SU_A_07

[i] Welcome.
[r] Thank you.
[i] Can you tell us who you are?
[r] If I were to tell you who I am I am [name] but they call me [name] I am a resident of Belgium and have lived for about more than 10 years, reached 17 years. I came in 2001 and have been living here until now and now is 2018. September. I had come in September 20… and 01 And have been living for about 17 years and now the 17th year is starting, no I think it’s been 18 years, something like that. And. I was born in Somalia in Buloburde district the Hiran region And. most of my time I… my adult time I spent in Belgium.
[i] Where were you born? Uhh and when were you born?
[r] I was born in Buloburde.
[i] Buloburde.
[r] The region..country, Somalia. Somalia’s biggest region
[i] When?
[r] In the Hiran region. In Buloburde district 1981 December 20, I was born. December 20.
[i] Can you tell us more about who your parents were?
[r] My mother and father, May Allah have mercy on my father. My mother is still alive, May Allah bless her with long and healthy life. And mother is called [name] and father [name] and I am [name]. My full name is [name].
[i] Where?
[r] My nickname is [name]. And.
[i] Where and when were your parents born?
[r] And, my parents were born some time ago…but now I don’t remember by heart. I do know but. And but. I am now someone who lives in Belgium.
[i] What is? Wa.. What was your parents’ profession?
[r] My father was a businessman but I was very young when he died, may Allah have mercy on him and my mother was a businesswoman she had a shop in the town where I lived, in Somalia.
[i] Ok, do you have any brothers and sisters?
[r] I have 3 sisters and 3 brothers together we are 4 brothers.
[i] Where do they live?
[r] Each lives in different places. Some live in Somalia and the others live abroad. Some who live in England, one sister and one brother one brother lives in America and the rest in Somalia.
[i] And you live… What?
[r] And me living in Belgium.
[i] What was your family situation like in Somalia? How did you live? you tell us more about that? How did you live?
[r] Walahi. It was just a normal life, even though in the country there was a lot of problems, war and unrest. And because of those circumstances, I also fled from the country. Then I started looking for a peace and better life. Oh ay. I found that peace and better life in Belgium.
[i] What did the house you lived in look like? Can you describe for us?
[r] The house we lived in and the life we had was just normal. The reason for which I fled was the problems and the war in the country. I lived … we lived in an ordinary house, the houses that were built in the city. It was a kind of villa In that villa lived all the relatives. And most of them fled from the country. When you say the whole family, you mean. Mother, father, sisters and brothers.
[i] Brothers, sisters and that was it? Ok. What was your family relationship like? Did you have a strong family bond?
[r] We had a strong bond and loved each other dearly. As a family, we had a lot of contact with each other. Uhum.
[i] Ok. What were your norms and values as a family? What were the customs with you?
[r] Talking about that, one had to treat the other with respect when they saw each other. Speaking and respect was essential. One had to treat the other with respect. Mother and father are not part of that, they were shown respect in a different way. So were my siblings. My friends and the other youngsters we could…our humour was limited but we could go to the youngsters to have fun. Within our family, we were very serious. We only talked to each other about the facts.
[i] Ok, looking back to Somalia now the word tribe is used a lot.
[r] Right.
[i] Which tribe do you belong to?
[r] I belong to one of the tribes of Somalia. They call: ‘Hawadle’ And that’s my tribe. And. Hawadle belong to one of the tribes that exists in Somalia.
[i] Ok, ok, and the tribes in Somalia, are people recognised by that or do you think there is some other attribution? Like people can give you respect for that. I mean do people get recognition because of their tribe. Or do people ask which tribe you belong to. Is that important in society?
[r] The tribe has now become an access to the country, I get that feeling now. That’s because the tribe has spread to society and the way of life. It used to be seen as recognition that you belong to a certain group But now it is seen as recognition and a gateway to opportunities. Even now, us government use tribe as a position. That on the basis of your tribe, you get a certain position and from which others don’t. Only for those who have divided power among themselves. So that divisions…ensure that there is division of power. So that power remains between them. Now that all that…has penetrated further into the government the tribal struggle has put us in a bad place. I hope Allah helps us to have these tribal divisions removed, I would say. May Allah restore our unity again. The unity that was built without tribal divisions. It may be that two brothers belonging to different tribes may then rule twice or similarly. That they can then perform the task through their knowledge or experiences.
[i] So, in the community in Somalia, the tribe is important?
[r] Right now it is.
[i] If someone uses the tribe then that person also gets opportunities?
[r] Right.
[i] That’s how I understood.
[r] ‘I am that tribe’ that is the motive.
[i] Yes, ok. When did it start that people use the term ‘tribe’? Do you remember? Could you talk more about that?
[r] How…, I was young when the Somali government fell right after that the tribal struggle started. Which was based on ‘I who belong to this tribe get power and you who belong to that tribe sneeze’. On that constituency. In the 90s, early 90s when the fall of the Somali government President Mohamed Siad Barre then people started taking advantage of the opportunity.
[i] Okay, before that there was none?
[r] Before that there were tribes but the government did not allow it. Since the fall of the government, people chose to live well through their tribe. That was a conscious choice. I noticed that.
[i] Okay, would you tell us what your childhood was like – and? When you were still in Somalia how was your adolescence?
[r] When I was in Somalia, I was very young. Since my youngest years, I grew up and was born in Buloburde, which is one of the district in Somalia. And that’s also where I was born. But mostly we were stuck in the country and then we had fled when I reached the adult age. Oh. The age of 19 was.
[i] Then you had fled?
[r] Yes, that’s when I fled to Belgium. I was looking for a peace and better life then.
[i] Did you have many friends then in your youth? Who were your friends? Who were they?
[r] The people we lived together in the same town people were going to flee and at the same time other people had also come to flee, when I talk about Buloburde. The people who lived there, some of them their lineage did not belong to the area and the others did. The descendants who belonged to the area stayed with us in the district and the others had fled somewhere. Everyone in the country had fled. Every single person was fleeing.
[i] Ok, you say Buloburde? When you talk about ‘ Buloburde’ where, Somalia is very big where is it actually located? Can you point out where it is?
[r] It is in central Somalia It is in the centre of Somalia. The district is also exactly in the middle of. And it is also … in the middle of.
[i] Which region?
[r] Hiran region. It is in the region of Hiran.
[i] Uhum, where did you go to school and for how long?
[r] My studies were very short. And… in the country I went I learnt, it was often anxious and the never-ending fight and besides, I was also injured by the tragedy and the war. We were very young then and had not even reached the age of adulthood. Very very young. Then it was around 1994 or so. I was shot then and it wasn’t meant for me but it was an accident. Because of that… uhum… because of the war and the tragedy I was wounded.
[i] Okay, and..was the bullet meant for you or…?
[r] It was accidental. The person accidentally pulled the lever of the gun and then I was hit by the bullet.
[i] Ah ok, ok. Did the person walking next to you pull the lever…..
[r] No, it was… there…and here. We were standing about 10 to 20 centimetres away from each other. Then the shot went off at me.
[i] Then you were shot at? It wasn’t his intention to shoot you?
[r] No, no.
[i] Okay, where did it hit you?
[r] It hit my thigh. It went from one leg to the other but the bullet broke off one of my bones.
[i] Then your bone was broken off, ok. Uhum, were you then taken to hospital? How….?
[r] Yes, I was then taken to the hospital. I received medical attention there. When I had come to Belgium, my leg had not recovered properly then I was further treated here, although it is still the injury but it is much better.
[i] Ok, do you suffer much from the injury on a daily basis?
[r] There is an injury but most of it has healed.
[i] How did Belgium manage to treat the injury?
[r] I have had surgery. My health is better now.
[i] Ok. In your leg, do you sometimes feel pain or…?
[r] No, I don’t feel any pain anymore.
[i] You don’t suffer from that anymore, ok? and…Were you brought up religiously?
[r] Yes. How I noticed is that every Somali person is brought up with the Islamic religion. I was also brought up that way and love my religion.
[i] In what way were you brought up? Can you give us more explanation of that?
[r] From childhood, you go to Koranic lessons and you are also taught that you will follow the knowledge of the religion. You are also taught that you are simply going to internalise the knowledge and follow the religion. That you are going to pray and strengthen the bond between you and God. I loved doing that and still love doing it too.
[i] Ok, uh…what is your profession?
[r] My profession at the moment is Somali arts and culture and I really enjoy it. I am also connected to western music I love it and would like to create something with it. Like the English language, I would like to create something with that. But most of the time I am in Somali. Okay. It may be that that will change in the future, but right now I do everything is in the Somali language. And in the language.
[i]Did you like the arts and culture….
[r] I also try to do it in Dutch.
[i] Did you always enjoy doing that? When did this ambition start?
[r] The ambition started when I was in Europe, especially in Belgium I got the aspiration That I get into the arts. I came in 2001 and in 2002 I got the drift that I could participate in art and culture and I could also contribute to this concept and show myself. As I get the impression from the Somali community…um. I have released many songs and at the same time I get the feeling that I have plausibly displayed songs.
[i] Ok, When you were in was Somalia were you active in associations? Political or and other? Which ones?
[r] No, I never participated in political activities. I was also not mature enough to be able to participate in political movements in that country. i was young and was 19 years old when i fled. And… I couldn’t participate in politics. I did not like that to be a member of a political association but… it was not my hobby to participate in association that had political purpose, but I did participate in association that did art and culture. I participated in such association called ‘Tayiba’ which are active in the Netherlands. I participated only once.
[i] Hm… ..the associations can have different objectives like politics or other.
[r] Yes, I have never participated in political activities.
[i] Or other kind of association like…. Can also be founded by young people…
[r] Well to a singing group.
[i] … who come together for activities that concern them and that they share that with society.
[r] No.
[i] You haven’t participated in anything like that?
[r] I have not participated in such activities.
[i] Why did you flee from your country?
[r] Because of problems and. that were present in our country such as killings, theft and such problems, which were present at that time.
[i] What other problems were they?
[r] People started killing directly or indirectly killing both. And … there were many killings before I left exactly in the period of 2000-2001 or in between.
[i] What is the cause of the killing?
[r] Tribal conflicts and the like.
[i] Okay. It wasn’t just about the tribal conflict but were there other reasons too?
[r] Yes, there were other reasons but she mainly used the tribe as an excuse.
[i] Can you give an example of that?
[r] For example, the thieves using the tribe as a cover and the gangs and… the ordinary people your own age and who you saw as friends. Sometimes when there is disagreement between you and. then they choose the tribe than friendship and they stand up for those gangs just the same.
[i] How did you flee?
[r] Each person went to flee in a way that was possible then and I went to do the same. And brothers, sisters and the parents support each other. My parents supported me with fleeing because I was also injured. They told me to go and find peace and better life somewhere else and then I could possibly flee to Belgium. Within a month it was possible to come to Belgium.
[i] Okay, by which route did you flee? You had also said that your parents helped you with that?
[r] Yes, with money they had helped me along but. .. the further process was going to be arranged by the people smuggler.
[i] So people exist ….
[r] Smuggling people.
[i] …who smuggled you?
[r] Right, yes.
[i] Okay, how much do people pay for this?
[r] It was a long time ago and I don’t remember exactly how much it was. About thousands of euros.
[i] Okay, so when the human smuggler smuggles you they bring where?
[r] The one brought me here.
[i] To where?
[r] The country where I am staying now.
[i] The country where you live now. Did that one bring you right here?
[r] Right.
[i] Ok, did you travel alone then?
[r] No, I was together with the people smuggler and we left from…. Somalia, Mogadishu, Nairobi, Uganda, Kampala Kampala to Rwanda Rwanda to Belgium.
[i] How was all this organised? Because.
[r] The people smuggler arranged this.
[i] When…
[r] He had prepared it before. I didn’t know the whole workings of it.
[i] You didn’t know it? So, the passport and the ticket you normally travel with, oh, he had already arranged that for you?
[r] Right yes.
[i] Ok, did you see whose passport it was, were you allowed to hold it?
[r] Sometimes you’re allowed to hold those but usually you’re not allowed to.
[i] You usually don’t see those.
[r] When you take the plane then you were allowed to hold it in your hands.
[i] You used a passport that it belonged to someone else?
[r] Within the African continent, it wasn’t really that difficult only when I was in Kigali, the capital of Rwanda, then I got the passport. Before that, I didn’t see the passport.
[i] Not seen.
[r] Before that I travelled with a Somali passport.
[i] In then you were able to see the person on the passport?
[r] Yes.
[i] Do you remember what that person looked like?
[r] The person?
[i] Did that person look like you?
[r] No, it wasn’t someone I knew and that person didn’t even look like me.
[i] He didn’t even look like you?
[r] No.
[i] Ok, and…..when you arrived at the airport…..
[r] We had the same characteristics as Somalis but nothing else.
[i] Other than that you had nothing in common? When someone wants to travel they usually look at the person on the passport. How did they look? Did they look at your face and then the passport or…?
[r] They did look at the person on the passport but not properly, I think but… the features we had as Somalis was visible but otherwise we didn’t look much alike.
[i] Okay. Were you alone when you fled or were other people fleeing with you?
[r] On the plane…
[i] I meant were you with your parents, brothers or your sisters?
[r] No, I had only fled together with the people smuggler. And the people smuggler. The people smuggler was my go-between. His job was not done until he brought me to Belgium.
[i] Okay, how did you get the information?
[r] You start looking for information and it was found in Mogadishu. That was everything. The details of a man who is a human trafficker. Family members negotiated with him and then he got his money.
[i] And…did you have the opportunity to be able to say goodbye to your family and friends?
[r] Right, I was able to say goodbye and planned to.
[i] You were able to say goodbye and actually did?
[r] Yes.
[i] You said you were leaving and were able to prepare properly?
[r] Right.
[i] What did you take with you when you fled? I assume you took a suitcase with you?
[r] Yes.
[i] What was all in the suitcase?
[r] And..walahi and…my clothes and, I hadn’t brought much. I had Somali passport with me and the Belgian passport I came here with.
[i] The passport you travelled with was a Belgian passport?
[r] The man had the Belgian passport with him. I went as far as Rwanda. .. He had the one with after Rwanda I had it with.
[i] What was the original plan? Where did you initially want to go?
[r] I wanted to go to Belgium and I came to Belgium, this is … It worked out to where I wanted to go.
[i] Yes, ok, so you could choose to where to flee? The appointment with people smuggler….
[r] No.
[i] Meeting with people smuggler…?
[r] The place I had asked then and he said ‘I do have room for that place’ and then I said I wanted to go to Belgium. Exactly that place I want to go.
[i] Initially you could land….
[r] Then I left for Belgium. Then I had decided for myself because I found in Belgium. That Belgium was a better place and the place I was going to. I believed the place where I would end up that I could live well there. It was exactly how I had predicted.
[i] So, what image did you have of Belgium then?
[r] I didn’t have a clear picture then but I believed it was a peace country and that you could live better and peace life here.
[i] For you it was important that you could live in peace?
[r] Right.
[i] That was the most important thing?
[r] Right.
[i] You had no other information?
[r] Peace and better life, that’s most important.
[i] How was it talked about in your home country about Europe?
[r] We are always in touch. Over the phone.
[i] No, I mean the people in your home country what were the conversations about Europe about or what image did they have? Or what stories did you hear when you were there and…?
[r] That there was peace and better life. Those were the two most important things for me and I found them.
[i] It was said that in Europe there was a better and peace life?
[r] Better.
[i] Did exist..were other things said as well?
[r] A lot of other things were said. But for me those two were important.
[i] What were the other side issues that were told?
[r] Walahi. Those things and others but which I didn’t name but . for me, those were the most important. Speaking about my own interests.
[i] Uhum, ok, The route you had taken during your flight. You had mentioned that you were going from Somalia and then to Nairobi. Can you repeat again which routes you had taken?
[r] Yes, I left from Somalia, Mogadishu and got to Kenya, in the capital of Kenya, Nairobi and from there I travelled by bus. Firstly, I came by plane to Nairobi and from Nairobi I took a bus to Kampala, the capital of Uganda. I then left from Uganda to Rwanda the capital Kigali. From there I took a plane to Belgium and I arrived in Brussels.
[i] How long were you on the road?
[r] About 20 to 30 days.
[i] About one month?
[r] One month approximately. But I think more or less a month. I don’t know exactly.
[i] So, ok..and. And… were you bumped along the way?
[r] Have not been thwarted.
[i] So no one obstructed you?
[r] I was lucky and was not obstructed.
[i] And… did you keep in touch with your family or friends when you were on the road?
[r] No, not while I was on the road but on my arrival in Belgium I did have contact. Contact was re-established until today I am still in touch with them.
[i] What were your first impressions when you found yourself on the soil of Europe?
[r] What do you mean?
[i] What?
[r] How?
[i] What were your first impressions when you got off the plane in one of the European countries. I meant Europe, the country of Belgium.
[r] Ah yes, it was… I believed very strongly that I would have peace and a better life here and I got that.
[i] So…your first impressions were good?
[r] I was lol when I arrived and I was able to get what I was looking for.
[i] Okay, how were you taken care of in Europe? What did you go for to be taken care of?
[r] I had been lucky.
[i] Who did you go to?
[r] I had applied for asylum in the airport and told them I was a refugee and was helped immediately. My procedure had started and in the airport then… then it was decided either I got a residence document or I was sent back. They decided that I got a residence document and decided that I could stay in the country and live here till now.
[i] Ok hm, so when you arrived and got off the plane you applied for asylum right then? Then you were brought to…
[r] In the airport.
[i] In the airport?
[r] At check-in, I was stopped and I had told them honestly that I was a refugee. From then on, my procedure started. They got me within 16 days, I got recognition and then I was released. I found a place where I could live. I went to live in a house. I got in touch with people who lived here. I got the contact details of my relatives. Those people welcomed me well and they started looking for a place to live with me. Then I rented house and I could start a new life. I am still living the same life a peaceful life, and good life.
[i] So you were not transferred to an asylum centre?
[r] I spent about 26 days in an asylum centre.
[i] Ok, the asylum centre…
[r] At the airport, you had two choices there or you got recognised as a refugee or you were refused. And you had to go back to the country of origin. Or you had to leave the country within five days if you enter via plane. I was then given a residence document to live here, papers. Papers to be able to live and live in the country.
[i] Ok, how was the contact with the authorities?
[r] I was interviewed and the conclusion was that I would get a residence document.
[i] Ok…. and…that’s where your trip to Belgium actually ended?
[r] Right, right.
[i] Could you tell us how were your first months in Belgium?
[r] Walahi. The first months of my stay in Belgium were, hm, there’s not much difference between then and now. Difference. What I experienced was that this country treated me in a way that was good and respectful, treated me and I keep insisting that I give back the same, the respectful and good treatment. And that I also live my own life.
[i] When you arrived here did you immediately get residence document?
[r] Right.
[i] And… you were recognised as a refugee and the whole procedure was short, if I understood correctly?
[r] Right.
[i] About a month it took.
[r] A little over 10 days.
[i] A little over 10 days the procedure lasted and then you were assigned housing?
[r] Yes.
[i] Okay, after that you started looking for your parents’ contact details?
[r] Right, right.
[i] How did you find it?
[r] I found them right away. I had their numbers with me and our contact continued. It worked out well. I have good contact with my parents, brothers, sisters and all other family members.
[i] You found the help you were looking for. How have you been able to build your life in Belgium?
[r] I lead a normal life like other people.
[i] Was a lot expected of you in terms of adapting in society, was it easy or difficult to adapt to this culture?
[r] I didn’t face many difficulties, I was able to get along well in society. Speaking about myself. Everyone is not the same but where I came to now is Antwerp in Belgium. So far I still live in Antwerp, only I lived in other city for about a year about that but the rest I lived in Antwerp.
[i] Do you speak any other languages?
[r] I speak Dutch, English and Somali.
[i] And English as well. So when you got to.
[r] And I also know a little French.
[i] So when you arrived, you spoke English with the authorities so you could get there….
[r] Yes.
[i] So that you understood what was said?
[r] Right, yes.
[i] It didn’t take much effort to adjust to this country?
[r] It was very easy to adjust.
[i] It went very smoothly. What do you think it would be due to?
[r] The language I knew helped me. It helped me.
[i] What are you doing at the moment?
[r] At the moment … I am improving myself in singing. Secondly, I am also trying to live a good life. I am not working at the moment, but will start working soon in September. I plan to work and InshaAllah I will start. I want to focus on finding a job. A regular everyday job. Everyone is so….Life consists of working and I would like to work too.
[i]And, where do you live?
[r] I live in Antwerp
[i] Which neighbourhood?
[r] In Ekeren, Antwerp 2020.
[i] How is the contact with your neighbours?
[r] We show understanding for each other but we have distant contact but… I have adapted to this culture of the country.
[i] Do you feel welcomed or not?
[r] I feel welcomed and otherwise I haven’t experienced any disagreements.
[i] So, who are your neighbours?
[r] White, black or other. Arabs and black.
[i] And, I assume you have met a lot of people?
[r] Right.
[i] And, what does your circle of friends look like now? And… Are those people who were born here or does your circle of friends still include Somali people or have you met other nationalities?
[r] It’s a mixed circle of friends. I always try to connect with other people.
[i] Are you a member of any association in this country?
[r] No.
[i] Do you get enough opportunities in Belgium?
[r] My future perspective is to apply namely in the singing part one day in Dutch or English. Those are opportunities that I very much want to see fulfilled. I tell myself that one day I will achieve them and certainly the level. At the moment, I am quite busy with that. But I would like to go even higher.
[i] Do you mean you want to master those languages well?
[r] No, on the artistic level.
[i] Ok, that in that area….
[r] That I am at a better level.
[i] Do you mean the language? That you start singing in English?
[r] And also in Dutch.
[i] Ok. Now I understand.
[r] I speak the two languages but I want to make my known in that way as with the Somali community.
[i] Do you experience discrimination?
[r] No, no.
[i] Have you faced any xenophobia or racism? Racism.
[r] Anything can happen but at the moment I can’t remember if I have faced that.
[i] Do you think you have faced that?
[r] Maybe but I don’t remember.
[i] You don’t remember?
[r] Not seen or not experienced it could be both.
[i] Um…so…the contact between you and your family and your friends have been restored.
[r] Right, yes.
[i] Are you also in touch with the Somali community here?
[r] Yes, very well.
[i] And…in what way do you have contact?
[r] In a brotherhood way and as compatriots. And before that… I have strong contact with the singers of the community
[i] And…are you still experiencing the culture of your homeland?
[r] Yes, very well in fact.
[i] In what way?
[r] I participate in the certain events and…. and. when the associations organise activities I also take part in don’t make any and take. I get invited there by the people in a very respectful and honourable way and take part in that.
[i] Do you keep certain traditions or festivals?
[r] Right.
[i] You take part in those as well.
[r] Which traditions are kept in honour and on which days do they take place? Walahi..that. and..weddings and other festive happenings. I have participated in a lot of traditional celebrations. At the moment, I cannot record that it was different. I have had good experiences.
[i] In what way has everything you have already experienced shaped you, made you the person you are today?
[r] Walahi at… the moment I am very happy, when I talk about my singing career it has changed and gone on another level. This makes me feel that I have come to a good place, and now I am at par with the other artists. That was my highlight. I had dreams all my life but one of those dreams has come true now.
[i] And… everything you made, the war in Somalia, when the bullet came in your leg in what way did that change you?
[r] It was a very long time ago and now I wish for peace to come to our country. That’s all I can say now.
[i] What values do you want to pass on and…. I forgot to ask you do you have children?
[r] Yes, I have a daughter. May Allah grant her long and blessed life. Her name is and… her mother gave her the name [name] and I gave her the name [name]. She has been given both names. She is now 17 years old. During my arrival here, she was born.
[i] Okay. You have a daughter and where does she live now?
[r] She lives in Somalia. In Buloburde.
[i] OK, are you married?
[r] No, am not married at the moment.
[i] Do you sometimes feel homesick?
[r] Very much so… I love my country and would like to visit and as soon as possible, inshaAllah.
[i] Okay…and…do you want to stay in Belgium or move on?
[r] I want to stay in Belgium and also in my country and to achieve that the contact circulate must be done. By that I mean I will visit my country and I will stay in Belgium.
[i] You say you want to continue to live here and visit your home country on your own? Hope you.
[r] I want to strengthen contact with my own country.
[i] Do you hope to return to your home country one day?
[r] Very much so..very much so. But in the country is not vellig enough but I hope to return.
[i] Anything else you want to say or add to this interview?
[r] No, this was all I wanted to share with you personally.
[i] I want to thank you for this. and thank you again for allowing us to record the interview and also for your time. It’s gladly done, sister.