SU_T_48

[i] Peace be upon you, brother [name].
[r] Peace be upon you, too.
[i] How are you?
[r] I’m fine, thank God.
[i] Welcome.
[r] Thank you.
[i] Can you tell us who you are, where you’re from, and how long you’ve been living in Italy?
[r] I’m [name], I’m from Al-Naba. I came to Italy in September 2018. The date is December 10. I came to Italy in January. We were 15 Algerians. We came in, they kissed us, took pictures of us, and gave us a bag of paper. We didn’t sleep, not even for a night. We didn’t have a job. The night before, they brought us a taxi to Rono. They took us to Rono. They put us in the bus. They put us in Roma. We slept in Roma.
[i] And you, brother [name], you came here by sea?
[r] Yes, by sea.
[i] Why did you choose this way?
[r] Because I had no job. I had no money. I brought my passport. I went to the sea every day. I brought my passport every day. I went to the sea every day. If I wanted to take pictures, I went.
[i] How long did you stay in the sea?
[r] Three days by sea. We went to the sea for 400 meters. We turned off the GPS at night. If we made a mistake, we would have stayed at the port. The port that we saw. They told us to come to the island. Then we would have stayed at the port. We would have stayed there for three days. Then we would go back to the port. We would sleep by the port. We would have stayed there for three days.
[i] How old were you when you arrived to the island?
[r] Fifteen.
[i] Did you have women with you?
[r] No, all of them were men.
[i] When did you arrive to Sardinia? What did you feel when you arrived?
[r] We got off the boat. It was hard for me to walk. I couldn’t walk. We had a lot of food, but we didn’t have enough to eat. When we got to their house, they took us to their house. They took us to a place called Central. They took us there and gave us food. They gave us food from their restaurant. Then they took us to a place called Bassmouna. Bassmouna is on that island. We didn’t have enough to eat. They took us to a place called Lavoyager. They took us to Lavoyager. We got on a plane to Lavoyager. We landed in Rome. We were in Rome.
[i] Did they put you in Rome? Did they put you in a center?
[r] No, no. They took us to a place called Balagladish.
[i] Balagladish?
[r] Yes. They took us there and took us to Rome. We didn’t know where to go.
[i] You didn’t know where to go?
[r] We didn’t have money. We didn’t have money.
[i] How did you live during those days?
[r] I didn’t stay long with my friend. We were 15. I told you how we lived. I had an Algerian friend. We went to Morocco. He went to another country. We went to Genova. We went to Genova. From Genova, we went to Ventimiglia. From Ventimiglia, we went to Nice.
[i] What did you do when you arrived in Nice?
[r] There were Moroccans living in Marseille. We went with them. We didn’t have money. He was married. We stayed with him for a month in Marseille. We ate at his place. He helped us.
[i] He helped you?
[r] Yes, he helped us. We didn’t have money. They left us in Milos. They took us by taxi. I was alone. They asked me where I was going. I told them I was going to Paris. They took me to a fraudster. He knew me for 10 years. He took me to a Moroccan fraudster who worked in Paris. He told me he had a friend who worked in Paris. He took me to the fraudster. I arrived in Paris. I was in the police headquarter. The police carried me out. Then the police took me to the car. They asked for my papers. I did not have them. They put me in the car. They took me to the police station. They took me to the police station in Paris. They called me. They asked me to stand there. I stood there. They told me to go alone. I ran outside. So I went to the barbershop and asked them where they could sell the cigarettes. I asked them and they told me that the cigarettes cost 2 euros, 5 euros and 6 euros. They told me that they would help me for 20 days and I would be with them. I told them that I don’t have a job and that I live in Paris.
[i] Where were you during this period of time?
[r] In France?
[i] Yes, I was in France and I was with a group of Algerians. They took me to their house. They told me that they couldn’t sell cigarettes because they were Algerians and they lived abroad.
[i] You couldn’t sell cigarettes?
[r] No, I couldn’t sell cigarettes because it was cold. I was with them for 6 or 7 days. They took me to a street and I didn’t know what it was. They didn’t know how to get out of the house and they took me to a barbershop. They took me to a street and they told me that there was a barbershop in the south of the city. They took me to the barbershop and I stayed there. I stayed there for an hour and a half. They took me to a beach and I told them that I was from Belgium. They took me to a taxi and I was in Belgium. I was in Belgium for 6 days and they took me to the police station.
[i] They took you to the police station?
[r] Yes, they took me to the police station. They took me to the airport. They took me to the airport and I stayed there for 5 days. I came out of the police station and they put me in jail. I didn’t know the way to Belgium so I didn’t go to jail. I was in Belgium for 6 days. They gave me a list of French cities and I asked them what I should do. They said that there’s a place in the city with good light. I told him that I will go to Tunisia, he told me that he is from Algeria and I don’t know how he knows me. I told him that I don’t know him, he told me that he is from Algeria and I don’t know him.
[i] You didn’t talk to him and he told you that he is from Algeria?
[r] I told him that he is from Algeria and I don’t know him. He told me that he is from Germany and I told him that I am from Holland and he told me that he is from Germany. In the station I found the train to Holland and the one for Germany was 7 minutes late. With no documents or money I got on the train, sat down and in front of me was an Algerian lady but I didn’t know it. The train left after a while, the ticket inspector passed by He asked me for my ticket, I told him I didn’t have one. He asked for my documents, I said I didn’t have any. He said to me, ‘Can I have something to identify you?’ I said, ‘OK’ and I pulled out the paper they gave me in Belgium. She said they gave you 5 days, you have 2 more to go. I said there are 2 days left, if they catch me they’ll send me to prison. The lady replied by telling me that I can also stay for 10 years, they won’t tell me anything as long as I behave.
[r] After we spoke I discovered that she was Arab, I asked her where she was from and she said Algeria. I also told her I’m Algerian, and she told me that she is going to visit her two children who live in Holland and that she lives in Belgium. He told me that the conductor wouldn’t make me get off, and that’s what happened. After a while the conductor came back and asked me where I wanted to get off in Holland. I told him where the train would stop and that’s where I’d get off.
[i] Since you don’t know where to go for you, wherever I take you is fine?
[r] Indeed. The train didn’t go to the centre of Amsterdam but it stops nearby. I got off, met a lady and asked her where the train to Amsterdam was. She said this was it. I got on and fell asleep until I found myself in Amsterdam I got off. I wandered and wandered in the end I couldn’t find a place to sleep and I fell asleep near the Amsterdam train station. Some policemen were walking around checking things out. At a certain point a policeman came up to me and told me that I had been watching you for a long time. He spoke to me in Dutch and I spoke to him in a little French. He called his colleague and asked him if he spoke French, and he said yes. He spoke to me and I told him kindergarten. He pulled out a piece of paper and a pen and wrote down the address of a and also wrote down another one in case I couldn’t find the first one. I went there and found many Algerians and Moroccans, the manager told me it was full.
[i] There was no room?
[r] Yes, I told him the police sent me and he said I can’t do anything to you except send you to another centre. He wrote down the address for me, I went and asked people until I arrived. The Dutchman helps you, he feeds you everything but he doesn’t let you sleep. I said okay, I’ll eat and sleep outside. I carried on like this, and one day I went back to the guy who told me there were no places available again and that you have to find me where I’m going. He said I’ll send you to another centre, if he’s going to designate a map, I thought he’d find one nearby. I set off to look for the address, I went all over the city and got lost. I met 2 Dutch guys, I asked them where the address was and they told me it was far away and that I had to take either the train or the bus.
[i] Another city?
[r] Yes, another city, the two guys said to me, ‘Come, we’ll take you’ and they took me to the door of the city centre. I arrived, rang the bell and a Pakistani man opened the door and told me to come back tomorrow. I told him I had nowhere to sleep, there was a small garden and I slept there. There were Africans there, almost 30 people. In the morning I went back and the person in charge was a Lebanese woman She said to me, ‘I know you slept outside, I’ll bring you a coffee.’ She made me another map and sent me to another centre because that one was full. I asked him where I could go, he told me I had to go back to the station and that I had to go back the way I came, a 3-hour drive On my way back I sprained my ankle so I was limping and walking with difficulty. I couldn’t bear the pain any longer, I saw a bus and asked if it went to Amsterdam, he told me not to take it but to get the bus behind it. I took the bus without a ticket and it took me to the train station. I took the train and after 2 hours the conductor came by he asked me for my ticket and I said I didn’t have one. He told me that as soon as the train stops I have to get off, I told him that I hurt my ankle he told me he didn’t care I have to get off. Otherwise I’ll bring the police to you, in fact if the train has stopped and I got off. As soon as I got off there was a Dutchman sitting there he understood my situation and gave me 10 euros. That train left, I met another person and I asked him where this place was. He told me to go to the opposite side of the one I got off at. And that I have to change trains until I reach my destination.
[i] And in the end did you get to that place?
[r] Yes, after the guy told me I had to go to the other side I went and there I found a ticket thrown away I picked it up and got on the train. Then the ticket inspector arrived, I gave him the ticket, he said ok, and with that ticket I went all the way to the centre.
[i] And when you arrived at the centre, was there a place or was it also full?
[r] I found a place, in fact I stayed there for almost 2 months, there were Moroccans Algerians, then they interviewed us, then they transferred us.
[i] And how did you get back to Italy afterwards?
[r] I didn’t stay there the whole time but I was transferred to another centre in Rotterdam where I stayed for 4 months. After that they had taken the fingerprints I had done in Italy and they told me I have to go back to Italy.
[i] Basically, where should I go back to the first country who welcomed you and took your fingerprints?
[r] Yes, and not just me but many others were sent back to Germany, Sweden, Spain. And the plane only left at night, around one o’clock they told you to get your things and put you on the plane.
[i] And when you arrived in Turin what did you do?
[r] I didn’t know Turin. The Dutch sent my file with the pilot of the plane and he handed it over to the Turin police who took my fingerprints and made me a document. Then I asked a policeman what the city was called and he said Turin. I asked the policeman for a cigarette because I hadn’t smoked yet, he told me to go outside to smoke. We smoked and then he took my fingerprints and gave me a bus ticket to go to the court. They gave me the paper and then I went to look for the place and asked the driver but he didn’t know. A lady told me I’ll tell you, I showed her the address and she told me it’s behind this building. I went and they told me to come back tomorrow. I slept there for 20 days because every time I go they tell me tomorrow. In the end I went and found a Moroccan lady who made a form for me and sent me to an office where they do the paperwork. I went and there were a lot of people there. They asked me where I was, I told them I hadn’t slept in 20 days. The lady who worked there was talking to me and I fell asleep, she wrote down my details. And then he told me to go to the reception centre in Settimo Torinese, and on the day of the appointment they will take you to do the paperwork. And he told me to bring some photos, I brought them and they did the paperwork for me.
[i] [name] in the midst of all that chaos and thinking about your dreams, how did you feel?
[r] I didn’t feel anything because I was lost, I slept in the middle of the road, I ate badly, I saw my life as lost.
[i] What job did you do in Algeria?
[r] I worked in the field of building construction, masonry.
[i] You were a bricklayer?
[r] Yes.
[i] So you have a job and you don’t have a problem working?
[r] If I found a job I wouldn’t say no. Of course I work, I came here on purpose, so I can improve my life and earn money to get rid of the kidney stones.
[i] You told me you were unwell.
[r] My kidneys.
[i] But do you still want to work?
[r] Yes.
[i] And in this period have you managed to achieve anything?
[r] Nothing. Yesterday I was with a fellow countryman of mine told me that there are no jobs in Turin. And it’s not just me saying it, others have told me the same thing.
[i] It’s tough for newcomers.
[r] Yesterday a Moroccan man told me that he hadn’t worked for nine months.
[i] And during this time have you managed to make friends to integrate a little into this society and learn the language?
[r] I speak a little Italian, I go to buy cigarettes I go to the bar and I try to communicate with people. And when I get stuck I speak French with those who can understand me.
[i] Is it important for you to interact with people?
[r] Yes.
[i] [name] thank you for this interview and for sharing your story with us. I hope you can overcome this difficulty and realise all your dreams that you had when you decided to risk your life to come to Italy.
[r] I hope so.