it under the car so it would go into the air conditioning. What harm could a woman in a van do to him? I mean, what was I doing wrong? I wasn’t doing anything wrong. I wasn’t even outside shouting. I mean, that’s just mean. Sure, I’ll stay there, of course. I started to get gas. And I, honestly… I… I have a little sister who is dead. And I just asked her to take care of me. Why? Because, of course, I started to smell all those gases. But I knew… And I realised that they were bombing them. I mean, they surrounded us. And the tear gas bombs started falling on those who were outside. And I said… I’m suffocating in the car. But if I get out of this car… How will my husband find me? I know he’ll come for me. Because I’m sure of it. Even if he’s blind, even if he has nothing. He was going to come for me. And I stayed there. And I said, well, here it is. And there I stayed. Sure enough, my husband arrived without seeing anything. He arrived and opened the door. And he said to me, ‘I don’t see anything.’ And I, with what I could, had to tell him… Keep going straight. Come on. To the right. 621 00:30:16,670 I mean, trying to choose. Because he, of course, got more gas than he thought was there. On the bonnet of the car. They threw it at me. And he was thankful that they did that, at least. And it wasn’t like they ran over me with the armoured vehicle. Because they grabbed the tanks and passed us to the cars. They crashed them, they passed them like that. I mean, it was barbaric.
[i] A massacre.
[r] One thing… Why? Why so much anger against the people? The people just want you to defend them. And you attack them. But anyway, that… That reminded me that… That we lived through it. Among other things. Another thing… When the students… Because, of course, everyone was… The whole government. The students were also out. Then… And the schools were forced to open their doors. You couldn’t stop teaching. Even though the city looked like a war zone. Because everything was closed. Even now… Logs… I mean, people were taking things out to block the city. Or to pay for the country. And for this man to finally leave. In other words, we don’t want you. That’s what we wanted to tell you. We don’t want you. Please. So… But people still had to go to work. I was the one who didn’t go. I voted for him. The children had to go to school. And every day the supervisors… They would pass you a letter. And you had to put… This… The attendance. Of teachers. Student attendance. Calculate percentages. Every day. Every day send them there. The child who had so many absences. Unjustified. Or justified. They got to the point where even if they were justified. You failed the year. So… You had to take the kids to school. Even if you had a tank… A war tank at the school gate. That’s what happened. So it was risky. That’s right. We took my son, who looked just like him, and… They, of course, went out to protest. Then my husband… Looking for food. Behind the boy. Behind the boy. Looking after him. I mean… There was no peace. My daughter was at university. At the Catholic university. In Puerto Ordaz. Of course. The guys at university are the ones who… Más protestan. Más… They like it more. I mean… It was hell. I mean… I couldn’t work in peace. I was… Where are you? What are you doing? Where are you? Having to lock the boys in the house. We didn’t want our children… I mean… We took everything away from them. They couldn’t do anything anymore. So…
[i] What did your daughter study?
[r] My daughter… She studied law. She graduated. So… She finished all her… Classes, exams, everything. She graduated. But she couldn’t attend her graduation ceremony. She… I had… A peak in my schedule that took me out of the country. She had always wanted to leave the country. She really wanted to leave to continue her education. But… She wanted to go to her degree… Get her degree. She’s an excellent girl. And… Well… No… She couldn’t make it.
[i] And why couldn’t she go?
[r] Because one of those demonstrations that took place… We had seen that the government was cracking down on the students, of course there were those from the Catholic University, we had taken, well they had taken what we called Altavista, in an area of Puerto Ordaz, so they had taken over the whole street, it was like a camp of young people and you couldn’t drive through there, I mean, what we wanted was to paralyse the country, that’s the truth, we wanted to paralyse it because the man is leaving… and the boys, who are the strength of the country, were doing it, they stopped there, and in the morning, of course, the mayor, who was Chavista, José Ramón López, ordered that all the young people be removed, but that they be removed, I think they were eliminated, right? I think that’s what he said, or that’s what they understood, because that’s what they wanted to do. Friends, call her, look, we need help. The thing is, my husband always supported the kids. boys, always looking after them, not just my children, but all of them, he really cared about all these kids, and she just grabs them and leaves. She leaves early in the car and says, I’m going to pick up my friends, his mates. When she arrives at the Plaza del Hierro, in Puerto Ordaz, there were, of course, the people of this man, and there was the mayor, daring the students, and my daughter, with her mobile phone, arrives to record, which, as I said, was forbidden, because you can’t have any evidence of what they’re doing. When this man realised that my daughter is filming him, that is, that she had filmed something that had happened, he tells his bodyguards to take my daughter’s mobile phone away. When my daughter sees those monsters coming towards her, because if they’re bodyguards, you can imagine what they were like, right? some thugs, as we say, some men, and my daughter sees that, that they’re going after her, and they were coming and… and they attacked her… she grabbed her mobile phone and threw it to her boyfriend, to a friend, right? The friend grabs the phone, and they jump on him, so he grabs the phone, and throws it to a man, I mean, everyone started passing the mobile phone around because the proof was there, on that mobile phone. And, well, of course, the man was beaten up, they took his mobile phone… They beat him up. They beat up my daughter’s friend, they beat up the man and took his mobile phone. My daughter called at that moment, she called her dad. Dad, I’m here. Crying, of course, they had assaulted him and taken his mobile phone. And because of everything that was happening. I mean, the helplessness, you know? The helplessness of what… you can’t can’t even… I mean, nothing, nothing. They wanted to crush us like we were cockroaches. Nothing. Well, actually, this… we know someone very close to this mayor. In fact, my daughter used to drive the mayor’s nephews around. That’s why, because I had a preschool, we knew so many people. We would sit in an area where we knew so many people that my husband surrounded him and said, Look, tell the mayor to please give back the mobile phone to my daughter, the one he assaulted this morning. That’s my daughter. Sure enough, this person called his cousin, who was the mayor, and said, ‘Look, give her back the mobile phone and I don’t know what else.’ He gave the mobile phone back to my daughter, but she was already being threatened. They were going to take away her passport and they already had her in their sights. In other words, they had no options left. She was saved that time. Next time, she wouldn’t have been. So what did we do? Get her out of the country? Actually, that was what we did. Those were very difficult times, when university students were being taken away to prison, where these young people had their lives cut short. I mean, so many of my daughter’s friends are currently in exile in different countries. Some of them couldn’t even finish their studies. I mean… No, it wasn’t the life we really wanted. For the men who were left, our two remaining sons. I didn’t want to see one of my sons in prison. I mean, no… My husband. Because every boy who was arrested or something… People already knew him. people knew him. He’s a lawyer. Look, they caught the boys in the churuata. And my husband was going there to help, I don’t know what. I mean… If we had stayed, well… I know it would have been different. Another one in our lives.
[i] And do you remember the day they had to leave? The day they left.
[r] 11 September 2014.
[i] And how was that day? What happened that day at your house? Do you remember?
[r] No, well… I don’t like goodbyes. So the truth is… I didn’t let anyone go to the airport. I mean, I told my family not to come. We’re a very close family. I mean, on my side, we’re super close. I mean, my brothers love my husband like he’s their brother. I mean, in fact, he’s not my brother-in-law. He’s his brother. That’s his buddy. And they joke around with each other… For whatever. So… And I also get along really well with my sister, with my brothers. I mean, I adore my nephews and nieces. I’m godmother to practically all my nephews and nieces.
[i] Are they still in Venezuela?
[r] I don’t know. I only have my little niece left. With your sister? Yes, because they won’t let her leave the country. The father and the girl. But… Everyone else got out.
[i] And… I don’t know. The day you know you’re leaving… How do you choose what to take from your house?
[r] No, no, no. That’s… That’s really hard, isn’t it?
[i] What did you do? How…?
[r] Nothing. First… I mean, no. By the time it was taken… I mean, things were too… Too intense already. There were even bullet holes in… Near the door of the house. I mean, no. Where we put the boys, well, you know… We talked to the boys and… Because it’s difficult, isn’t it? Telling your teenage children … That they have to leave their friends, their world… Their standard of living. Because they had their standard of living, their friends, right? Eh… That’s good. That it was over. Well, we had to leave. We had to leave. For them. We really left for them. Because that’s what mattered to us and our children. And… Well. Really, thank God, we have very mature children. And they said… OK, Mum, let’s go. They didn’t put me… They didn’t complain, nothing. And… No. We don’t even know what to put in our suitcases. That’s the truth. Because all your things are at your house. So what are you going to take with you? Your whole life is there. And you can’t fit your life into two suitcases. So… Really… What we did take with us was our little dog. That’s for sure. We got her papers, passports, everything. Vacunas, todo. Y… That’s what we brought with us. And…
[i] Is there anything you still have? Now from… From… Something material, I mean, eh? From that… From that period of… From your house. You still have it? Or…?
[r] Something like… No… No… I don’t understand you.
[i] I don’t know… A…
[r] For example, well, I… My Christmas decorations. I had some Christmas decorations. In the bathroom. I liked to decorate my house for Christmas. No… My daughter… This… She decided… What colour she wanted Christmas to be that year. I mean… That’s how it was. The truth. So, no. It ended up… Blue. All the blue decorations. I don’t know what. Red. All the decorations… I mean… She was… Like she spoiled her. The… The only girl. Well… She decided. And I was in the bathroom. I was wearing the… The skirt… With Santa. This… I had the… From… In the other bathroom. I mean… I mean… Some really nice things. That I had bought. At a fair. In… I mean… I don’t remember where they bought it. But… At one of those exhibitions. It was something… I mean… I really liked it. A lot. A lot. And… It travelled with me. It was with me. Until… It broke. Because the material. I don’t know what. And… And… When I was going to throw it away. I mean… Still… Like that… It still works. I think it still works. It was bouncing around here. Because I said… No, no, no. I can’t stick myself to things like that. No. It’s not right. Right. It’s just material. It’s over. Ya. Se acabó. But… That’s maybe something material that…
[i] That stayed here.
[r] Yes. That travelled with me. Until it reached its destination. To my son’s medals. To [name]. From [name]. His trophies. I did bring those. And… What are they? From… From… From Basque. He played for the Bolívar State National Team. He played since he was a child. So… He had medals. And the medals… The trophies stayed because they took up too much space. But I did bring the medals with me. I brought a bunch of… Medals. Well, anyway. It was something… That we… Well. It filled me with pride. The truth.
[i] What were you thinking about on your way to the airport?
[r] The truth. Bueno. I was thinking about my family. That was left behind. I mean. That my whole family was still in Venezuela. At that time, they were all still in Venezuela. En 2014. Este… Bueno. Que… I would like… To see them again. That… That… That it would pass quickly. That it would be like one of those walks you take. A tough fortnight. A month. I don’t know. And then you come back. O sea. Que… That it was a dream. Right. We were going on a trip. But we were coming back. At that moment, I thought. That Venezuela still had hope. And that. In a year or two. I was going to return home. And that everything would be. Like it was in the beginning. Before he came. Chávez to power. Really. Eso sentí. No. I didn’t feel like I do now. That I see. There’s no solution. It’s getting worse. Now it is. That’s true. I feel like that. I’m not going back to my house. Quizás. You won’t even get a house. Because you’ll lose everything. You’ll lose everything. They’re expropriating it. You mean. Everything is a problem. Everything is a problem.
[i] And your house. There’s someone from your family there. Todavía. O.
[r] No. Bueno. My whole family. Except for one sister. And my little niece. They left Venezuela.
[i] And she’s from your house.
[r] My house. At first. I left it with a friend. Because you can’t rent it out. Because if you rent it out. You’ll lose it anyway. OK. Si. Porque. The one who’s renting it. Yes. He can. I’m not paying you any more. And they expropriated your house. Because that’s the law there. OK. And you can’t get it back. Because the law will defend him. Of course. Then we won’t rent it out. Simple. I quit. First with a friend. But, this friend, She got a boyfriend. And then. She got out of there. He got a friend. His friend. And he was there in the house. He’s already left the country. He just left. Right now. This December. He left. We put A friend of my sister. Really. I don’t know who is in my house. That was a house. That we designed. He and I. We built. He and I. With a lot of effort. And we’re going. No. I want the flat. Like this. I want the big windows. It was designed. Just the way we wanted it. No.
[i] How many years did you live there?
[r] Five years, the children were still young, I don’t remember much else. We loved her very much. Because. We just bought it. On credit. It was from our work. It was him.
[i] They only got to enjoy her for five years.
[r] Five years. But we made it beautiful. My garden. Thanks to my husband. He likes plants. Es hermosísimo. Hermosísimo. He always had plants. The house was full of plants. And everything. And he bought his lawnmower. He likes to mow his lawn. Then. The truth. That I had. Me. A beautiful garden and the house has a garage from the door to the end, at the back, there was a small house where Natasha lived, which had a room and a kitchen, but she ate in the house, but she preferred, since I’m older and she was older, she said, that’s mine, but our house had this whole hallway there and that’s where the barbecues were on weekends. There wasn’t a weekend without family, without friends, seriously, and it started on Friday. And Venezuelans, what are you going to do? Where are we meeting? Where are you? I’m here. What’s more, they didn’t even invite me, everyone was already at your house, we put on the carioque, with how bad I sing, to tell the truth, and my sister-in-law sings worse than me, I hope she never sees this video, but we started singing. My husband makes some… divine cocktails, which is the only thing I drink, to be honest, and they’re excellent. I mean, we really had such a good time I didn’t think this was going to happen. More about exile? No.
[i] How do you feel when you think back on your life in Venezuela? Well, a lot of feelings, beautiful feelings, the truth, we were very happy and we didn’t know it, right? With sadness for everything that was left behind and that remained because… the truth is, I don’t think I can go back again.
[i] Do you remember what day they arrived in Béjar, what day did you arrive in Belgium?
[r] We arrived in Belgium in February 2017.
[i] In winter.
[r] Yes. I arrived in winter, but well, my daughter already had… everything ready, she had already bought jackets for her dad, she had jackets for me, I mean, she had everything ready, don’t worry about a thing. So, yes, in that sense.
[i] And what were your first impressions when you arrived?
[r] My first impressions, and really until now, because I haven’t changed them, I like this country. I don’t know, maybe it’s because I see… I really see the difference between, of course, the Venezuela that is right now, not the Venezuela of before, the Venezuela that is right now. In this country, I feel safe. In Venezuela, I didn’t go out alone on the street, I mean, I didn’t. My husband took me there and brought me back, or if not, my daughter who drove my car, because that was my car, my husband gave it to me, but I didn’t drive it. So my daughter, anyone, my brothers would take me, because I didn’t go out because of the insecurity. My husband didn’t like him. One day I decided to go out alone. My house is three blocks from the preschool where I work. I left alone because he was late, because, oh, he’s coming, he’s coming, and I, oh, I’m leaving alone. And I was going to be mugged. In those three blocks they were going to mug me. But I realised that the boy was coming with those intentions and jumped on top of a trash can and I always carry it with me, always. I have that anxiety, I go to my house, I take out the keys, I always have the keys ready. I had the keys ready, I put the keys in and went in, but quickly, and the boy came running because I had already closed the door on him. But I was saved from nothing, from nothing, I mean, I was saved from nothing. I mean, back then there was a lot of insecurity, in but here I go out, I go to my classes alone, I’ve gone to the supermarket alone, I mean, things that people suddenly say, but those are normal things. OK. But in my country it’s not normal. Do you understand? Because in my country there is a lot of insecurity. And my husband, my children, always took care of me. I mean, I always went somewhere, I go with you, Mum, because they knew about the insecurity. But here it’s not like that. Here I go alone and I feel calm. Right now in Puerto Rad, specifically, which is the city where I live, the rubbish truck doesn’t come. But it’s not that it doesn’t come. It doesn’t come every week. It doesn’t come every month. It can be two months and the rubbish doesn’t get collected. The streets are full of rubbish and rats. So it smells bad. Everything smells bad. I mean, I feel fine here. I’m not complaining. I’m saying that people say, ah, but what happens once a week? In my country, it doesn’t even happen anymore, folks. The thing is, sometimes you, sometimes I think that people have everything. And they don’t realise what they really have. And they have to complain about something. I don’t. I see it and I… Oh, I like it. I even accept the cold. I’m very sensitive to the cold. But I prefer to be here. I mean, I like being here. I’m not complaining. I like it. And I tell my husband that. I like Belgium. I like the people. I haven’t really had any big problems with people. I love going there. I’m fascinated by it. Yes. It’s a group of people who welcome you. They give you a kind of relief. When you’re in this country, sometimes in an irregular situation, so to speak. Or when you’re seeking asylum. Yes, or I don’t know. And you feel helpless. In that place you find. People who give you a hand. At least. Or they give you… Even if it’s just a little. They put their hand on your shoulder. Hey, that’s nice. It feels good. That’s the truth.
[i] And what are you doing at IVCA?
[r] Ah, at IVCA… Well, this… I started working as a volunteer. At the nursery. The nursery part. The nursery. And this… I’m also taking classes. To work at that nursery. Even though I have experience. But… Well. That’s the rule here. I buy them. And that’s what I do at IVCA. Plus, they invite me to different activities. The other day I was invited to a wedding. I couldn’t go because something came up… Another family commitment. But… Me? No, I don’t like going out alone. I’ve always gone out with my husband. That’s true. I’ve always gone out with my husband. Everywhere. Although this was during… This was at one o’clock. Because he’s working. And… I decided to go. I mean… I decided to go. I mean… Yeah… I’m going to go to that wedding. I mean… I felt comfortable. But anyway. It didn’t work out. But… There are different activities in IVCA. There are… Many activities for women. This… And… Well. A place… Where I feel… Super comfortable.
[i] And… Do you go out… A… Here in Antwerp. To other… Venezolanos. You have Venezuelan friends. Here.
[r] Yes. Yes. Yes. I have Venezuelan friends. Especially… Friends… My daughter’s. Because as a daughter… My daughter came here… Before us. My daughter came straight here… In 2014. This… She has… Time here. And she’s already formed her group. She formed a group… Of Venezuelans… Antwerp. I mean… I don’t remember what it’s called… Flanders. That’s what the group is called. She started a group… On Facebook. On top of that… They gave her administrative control… Of another group… That already existed. So… Well… And she always… Organises… Arepadas… This… So that they can get together… The Venezuelans. There was a vote… Here… In… 2014. An election… That in Venezuela… Yes… It was for… Something like… If we agreed with the constituent assembly… It was. I don’t remember… Why the vote was… In 2014. Those were organised… My daughter… With… With my husband… So… She’s always involved… In that… Also… She was… She was part of… Of… A group of… Venezuelan… That… Help… They send… Help… To Venezuela… They send medicine… Specifically… Medicine… To Venezuela… They… Directly… They already have their… Contacts… With people in Venezuela… And… They send… Medicines…
[i] And… It’s… It’s something they do… Frequently… Or…
[r] Yes… Yes… Yes… Volunteers for Venezuela… Something like that is called… It’s in Fejo… Also… Where is… María Andreina… And even… Cheililú… It’s not difficult for me… But… Yes… Yes… The Venezuelan women… I know… That was the first group of Venezuelans… I met them… It was through my daughter… In fact… I arrived… To be honest… On a Wednesday… A party… With some Venezuelan women… At their… At my daughter’s house… To welcome me… I mean… It was… Automatic… And… Well… Afterwards… I… Little by little… We’ve met… Other Venezuelans… And the group has grown… Incredibly… Venezolanos aquí… En Bélgica…
[i] And more are coming?
[r] Yes…
[i] And do you know… When someone is coming… Or… How they contact… With… How do you get in touch with people who just arrive?
[r] Because… Since we’ve grown so much… Right? So there are always… Venezuelans who are in shelters… Waiting to test positive… Or to be told… That they will be… Assigned social housing… In other words… And then there… They pass around the… The comments… My husband has a WhatsApp group… And then… There… I mean… We’re all connected through the network… OK? So we pass it on… Anyway… The other time there were some guys… A guy… Venezuelan… They were holding him at the airport… I mean… I don’t know what… And then my husband… Through… Through… Through the same WhatsApp… I mean… My husband has… He set up a group… And in that group he puts his phone… And then that boy contacts my husband… And he says… Look… I’m here… I need help… They won’t let me in… Or out… What… What… What do I do… I don’t know what… Then… At that moment, my husband began calling all the Venezuelans… We made a chain… We have a… A… A colleague… Who is at the airport… Who… Knows a lawyer… We have to go… Then someone says… No… I’m here in Brussels… I know the lawyer… No… I… I… I’ll look into it… And that’s how… They fall… Done… They solve it… OK… Done… And that’s how… And that’s how we’re going… Trying to… Help in any way I can… Well… I mean… Whoever asks for information… Like that… That’s how we are… Really… Trying to… All of us… Pretending to be… A… A team of ants… Come on… Come on… Forward everyone… If we can…
[i] And is there a Belgian organisation that has approached you… Or that supports you in any special way… Not one in particular…
[r] Well… That I know of… No… The truth is… I mean… That I know of… No… Just… Among ourselves… We try to… Get by… Of course… Suddenly we meet… Venezuelan women… Married to Belgians… Those are organisations… They are… Belgian people… Who know… What is really happening in Venezuela… Of course… Many… Lived in Venezuela… And… They knew Venezuela… Beautiful that we had… And… Well… That is also the support… Because of course… They have the language… Nothing… One of our biggest barriers… Is the language… So they… With the language… So they go… And help… And that… But organisations… No…
[i] And you… How are you getting on with the language?
[r] What question? Ik spreek niet zo goed Nederlands, I don’t speak Dutch very well, maar ik zal proberen but I’ll try. That’s as far as I got… No… Well… Nothing… I… I… Yes… I’m learning the language… Yes… It’s not easy… 50 years old… And learning… A language… I mean… It’s hard for me… It’s hard for me… Well… I don’t think it’s that hard… Sometimes it’s because of the language… Because my son… Speaks the language… Otherwise… Of course… Our neurons… It’s not as… As the neurons of… A 20-year-old… 25 years old… Up to 30… Right? And at 50… It’s like… More complicated… You see? It’s the one… I think… It’s… Really… The big barrier… Because… Study it… I’m studying it… Grammatically… You make me write… And… Of course… I give it time… To my brain… To organise… The ideas… And the… I’ll write them down… I mean… And I’ll see… But the moment you ask me to speak… That’s another part… Of my brain… And that part of the brain… Is in Spanish… Nothing else… So… Of course… When I want to speak… I can understand… A lot… The moment I want to speak… I cut myself off… Or I mean… No… No… No… The first one sounds like this… It sounds like roast… This… The verb… The other one… Oh… Yes… Yes… But anyway… I… If others can… I can too…
[i] Of course…
[r] That’s right…
[i] And… Apart from the security… There’s something… Special… That you found in Antwerp… Something you really like… A favourite place… A routine… Something in the city… This…
[r] I really like… You know… This… When I can ride my bike… Go on the bike path… And… Pass by… Places… Green… Parks… Me… I live near the park… To the north… And since I pass by there… Through the park… When it’s spring… I mean… I don’t know… I really like… The flowers… How they decorate everything… I mean… That part… I really… I like it a lot… When I can go cycling… Feel… Like the air hits your face… And… See everything so beautiful… Because… It looks so pretty… Everything… And people are happy at that time of year… Everyone is… Like… With a kind of joy… And… Like that… Yes… Yes… I like it… I like it…
[i] And how do you see yourself in a few years?
[r] Well… In a few years… I… I see myself… Like a nursery… In Belgium… Hablando neerlandés… Y… Happy… Happy… With… With my family…
[i] With your grandchildren.
[r] Yes… With my family… Close to me… I mean, like that… That’s how I see myself…
[i] What a pretty old lady.
[r] And my husband in the garden. How happy that is! Honestly, I can imagine him in the garden, his plants, me inside with the heating on. That’s very important. And happy.
[i] How lovely! Thank you very much, [name].
[r] Thank you, [name].